[29/10] Versus XIII version of Lucis worshipped Reapers - age ratings said no to that

[Linnaete]

​

In today's edition of Why Would You Mention This, producer Hajime Tabata appeared on the official FFXV forums once again to answer the most pressing questions of the day. In his posts, he talks about the colour black and why one of the original visions for FFXV was ultimately discarded: age ratings and certain countries that aren't as inviting when it comes to depictions of Reapers.

By the way, in Versus 13 Lucis was set as a country of Reaper worship. This setting is a violation of the age rating criteria for games in some countries, so we cannot push these theme. To replace these theme, we have a backbone setting of “black as a special colour.” And I hope you will wait for more information to come on this.

Those who already know a lot about FF15 like yourselves may feel these settings are unnecessary. But for those who have just been introduced to the world of FF15, these settings can be a great help in familiarizing themselves with this new world. Now let’s say you, do1pen, have been asked by someone, “What kind of a game is FF15?” It is hard to answer this question if you don’t have a clear idea what the most important theme is. The FF series comprise so many elements and it is among the most difficult games to explain in a few words. For FF15, we consider it very important to have a clear theme that you can explain in a few plain words. So my and all my fellow FFXV developers’ answer to the question “What kind of a game is FF15?” would be “a game to regain a kingdom once lost.”

^FFXII already did this, by the way.

So essentially, personified death (presumably Etro in the original vision as the guiding deity for expiring souls) is too hardcore for a good chunk of the global audience because of their age ratings (such as China I would imagine), so that element is now totally absent in FFXV.

Regarding the colour black and why it seems so cool now:

The clothing worn by the four main characters is the official battle gear of the Kingdom of Lucis.
Noctis is a member of the royal family and the other three characters are parts of various Lucian national organisations and they are each wearing the specific battle dress relevant to their individual stations.

In the Kingdom of Lucis where our heroes reside, the colour black has historically been treated as a special colour. Because of this, the attire of the royal family and those in occupations closely tied to them are unified by having black as a base colouring. This part of the lore is the reason why the outfits of all four main characters are black. For the finished game we also intend on having their clothing having effects in battle and not just being a part of the world and its background. So watch out for that too!

In the process of game creation, there are two patterns – one where there is a setting and game elements are determined based on that setting, and the other where we have game elements and a setting is created using these elements. So this case falls into the latter.

 

[Dionysos]

Avoiding personified death? That's ridiculous.

FF games do that all of the time. FFVII even gave us Hades as a summon (and in no subtle form either - he was essentially a robed skeleton). That's saying nothing about the countless undead creatures that fill every FF game.

I think it would have been quite cool to have the Reaper worship. So long as the new story doesn't suffer for the lack of this element then I guess it doesn't matter. I'm sure this itself will not impact on the quality of the story.

But it makes me laugh a bit. This is a game which was intended to be darker, and perhaps more adult-orientated. Now that it is a numbered title and no longer Versus, they seem to have toned it down more. Yet need they? Even Kingdom Hearts, despite its cute appearance and use of popular Disney characters, had quite a dark plot at times.

I guess if some countries raise the age rating for depicting personified death (or maybe it is the worship of death that causes alarm - as if it is seen as encouraging demon worship or satanism or something) then the choice to remove this entirely will help the game sell.

 

[Rey]

Avoiding personified death? That's ridiculous.

FF games do that all of the time. FFVII even gave us Hades as a summon (and in no subtle form either - he was essentially a robed skeleton). That's saying nothing about the countless undead creatures that fill every FF game.

I think it would have been quite cool to have the Reaper worship. So long as the new story doesn't suffer for the lack of this element then I guess it doesn't matter. I'm sure this itself will not impact on the quality of the story.

But it makes me laugh a bit. This is a game which was intended to be darker, and perhaps more adult-orientated. Now that it is a numbered title and no longer Versus, they seem to have toned it down more. Yet need they? Even Kingdom Hearts, despite its cute appearance and use of popular Disney characters, had quite a dark plot at times.

I guess if some countries raise the age rating for depicting personified death (or maybe it is the worship of death that causes alarm - as if it is seen as encouraging demon worship or satanism or something) then the choice to remove this entirely will help the game sell.

I would not worry about what Tabata said, Dan. For all you know, it is a bunch of trolling and it is also important to note Versus XIII was only 25 percent complete so there was absolutely no way they were going to include things in its entirety. I highly doubt this even means anything for the story, tbh. We still do have dark themes. Yeah, but toning it down is just a bunch of theories, really. We cannot really know right now without seeing new parts of the game for ourselves, but I can tell you for sure that the game is still darker than past FF titles. Why do I say this? Well, let's look at Luna being pushed/beaten as a child, Regis getting held at gun point by Idola, and the plague of stars (blood moon?) supposedly erasing day time and making it night permanently. We already know that Luna is going to have something to do with this plague of stars business to stop it, and we will see her strong resolve, hopefully. We still have yet to see the dark parts of the game in its entirety but think about it like this: Versus was in development hell and probably had a completed script, but they just couldn't keep at it because the project was so ambitious that they had to change the direction a tiny bit. I would not worry about this because I still think Tabata means black is an important colour because it may put an emphasis on death, somewhat. We also know Gentiana is dressed in all black as well, so maybe SE needed to change the theme a bit to make her a character that fits in the game since she was not in versus. However, I do agree with you that FF worshiping death is kind of nothing new. Hell, during Tempus Finis in Type-0, the Rursus army slaughters millions of people brutally. The souls are then used as sacrifices to force the Gate of Etro open.

