Israel vs Gaza

[Donald Trump]

Wrong again, sorry sport. America was made our country just as Israel was made into their country. Besides, if the whites in America don't own America because they're from Europe, then the Natives don't own it either because they're from Siberia.

No you America wasn't made your country. The settlers came and co-existed with the Native Americans who were there first. However it became to much hassle to coexist so they started killing them. Though can you please tell me what lead you to believe it 'made' your country. If you mean that the Americans butchered and killed then you are correct. However that's not what you are implying. Otherwise do you think god rocked up to Columbus, dragged his boat over to America and said, shit boy, why don't you have this here land.
Or is there some kind of middle ground, where the Americans butchered the Natives but it God had okayed it because they were all Heathens?

No, because anyone with a high school knowledge of genetics can tell you they are ethnically identical. There are no Palestinians, there are Arabs living in areas of Israel. Arabs are Arabs, they're language, religion, culture and customs are identical.

Oh? All dem non white be the same?
So, why was there a revolution in Iran, if they're all the same. Why is there trouble in Iraq if they're all the same?
They're clearly not the same.

And the Jews were in control of Israel until the late 1st century AD, the Arabs didn't try to make it theirs until much later, much less the 1500 year bullshit you pulled out of your ass. The Arabs have no claim to this land.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_when_islam.php
Proof there that the Arabs conquered Palestine/Israel/Judea in 638AD.
Prooves my point no?
So, uh, my 1500 years proves to be correct. Nice try, however may I suggest a facts based arguement next time?

Will you stop with the blatant lies please?

The IDF has never, ever targeted civilians. Unfortunately for you accidents aren't targeting. The Israeli's spend time and recources on dropping information to warn the civilians on where they plan to strike and what to do to be safe, another unfortunate fact for you

Sorry, but no.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/961683.html
UN says IDF is violating civil rights.
http://www.hrea.org/lists/refugee-rights/markup/msg00180.html
Human Rights Watch reports that the IDF violates internation law.
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/03/15/israel-stop-forcing-civilians-assist-military-operations
IDF uses Children as Human shields.

That took me less than 3 minutes, which shows the abundance of Israeli war crimes. Also it doesn't just blow wholes in your arguement that there are no war crimes, it completely discredits it. What will be interesting is if you still stick to your arguement, or agree that the IDF commits war crimes or completely ignore this.

Good to see you're not even trying to pull something out of your ass here. I've already proven that Israel actively works to protect civilians, and shown that you're nothing more than a liar. I'll take this as your concession champ.

Did you miss that, I said the IDF was killing civilians a point I've already proved. So I'm not sure why you've said this, seems like you are trying to condescend to me. Well my dear(lul) considering that I've disproved your arguement, and thoroughly backed up mine, you may take it as my confession, as I have nothing to confess except for my genius ( I know you are wondering who, so I'll save you the trouble of googling it, Oscar Wilde.)

They don;t let you out of the compound often, do they. You and your Jew hating pals have fun whining about ZOG for me, ok?

I've never really admired Israel attempts to dismiss or indeed smear anyone opposing them as anti-semites.

Both have been fighting since kingdom come, their both at fault here, and both should reach some sort of compromise, like splitting up the land.

However I can quickly see the two fighting over "this side has more vegetation than that side", blah blah blah.

This seems like an insolvable conflict, both will continue to fight over the land as long as its there(no I'm not suggesting we do something to the land so its no longer existent).

Call me crazy, but its their conflict, I think they should solve it.

We both know that's just idealism. It's a zero sum game. It would be lovely if both sides could put aside their greivances and just get along. But that's not going to happen unfortunately.

On a semi personal note, you're Puerto Rican right? I know they have amateurish hitmen in Colombia who work for the Cartels, but do they something similar in Puerto Rico? I'm not suggesting that Puerto Rico is rife with crime or anything like that, but it's something I'd like to know.

 

[One-winged Demon]

Both have been fighting since kingdom come, their both at fault here, and both should reach some sort of compromise, like splitting up the land.

