[31/01] FFXV January ATR: Who's who in Niflheim; showcasing of magic; and Metal Gear gameplay

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just to throw my two cents in there: When Nomura pitched the idea for Versus to Yoichi Wada, then-CEO of SE, he was given full access to an almost unlimited reservoir of resources on the condition that Nomura treat Versus as a side-project while balancing it with numerous other obligations (the FFVII compilation, KH BBS, World Ends With You, etc). Yoichi Wada, when interviewed about the fan-speculated rumor that the project had been cancelled replied with something along the lines of desiring the "perfect game," which is how he justified the long gaps between disseminated information regarding the game's development.

There were two priorities during the Nomura development years: characterization and graphical design. Nomura wanted a strong group of tightly-knit characters and he wanted us to be able to see every strand of hair on their heads and every single thread in their clothes. What took the longest was to develop the graphics. Versus was announced during the PS2 era and was bumped up to PS3 then subsequently to PS4. The technology kept changing and Nomura's team had to keep adapting. Their goal was to produce the most graphically superior game on their console of release. To give you an idea of how graphically driven the game was during this stage, SE partnered with a high-end clothing design firm to physically create the cast's wardrobe that would then be replicated on computer.

It may seem like a surprise, but the actual story of the game wasn't a priority until much later in the development stage. The dev team at the time only had a rough idea of what they wanted to accomplish with regards to plot. They had several key ideas, of course; for example, they knew they wanted to incorporate the fal'Cie and they knew they wanted to have a road trip in an big, modernized overworld that would resemble the real world. The dev team even traveled to cities across Europe and Asia in order to get inspiration for their architectural design.

However, aside from these bullet point ideas, the story wouldn't be solidified until after they had a cast, graphics, locations, and a battle system in place. They would later wrap these around a more comprehensive, finalized story. This shouldn't be too much of shock, but in all the Final Fantasies, the final stories were always different, if not drastically so, from their prototypes.

My point here is: FFXV's story as presented to us during the Versus years was never set in stone and was always subject to change regardless of the lead developer.

For the record, like many fans, I loved the idea of Versus and was saddened when I saw that many of the advertised concepts from the prototype didn't carry over to XV. So Razberry Knight, you're not alone in feeling disappointed, hurt, and even betrayed. There are fans out there that feel the same way. But unfortunately, no matter how you slice it, XV isn't Versus, and Versus is essentially an abandoned project. The hard work that went into Versus was transplanted into XV for better or for worse. However, I personally refuse to judge XV until I've played the completed game.

As someone who has led several multimedia projects in the past, I know what it's like to craft something that morphs and evolves far from its starting point. The process can be long and arduous, and sometimes, I've wound up with an end product that was nowhere near what I had originally envisioned during the planning stage. But that's how organic projects pan out; they're subject to change for numerous reasons. What matters is how the end product is received. It's because I know this firsthand that I don't like to follow news reports, interviews, or press conferences. I don't want them to bias or otherwise taint my view of the finished product.

My friendly advice to you is that you do the same. Just shut out the media noise and wait for the final release before you pass judgement. If you don't go into the game expecting people, places, and interactions; if the story is foreign to you and you're forced to explore it with an untainted, unbiased view, I think you'll be able to enjoy yourself more than if you started playing it with an already apprehensive and antagonistic outlook.
 
Just to throw my two cents in there: When Nomura pitched the idea for Versus to Yoichi Wada, then-CEO of SE, he was given full access to an almost unlimited reservoir of resources on the condition that Nomura treat Versus as a side-project while balancing it with numerous other obligations (the FFVII compilation, KH BBS, World Ends With You, etc). Yoichi Wada, when interviewed about the fan-speculated rumor that the project had been cancelled replied with something along the lines of desiring the "perfect game," which is how he justified the long gaps between disseminated information regarding the game's development.
actually, from what we do know is that they've been working on many other projects. Ffversus 13 whether had unlimited resources or not isnt the dilemma (it could, but from what we know explicitly, it cant be confirmed).

Ffversus 13 has been on the back burner for years.
There were two priorities during the Nomura development years: characterization and graphical design. Nomura wanted a strong group of tightly-knit characters and he wanted us to be able to see every strand of hair on their heads and every single thread in their clothes. What took the longest was to develop the graphics. Versus was announced during the PS2 era and was bumped up to PS3 then subsequently to PS4. The technology kept changing and Nomura's team had to keep adapting. Their goal was to produce the most graphically superior game on their console of release. To give you an idea of how graphically driven the game was during this stage, SE partnered with a high-end clothing design firm to physically create the cast's wardrobe that would then be replicated on computer.
for the record, ffv13 has always been confirmed for ps3 even when it was announced around the end of ps2. But technology has always changed isn't an issue. SE was relying so much onto themselves and never outsourced to other technology until ps4 and have now been able to advance faster. Granted, ps4 is much easier to work with than the ps3 at the time.
It may seem like a surprise, but the actual story of the game wasn't a priority until much later in the development stage. The dev team at the time only had a rough idea of what they wanted to accomplish with regards to plot. They had several key ideas, of course; for example, they knew they wanted to incorporate the fal'Cie and they knew they wanted to have a road trip in an big, modernized overworld that would resemble the real world. The dev team even traveled to cities across Europe and Asia in order to get inspiration for their architectural design.