 

[Dionysos]

I would not worry about what Tabata said, Dan. For all you know, it is a bunch of trolling and it is also important to note Versus XIII was only 25 percent complete so there was absolutely no way they were going to include things in its entirety. I highly doubt this even means anything for the story, tbh. We still do have dark themes. Yeah, but toning it down is just a bunch of theories, really. We cannot really know right now without seeing new parts of the game for ourselves, but I can tell you for sure that the game is still darker than past FF titles. Why do I say this? Well, let's look at Luna being pushed/beaten as a child, Regis getting held at gun point by Idola, and the plague of stars (blood moon?) supposedly erasing day time and making it night permanently. We already know that Luna is going to have something to do with this plague of stars business to stop it, and we will see her strong resolve, hopefully. We still have yet to see the dark parts of the game in its entirety but think about it like this: Versus was in development hell and probably had a completed script, but they just couldn't keep at it because the project was so ambitious that they had to change the direction a tiny bit. I would not worry about this because I still think Tabata means black is an important colour because it may put an emphasis on death, somewhat. We also know Gentiana is dressed in all black as well, so maybe SE needed to change the theme a bit to make her a character that fits in the game since she was not in versus. However, I do agree with you that FF worshiping death is kind of nothing new. Hell, during Tempus Finis in Type-0, the Rursus army slaughters millions of people brutally. The souls are then used as sacrifices to force the Gate of Etro open.

You're right. It's still quite dark, it seems. Thankfully.

It might even be scary at times. The one-eyed behemoth from the demo was quite frightening. As may the pyjama party goblins that we'll encounter in the wilderness at night.

 

[The Witch]

The clothing worn by the four main characters is the official battle gear of the Kingdom of Lucis.
Noctis is a member of the royal family and the other three characters are parts of various Lucian national organisations and they are each wearing the specific battle dress relevant to their individual stations.

All hope lost. Outfits are one thing, but to say that shit is the 'battle gear' of their kingdom is fucking ridiculous. I almost feel like this is a troll. I really do. It just doesn't seem real, even for a final fantasy game.


I'm convinced their goal is to destroy the final fantasy series

first the ocd flower-pot thing made it seem like the developers for this game are trying to be the less talented howard hughes or something. now with the hipster-emo clothing as battle armor... i feel like it's a big joke


Edit: Found some DLC content....

 

[Rey]

I just thought I'd throw it out here because SE responded to backlash on this. Dan Seto (SE Staff) on the official FFXV forums said this: "Making games is not easy and sometimes you have to change things to make them work and this can be on a practical level or thematic level. Don't confuse a vision and a concept though as they are two very different things.
With a game the size and scale of FFXV we also have a certain level of responsibility to be culturally sensitive. Tabata-san doesn't say anything about removing the Reaper theme, only it's something we can't push and have replaced. One would assume he means changing it in a way that makes it acceptable in all countries while returning the meaning/essence. If you really want me to, I can try asking him to clarify this with any short comments you have."


SE really does care about FFXV and their fans, but if Tabata cannot answer, at least they still try. But yeah hopefully we will get an update on this soon enough, but if not it will probably be explored in a later ATR. If any of you care about FFXV, I suggest joining the FFXV forums and giving feedback, but that is just my opinion. It can get bad over there sometimes because there are many debates, but hey at least it is helpful to know that SE is responding to certain topics, right? Just my two cents.

Source: Official FFXV forums

 

[Razberry Knight]

What does it mean for black to be a special color? Couldn't they have come up with something better? ughh! The game isn't looking do dark to me. I've seen absolutely nothing dark so far.


I've seen gothic inspired, but not full on dark and sad.




25% done doesn't really mean anything to me. That just says they didn't work on it for those 10 years. They still confirmed that the concept was complete by 2011. and whats worst is that the push for it to change wasn't because it wasn't complete, it was because they wanted to turn it into 15.

Versus wasn't complete based on evolution. it was modified and cut up due to change in plans. Which again, Nomura conveniently left.

 

[Linnaete]

It's anti-hype. I've never seen anything like this before. You just don't rally excitement for your game by making comparisons to its earlier conceptual incarnation and stating what has been removed from it on the way over to the current version. I think this guy just has to stop talking. I appreciate more openness, but they are absolutely terrible at this. Their current PR strategy is so baffling that even the most excited of fans must be scratching their heads.

I mean...fine if you wish to essentially and pre-emptively self-censor, in case countries like China get all sensitive about the depiction of skeletons or whatever in their media (apparently why they changed the Ascians in FFXIV from their original 1.0 skeletal forms to identikit men in robes), because the need to sell double-digit millions is probably in the memo from the executives. Still, a bummer that they feel they have to play it so safe with a mainline title that it cannot be anything more than a T-rating.

 

[Razberry Knight]

It's anti-hype. I've never seen anything like this before. You just don't rally excitement for your game by making comparisons to its earlier conceptual incarnation and stating what has been removed from it on the way over to the current version. I think this guy just has to stop talking. I appreciate more openness, but they are absolutely terrible at this. Their current PR strategy is so baffling that even the most excited of fans must be scratching their heads.

