Usama Bin Laden DEAD!

[Six]

@Calico,

You are taking what I said WAY too seriously. Just because I worded people as 'weirdos' does not mean I'm actually serious with the term. So please, it is just my opinion.

I never said what has happened WAS the same, KILLING is the same. Whether it's good or not, it's still killing, who are WE to judge if it's right or 'called for'?

For how it's coming over, and to clear things up, I'm NOT defending Al-Qaida in ANY WAY, SHAPE or FORM. So please, mark those words.

The way I see the situation as the same, at THIS MOMENT - people are celebrating a death. Yes, just like Cody said. They are, because he's dead, one threat less. Or so people assume. Celebrating that simple fact, for me, personally, is sickening, you can't judge on that, as it's an opinion of mine.

Because he was a soulless creature from the deepest parts of hell. He lost any human rights the moment he felt he had the right to massively kill and wound thousands of innocent people all across the world solely because they were not Islamic.

That's your opinion. Saying he lost any human rights, or thinking that doesn't make anyone a better person, quite simple because you are not the judge of that. What he did was definitely messed up, and bizarre, and I wholeheartedly agree with that, however, I'm NOT the judge of his human rights. He was human, just like we all are, and these are all emotions, I can definitely understand.

But I stand by what I said. Celebrating someone's death, is sickening, and YES, people are doing that. I'm not pointing fingers, so don't feel offended, or take offence to it if it's you that's celebrating he got blown to smithereens.

As I've said before, being thankful justice has been served for those who lost their lives, or those who lived and lost their loved ones, okay, but celebrating a death. No.

But to clear things up, because out of nowhere what I've said people are portraying as 'bad' or making it look like that, these are my opinions. I certainly do NOT agree with what Osama OR his group did, or stood for, AT ALL. Just because what I type, or the way I type is misunderstood is something I can't apologize on my own for, because it's how the reader takes it as well.

Then again, I'm not gonna further reason out my opinion, simply because I do not care for debates, and because I do not disagree with what most of you guys say, I just am against the whole celebrating.

So please, if not agree, just respect the simple fact it's my humble opinion.

---

@Terra Branford

It's not demonizing, it's our different opinions clashing here. No one's asking any of us to agree, but simply give each other freedom of speech without getting all worked up over it, guys.

It's unneeded, it'll get the thread closed, and to be fair, it's pointless.

 

[Terra Branford]

And your demonizing me. I said none of those things that you just accused me of saying. Just because you don't agree with me does not give you the right to twist my words, or toss me in with the people who are saying what you just made it seem I was. I never suggested that we were the same as the terrorists who cheered as the Towers feel. NEVER.

But just because we aren't AS WRONG doesn't make us right. It's childish to even suggest that. We aren't right for celebrating the death of a human being in the way we are. We aren't HANDLING this the right way. We are not being admirable people. I do not look at the cheering crowds and think "Wow, there are the people I will model my behavior after", but that doesn't mean I look and go "Wow, they are as bad as terrorists."

This isn't about making it black and white. We live in a grey world. You can't just shift us into two groups.

I demonize nothing or anyone. You and a few other members, have been comparing the two cheering groups to each. Unless the connections errors I am getting to this site has seriously messed up the quoting system here, your posts have said they are no better than those who cheered for the death of innocents that the terrorists caused.

That's just it. Who are you to say the death of a terrorist is wrong? You push what you feel on the people of America and what they went through and go as far as saying they shouldn't celebrate, which they aren't doing, the man who has caused so much death. You say they cannot celebrate the end of his terror.

If that is so, do you feel as if the Jews shouldn't have celebrated Hitlers death? Because this man went around killing people of groups of religion and or race.

It's unneeded, it'll get the thread closed, and to be fair, it's pointless.

Why would the thread get closed for discussion? Its not like we are insulting each other or anything.

edit;
you're right. It is pointless. So I'll just take my leave >.>

 

[Six]

I wouldn't know if it would get closed, but the way things are going, telling each other the other is demonizing?

That's just it. Who are you to say the death of a terrorist is wrong? You push what you feel on the people of America and what they went through and go as far as saying they shouldn't celebrate, which they aren't doing, the man who has caused so much death. You say they cannot celebrate the end of his terror.