Nomura addressed many many things before. Now for the record, one of the key things Nomura has addressed was the characters. Specifically Noctis "and" Stella. And again...what everyone ignores but loves to call me a broken record for isbthat this impacts a lot more.


However, aside from these bullet point ideas, the story wouldn't be solidified until after they had a cast, graphics, locations, and a battle system in place. They would later wrap these around a more comprehensive, finalized story. This shouldn't be too much of shock, but in all the Final Fantasies, the final stories were always different, if not drastically so, from their prototypes.
Script may have not been solidified, but story most definitely have been set.

Still....nothing (and I mean nothing) has ever been done like FFv13 / FF XV.

Were talking about a game pitched for 6 years, with 5 trailers (and yes, I'm including closed theatre events too). We had a steady escalation of expectation by SE just by the things they emphasized. And even when re-announced as FFXV, it was with a promise that FFXV was still the same game we've been expecting 6 years ago.

And the change as much as these fanboys want to ignore. Was that the changes were bigger than just one character. They refocused the plot and over simplified it, they censored because the brand became too important. Everything we knew we explicitly know wasnt upgrade, and even then had other staff members having to take over what one person (Nomura) could've easily solved.

And that's the biggest difference. How undercutted ffxv is all about. Everything is centered through that lately. The shift inn promotion has been messy. ATR is the biggest thing they've done. And it's to hide what the game will be about. And the fans who watch them have stopped caring about the story, or how characters will interact, or what exactly ffxv is about. Everything ffxv is is just another skyrim (yes, im going that far).

My point here is: FFXV's story as presented to us during the Versus years was never set in stone and was always subject to change regardless of the lead developer.
As development progresses, the story will obviously change, especially in alpha stage where the story needs to be integrated into the aforementioned things. Thats normal. but ffv13 just didn't have a minor adjustment or two and still called the same game at heart. we have ffv13 skin being worn by another game and most importantly superceded by someone else who did not create the game in the beginning.


I like to compare it to Sieg Larrson's Millennium series, and due to his untimely death, his family controls his estate and allowed the publisher to make a direct sequel "The Girl in the Spider's Web".

I cannot go behind a game or any thing that does that unless the final product was released and was a proven failure and misdirection.
 
No citations I see. I am going to be an asshole to you because you have a superiority complex..a bad one at that. Your shit doesn't smell like roses. I won't ever see things your way in this situation because I don't have too. It comes across to me mainly as nitpicking and constant redone complaining. When all is said and done, you won't be buying FFXV for me. You won't be putting the time into FFXV for me. You won't be enjoying FFXV for me (assuming it doesn't turn out to be a broken mess technical wise). You're not a special snowflake. You are no more or less important than the next person who helps keep the franchise going. You could be an adult and take responsibility for your actions, but you would rather play the blame game card that's already been overused at this point.
 
No citations I see.


Because clearly you can't look that up for yourself and find out.

And superiority complex? If I have any complex it's letting idiots getting away with saying the most BS answer.

FfXV or at least Square Enix itself doesn't deserve it. As much as they try to paint themselves as angles. And if you don't want to understand. Then don't act like you know anything about anything.
 
Blah blah blah. Yes, anybody who takes an opposite stance is automatically an idiot to you. You blame Tabata for your position, as you have in the past. I know enough about your repetitive nature to call it out. You blame the game for not turning out the way you thought it should have. If what I am typing is so bs, you wouldn't even respond...... You and the Nora person that got banned on the official FFXV forums would have gotten along great. You both have almost the exact same personality, stance, and typing structure. It's a bit scary.
 
Blah blah blah. Yes, anybody who takes an opposite stance is automatically an idiot to you.
no...just you and lunafreya for the most part. You're the only ones I'm calling out. Everyone else is fine here. Heck I've been on Pm discussions.

You blame Tabata for your position, as you have in the past. I know enough about your repetitive nature to call it out. You blame the game for not turning out the way you thought it should have. If what I am typing is so bs, you wouldn't even respond......
i dont blame Tabata exclusively. Afterall it was a decision by someone else. But i blame how SE has handled their entire production up until this pointm

what i do blame Tabata for is turning XV closer and closer to Type-0. It resembles it in both art style, new character archetypes and even game progression recently as we invade bases.