I mean...fine if you wish to essentially and pre-emptively self-censor, in case countries like China get all sensitive about the depiction of skeletons or whatever in their media (apparently why they changed the Ascians in FFXIV from their original 1.0 skeletal forms to identikit men in robes), because the need to sell double-digit millions is probably in the memo from the executives. Still, a bummer that they feel they have to play it so safe with a mainline title that it cannot be anything more than a T-rating.

Their whole PR is horrible because they have to make Versus into XV. God, i dont even want to talk to the developers. They are just making things look worst. Self-censorship isn't bad. I've seen plenty of games and tv shows do it. But disguising that censorship is good. Here, they're flat out telling us there was a concept back in the days of versus and in order to sell more.

currently speaking with a group in Line who have actually talked about the changes so far and have given mixed answers.

 

[Rey]

Their whole PR is horrible because they have to make Versus into XV. God, i dont even want to talk to the developers. They are just making things look worst. Self-censorship isn't bad. I've seen plenty of games and tv shows do it. But disguising that censorship is good. Here, they're flat out telling us there was a concept back in the days of versus and in order to sell more.

I do not think that is fair to say about Square Enix when they have been working so hard on this game. I do not know what you mean by "make versus into XV" but I am guessing you have all the evidence that versus elements have mostly been scrapped, despite Tabata saying otherwise. Can I have your magic ball? I would love to prophesy the fate of XV like you. How are they making things look worse? If anything, FF XV has a much better vision and is easily more fleshed out when compared to a paltry development project like versus that only achieved 25% completion rate in years and years. I think you do not understand how things work, Razberry. Tabata is saying that the Reaper theme has changed from what it was in Versus, not that it has been completely removed. In addition, the crest of Lucis is a Skull still like when it was called versus. I will give a few examples that it may still be in.

NOTE: The colour black may be a new indication for the death theme.



1) Painting at the end of the Duscae demo.

2. Skulls

3) Luna painting at the end of Duscae depicting the invasion of Insomnia.

These are all recent images and you can clearly see the theme of "death" still exists.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I do not think that is fair to say about Square Enix when they have been working so hard on this game. I do not know what you mean by "make versus into XV" but I am guessing you have all the evidence that versus elements have mostly been scrapped, despite Tabata saying otherwise. Can I have your magic ball? I would love to prophesy the fate of XV like you. How are they making things look worse? If anything, FF XV has a much better vision and is easily more fleshed out when compared to a paltry development project like versus that only achieved 25% completion rate in years and years. I think you do not understand how things work, Razberry. Tabata is saying that the Reaper theme has changed from what it was in Versus, not that it has been completely removed. In addition, the crest of Lucis is a Skull still like when it was called versus. I will give a few examples that it may still be in.

NOTE: The colour black may be a new indication for the death theme.



1) Painting at the end of the Duscae demo.

2. Skulls

3) Luna painting at the end of Duscae depicting the invasion of Insomnia.

These are all recent images and you can clearly see the theme of "death" still exists.

Final fantasy XV is really nothing without Versus. That's just flat out STUPIDITY to even think XV is loads better than versus just because that's the decision Square enix says.


I'm not a slave to square enix word. And I do see them working hard. But so does every developer out there. Very few who don't get called out on it.


Also why even remove it just for ratings if everything else will remain. SE is just doing unnecessary precautions. And even then Square enix just tells us things that have changed, not what has evolved from Xv. So how can you die hard blind fanboys ever say XV is better than versus if you know XV is built on versus' concept, but modified.

How is this a good answer? Square enix should defend it, not it's petty fans.

 

[Linnaete]

Insane idea of mine:

FFXV is essentially a completely brand new mainline title anyway that we treat as having been announced in 2013 rather than in 2006 (because Versus and FFXV are essentially two completely different things bar some same characters, slight motifs and other superficial similarities). So they may as well have scrapped everything Versus-related and started over from scratch for FFXV, which they essentially have done anyway, from a pure developmental standpoint. Proper development of the game concurrent with the yet-to-be-finished Luminous Engine for current consoles only genuinely began a few years back, after all.

Versus, if they really wanted to salvage it somehow, could have been passed on to another developer and fashioned into whatever Reaper-worshipping, gore-filled dark epic saga Nomura might have originally had in mind. Kojima's Metal Gear Solid: Rising hit a wall and he eventually passed it on to Platinum Games to salvage some kind of playable game from the car crash given to them. You get the benefit of a spinoff game that would not need to drastically alter its themes to comply with a T-rated ratings standard (as Type-0 has shown); one that would not need to be sold everywhere in hopes of selling double-digit millions to make back on the insane amount of money that has been poured into something like FFXV; a game that if you find the right competent external developer to handle, may have even come out; and a game that can exist and satisfy old Versus fans without having to make me endure all these years of Noctis and co. and hearing Tabata's team weakly attempt to explain on a regular basis why X and Y from Versus had to be aborted.

 

[The Witch]

I do not think that is fair to say about Square Enix when they have been working so hard on this game. I do not know what you mean by "make versus into XV" but I am guessing you have all the evidence that versus elements have mostly been scrapped, despite Tabata saying otherwise. Can I have your magic ball? I would love to prophesy the fate of XV like you. How are they making things look worse? If anything, FF XV has a much better vision and is easily more fleshed out when compared to a paltry development project like versus that only achieved 25% completion rate in years and years. I think you do not understand how things work, Razberry. Tabata is saying that the Reaper theme has changed from what it was in Versus, not that it has been completely removed. In addition, the crest of Lucis is a Skull still like when it was called versus. I will give a few examples that it may still be in.

