Were the characters of FF9 flat?

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

I have to say that I found them to be. There wasn't that much change and they all fit into perfect little squares like Zidane was your typical lovable rouge, and Dagger was your typical floormat white mage. So, I don't think it had very original characters at all.

Now don't me wrong, FF9 is one of my favorite FFs, but I just think the characters weren't really three dimensional at all. They were rather predictable to me. That doesn't mean that I don't like them or didn't have fun. I just don't think they were ever fully fleshed out.

So what do you think?

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

Not at all. They all had detailed backstories, reasons for doing what they were doing, and you were able to like most of them.

Of course, Quina, Admarant, and Steiner probably had the weakest out of all of them. I can see why you would say that about them.

However, Zidane, Vivi, Garnet, Freya, and Eiko all have sufficient backstories and quirks about them to where I don't see them as 2-D at all.

 

[Valvalis]

Of course, Quina, Admarant, and Steiner probably had the weakest out of all of them. I can see why you would say that about them.

I actually thought Amarant was refreshingly unusual. He seemed to be somewhat obsessed with Zidane despite being the typical roguish character otherwise, and I was never really sure how he was going to react to things as a result; he seemed rather conflicted at times. And I think there would've been more to Steiner if they'd given it more time, but most of the scenes he appeared in were with Garnet and she was given much more attention by the storytellers. And for me the Steiner/Beatrix thing was really interesting to watch too, because it made the game feel really thorough; by contrast, in something like X, for example, you have absolutely no inkling of any feelings between Wakka and Lulu and suddenly

Spoiler

they're an item in X-2

. And then of course with Quina, he does have a one-track mind, but his strong desire to observe the traditions of his people seems to give him at least a little more depth than a Hoover

However, Zidane, Vivi, Garnet, Freya, and Eiko all have sufficient backstories and quirks about them to where I don't see them as 2-D at all.

Vivi, Freya, and Eiko yes, but apart from learning of their true identities Zidane and Dagger had an extremely predictable 2-D presence and relationship. And though I really liked them as characters and I did enjoy the way it was presented, tbh it reminded me too much of Aladdin for me to consider it 100% original. :/

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

Well, if you think at it from a story telling point, I can't view them as 2-D in the slightest. Garnet, a Princess that wants to run away from home by enlisting the help of thieves because she wants to stop her mother being controlled by Kuja from going to war and killing people. On the way she learns that her life is sheltered and has been meaningless so far. She then wants to learn about her true origins while having everything that she knows and loves taken from her by Kuja. She then takes control over her destiny and becomes Queen only to have her kingdom ruined later by Kuja.

I can't view that as 2-D at all. Although, I also can't see how you didn't see the Wakka and Lulu thing coming. It was pretty apparent throughout the game.

Zidane, however, I can get your point. He really doesn't have any motives throughout the game other than wanting to get into Garnet's panties. However, when he figures out who he is, and what he was made for, he's about as 3-D as the rest of the cast.

 

[Valvalis]

Well, if you think at it from a story telling point, I can't view them as 2-D in the slightest. Garnet, a Princess that wants to run away from home by enlisting the help of thieves because she wants to stop her mother being controlled by Kuja from going to war and killing people. On the way she learns that her life is sheltered and has been meaningless so far. She then wants to learn about her true origins while having everything that she knows and loves taken from her by Kuja. She then takes control over her destiny and becomes Queen only to have her kingdom ruined later by Kuja.

Well, when you put it that way... I think it's just that the "sweet young princess trying to be strong and deal with crap" theme has been redone way too much in the entertainment media scene in general. And Garnet's story was certainly more interesting than most, but I just couldn't get away from that feeling as I played through it. Maybe it was her personality; I would rather have seen her as somewhat tougher and more unique, though not at the "cold, brooding chick" end of the spectrum either. Something in between would've been good.

Although, I also can't see how you didn't see the Wakka and Lulu thing coming. It was pretty apparent throughout the game.