You and the Nora person that got banned on the official FFXV forums would have gotten along great. You both have almost the exact same personality, stance, and typing structure. It's a bit scary.
it wouldn't surprise me one bit if someone out there is saying the same stuff I've been saying. Heck I have my own group of fellow ff friends who create their own Indie games. They also agree that as a content Creator, they can't back up something that was reinvented by someone else.

If you're ok with that. Congratulations, you have no integrity. Me, I would die before allowing myself to work on something I cared about, struggled to get the production it deserves and then having to hand it over to someone else only to make changes to it that I most likely not have agreed to.

And maybe that's the difference...I'm a content Creator. I'm not just a fan, .I appreciate work that put into it. But i also believe the one who needs to make changes ultimately has to be the original designer who created the furst draft in the first place. FFxv isnt becoming more ambitious, its filling in holes by pitting a whole new story over it.

Ultimately characters I truly cared about have become generic, replaced, or lost their individuality. (Noctis, Stella, Regis). I'm not seeing the limelight. I'm not exited...I already played enough skyrim level, modern games. What sold me were the characters.
 
You know what you could do? This is a crazy idea, but you could actually wait until the game comes and out and see some reviews. Frankly, everything under the sun could be generic in your book. FFXV is doing its job in my book. It's getting me more and more excited. It gives me a chance to speak with others are that are also looking forward to the title, even though we don't agree on everything. Games in general are suppose to be a means of entertainment. You only live once, and I'm not going to spend my time talking about things that would frustrate me over and over again. It's up to you to fix your problem. Nobody else can do that.
 
FfXV as it stands is an open world RPG with action based combat. Regardless of what I think, we both know that alone sells in the gaming community regardless of what her a game is good or not. Plus with the warp ability and summons and all that. We know it will be decent. By for me it's not about whether the game will be good game wise, bust character wise. And characters are hardly ever highlighted as a specific topic in reviews.

Look at Skyrim. It was an open world and a generic one at that. Some of the most interesting places were empty and lifeless. But it had just enough to be considered a fan favorite. Even elders scroll fans have some things to say against skyrim and it is still beloved.

You don't get it. You have this wall that prevents you from even understanding what I'm saying. You can't understand that if I buy this game I'm supporting the idea of more people being uddercutted by the industry and poor decisions.

You don't understand that I can live without playing a good game.
 
You're giving the "understanding" lecture again. We've been down that road already. I'm not here to understand you. You have nothing to present that would make me rethink my position. Your stance is the same as it was months back, except progressively more negative. There isn't anything else to keep in my memory. My wall is a lot smaller than yours. You don't see multiple people going back and forth with me trying to get me to reconsider something. Most game series in the world have an extremely solid foundation that they don't deviate too extremely from. FF mainline titles have been an exception due to the very foundation being change in itself. It's a double-edged sword, as it always has been. Sometimes you can get something right up your lane, and sometimes you'll get something that you can't connect with at all.
 
You're giving the "understanding" lecture again. We've been down that road already. I'm not here to understand you. You have nothing to present that would make me rethink my position. Your stance is the same as it was months back, except progressively more negative. There isn't anything else to keep in my memory. My wall is a lot smaller than yours. You don't see multiple people going back and forth with me trying to get me to reconsider something. Most game series in the world have an extremely solid foundation that they don't deviate too extremely from. FF mainline titles have been an exception due to the very foundation being change in itself. It's a double-edged sword, as it always has been. Sometimes you can get something right up your lane, and sometimes you'll get something that you can't connect with at all.
there have been plenty of games that change things up in every entry, and it's common with JRPGs. Final fantasy has mostly been consistent. And ffxv is different in a lot of ways from the main title. Most of it's inspiration was born to be a spin off and there is a difference between mainline.

Ff changes all the time but it doesn't rely on the change to be popular.. accessible sure, but not the defining feature. Ff just been more ambitious for change. But the changes to ff have been closer to other series. And thatsbwhere I believe ff mosses the mark. By not trying to be a unique ff experience only ff has.

Now despite that. Not the main point. And again. I don't give a shid if you want to understand me or not. But if you want to get anywhere with me, you will have to.

I'm not going to argue about whether ff is about change. All franchises as long as ff are about change. They can't always rely on the same formula, adjustments and additions are what keep it alive. So with that said, I don't care whether ffxv is open world, or action oriented. It was bound to happen in mainline ff. But that is not what makes me stop.

Ffxv at content Creator perspective makes me hate it. Everything FFXv stands for. And if you have no interest in talking about that or where I'm heading into then give it up. Don't complain about sounding the same tune unless you actively want to challenge something you never fully talked about before.
 