NOTE: The colour black may be a new indication for the death theme.



1) Painting at the end of the Duscae demo.

2. Skulls

3) Luna painting at the end of Duscae depicting the invasion of Insomnia.

These are all recent images and you can clearly see the theme of "death" still exists.

Wow... that's pretty cool. I like the 'black color' thing now. I just wish the clothes weren't so ridiculous. Can you tell me what's going on in the picture with all the 'heavenly' people? I'd be lying if I said it didn't intrigue me

 

[Linnaete]

Wow... that's pretty cool. I like the 'black color' thing now. I just wish the clothes weren't so ridiculous. Can you tell me what's going on in the picture with all the 'heavenly' people? I'd be lying if I said it didn't intrigue me

Someone else can probably do a better job of it than I can, because I haven't analysed it to the mad extent that FFXV fans have, but the gist of it is in this poem:

"O'er rotted Soil, under blighted Sky,
A dread Plague the Wicked has wrought

In the Light of the Gods, Sword-Sword at his Side,
'Gainst the Dark the King's battle is fought

From the Heavens high, to the Blessed below,
Shines the Beam of a Peace long besought

Long live thy Line and these Stones divine,
For the Night when All comes to Naught"

​

"blighted sky" and "dread Plague" = something to do with a blood moon. The land will soon drown in darkness as days shorten and nights grow perpetually longer

"Wicked" = whatever fundamental evil is in the game, so they're presumably the hellish monstrosities at the bottom of the portrait with swords pointed at them, with what looks like damned souls, demonic gargoyles and a very Cthulhu-like Ultros(?)

"Light of the Gods" = presumably the goddess at the top, who is also the goddess of the logo. Given Luna's role as an oracle whose mission is to stop the plague from leaving the world in total blackness, she'll have something to do with this as well

"'Gainst the Dark the King's battle is fought" = there is a pic from the last Active Time Report of a younger King Regis (Noctis' papa) and his friends on the battlefield, so I'll hazard a guess and say this is FFXV's own alluding to its own preceding 4 Warriors of Light

"the Blessed below" = Noctis and friends - the ones in the middle?

"Long live thy Line and these Stones divine" = the sacredness of the Lucis kingdom's royal line according to prophecy and something about crystals

Additionally, the figures to the left and right hand side of the painting seem to be the summons in human form. You have Bahamut who looks like the devil on the left with Leviathan (who is female in this game). On the right is Ramuh, Shiva and Titan. They're all on clouds, so they're not the damned and the Wicked below. As they will help Noctis and friends eventually, I suppose it makes sense that they're like semi-divinity.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Insane idea of mine:

FFXV is essentially a completely brand new mainline title anyway that we treat as having been announced in 2013 rather than in 2006 (because Versus and FFXV are essentially two completely different things bar some same characters, slight motifs and other superficial similarities). So they may as well have scrapped everything Versus-related and started over from scratch for FFXV, which they essentially have done anyway, from a pure developmental standpoint. Proper development of the game concurrent with the yet-to-be-finished Luminous Engine for current consoles only genuinely began a few years back, after all.

Versus, if they really wanted to salvage it somehow, could have been passed on to another developer and fashioned into whatever Reaper-worshipping, gore-filled dark epic saga Nomura might have originally had in mind. Kojima's Metal Gear Solid: Rising hit a wall and he eventually passed it on to Platinum Games to salvage some kind of playable game from the car crash given to them. You get the benefit of a spinoff game that would not need to drastically alter its themes to comply with a T-rated ratings standard (as Type-0 has shown); one that would not need to be sold everywhere in hopes of selling double-digit millions to make back on the insane amount of money that has been poured into something like FFXV; a game that if you find the right competent external developer to handle, may have even come out; and a game that can exist and satisfy old Versus fans without having to make me endure all these years of Noctis and co. and hearing Tabata's team weakly attempt to explain on a regular basis why X and Y from Versus had to be aborted.

From a pure development standpoint yes. But the concepts, characters and such are kept but continue to be modified by tabata and on a whim.

What still bothers me is how Tabata can answer and then shy away from a real answer.

 

[Rey]

Final fantasy XV is really nothing without Versus. That's just flat out STUPIDITY to even think XV is loads better than versus just because that's the decision Square enix says.


I'm not a slave to square enix word. And I do see them working hard. But so does every developer out there. Very few who don't get called out on it.


Also why even remove it just for ratings if everything else will remain. SE is just doing unnecessary precautions. And even then Square enix just tells us things that have changed, not what has evolved from Xv. So how can you die hard blind fanboys ever say XV is better than versus if you know XV is built on versus' concept, but modified.

How is this a good answer? Square enix should defend it, not it's petty fans.

You cannot be serious, surely. I never said it was better just because SE said it. I think you need to get your eyes checked but FFXV evolved from it. Normally, if you liked versus, then you would not hate on XV so much. XV is a full shell of versus with more emphasis on character development, a better story, better open world, etc. What did we get out of Versus's trailers? Oh, right we got a clash with Noctis and Stella, and Noctis talking to Stella but with no voices. Wow, lots of character development there! The game was in MAJOR DEVELOPMENT HELL. I cannot stress it enough to you. Versus has a done script but nothing else. It had problems that never saw an end. I mean sure, you can argue that Versus's character switching is a better feature than only playing as Noctis in FFXV, but I don't think Noctis had that many abilities back then. Now that Noctis is an all-around fighter that can use any weapons of his friends, there is no use for character switching unless you play as Luna at one point in the story. Nonetheless, versus ideas still exist, and we will know a lot more in the next ATR. I say hold your opinion until then. What do you mean remove it just for ratings? I just linked you THREE-FOUR images that may indicate the death theme is still there. I'm not sure why you are still "doubting" it at this point. Right now, what I believe is that black in FFXV represents the manifestation of death or night. " So how can you die hard blind fanboys ever say XV is better than versus if you know XV is built on versus' concept, but modified" <---- LOL


Razberry, what are you even talking about? FFXV has TONS more elements than versus. We saw much more of XV than versus and it has only been a few years. I think in the world we live in, people prefer trailers and reports when compared to the crap info we got on versus rarely.