It was certainly hinted at, and I sort of did (and then obviously at the end), but what I meant was they didn't make a point to show very many private cutscenes between them to show the actual development of this; X was very Tidus/Yuna-centric and they didn't develop the other PCs nearly as well, other than Auron (and much of his backstory is told through optional Jecht Sphere cutscenes). In IX, on the other hand, there was a lot more attention paid to the non-leads and a lot of detail given to their backstories, like you said.

 

[Alak]

Zidane, however, I can get your point. He really doesn't have any motives throughout the game other than wanting to get into Garnet's panties.

Hey, that's as realistic as you can get! lol jk, but he does seem like your typical modern day hero when you look at it like that. I'd say Garnet and Vivi interested me the most. While I do see really good points made by detractors, I still enjoy them the most in this game. The rest of the cast was "meh", though.

 

[Rydia]

I would say the characters from IX were far from flat. And I think Vivi was one of the best developed characters in the series. He went from being afraid of his own death because his life was short to fully accepting his fate by the end of the game.

And I don't get where you get your perfect little squares. Steiner was nothing like your typical warrior like character. Freya was the tough chick, but she was in no way sexy like this character type usually is. (unless you really like rats) Eiko had a big purpose in the game unlike most little kid characters who are there to look cute. And she was certaintly not your typical white mage. I don't there has a been a magic user, or character like Vivi. And Quina was just something else all together.

Dagger was hardly a floormat. She chose to go along with Zidane and co and later she takes on huge responsibility by becoming queen of Alexandria. Everything else has already been said about her in previous posts.

Zidane also goes through character growth as mentioned above. He was also different from other FF leads in that he wasn't afraid to get laid =P

Zidane and Dagger also have one of the best romances in the game. They don't have a love at first sight thing going on like in other FF games. Their relationship takes time to develop. At first Zidane just wanted to get into her pants and Dagger was annoyed by him. but as the game progresses Zidane starts to love her as a person and Dagger grows fond of him. I find their relationship much more believable than any other FF romance.

Armarant and Quina do not develop as much as the other characters. However, Armarant does realize that he needs the others when he injures his foot in that castle lol. And Quina does show anothe side when he explains to Eiko how too cook a meal for everyone. It's not much but it's there.

Wakka and Lulu was just awkward for me. Espeically because Lulu was supposed to marry Wakka's brother. And they just did not seem compatible. They didn't have enough romantic interaction in X to make me like them as a couple.

 

[FF7Destiny]

I don't think they were flat at all, I think they focused on each characters storyline, like why Vivi wonders about who he is, Steiners thoughts about the Queen and what he should do, even Amarant who is ignored some of the time (Even by me) is given a reason to who he is, and how Zidane and him are connected in a way (Think scene in Treno) I think they did very well with the characters. Quina, I'm not so much 100% sure about, I may have forgotten whether there was any deep information surrounding him.

 

[Sultan]

I don't think they were flat at all, I think they focused on each characters storyline, like why Vivi wonders about who he is, Steiners thoughts about the Queen and what he should do, even Amarant who is ignored some of the time (Even by me) is given a reason to who he is, and how Zidane and him are connected in a way (Think scene in Treno) I think they did very well with the characters. Quina, I'm not so much 100% sure about, I may have forgotten whether there was any deep information surrounding him.

I think it's safe to say that Quina was a comic relief character and no more. S/he contributed nothing to the plot and the only useful thing s/he did that progressed the story in any way was finding the entrance to the underground tunnel in the marches.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

I suppose what I was trying to ask (in my normal missed up way) was rather or not the characters were a little cliche. And would still have to say that they were.

Zidane was the typical lovable rouge. He liked the ladies and stole the princess. It fits into the typical rouge story. Zidane and Dagger's romance was cliched. It was the typical poor criminal boy meets princess who wants to run away. I've seen it a hundred times.

Dagger is your typical fantasy!princess. She doesn't know about Kuja at the beginning of the game, she just wants to get away from her mother. It's your typical teenage runaway thing.

