Plan for mosque near World Trade Center site moves ahead

[Rydia]

No seriously, you practically can't be a Christian unless you know and understand that God's chosen people are the Jews.

If a supposed "Christian" hates Jews they're literally going against God therefor not making them Christians.

Hmm, there are two definitions of Christians that I have heard. One is those that believe that Jesus is the son of God. And others that simply follow Jesus's teachings and may or may not believe that he is the son of God. (There are actually athiest Christians. Crazy no? They do not believe in the divinity of Jesus or even in God, but they do see him as a role model much as someone would see Ghandi as one)

 

[Jamesy]

Actually, I would be ashamed and would completely understand why people wouldn't want a Christian Church built there. Guess what? I don't want ANY church/mosques built on what's supposed to be a burial ground for more than 2,000 innocent lives.

Those victims that survived, those people that are STILL sick from those attacks do have a right to disapprove of this.

Yea, because the extreme Christians really like bombing innocent people.

Oh, and remember, the extreme Christians LOVE to stone women to death for being raped.

Because we all know how extreme Christians love to strip women of every human right possible.

And we all know Extreme Christians just love trying to prevent abortions because they like the fight.

Don't forget about how the extreme Christians just love to make death threats towards the South Park creators every time they insult God or Jesus.

Lets all remember how the extreme Christians cheer for American deaths.

And remember boys and girls, the extreme Christians are the people that will and have tried to blow you up.


Oh, wait a second--damn. That's right Christians don't do any of that.

Remind me again how Christians are no more violent than extreme Islamics?

Can you tell us the last large group of people an extreme Christian killed in the name of his faith? What about the last building they blew up? The last woman they stoned to death? The last time you saw an extreme Christian holding a sign saying how much they hate America? Or what about the last time you saw extreme Christians cheering for the deaths of innocents?

No? Nothing?
You're right. That could very well happen. And that's scary to think of.

I agree 100%.

The people who survived do indeed have a "right" to an opinion, not a "right" to hold it back. Rights themselves arent very clearly defined legally these days.

Nah, fundie Christians just like to latch onto racist ideology, lynch and terrorise people in pretty recent history, plant nail bombs at gay bars and bomb abortion clinics, bugger wee boys and girls and cover up paedophile priests from the very highest level of the Vatican.

You want to talk about womens rights? Ask survivors of the Magdelene Asylums.

 

[Madaraki]

I'd just like to make one point about all this? I mean, there's a ton of religious stuff that's been spewed and I could put up a multi-paragraph rant about the appalling levels of ignorance here,

but that'd be winding off topic.

So anyway;

Anyone who's commented on how people will go near Ground Zero and "have to see it" or talked about how the Mosque is being built where people died etc. etc.

Look up all the information.

The mosque will be built two blocks away. TWO BLOCKS. In a city of skyscrapers, towers and the like, it's hardly going to be standing out. Seen the designs for the building? It's dwarfed by just about everything around it.

So we've got a comparatively small building that's not even within line of sight of Ground Zero. Starting from there, you might actually have to look for the thing if you wanted to see it.

Once more; this only made headlines because of "Mosque" and "Ground Zero". It's dramatized.

 

[Donald Trump]

Yea, because the extreme Christians really like bombing innocent people.

They blow up abortion clinics.
There's been ethnic violence in Africa started by Christians.
There's been the persecution of Jews until 1945.
Spanish Inquisition, the crusades.
Christians can be just as violent and terrible an any other religion.

Nobody liked Nazi Germans for what they did to the Jewish, why should I appreciate Muslims for what they did to Americans. You can call me prejudice, ignorant and gullible, but that is how I feel. I don't expect people from other countries to be supportive of America or Americans in general. If your country was under attack, you'll feel very different. Then your views will be just as prejudice, ignorant and gullible as mine. Especially if you lost a loved one.

Because Muslims haven't done anything. Al-Qaida have.

I'll make this one last post regarding this issue. Yes, I most certainly did make a comparison to Nazi Germany and Terrorism. If that is difficult to understand, then that's more of problem for you than it is for me.
Many innocent people died and for no good reason, as simple as that.

>3000 Americans vs 1 million Iraqis, all the deaths on innocents caused by the IDF, arming both sides in the Iran-Iraq war, arming Saddam Hussein.
This war was started by America.
All comparisons to the Holocaust are always ridiculous. 6 million Jews killed becaus they were Jewish, ie Genocide. 9/11 is not genocide, it's collateral damage.

And that's really how it is. Germans are all seen as Jewish hating Nazis when they're not.

No they aren't. No one thinks that, but a significant proportion of Americans feel that way about Muslims.

 

[CassinoChips]

Miss a day, miss the whole convo. Some thoughts to catch up.