However I can quickly see the two fighting over "this side has more vegetation than that side", blah blah blah.

This seems like an insolvable conflict, both will continue to fight over the land as long as its there(no I'm not suggesting we do something to the land so its no longer existent).

Call me crazy, but its their conflict, I think they should solve it.

They can't just solve their problems by splitting up their land.If it was so easy they would have done it.They will be fighting for many years until somebody wins.

 

[The Illusive Man]

I unlike the cowardly UN and the MPs of our country back israel 100%, im very disgusted that our country, one of the first to throw down there chips on the table and declare war on terrorism is doing a U turn and not backing israel on this....

It was a well known fact that hamas are a terrorist offshoot group that formed a political party, either way they are STILL terrorists!

The Isreali people have been persecuted by the arabs for as long as time remembers, I cant blame them for what there doing, I for one and sick of the one sided opinions and views of the news that are suddenly calling foul-play against israel.....whos still firing rockets into israel? who sent sucide bombers into israel during christmas? who voted in a terrorist organisation despite being warned by several other countries....thats right, the same people that this evil bunch of cretins are now using a human shield in gaza city....

they were warned what voting hamas in would cause, if anything im suprised israel didnt counter-attack them sooner...

 

[1EnjoiPanda7]

Thank you guys for clearing up what started this violence in the first place. Based on what you guys have said isn't the real enemy Hamas? Israel wouldn't have set up the blockade if Hamas wasn't committing acts of terror right? But on the other hand it was wrong of Israel in my opinion to set up that blockade for three months.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

No you America wasn't made your country. The settlers came and co-existed with the Native Americans who were there first. However it became to much hassle to coexist so they started killing them. Though can you please tell me what lead you to believe it 'made' your country. If you mean that the Americans butchered and killed then you are correct. However that's not what you are implying. Otherwise do you think god rocked up to Columbus, dragged his boat over to America and said, shit boy, why don't you have this here land.
Or is there some kind of middle ground, where the Americans butchered the Natives but it God had okayed it because they were all Heathens?

Good lord you must have done bad in history class. The Natives began raiding settlers villages long before the Europeans started attacking them. Many tribes feared the new people and so the tried to wipe them out. Indian massacres were a common theme back then, most of our attack were retaliatory.

If we don't belong in America, then they belong back in Siberia, end of story.

Oh? All dem non white be the same?
So, why was there a revolution in Iran, if they're all the same. Why is there trouble in Iraq if they're all the same?
They're clearly not the same.

Thanks for listing problems that are solely religious, not ethnic. The Arabs in Palestine have these same divisions among themselves and would blend right into to other Arab countries. Go take a high school geography course.

That took me less than 3 minutes, which shows the abundance of Israeli war crimes. Also it doesn't just blow wholes in your arguement that there are no war crimes, it completely discredits it. What will be interesting is if you still stick to your arguement, or agree that the IDF commits war crimes or completely ignore this.

Wow, I see you're using the most biased sources out there. The UN has appointed Syria to the Human Rights council to replace the USA, when the record shows that the Syrians are awful to their own people while Americans live free. The Human Rights organizations you list are funded by anti Semites who are well known for their support of Arabs against Jews, and are incredibly biased.

All of my information comes from credible and legitimate news organizations, all of whom say the Israeli's are protecting the civilians by telling them how to be safe, organizations like ABC news. Incredibly biased Israel haters don't discredit the major news outlets, sorry sport.

The fact remains that the IDF is an honorable military force protecting its nation by targeting only its military enemies, and Hamas' biggest target is women and children.

I've never really admired Israel attempts to dismiss or indeed smear anyone opposing them as anti-semites.

That idiot claimed that Jews run the world, he's very clearly a paranoid Jew hater.

 

[Dionysos]

Good lord you must have done bad in history class. The Natives began raiding settlers villages long before the Europeans started attacking them. Many tribes feared the new people and so the tried to wipe them out. Indian massacres were a common theme back then, most of our attack were retaliatory.