Wow... that's pretty cool. I like the 'black color' thing now. I just wish the clothes weren't so ridiculous. Can you tell me what's going on in the picture with all the 'heavenly' people? I'd be lying if I said it didn't intrigue me

The clothes aren't really that ridiculous, imo. It shows a complete loyalty to the Kingdom of Lucis. Each guy in the party has skull motifs and black is a colour that is special in the game, not just their outfits. Also, I'm not sure why you are worried since you will likely be able to change the outfits

I can't be bothered to explain it but here is an image to save me the explanation.

You have the armies in the back (Nilfheim and Lucis) I think, the 4 party members in the middle, Etro on top, Ultros, Ramuh, Shiva, Titan, etc. The painting is depicting the many deities in the game that will either help Noctis or go against him. Etro is on top because the Kingdom of Lucis worships her, I believe. In addition, there is a grim reaper summon in the painting right next to Leviathan.


I look back to this image in Versus

Stella is staring at Etro but a grim reaper is holding the mural.

I think Lucis worship the grim reaper like summon and we can even see it in the invasion of insomnia in the background. Although there seem to be MANY summons in the painting that is not going to be true in the final game. Many of these deities are sub deities and we only know that a few deities have a major role in the final game. We know that Titan and Ramuh do, so far. If I were to take a guess at the others, I would say Bahamut, Shiva, and the Grim reaper ish summon + Leviathan. Tabata has said that the important deities have MAJOR roles in the game.

From a pure development standpoint yes. But the concepts, characters and such are kept but continue to be modified by tabata and on a whim.

What still bothers me is how Tabata can answer and then shy away from a real answer.

Quit deluding yourself. He isn't shying away at anything. He told us that the death theme is modified in FFXV because in versus it may have been a little too much in other countries. It doesn't mean the theme is now for kids.

 

[Razberry Knight]

You cannot be serious, surely. I never said it was better just because SE said it.

There's a tendency of "this is the official answer, lets stick with it" even though conflicting answers have came across multiple times with no proper clarification. Remember? You got the answer, but never followed up if the answers given were consistent with each other.

I think you need to get your eyes checked but FFXV evolved from it. Normally, if you liked versus, then you would not hate on XV so much. XV is a full shell of versus with more emphasis on character development, a better story, better open world, etc.

more emphasis on character development, better story and better open world? Based on what? Did you know Versus's story from beginning to end? did you know it was going to be an open world or not?

XV was still Versus when it was announced, at its core. XV wasn't going to change the story, the world, and character development emphasis back when Nomura was still director. In fact, he was still pushing for the "epic Versus" series.

It was when he left that the changes were done. So saying like "XV is better because back then all we had was trailers", XV was still versus at the time.

What did we get out of Versus's trailers? Oh, right we got a clash with Noctis and Stella, and Noctis talking to Stella but with no voices. Wow, lots of character development there!

I already answered this up above, but it seems shallow to even compare trailers.

The game was in MAJOR DEVELOPMENT HELL. I cannot stress it enough to you.

Here's something you should know: Versus was not in development hell, there was a decision to wait for next gen console because Versus's vision couldn't handle last gen's specs. There was a hint of this when Square Enix was upset that Sony wasn't pushing for a ps4 release until a couple of years. The development hell became because of the decision to turn it into XV. Or rather, the development hell came after realizing that the name change meant more than just a name change.

If Versus remained with the same name (and even throw away the 13), none of the major changes were going to be pushed.

Versus has a done script but nothing else. It had problems that never saw an end. I mean sure, you can argue that Versus's character switching is a better feature than only playing as Noctis in FFXV, but I don't think Noctis had that many abilities back then. Now that Noctis is an all-around fighter that can use any weapons of his friends, there is no use for character switching unless you play as Luna at one point in the story. Nonetheless, versus ideas still exist, and we will know a lot more in the next ATR. I say hold your opinion until then. What do you mean remove it just for ratings? I just linked you THREE-FOUR images that may indicate the death theme is still there. I'm not sure why you are still "doubting" it at this point. Right now, what I believe is that black in FFXV represents the manifestation of death or night. " So how can you die hard blind fanboys ever say XV is better than versus if you know XV is built on versus' concept, but modified" <---- LOL

The script for Versus was planned for XV, and the problem for the script came after the decision to make it one complete game. Versus and XV were the same thing with no variation whatsoever. But those images just show how the reaper theme is an aesthetic, not an official

Razberry, what are you even talking about? FFXV has TONS more elements than versus. We saw much more of XV than versus and it has only been a few years. I think in the world we live in, people prefer trailers and reports when compared to the crap info we got on versus rarely.

But that's not exactly Versus's fault. The concept wasn't flawed, just not designed for a main title. And this is what infuriates me about XV fans versus Versus fans. Its a completely different mentality.