No they aren't. No one thinks that, but a significant proportion of Americans feel that way about Muslims.

This.

Even during WW2, the reason Americans "hated" Germans was because we were fighting them in WW2, not because they were murdering Jews at a ridiculously astounding rate. The truth of the Holocaust didn't come out until the latter stages of war, or in some cases, years after the war. We're pretty much over German = Nazi. In fact, it's much more likely to see a white American youth with a shaved head as a Nazi, than a German. But every American (generalization) sees a dude in a turban and thinks 'terrorist.'




























Which is doubly ironic, because the vast majority of those who wear turbans in the US are actually Sikh, not Muslim. In a few years, I'm hopeful that will go away, like the Nazi stigma eventually has for Germany. But I'm not holding my breath.

Also, the people building this mosque are Americans too, let's not forget. They get the same rights as everybody else. It doesn't matter how they acquired the deed to the building, assuming it was legal. It's theirs, they can do what they want with it.

If we start denying people opportunities to do certain things simply because of what 'might happen' (angry idiots might attack the mosque), we won't be able to step outside. Slippery slope has no power here.

Crusades. Spanish Inquisition. Hutaree. Waco. St. Valentine's Day Massacre. Protestants v. Catholics in Ireland (and everywhere else). Sectarian violence in India, Russia, Africa. FGM in Africa. Every religion has its whack jobs. And yes, you can make the argument that these people aren't 'true Christians'. But you cannot make that argument and still say that al-Qaida are 'true Muslims'.

 

[Shu]

I don't think I'll read all 5 pages, nor any responses for now, so please forgive me while I just take in what the OP said from Post Numero Uno.

Reading this doesn't get much of an emotional response from me, other than if this is about "showing goodwill" so we don't get another homeland terrorist attack, then it's stupid. Why? Because if it is built or not, people still have been brainwashed enough to follow through with their plans to hate.

Furthermore the Ground Zero site symbolizes loss to the majority of the folks in this country, not from a specific religion per se, but by a group of cowardly individuals. To end ones life for an entity that one has never seen, never felt, never tasted, or any of the other senses, I believe is straight up retarded. Forgive me if I lack the faith in a religion in which when used out of context can condemn anyone against a mythical Allah, or a Hebrew/Christian god to die by a horrible death. So to me, symbols are everything to a country. Ground Zero is a thing of loss, and in my opinion there should be nothing built there, not even a sky scraper. It is to remember the day in which many folks were lost to a horrible ignorant cause. It should always be there for history purposes, so stuff like this can be at least a little more preventable.

 

[blakstang98]

I don't think I'll read all 5 pages, nor any responses for now, so please forgive me while I just take in what the OP said from Post Numero Uno.

Reading this doesn't get much of an emotional response from me, other than if this is about "showing goodwill" so we don't get another homeland terrorist attack, then it's stupid. Why? Because if it is built or not, people still have been brainwashed enough to follow through with their plans to hate.

Furthermore the Ground Zero site symbolizes loss to the majority of the folks in this country, not from a specific religion per se, but by a group of cowardly individuals. To end ones life for an entity that one has never seen, never felt, never tasted, or any of the other senses, I believe is straight up retarded. Forgive me if I lack the faith in a religion in which when used out of context can condemn anyone against a mythical Allah, or a Hebrew/Christian god to die by a horrible death. So to me, symbols are everything to a country. Ground Zero is a thing of loss, and in my opinion there should be nothing built there, not even a sky scraper. It is to remember the day in which many folks were loss to a horrible ignorant cause. It should always be there for history purposes, so stuff like this can be at least a little more preventable.

I would like to thank you Shu for your contribution to this thread. It's a real relief to see that I'm not the only one who feels as such. Many were lost, just in their memory it should be a sight left alone for the foreseeable future.

 

[The Witch]

Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero

As controversy surrounds the construction of a 13-story mosque just two blocks from Ground Zero, FOX News has learned that an effort to place a second mosque close to the hallowed site in New York City is in its advanced stages.

The Masjid Mosque has raised $8.5 million and is seeking an additional $2.5 million to begin construction. While it apparently has not settled on a final location, it has told donors it plans to build very close to where 3,000 people were killed in the September 11 terror attacks.

In fact, the website appealing for donations boldly states that it plans to “build the 'House of Allah' next to the World Trade Center. Help us raise the flag of 'LA ILLAH ILLA ALLAH' in downtown Manhattan."

One source said he believed the planners are considering a five-story building on 23 Park Place, closer to Ground Zero than the 13-story mosque the Cordoba Initiative is planning to build. But a tax record search shows that 23 Park Place is in private hands and has not changed owners since 2008.