But honestly, Terra, who are you to say it's not what a lot of people are doing in the USA? Because, first of all, people who didn't lose anyone in the 9/11 incident, are celebrating, they don't have the right to, is what I'd say, but then again, who am I? I think that, we, or in any way, me personally, can only imagine how the people feel that lost loved ones on that day, but that DOES NOT make it right, to celebrate death.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

I demonize nothing or anyone. You and a few other members, have been comparing the two cheering groups to each. Unless the connections errors I am getting to this site has seriously messed up the quoting system here, your posts have said they are no better than those who cheered for the death of innocents that the terrorists caused.

That's just it. Who are you to say the death of a terrorist is wrong? You push what you feel on the people of America and what they went through and go as far as saying they shouldn't celebrate, which they aren't doing, the man who has caused so much death. You say they cannot celebrate the end of his terror.

If that is so, do you feel as if the Jews shouldn't have celebrated Hitlers death? Because this man went around killing people of groups of religion and or race.

Why would the thread get closed for discussion? Its not like we are insulting each other or anything >.>

I have never said that.

NEVER.

NOT ONCE.

I said that we should not be celebrating. I DID NOT SAY WE ARE THE SAME AS THEY WERE! To even suggest that I did, offends me very deeply, and is almost the same as flinging personal insults at me.

On the second part, you're oversimplifying what I've said . It isn't a discussion if you aren't actually reading what's said. You're just looking for what you want it to say.

In no way have my posts ever said that. THEY HAVE SAID THAT WE ARE NOT RIGHT TO DO IT! Maybe if I capitalize you'll bother to actually read it. It's not a matter of black and white. It's a matter of degree. Are we Americans not capable of such subtlety anymore?

And who are you to force your opinion on us? And then try to make us say things we haven't? I am an American, I have freedom to think and say what I will as long as it isn't harmful to others, as do you. Just because YOU OR ANYONE ELSE might like what I they say doesn't make it anymore right or wrong. Because none of us are right or wrong. THIS IS ALL OPINION.

And I am saying that Osama did not do that to AMERICA! READ!

Did this really just get brought up? Hitler and Osama are not comparable in the least. Osama did not seize control of America, and then try to exterminate entire groups of people. It's not a comparison. America was not oppressed by Osama. We were ATTACKED by him. I don't know about you but I wasn't living in my neighbor's FUCKING ATTIC for the past 10 years.

I SAID AMERICA. If the people he did that to want to celebrate, more power to them. We aren't those people. We weren't living under this constant fear you fabricate. Most people hadn't thought of him in months if not for years until yesterday. I didn't come home from school everyday and go, "Mom, did that get Osama today?" I hardly doubt anyone did.

We weren't living in constant terror.

 

[Terra Branford]

*First of all, Hitler and Osama killed people because they are different. Just because he didn't control America doesn't mean they are different in their ways. Lastly I am ignoring your post and any future posts Ayumi Hamasaki. I hate it when people post in caps. It just looks hideous, hard to read and looks as if you are losing your temper :/*

I wouldn't know if it would get closed, but the way things are going, telling each other the other is demonizing?
[/COLOR][/FONT]
But honestly, Terra, who are you to say it's not what a lot of people are doing in the USA? Because, first of all, people who didn't lose anyone in the 9/11 incident, are celebrating, they don't have the right to, is what I'd say, but then again, who am I? I think that, we, or in any way, me personally, can only imagine how the people feel that lost loved ones on that day, but that DOES NOT make it right, to celebrate death.

Who are you (not you in general of course) to sit here and assume they are celebrating the death of him? Have you heard anyone say it besides "I'm happy its all over and he's gone". Being happy someone as evil as he was is gone is not wrong in the slightest.

And as I said before, attacking 4000 people in a Tower innocently working is attacking America in whole. Are you saying I can't feel angry toward the terrorists or happy that he can no longer harm someone, because someone I knew and loved didn't die? We don't have the right to celebrate? How did you ever come to that conclusion? We as citizens of America share the same pain, maybe not to the exact pain, the victims of 9'11 feel. >.>

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

*I am ignoring your post Ayumi Hamasaki. I hate it when people post in caps. It just looks hideous, hard to read and looks as if you are losing your temper :/*

Who are you (not you in general of course) to sit here and assume they are celebrating the death of him? Have you heard anyone say it besides "I'm happy its all over and he's gone". Being happy someone as evil as he was is gone is not wrong in the slightest.