Steiner was your typical lovable oaf knight. He made lot's of mistakes, but clearly had a good heart. He's love with Beatrix ring out the typical protector's romance.

Now, I realize that's boiling the characters down to the very basics, but if you do, you see they have particularly cliche bases. However, since I first posted this, I've since decided that not all of the characters of FF9 were like that.

You all pointed out Vivi and I have to agree. But then I don't. His backstory is great and not cliche at all, but if you boil him down, then you have the loyal clueless sidekick.

So, I still have to say the basis for the characters are pretty flat, but most of the time other things come along that remedy this.

 

[Rydia]

For FF? I don't recall there ever being a romance like Zidane and Dagger's. And while there have been other stories like it, they did throw their own twist into it. (Dagger was not born a princess, she was from a summoner villiage, Zidane was an Angel of Death, They were not head over heals in love with each other at first sight.)

The idea is cliche, but a lot of stories are now a days. What matters then is the execution and I feel that IX did it very well.

IX gives hommage to past FF games. Zidane was based off Locke Cole from Final Fantasy VI. If they were going to be cliche in an FF sense, he would have fallen in love with Beatrix (who was based off Celes from VI)

I have to disagree about Steiner too. Most knights in FF are portrayed as very noble and badass. (Cecil, Cyan, do we count Galuf?) I've never seen one in FF that was considered an oaf... And I wouldn't call him lovable during the first part of the game. His romance with Beatrix was different from past relationships, because Beatrix could handle herself quite well and was pretty much a villian in the first part of the game. (She wasn't a kind white mage character that most characters like Steiner would fall in love with)

Vivi, not sure where you got that from. I didn't see him as a clueless side kick character. But maybe we are thinking of two different things.

Really you could find other character's in FF that are cliche.

Squall is pretty much Cloud all over again. The dark brooding hero. And his romance with Rinoa is very cliche. The hot girl falls in love with him. He is in different to her at first, but slowly grows to love her. Then she becomes a typical damsel for Squall to save to further their romance. Irvine is your cool lovable flirty guy. Selphie is your bubbly girl seen in many FF games. (Yuffie, Rikku)

 

[Lethal Hamster]

In my opinion. IX really did have some of the best characters. I don't think any where particulary predictable and all seemed deep and fleshed out excepting Amarant and perhaps obviousley Quina. In addition all characters had a sort of uinique thing, I mean Eiko for instance had an interesting background story and a summon monster moogle in disguise!

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

Sometimes I confuse myself. I guess that I'm not making too much sense. I tend to whine before I think things out.

And now I have admit that I was really wrong! While I still think on some levels, I've seen the characters of FF9 before, I seem to have forgotten that it was supposed to feel a bit that way. Hehe, don't I feel a bit stupid!

I seem to have forgotten quite a bit of stuff that happened in FF9 that involved the characters. Thanks for reminding me, Rydia!

Squall is pretty much Cloud all over again. The dark brooding hero. And his romance with Rinoa is very cliche. The hot girl falls in love with him. He is in different to her at first, but slowly grows to love her. Then she becomes a typical damsel for Squall to save to further their romance. Irvine is your cool lovable flirty guy. Selphie is your bubbly girl seen in many FF games. (Yuffie, Rikku)

Squall isn't anything like Cloud. Cloud had more issues then Squall could think of having. Squall was quiet because he had been hurt by his big sis leaving him. Cloud was hurt because he was making up a life and suffering from Mako Poisoning. Squall was ready to do things for the world for free, Cloud wanted money. But they do have a few personality things in common, but I don't see them as being the same thing over again.

And I don't remember Yuffie or Rikku offering to blow up the president's train with a rocket launcher!

 

[Tyler Breeze]

Gasp!

FFIX featured one of the most detailed and interesting cast of characters I've ever seen in any form of games, shows, etc.

I'll give you Freya. That's about it though. You could liken her personality to watching paint dry, or a cardboard box. Hell, even Alberto Del Rio prior to 2013. That's how boring I found her.

Everybody else was amazing personality wise. I even enjoyed Amarant.