While Indian raids did occur, they were not as savage and evil and unprovoked as Wild Western fiction tells people. Yes, some were, but there were many Indians that did not want to cause war, and wanted to just have their land back, and some that tried to hide away peacefully as long as they could, but were eventually trapped and cornered.

The colonists however didn't give a damn about that as they'd just sailed for months across the Atlantic. They practically enforced their civilisation on the American lands, and drove the Native Americans out. Over the centuries they practically displaced the entire indigenous population. They were put on reservations for a while, like little wildlife parks for them almost, but that was short lived. They essentially HAD to accept US rule, and had their lands ripped from underneath their feet, and had to adapt to Western society.

I'm pretty sure that some fighting back can be justified. It's one of the western worlds biggest shames, the treatment of indigenous populations, not just in North America, but in the South amd Central America by the Spanish and Portuguesse as well.

If we don't belong in America, then they belong back in Siberia, end of story.

Not really. The Native Americans were settlers, not conquerors. They didn't replace a large population of other residents, and kill them because they didn't want to fit in with their society. Their movements into North America, to my knowledge, happened a long, long, long, way back, and was how mankind found itself in the Americas. Before then only mammals and megafauna populated the lands, not people.

Thanks for listing problems that are solely religious, not ethnic. The Arabs in Palestine have these same divisions among themselves and would blend right into to other Arab countries. Go take a high school geography course.

We can't just say that because they share a common religion (a conflicted issue), a common ethnicity, that they should be grouped together and dumped in a single land. Nationality is a touchy issue, and people generally don't like being moved about, especially because of their race.

That idiot claimed that Jews run the world, he's very clearly a paranoid Jew hater.

There may be some Jew haters out there, but Bez made a good point. Just because someone does not like the approach Israel is taking does not make them an anti-Semite, or "a Nazi, a Hitler clone, seig heil!" etc. I think that Israel should be open to just as much criticism as any other nation in the middle east that has a habbit of firing missiles at each other.

I'm still standing on it being neithers or both of their faults though, because really it is an unsolvable issue. It's a massive mess and they are going to be fighting for centuries to come unless one of them gets blown to smithereens.

 

[Donald Trump]

Good lord you must have done bad in history class. The Natives began raiding settlers villages long before the Europeans started attacking them. Many tribes feared the new people and so the tried to wipe them out. Indian massacres were a common theme back then, most of our attack were retaliatory.

Actually no, I'm an A star history student, that means I got over 90% and I did that for all three years. The examination borad was run by Cambridge incase you were wondering, giving me a rather better history knowledge than yours eh.
http://www.victoriana.com/history/nativeamericans.html
Yet again your knowledge is proved to be specious.

If we don't belong in America, then they belong back in Siberia, end of story.

We also all came from Africa so we should go back, amirite?
Point being of course that America was their land for at least 2000 years, giving them a more than equal claim to their land then the Jewish claim of Israel.

Wow, I see you're using the most biased sources out there. The UN has appointed Syria to the Human Rights council to replace the USA, when the record shows that the Syrians are awful to their own people while Americans live free. The Human Rights organizations you list are funded by anti Semites who are well known for their support of Arabs against Jews, and are incredibly biased.

Fail. The current members of the HRC are:
Angola

2010​

Argentina

2011​

Azerbaijan

2009​

Bahrain

2011​

Bangladesh

2009​

Bolivia

2010​

Bosnia and Herzegovina

2010​

Brazil

2011​

Burkina Faso

2011​

Cameroon

2009​

Canada

2009​

Chile

2011​

China

2009​

Cuba

2009​

Djibouti

2009​

Egypt

2010​

France

2011​

Gabon

2011​

Germany

2009​

Ghana

2011​

India

2010​

Indonesia

2010​

Italy

2010​

Japan

2011​

Jordan

2009​

Madagascar

2010​

Malaysia

2009​

Mauritius

2009​

Mexico

2009​

Netherlands

2010​

Nicaragua

2010​

Nigeria

2009​

Pakistan

2011​

Philippines

2010​

Qatar

2010​

Republic of Korea

2011​

Russian Federation

2009​

Saudi Arabia

2009​

Senegal

2009​

Slovakia

2011​

Slovenia

2010​

South Africa

2010​

Switzerland

2009​

Ukraine

2011​

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

2011​

Uruguay

2009​

Zambia

2011​

So this throws your bias claim out the window, unless all of these countries hate Israel?
Clearly not.