And as I said before, attacking 4000 people in a Tower innocently working is attacking America in whole. Are you saying I can't feel angry toward the terrorists or happy that he can no longer harm someone, because someone I knew and loved didn't die? We don't have the right to celebrate? How did you ever come to that conclusion? We as citizens of America share the same pain, maybe not to the exact pain, the victims of 9'11 feel. >.>

Evil is subjective. Evil to you isn't evil to another person. Surely that doesn't need to be explained here. On that subject who are you to say that we are wrong to say it's not right?

I don't remember who died and made you my moral compass, but I must have blacked out that day.

I am a citizen of America. How many times do I have to say that before someone reads it? You don't share their pain. Unless you lost someone you don't know how it is. You don't even share a fraction of the pain.

That's like me saying that because someone in America died of cancer and I saw it on TV, I have not experienced the pain of dealing with losing someone to cancer.

And by all means, ignore my posts. You haven't been reading them anyway if that's what you got from them.

 

[Six]

Yes, I have actually Terra. People on the news, when they were asked how they felt, saying things like 'I'm happy the 's.o.b.' is dead', this is where my opinion comes from. Dancing around like retards, while he was just a SMALL link of the chain there is left. And it's pathetic and sad that they underestimate who they are dealing with.

I'm not just saying these things while assuming. How can you, yourself, speak for so many people in America, saying they are not celebrating a death? Whether or not it's Osama's is besides the point I'm trying to make here.

 

[Harlequin]

Just a comment on this. What has al-Qaida done since 9/11? Anything?

They're alleged to have assumed responsibility for the terrorist attacks in Madrid and London since 9/11 but there's no doubt with the world fully aware of their brand of international terror that another 9/11 wasn't about to happen without serious complacency from the targeted country's seurity forces. Regardless, al-Qaeda didn't need another 9/11. As Osama said in 2001 militant Islamists had awakened to this particularly henious brand of ideology and they've been waging a international guerrila war ever since bombing embassies and government buildings the world over whilst also inciting terrorism and influencing the youth. There's little doubt that al-Qaeda were and indeed still are a huge threat to the West.

As for their future operations, the martyrdom of Osama will almost certainly - and quite worryingly - inspire another to step into the gap.

July 7, 2005 London transport bombings - 56 dead 700 injured

I was on the Underground when it happened would you believe what an eventful day that was.

But instead, he took his wife and used her as a shield just so he could live to kill others.

I think now we're starting to blur the lines between reality and propaganda. If he was the coward the media is portraying him to be it would be difficult to imagine him standing up to the USSR invasion and the USA's policy in the Middle East. Doesn't add up to me, but I suppose you could be right - it's a possibility nonetheless that he would use his wife as a shield.

He was no man... He was a beast and I feel no sympathy.

I don't feel anyone is inherently evil. I believe what he did was evil, but I feel evil comes from a misunderstanding rather than as part of someone's character. We're all God's children in the end

I celebrate the victory, but I lament the loss of life.

 

[CassinoChips]

October 2002 Bali bombings - 202 killed and 240 injured
November 2003 Istanbul attacks - 57 dead 700 injured
February 2004 SuperFerry 14 bombing - 116 people dead
March 11, 2004 Madrid train bombings -
May 2004 Khobar massacre
July 7, 2005 London transport bombings - 56 dead 700 injured
July 23, 2005 Sharm el-Sheikh attacks -
November 9, 2005 Amman hotel bombing - 60 people dead hundreds wounded
11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings - 209 lost lives and 700 injured
April 2007 Algiers bombings - claimed 33 people
February 2008 Kandahar bombing
June 2, 2008 Danish-embassy bombing - 6 killed
June 2009 Little Rock recruiting office shooting - one killed
December 2009 Northwest Airlines Flight 253
October 2010 cargo plane bomb plot
(plus the countless dozens upon dozens of people killed in Iraq by this same group)

That's 993 lost lives. That's a lot of lost lives, wouldn't you agree? If you don't remember those, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Links to al-Qaida, and whack jobs claiming they're from al-Qaida, is not the same thing as carried out by al-Qaida. Although a couple of those were, you're correct. But, like I said, nowhere near the scale of 9/11. 10 years worth, and it's not even 1/3 of the death toll on 9/11.