XV has "more" elements than versus? But Versus fan want the core elements to be the main driving force. You're not convincing me that V is better, because you keep saying things that keeps me away.

The clothes aren't really that ridiculous, imo. It shows a complete loyalty to the Kingdom of Lucis. Each guy in the party has skull motifs and black is a colour that is special in the game, not just their outfits. Also, I'm not sure why you are worried since you will likely be able to change the outfits

Where is the skull motif? If we're talking about the crest, they don't have it anywhere near their clothes. Or even an official military ranking on it.

people give an answer with a smile, i tend to think their trolling me. But the official answer is that they are all wearing official garb based on their designation. Meaning each one is from a different faction or department of the kingdom and wear different clothes. Prompto doesn't look like he's an official at all. Gladiolus doesn't look like a soldier either, or
I can't be bothered to explain it but here is an image to save me the explanation.



I look back to this image in Versus

Stella is staring at Etro but a grim reaper is holding the mural.

I think Lucis worship the grim reaper like summon and we can even see it in the invasion of insomnia in the background. Although there seem to be MANY summons in the painting that is not going to be true in the final game. Many of these deities are sub deities and we only know that a few deities have a major role in the final game. We know that Titan and Ramuh do, so far. If I were to take a guess at the others, I would say Bahamut, Shiva, and the Grim reaper ish summon + Leviathan. Tabata has said that the important deities have MAJOR roles in the game. [/quote] You're rambling...you are making comparisons, but not leading to anything. that picture of Etro is no longer there, in fact XV is no longer part of the FNC anymore, and Etro being the driving force. Keep in mind, that scene is gone in XV.

Quit deluding yourself. He isn't shying away at anything. He told us that the death theme is modified in FFXV because in versus it may have been a little too much in other countries. It doesn't mean the theme is now for kids.

Note; Tabata when referring to XV and Versus, he never called it an evolution. He never said "we are pushing even harder on the same themes that Versus had", no, everytime Versus was mentioned, they say, change, or modify.

 

[Rey]

There's a tendency of "this is the official answer, lets stick with it" even though conflicting answers have came across multiple times with no proper clarification. Remember? You got the answer, but never followed up if the answers given were consistent with each other.


more emphasis on character development, better story and better open world? Based on what? Did you know Versus's story from beginning to end? did you know it was going to be an open world or not?

XV was still Versus when it was announced, at its core. XV wasn't going to change the story, the world, and character development emphasis back when Nomura was still director. In fact, he was still pushing for the "epic Versus" series.

It was when he left that the changes were done. So saying like "XV is better because back then all we had was trailers", XV was still versus at the time.


I already answered this up above, but it seems shallow to even compare trailers.



Here's something you should know: Versus was not in development hell, there was a decision to wait for next gen console because Versus's vision couldn't handle last gen's specs. There was a hint of this when Square Enix was upset that Sony wasn't pushing for a ps4 release until a couple of years. The development hell became because of the decision to turn it into XV. Or rather, the development hell came after realizing that the name change meant more than just a name change.

If Versus remained with the same name (and even throw away the 13), none of the major changes were going to be pushed.


The script for Versus was planned for XV, and the problem for the script came after the decision to make it one complete game. Versus and XV were the same thing with no variation whatsoever. But those images just show how the reaper theme is an aesthetic, not an official


But that's not exactly Versus's fault. The concept wasn't flawed, just not designed for a main title. And this is what infuriates me about XV fans versus Versus fans. Its a completely different mentality.

XV has "more" elements than versus? But Versus fan want the core elements to be the main driving force. You're not convincing me that V is better, because you keep saying things that keeps me away.



Where is the skull motif? If we're talking about the crest, they don't have it anywhere near their clothes. Or even an official military ranking on it.

people give an answer with a smile, i tend to think their trolling me. But the official answer is that they are all wearing official garb based on their designation. Meaning each one is from a different faction or department of the kingdom and wear different clothes. Prompto doesn't look like he's an official at all. Gladiolus doesn't look like a soldier either.

Razberry, when I look at your posts, I see a huge hater of Final Fantasy XV. You just cannot take what anyone says as a good answer. You think you are smarter than me or anyone else on the site. You are above the crown; you are the intellectual we should strive to be like, the one who has all the answers to the development of versus into XV. You hate Square Enix, but ever thought that your answers MAY be wrong? Normally, it is vital to trust the official word of Square Enix since they are the head developers, but you seem to think there is confliction in the official word, when you can't even prove that yourself. If you will not accept the game for what it is, I can't really help you there. If you cannot see that Versus was in development hell, then I can't help you. For the purpose of discussion in this thread, I will still answer your other points.

I. Versus only had the script completed and did not go into "full production" until very late. I believe it was 2011, and that is when it ULTIMATELY was being developed into XV. Versus's gameplay looked linear to me. Nomura said you could go anywhere you want in versus's terrain but there would be a limit eventually. I remember this from an early interview so please correct me if I am wrong. Second, versus's story was terribly incomplete and incomprehensible. We did not know what was going on. Some characters like Stella never had a voice. Some characters were left very ambiguous in trailers, and the gameplay, while different, looked incomplete. That is when they decided to port it to ps4, correct? I think versus was such an ambitious project that fans desired far too much from it. Now, it is Final Fantasy XV and you are going to have to deal with that. Redeeming a Kingdom once lost was not really a focus in versus, but it is in XV now. Tabata could have told Nomura to fuck off and scrap all his stuff, but he did not, because he knows fans were craving versus a long time. Tabata can change things as he sees fit. For instance, the car in versus may have been a major point in development, but we never saw that from versus, and now in XV we do. We knew it would be an open world, but FFXV is SEAMLESS, from what we see in trailers.