Another nail in your coffin here, HRW AKA Human Rights Watch, " is a United States based, international non-governmental organization that conducts research and advocacy on human rights"
Infact the current Director's father fled from Nazis, so hardly Mr Anti-Semite is he?

SO your attempt to challenge my evidence fails. Furthermore you have not yet provided any yourself? Please do, otherwise your arguement is no more than an anti-Palestinian speech.

Thanks for listing problems that are solely religious, not ethnic. The Arabs in Palestine have these same divisions among themselves and would blend right into to other Arab countries. Go take a high school geography course.

I'm at university, so that would be taking a step backwards. Since you are claiming that they'd all get along swimmingly, the onus of proof is on you.
So, lets have some evidence supporting your claim that all arabs are the same, that the neighbouring countries would be able to accomodate the influx of refugees, that they have to accomodate them, and that it would not lower their standards of living.
If you can't drop this particular point as you cannot prove it, so it hs no worth.
Furthermore you still haven't said why they should be forced to leave them home for almost 1500 years.

That idiot claimed that Jews run the world, he's very clearly a paranoid Jew hater.

A mod warning, please don't call people idiots.

Thank you guys for clearing up what started this violence in the first place. Based on what you guys have said isn't the real enemy Hamas? Israel wouldn't have set up the blockade if Hamas wasn't committing acts of terror right? But on the other hand it was wrong of Israel in my opinion to set up that blockade for three months.

Hamas are just fighting for their country and countrymen. The blockade was started during a peacefire, and as illegal.

It was a well known fact that hamas are a terrorist offshoot group that formed a political party, either way they are STILL terrorists!

As a Fatah, so that's a double standard.

The Isreali people have been persecuted by the arabs for as long as time remembers, I cant blame them for what there doing, I for one and sick of the one sided opinions and views of the news that are suddenly calling foul-play against israel.....whos still firing rockets into israel? who sent sucide bombers into israel during christmas? who voted in a terrorist organisation despite being warned by several other countries....thats right, the same people that this evil bunch of cretins are now using a human shield in gaza city....

Hamas don't use human shields, it's illogical.
Israel has persecuted Palestine and all the Arab nations surrounding it.
Hamas may be firing rockets, but Israel are stilld ropping bombs, the only one sided arguement is one that, as yours is trying to do, put all the blame on Hamas.




​

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

Since you're just repeating the same defeated arguments I'll just take that as your concession in all points. I have to ask you something though, why all the hate for the Jews? Are you a follower of Islam or have you just been misguided by all the anti Semitic propaganda out there?

 

[Donald Trump]

Since you're just repeating the same defeated arguments I'll just take that as your concession in all points. I have to ask you something though, why all the hate for the Jews? Are you a follower of Islam or have you just been misguided by all the anti Semitic propaganda out there?

When you're faced with defeat try not to change what I say just a little then repeat it back to me. I've rebutted every ridiculous statement you've thrown into the debate, so you make a post consisting of one small paragraph, knowing that if you were to try to prove your point again, I'd just shut you down as you can't provide any proof.
So you're back to the old smear tactic, everyone that disagrees with Israel is an anti-semite. So as I'm not in the least anti-semitic I'll give you a bit of advice.
Don't come back to any debate until you can argue properly. Also libel people because your logic is inherently flawed.
Now gtfo my internets kthnxbai.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

Sorry sport, but the fact that the Israeli's have continually gone out of there way to defend civilians by dropping leaflets and what not and the fact that Hamas continually targets nothing but Israeli civilians kind of destroyed any argument you might have had.