I personally think that is rather shallow. Even if the planning of 9/11 took them years, it was devastating enough. How long it takes shouldn't matter, the safety of people should.

As I said, you shouldn't underestimate someone just because their leader has been killed, just like any other organization they probably have back up plans, Al-Qaida isn't something that should be taken lightly just because they failed an attempt, 'just' because 9/11 took them years of planning and training or 'just' because Osama is 'supposedly' dead.

And counting on the fact that it 'probably won't be 20 years or so' from now, is being rather optimistic, I think. With all due respect, of course you might be right, but I just wouldn't turn a blind eye to the fact that they might have a whole plan mapped out, for 'WHEN' this would happen. =/

Just my opinion.

I think you missed my point. Or I didn't explain it very well. As much planning as it took to carry out an attack on the scale of 9/11, I don't see them being able to replicate it, especially with as many of their higher-ups as the US has taken out in the last 10 years. So I don't agree with the whole "al-Qaida will use this as a rallying cry" argument, increasing terrorism, etc. I don't think they'll have the means. And from what I understand, most other Islamist groups didn't actually like bin Laden all that much. So I doubt his death would mean all that much.

And on that note...

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not praising America for this either. Congratulations weirdos, you just did the same thing Al-Qaida did, but to a 'bad' person, that doesn't make you any better. I understand these two are at war, but really? So Osama was hated for what he did, because he took the life of innocents away, but America was determined to take his, and that is right why? Because he was a bad person? =/ Yes, he definitely was, but you can't say he was wrong, if you're killing as well.

Generally, I'm against the death penalty for most of the reasons you hinted at. Saying "you can't kill people, and to prove this, we're going to kill you back." That's hypocrisy. And although I agree that people who are celebrating this are being wildly inappropriate, I will admit to feeling a certain sense of satisfaction. Frankly, he got no less than what he deserved. I'm not a soldier, I've never fired a gun at another human being. But I couldn't promise you, given the opportunity, that I wouldn't have squeezed off a round right between his eyes.

bin Laden orchestrated an attack that was essentially guerrilla warfare, engaging the U.S. in battle. War has different rules. He became an enemy combatant the minute that attack took place.

 

[Saints&Storms]

An example of what exactly? Our inadequacy? It took us almost a decade to finally capture him. It's not like he did something yesterday, and we caught him. Then perhaps I could understand that line of thought.

You say it like finding one person of who knows how many; is simple, when its comparable to trying to find a needle in a haystack...a very large haystack...that has the Pakistani government hiding it.

Doesn't matter how long it took; we still got him. And we never stopped looking.

He is an example of; not to fuck with America.

However, his killing and martyrdom will undoubtedly inspire a new generation of ambitious radicals ready to step into the void and inherit his global profile. That is the problem we're now facing.

I can't see how; I honestly don't see him sending others off to fly planes and detonate bombs for him as making him a martyr when he was simply double tapped after being found in a house in Pakistan.

And well, yeah we can never really discourage all Radicals. But this didn't hurt the effort.

You are taking what I said WAY too seriously. Just because I worded people as 'weirdos' does not mean I'm actually serious with the term. So please, it is just my opinion.

I never said what has happened WAS the same, KILLING is the same. Whether it's good or not, it's still killing, who are WE to judge if it's right or 'called for'?

I don't see how I or Cali can take our brothers being called weirdo's too seriously. When a murderer is offered a chance to life or death and would rather choose cowardice to hide behind others than face their crime; then it can NEVER be compared to orchestrating one of the most hideous massacres.

You act as though the SEALs stomped in and gunned him down on contact; when he was offered a choice.

What would you do were you to be watching someone kill or hurt someone you loved? Would you be thinking you have NO right to defend your loved one based on the fact that "who's to say whats right or wrong"?

Its a divine right to defend yourself;And Osama did more than enough to prove he wasn't going to leave America alone.