II. How do YOU know that if Nomura never left the project that the game would still be the same? We found out eventually that the project was too much for Nomura. It was an inevitable change. No, he was not pushing for the epic versus series. He said he wanted sequels BEFORE the lead changed to Tabata. No, versus was indeed in development hell. You do not announce a game in 2006 and only reach full force in 2011. YOU DO NOT DO THAT. It was evident that even if the console change didn't happen, that the game had major problems. The script of versus was finished early. I remember reading an article about it years ago. However, a script does not guarantee that everything else was going well. Like I said, versus had major problems and now XV is here to rectify that.

III. No, nobody can convince you. We all tried hard enough.

IV. Find all the skulls in this image before you say no.

V. Gladio looks like a soldier to me. He has a huge arse sword, looks very buff, and masculine, and he has scars. The ENTIRE POINT of Prompto is for him to feel like an outsider. He is silly and looks like he is not related to the royalty of Lucis. In addition, Prompto looks like he is jealous of the main group. He might turn into a traitor or something.


No, I know the scene is out of XV. That is why I SAID I LOOK BACK TO VERSUS. Sorry for the caps, but it helps you understand. I know that picture of Etro is no longer there, but she is not scrapped as she is in the painting along with the reaper. I remember Tabata saying that FFXV will explore the characters much more in a way that versus hasn't.

 

[Dionysos]

This image is beautiful.

Where did the initial stab at guessing who the figures represent come from? Was there a comment by someone from SE about this?

I've read some slightly different interpretations. Is the mermaid figure Leviathan, or is she Siren, for example? Is the serpent just a random serpent from Hell, or is it Leviathan?

Is that really Ifrit at the bottom, or just a hellish demon? My guess is just a random demon since there are more than one of them. There are 4 or more demons that look virtually identical in appearance (humanoid, with horns), but in different poses. The Medusa figure is not necessarily Medusa herself, but just a gorgon representing the sorts of creatures you could expect to encounter in Hell.

Is this truly a new form of Ultros? Or is that wishful thinking and it is instead Kraken (another recurring FF staple which is usually a more intimidating foe)?

I'm interested in the Reaper. Is this going to be an originally named entity? Or is it going to be a version of another FF summon / deity / monster that is already established? Is it Hades?

I think, as can be expected, people have tried desperately to figure out what is depicted, and this has lead to some hasty labeling.

A fascinating piece of artwork nonetheless, and I am curious to find out what it means, if it means as much as it appears to mean.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Razberry, when I look at your posts, I see a huge hater of Final Fantasy XV. You just cannot take what anyone says as a good answer. You think you are smarter than me or anyone else on the site. You are above the crown; you are the intellectual we should strive to be like, the one who has all the answers to the development of versus into XV. You hate Square Enix, but ever thought that your answers MAY be wrong? Normally, it is vital to trust the official word of Square Enix since they are the head developers, but you seem to think there is confliction in the official word, when you can't even prove that yourself.

When you listen to the answers given, there is a level of "truth" and "official". With Square Enix (and this includes Eidos as well) they are persistent on giving an official answer. From what the progress of Final Fantasy XV was from 2013 to 2014 was that A) Final Fantasy XV is just a name change and nothing more. B) Still part of the FNC, and C) Was pushed for next gen to push the look and feel Versus was going for.

I have proven time and time again, but the moment i bring it up, no one says a damn thing. You all run off and don't want to bother. So maybe if you want to prove me to think that i'm wrong, actually prove me wrong.

I. Versus only had the script completed and did not go into "full production" until very late. I believe it was 2011, and that is when it ULTIMATELY was being developed into XV. Versus's gameplay looked linear to me. Nomura said you could go anywhere you want in versus's terrain but there would be a limit eventually. I remember this from an early interview so please correct me if I am wrong.

Still forgetting the most important piece of information: Versus was XV. At 2013, we knew that Versus was XV. all it was a name change and push for next-gen tech. That's all. Everything else would remain the same.

We saw only very few key scenes from Versus, but look back at the trailers and you'll see something different.

For the record, Final Fantasy XV car traveling will definitely be linear as well. And its going to be heavily linear when getting from point A to point B. Even the key action scenes were linear. When leviathan attacked, most of that is following the path presented. The only difference is that we got to have a demo for it to explore around and see how non-linear it is. But the trailers all suggest its linear, no matter what.

Second, versus's story was terribly incomplete and incomprehensible.

Right here, this is where you're talking out of your butt. You have no proof of that. Not even Tabata said that.

We did not know what was going on. Some characters like Stella never had a voice. Some characters were left very ambiguous in trailers, and the gameplay, while different, looked incomplete.

There's just a huge flaw in your thinking when it comes to Versus. Versus didn't hit full production in those times, and because it wasn't able to hit full production at the time, things like voice-acting and such weren't even concrete yet. But what they were able to show they were able to talk about. Granted, Antagonists are still a mystery even up to now. But also keep in mind that Nomura has been wanting to talk about Versus even before then but was never given the go-ahead to do so.