You can try to save face all you want, but in the end your snide comments like, "read a source not written by a Jew" and "you need a non Jewish source to be objective" are quite strong indicators of Antisemitism. Now I'm sure you have a Mahmoud Ahmadinejad support rally or cross burning to attend to, so I'll let you be on your way.

 

[Donald Trump]

You can try to save face all you want, but in the end your snide comments like, "read a source not written by a Jew" and "you need a non Jewish source to be objective" are quite strong indicators of Antisemitism. Now I'm sure you have a Mahmoud Ahmadinejad support rally or cross burning to attend to, so I'll let you be on your way.

That's cool actually I've got his face tattooed on my back as well as someof his teachings. Unfortunately I couldn't find any of yours.
Furthermore it's fairly standard practice to challenge a source by discussing its author. Remember when you errorneously though all my sources where written by neo nazis? As the evidence was all pro-Israel it was a safe assumption that any Jewish author would be biased.

Sorry sport, but the fact that the Israeli's have continually gone out of there way to defend civilians by dropping leaflets and what not and the fact that Hamas continually targets nothing but Israeli civilians kind of destroyed any argument you might have had.

Yeah really good arguement there. Firstly proof?
Secondly dropping leaflets doesn't actually help. Most people have nowhere to go(Don't blame the Arab states for that again) and also it's still destroying the property of civilians as well as killing them.
If I were to run you over in my car, and I had said that I would be driving on the pavement, it wouldn't be much of an excuse would it?
Now do you have any more serious points?
Or are you going to inflict your 'wit' upon us all again.

 

[littleslyferret]

Looks to me like this is turning awai from da thread and 2 da egoez.
Forgive me, I was just following the trend with that. I'll act refined.

You both really are starting to veer off, though. Save the e-preening for something you can still talk about without repetition.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

I'm sorry Bez, but repeating a lie doesn't make it any more true.

Hamas is solely to blame for this current war, and the Arab states could solve this engineered crisis in a day if they wanted to. This is nothing but Islamic Antisemitism in action.

 

[Dionysos]

I'm sorry Bez, but repeating a lie doesn't make it any more true.

Hamas is solely to blame for this current war, and the Arab states could solve this engineered crisis in a day if they wanted to. This is nothing but Islamic Antisemitism in action.

The state of the middle east, let alone Israel over Gaza, is a very sad case indeed, and massive mammoth of a mess. To be honest, I'm not sure if there could be any easy to gain peace to solve the crisis when both sides are passionate about blowing the heads off the other over it.

But please, please, please don't think that anyone who disagrees that Israel is pure and innocent, thumb in mouth, with wide watery eyes watching the evil snarling bearded horned demons across the border poking their teddy bears with a stick, is an anti-semite.

I don't think theres been any real hatred of the Jews hinted at in this thread, just the approaches Israel as a nation has taken regarding this issue, which should be evaluated just as critically as any other hostile middle eastern country. So we need to seperate one sensitive issue from the other here I think. Someone stating a disagreement with the state of Israels actions towards the Gaza issue does NOT suggest that they are all book burners, do the goosestep, finger on upper lip, arm straight and raised in the air, yelling out "Seig Heil!".

 

[Ugur Mese]

Actually the war is the fault of Hammas...by simply reacting with violence to every bad situation...but not to forget that israel is doin also wrong by responding with violence. Btw did anyone see the people watching how houses in Gaz. get bombed by israel, while standing on the border?....

 

[Kei]

They are both at fault, and that's because:
1. Israel started bombing on Gaza that's why Hamas started firing back at them.
2. Hamas is being stupid for getting the people in Gaza involved in their matters, many children and women are dying because of them and because of Israel, Hamas leaders should be in the battlefield not outside it.
3. Israel is using many forbidden weapons, and it violates human rights.
4. Hamas has no strategy at all, the just hit randomly, and so is Israel they just bomb anything they see.