 

[Harlequin]

I can't see how; I honestly don't see him sending others off to fly planes and detonate bombs for him as making him a martyr when he was simply double tapped after being found in a house in Pakistan.

Well it would seem that yes he hasn't actually carried out many of the acts that have been attributed to his leadership, but if that was simply the case he wouldn't be the most wanted man in the world. The fact of the matter is he was the most influential muslim radical in the world and I fear that his influence will grow even more so in death seeing as many will see this as an opportunity to take the mantle and 'achieve' what he has.

It's difficult to explain but I hope you see where I'm coming from.

And well, yeah we can never really discourage all Radicals. But this didn't hurt the effort.

I fully support the killing, however whether or not it will be beneficial remains to be seen.

Ironically, his killing is likely to inspire the same zeal and fervour in militant Islamists as it has in those who were chanting USA outside the White House. Not to mention that as Jesse had suggested al-Qaeda had fallen off the radar these past few years, this news is likely to inspire morbid fascination and admiration in ambitious radicals the world over.

But we'll just have to see. A backlash I fear is inevitable.

 

[Terra Branford]

I think now we're starting to blur the lines between reality and propaganda. If he was the coward the media is portraying him to be it would be difficult to imagine him standing up to the USSR invasion and the USA's policy in the Middle East. Doesn't add up to me, but I suppose you could be right - it's a possibility nonetheless that he would use his wife as a shield.

Oh, I meant his carriers (whatever they are called lol) used his wife as a shield. Sorry about that, I'm pretty tired.

He should have surrendered for the safety of his wife (one of them) alone, but instead he allowed his men to use her as a shield. I think its pretty safe to say he is a coward for the way he's done his terrorist actions (bombing, hiding etc). But then again, coward or no, he was evil >.>

I can't see how; I honestly don't see him sending others off to fly planes and detonate bombs for him as making him a martyr when he was simply double tapped after being found in a house in Pakistan.

And well, yeah we can never really discourage all Radicals. But this didn't hurt the effort.

Because one of the biggest things Usāmah taught his people was that dying in the name of Allah (that's what he taught! >.<) was the best thing to do. So if their leader died by the teachings he taught his people in the name of his god, then they will follow his example. They will replace him first with another rich, power hungry beast that will strike back harder (or just strike back).

Examples of this would be the replacements in Al-Qāʿidah or even the Somali terrorist groups.

But we'll just have to see. A backlash I fear is inevitable.

I think the same. Though I have no way of knowing how bad it will be, it will happen.

 

[Harlequin]

Sorry about that, I'm pretty tired.

Yeah tell me about it

He should have surrendered for the safety of his wife (one of them) alone, but instead he allowed his men to use her as a shield. I think its pretty safe to say he is a coward for the way he's done his terrorist actions (bombing, hiding etc). But then again, coward or no, he was evil >.>

I think he realised whether he surrendered or not death was all that awaited him. I mean in hindsight Saddam Hussein was given a trial we all knew would only end one way and a sentence we could all see coming. What would have happened to Osama? I'd wager torture for intel and then the death penalty.

I think the same. Though I have no way of knowing how bad it will be, it will happen.

It's practically inevitable someone somewhere will at the very least attempt something in revenge.

 

[Terra Branford]

A image leaked of Obama, Hilary and the like watching something with serious, scared faces. Maybe they are watching the thing go down?

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2011/05/03/1226048/978816-bin-laden-white-house.jpg

 

[Shu]

Here's how I look at it. As long as people have the ability to attain power via usage of Religious beliefs, there will always be evil in the world. No matter what you think this attained, I can tell you there are a lot of negative implications here. If this did occur, this means America violated Pakistan. I'm not saying we weren't right for taking this fella out, I'm just saying we didn't even mention it till we were out.

Think of it like this, imagine if on the US turf people were running black/spec ops missions in your back yard to kill (name a person), none of it was noted but they were of foreign decent. I'm talking about very well trained, and very well armed people. How comfortable would you feel about this nation as a whole?

We lost a lot of trust with this. This dude would of been better off tried, and then had the similar outcome. The problem is we acted first, then spoke second to Pakistan, and I know the reasons of course, but still doesn't make it right with foreign diplomacy. Now there is even more disbelief that this occurred. I mean it's hard to lie to an entire country that this actually did happen. Though it would be one hell of a cover-up if we never see the actual body.