Again, you're treating Versus was gone the moment it became XV. and that's simply not the case. What we saw in 2013 was Versus, it was just renamed to XV. At the time it was still part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis project, it still had Stella. It was during 2013 - 2014 that changes were made. Stella in 2013 trailer was gone, but Luna was added in. King Regis was redesigned and couldn't reveal at the time because it was a "spoiler" (and now we know why, which to be honest is a stupid reason).

That is when they decided to port it to ps4, correct? I think versus was such an ambitious project that fans desired far too much from it. Now, it is Final Fantasy XV and you are going to have to deal with that. Redeeming a Kingdom once lost was not really a focus in versus, but it is in XV now. Tabata could have told Nomura to fuck off and scrap all his stuff, but he did not, because he knows fans were craving versus a long time. Tabata can change things as he sees fit. For instance, the car in versus may have been a major point in development, but we never saw that from versus, and now in XV we do. We knew it would be an open world, but FFXV is SEAMLESS, from what we see in trailers.

I'm going to repeat myself....Versus and Xv were the same thing at one point. There was no issues with the plot, story, or anything. The change happened in 2015 when XV and versus no longer the same thing. Tabata couldn't say "fuck off" and scrap all his stuff. Company wouldn't allow for such an expensive game to be delayed even further. Keynote: FFXV is more expensive than GTA5 and

II. How do YOU know that if Nomura never left the project that the game would still be the same?

The same way i know that my best friend who knows each other so well wont write the same story the exact same way even if they have the same notes, endings and such. You see there's something important that people must take into consideration. "Vision" and "Concept" are two different things. Concepts can be said by words or script, even done by graphics and gameplay features. But "vision" vision is using the way you perceive it. NOmura and Tabata will not have the exact same vision, is Tabata trying to share that vision? Well, if he was, why did he feel to modify King Regis so late in the design if Nomura didn't think it was a problem? These are things that Tabata does that outright admits he want to turn this into his vision.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/932981-final-fantasy-xv/72288824

^^An example of hwo the change in director shows difference in presentation.

We found out eventually that the project was too much for Nomura. It was an inevitable change.

Tabata could've simply asked Nomura, but he never did. Not once. This tells me Tabata wanted to push for the change regardless. He asked Nojima, who if you read his quote carefully wasn't part of the revision. Keep in mind, different minds, different visions. Nomura could've "evolved" the concept into one complete. But Tabata isn't even admitting that he's making XV into an evolved state, everything is "modify" and "change".

No, he was not pushing for the epic versus series. He said he wanted sequels BEFORE the lead changed to Tabata.

And now, he isn't getting that, because the choice to rename it into the main series requires the series to be closed by one game.

No, versus was indeed in development hell. You do not announce a game in 2006 and only reach full force in 2011. YOU DO NOT DO THAT. It was evident that even if the console change didn't happen, that the game had major problems.

This was due to a lot of things, push for Final Fantasy XIII series, Kingdom hearts Birth by sleep/ 358 days/ coded. push for Type-0, and Dissidia. A lot of games to make Square Enix stay afloat due to several issues going on. This was also previous director's fault too.

The script of versus was finished early. I remember reading an article about it years ago. However, a script does not guarantee that everything else was going well. Like I said, versus had major problems and now XV is here to rectify that.

Script was bound to be modified, sure. That is true. We were bound to see some slight modifications.

But we're not talking about more than just "hey, lets modify someones backstory". We're talking about a modifying the story altogether because the title "XV" demands a closed story. (This is the official answer).

The reason for the large-scale changes was for the sake of moving XV into a complete story, not an open-ended one that allowed room for a series (World of the epic Versus)

III. No, nobody can convince you. We all tried hard enough.

Well the problem is you repeat the same stuff that just doesn't make sense or completely unfair that its not even a valid point.

Some of the things you say is making Versus look worst than what it really was. Its as if you treat it as the final product, and thats just unfair (and you know it). And whats worst is you try to defend those "versus" elements by saying they'll remain in XV. And that's where you fail the hardest. The truth is that Versus and XV were ultimately the same game, with the same vision, by the same director. But when that person director stepped down, co-director became director, things changed drastically.

IV. Find all the skulls in this image before you say no.

Skull motif =/= Reaper motif (Are all pirates reaper worshipers?) The skull personally looks modified and rather over simplified. Something suggests that wasn't the official design. Also, this is something that just didn't really need to be modified, even for the proper rating that they want (and in other countries). We're talking about Pegi 17 at most.

V. Gladio looks like a soldier to me. He has a huge arse sword, looks very buff, and masculine, and he has scars. The ENTIRE POINT of Prompto is for him to feel like an outsider. He is silly and looks like he is not related to the royalty of Lucis. In addition, Prompto looks like he is jealous of the main group. He might turn into a traitor or something.

We're talking about Attire. Thats the whole point. Forget about "buff" "masculine" "scars" and especially 'Huge arse sword". The official military uniform is what each one of these people are wearing (and Tabata did not exclude Prompto).

No, I know the scene is out of XV. That is why I SAID I LOOK BACK TO VERSUS. Sorry for the caps, but it helps you understand. I know that picture of Etro is no longer there, but she is not scrapped as she is in the painting along with the reaper. I remember Tabata saying that FFXV will explore the characters much more in a way that versus hasn't.

That painting is gone, and Etro has not once been mentioned. And it has since been confirmed that the game is no longer part of the FNC project. The goddess shown appears to be a new goddess. but only time will tell once Tabata confirms who this Goddess is.