Unlike the massive $100 million Cordoba House mosque, the Masjid Mosque is small – and it is no stranger to the neighborhood. Since 1970 it had been located at 12 Warren Street, about four blocks north of the World Trade Center, in a neat but nondescript industrial space that once housed a printing shop. It lost its lease in 2008 when the building was sold, and it was evicted from its second-floor prayer space on May 25 of that year. Since then it has been operating out a cramped basement space in a nearby building at 20 Warren Street.

On Friday evenings the mosque, which is popular with street vendors and taxi drivers, becomes so crowded that worshipers spill onto nearby sidewalks to pray in what has come to be a community event.

-Source-


Opinions?

 

[Æon Flux]

Hmmm I honestly dont see a problem with building a house of worship. If it was a Catholic or Christian Church would the same issues arise?
Temples/Church's are a place of supposed peace I honestly dont understand why anyone would be offended or upset by this...

 

[Shu]

Although these are two separate Stories, I'm going to consolidate them since they are on the same lines of topic.

- Threads Merged -

 

[Talbain]

In fact, the website appealing for donations boldly states that it plans to “build the 'House of Allah' next to the World Trade Center. Help us raise the flag of 'LA ILLAH ILLA ALLAH' in downtown Manhattan."

IT'S A HOUSE OF GOD, NOT SOME TERRORIST CODEWORD. Cripes. I can't wait wait for the wingnuts on Fox News to act like "Allah" is somehow synonymous with "Jihad", as it will continue to allow them to report some make-believe controversy. This story isn't even newsworthy, as it's simply one out of the hundreds of tributes and replacement buildings near the site that have been set up since 9/11. Why we are continuing to act like there is some "debate" here is beyond me.

 

[Jamesy]

As controversy surrounds the construction of a 13-story mosque just two blocks from Ground Zero, FOX News has learned that an effort to place a second mosque close to the hallowed site in New York City is in its advanced stages.

The Masjid Mosque has raised $8.5 million and is seeking an additional $2.5 million to begin construction. While it apparently has not settled on a final location, it has told donors it plans to build very close to where 3,000 people were killed in the September 11 terror attacks.

In fact, the website appealing for donations boldly states that it plans to “build the 'House of Allah' next to the World Trade Center. Help us raise the flag of 'LA ILLAH ILLA ALLAH' in downtown Manhattan."

One source said he believed the planners are considering a five-story building on 23 Park Place, closer to Ground Zero than the 13-story mosque the Cordoba Initiative is planning to build. But a tax record search shows that 23 Park Place is in private hands and has not changed owners since 2008.

Unlike the massive $100 million Cordoba House mosque, the Masjid Mosque is small – and it is no stranger to the neighborhood. Since 1970 it had been located at 12 Warren Street, about four blocks north of the World Trade Center, in a neat but nondescript industrial space that once housed a printing shop. It lost its lease in 2008 when the building was sold, and it was evicted from its second-floor prayer space on May 25 of that year. Since then it has been operating out a cramped basement space in a nearby building at 20 Warren Street.

On Friday evenings the mosque, which is popular with street vendors and taxi drivers, becomes so crowded that worshipers spill onto nearby sidewalks to pray in what has come to be a community event.

-Source-


Opinions?

God help us that Muslims dare worship their god in New York. You'll be gurning next that an arab won the miss USA.

You'd to an amazing job writing for the Daily Mail. How about you answer my points love. Or have I unsuprising proved you wrong, as I suspected.

 

[The Witch]

God help us that Muslims dare worship their god in New York. You'll be gurning next that an arab won the miss USA.

You'd to an amazing job writing for the Daily Mail. How about you answer my points love. Or have I unsuprising proved you wrong, as I suspected.

Wait--what?

 

[Æon Flux]

God help us that Muslims dare worship their god in New York. You'll be gurning next that an arab won the miss USA.

You'd to an amazing job writing for the Daily Mail. How about you answer my points love. Or have I unsuprising proved you wrong, as I suspected.

She was just updating her post with a bit more information relevent to the topic. Wich is commenly done as updates to articles of news are given

 

[The Witch]

She was just updating her post with a bit more information relevent to the topic. Wich is commenly done as updates to articles of news are given

Thank you.

 

[Æon Flux]

Thank you.

^^ Regardless of opinions You didnt create the article you just posted it as a topic of discussion.
Mind you I didnt read to many other posts being how many there are so whatever discussion was previous to mine I honestly have yet to know but updating a thred is simply that.
And I maintain my orriginal opinion on this matter anyways but still...
Your welcome ^^~

 

[Jamesy]

Eh I apologise then, assumed it was your views being backed up by an article.

 

[Shu]

Please folks, keep it on topic, this is a post count section /hall monitor ..

Add to it if you can, and don't worry so much about derailing it.

Thanks!