The different fruits approach again. Once again, moot as always. I've openly talked about FFXV in good detail, but it hasn't been on this forum. Even the thread I made about my journey with the title was a simplified version of what I've discussed with other people. So what you know is limited to what you see here, which I am going to use to my full advantage. You keep trying to explain yourself when there's no need for it. Your stance is the same as before, as is mine. Perhaps you are wanting me to pull up my thoughts in full for you, but that isn't happening. I would gladly do it with another forum member here if the chance presents itself, but it will never be with you.
 
The different fruits approach again. Once again, moot as always. I've openly talked about FFXV in good detail, but it hasn't been on this forum. Even the thread I made about my journey with the title was a simplified version of what I've discussed with other people. So what you know is limited to what you see here, which I am going to use to my full advantage. You keep trying to explain yourself when there's no need for it. Your stance is the same as before, as is mine. Perhaps you are wanting me to pull up my thoughts in full for you, but that isn't happening. I would gladly do it with another forum member here if the chance presents itself, but it will never be with you.

And hence you admitted youre trolling.

So don't get Pissy when I play the same tune. Also no, it's not about wanting to know things inndetail. But you intentionally drop the argument.

If you simply addressed any of the main points I bring up, maybe, just maybe you'll hear something different. But you are beyond stupid if you think you are making yourself look any good by admitting this BS.
 
You have a vague definition of the term "trolling". I wouldn't get that mixed up for me simply not caring about you to a high degree. I don't treat everybody the same, because everybody doesn't act the same. Did you really expect something different? FFXV is going to come out, and there's nothing that you can do to stop what will be.
 
Honestly..you have said nothing but BS. Any significant points you brought up don't relate to.me. and you think that they are relevant to the main issue.

Honestly....no one in this forum except you and linafreya do this. Where instantly grow deqf ears on something and then try to use the same argument. I end up getting the last word each time. And no, I don't consider that a good thing, because one plays stupid. Or maybe it s genuine retardation.

Just maybe I'm talking to the one person who acts tough but has nothing tonshow for it because their secret will come out.
 
The FFXV event at the 30th is going to be pretty damn special. I do hope Nomura can make it. I'm hoping we get to see quite a bit of commentary from those that worked on the project for such a long time. I'm not going to lie, I'll probably cry like a baby a lot. The feels are going to be over 9000!

You and Nora both like having the last word. I find that to be rather sad.
 
See what I mean? You intentionally try to deviate from the main poijtm or refuse to acknowledge the main point is (like lunafreya does).

Keep the last word if you want. But don't act like you know what the problem is and then ignore what it actually is.

But I hope one day you all know how it feels like to be in that situation. Where you create something and want to fulfill and eventually gets taken away from you, not because it was your fault but because the ones you work for didn't give your project enough attention to until it's too late.
 
Wow what a load of banter from someone who always never backs down. FinalxxSin Lunafreya I commend you both for dealing with the troubles of the select few but just remember enjoy the game for what it is and hey one less sale won't hurt :).

I am all for change and I will wait till the game is in my hands until I judge it. There is always FFXVI for the back to formula, and considering I've played mostly all the FF games and spin offs, this looks similar to type 0 but it definitely isn't. Plus Type-0 was a good handheld title :).

We need some moderation on this section people just don't know when to back down and call it a day.
 
one plays stupid. Or maybe it s genuine retardation.

People who are actually adept at the whole arguing business put their points across and respond to opposing ones in an articulate and cordial way. People who suck at it resort to ad hominem. Just saying.

I've had a quick glance at your posts and they're all the same things. So much of it is pure conjecture that you can't possibly know for sure, unless you have some kind of mystical neural link into Nomura's mind. You can state why from a game design standpoint the reasons you have qualms with the game, because that's perfectly fine. I'm personally more apathetic towards it than anything, which is partially why I don't engage with this topic as much as I used to. But these fervent comparisons with Versus and the insistence that the current team has sullied Lord Nomura's sacred vision are daft when...we barely know what his plans for Versus even were, beyond the surface level. We don't know how the sequence of internal developmental events has played out over the last ten years, which is why all we can do is make wild guesses.

Fair enough if you feel FFXV is detestable based on a set of principles that you hold dearly, but I don't understand the need for this neverending crusade against people who remotely disagree with you. It's particularly hard to take you seriously when you so often place yourself on a high pedestal, while lacking the ability to properly communicate your ideas to others without unwarranted abrasiveness.
 
While I'm not the direct mod of this section, I think it needs to be said.

The posts within this thread are becoming less about the content and more about the personal bickering between members. Please return to civilised discussion or infractions will be given; the thread may need to be closed also.
 
While I'm not the direct mod of this section, I think it needs to be said.

The posts within this thread are becoming less about the content and more about the personal bickering between members. Please return to civilised discussion or infractions will be given; the thread may need to be closed also.

I'm not afraid to call BS when I see it. And really, you're calling ad hominem now?

This is exactly why I don't recognize either of these members.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top