At least with Saddam Hussein, he was tried and hung. It was public, and now.. it's this. Granted I'm sure many folks celebrated but days/weeks/months, let's see how we feel when politics does their spin.

I fear more now for our public safety than I have in a while. If other countries know America can do this in Pakistan, let's just see some more responses.

Osama Bin Laden deserved to die of course in my eyes, and I'm grateful if he's truly dead, but this has so much stink on it so far. It leaves so many questions, that will probably remained unanswered. Let's just hope those hard drives are real and intel they received.

Either way, the dude was a worthless pawn in my eyes. He was an image.. and most muslims detested the very sight of him anyway. Let's hope for the best, but I got this eerie feeling about this one.

 

[Harlequin]

A image leaked of Obama, Hilary and the like watching something with serious, scared faces. Maybe they are watching the thing go down?

They were supposedly watching the operation 'in real time'. At least that's the briefing our media's going by in the UK.

We lost a lot of trust with this. This dude would of been better off tried, and then had the similar outcome. The problem is we acted first, then spoke second to Pakistan, and I know the reasons of course, but still doesn't make it right with foreign diplomacy.

I think the operation has shamed Pakistan first and the US a distant second when it comes to trust and politics. It could well be that the US didn't trust Pakistan with the knowledge of the where abouts (providing you subscribe to the idea that Pakistan didn't know of the compound under their noses).

 

[Rey]

A image leaked of Obama, Hilary and the like watching something with serious, scared faces. Maybe they are watching the thing go down?

I saw this picture on the news before and just look at Hilary Clinton's reaction. I would say she looks really shocked for life. Lots of really scary and shocked faces. I think they are watching something that probably might not be leaked. But you never know.. someone will always find a way.

Also for the last reaction about fake pics.... It is not fake at all. I do not doubt Obama at all at this point. Everyone is talking about it and even asking questions if it will turn worse or bad for The Western World.

 

[Shu]

I think the operation has shamed Pakistan first and the US a distant second when it comes to trust and politics. It could well be that the US didn't trust Pakistan with the knowledge of the where abouts (providing you subscribe to the idea that Pakistan didn't know of the compound under their noses).

I think that's the only reason to be honest. Big picture is.. I'm waiting on actual proof like Saddam on this one. I might be skeptical but I have my good reasons this time. It sounds great, but I feel different. I have no family affected in 9/11 and I feel for the folks who lost anyone there.

Though I can say this, had this man been brought back and tried (even though it was said he resisted) just imagine the outcome. Even if he's shameless of his decisions and a mass murderer, the dude would be be less of a martyr in my opinion and more of an abomination.

To be in a world of strangers and maybe in a straight jacket where he couldn't kill himself. It would be much more of a punishment than killing that ass off. Screw torture, let his own mind be his own vise.

 

[Donald Trump]

They were supposedly watching the operation 'in real time'. At least that's the briefing our media's going by in the UK.

Or they could have been watching porn.

I'm very disappointed that everyone is repeating what I said and not repping me for it, very sad

There's been a lot of talk about him getting justice etc etc, which is completely wrong. You cannot have justice without a trial, America skipped the trial and went straight to execution. You can call it many things, but justice it isn't.
Killing him solves a lot of legal problems, there's no way he could have had a fair trial etc etc.

I also think people should calm down a little. Comparisons between America and the Jews and Hitler and Osama are ridiculous. There's been far too much sentimental pish too, osama is completely evil, without an ounce of humanity etc etc, stuff like that is just childish.

 

[Terra Branford]

They were supposedly watching the operation 'in real time'. At least that's the briefing our media's going by in the UK.

That's what I thought...for the sake of the protection of many peoples, I hope this is true and he is gone. I wouldn't put it pass Usāmah to find someone who looked like him to act as a bodyguard >.>

There's been a lot of talk about him getting justice etc etc, which is completely wrong. You cannot have justice without a trial, America skipped the trial and went straight to execution. You can call it many things, but justice it isn't.

The soldiers gave him many times to surrender and he refused each and every time. And then they did it once more before they shot him, and he still refused. At least he can't hurt anymore people personally.