Walmart

[Rydia]

Do you think Walmart is good or bad?

On one hand they drive smaller businesses out of business and they get some of their products from sweat shops.

On the other hand, they sell products at affordable prices to lower income families and they employ millions of people who would other wise be unable or have great difficulty finding a job.

What is your opinion?

 

[Demon]

On one hand they drive smaller businesses out of business...

On the other hand... they employ millions of people who would other wise be unable or have great difficulty finding a job.

See a similarity between these two statements?

I'm not saying they're bad though. But when you use the point that they drive smaller businesses out of business, that means you lose jobs, right?

On the other hand, they sell products at affordable prices

I think they're about the best at that, but there's a bad which comes with being the best. You see it in sports, etc... a team might win a lot of games, but it comes at the cost of others losing.

 

[Rydia]

See a similarity between these two statements?

I'm not saying they're bad though. But when you use the point that they drive smaller businesses out of business, that means you lose jobs, right?

Not quite. The millions that are hiring also include high school drop outs, people with arrest records, people with mental disabilities, and people with low intelligence in general. Many small businesses are not comfortable those with arrest records or drop outs among the others posted.

 

[Valvalis]

It is quite a conundrum because they're willing to hire so many different types of people; however, I think overall I'd have to say they're bad The problem I have is, if you go in to one of their stores and look at the labels on their products (I'm just talking about a U.S. point of view here, since that's all I know about), a lot of them are made in other countries. Which means, when you pay for them, at least some of the profit is leaving your own country, and that's really bad for the economy. So while a cheaper product is good for customers in the short-term, those same customers end up being hurt financially over the long-term, because for them to buy all these imported products is essentially pouring U.S. money into other countries, money that we're not guaranteed to see return to us.

And it's not to say that Walmart is the only store that does this, but they are one of the most popular stores in the U.S.

 

[CassinoChips]

they employ millions of people who would other wise be unable or have great difficulty finding a job.

Except that they then do all they can to pay those employees as little a wage as possible, and doing things like giving them 39-1/2 hour work weeks, and not 40, so they don't go full-time and the company doesn't have to give them benefits.

Do I shop at Wal-Mart? Yes. Money is tight. But we also shop at local farmer's markets and shops that sell local products.

Do I feel a little dirty every time I come out of a Wal-Mart? Yes. Their business practices, as well as their passive-aggressive Southern redneck mentality just make me feel icky.

 

[Rydia]

Except that they then do all they can to pay those employees as little a wage as possible, and doing things like giving them 39-1/2 hour work weeks, and not 40, so they don't go full-time and the company doesn't have to give them benefits.

A lot of companies do this. Some smaller businesses do not even make enough company to give their employees benefits. (My fiance's father) And isn't a job, better than no job? I'd take that over being unemployed, espeically if I were to have any of the above going for me. You can then at least start building up a resume to get something better in the future. Ex cons and those with felonies on their record have a very difficult time finding a job.

And I do have a friend that works at Walmart 30 hours a week. He's been there for enough years that they take $60 out of everyone of his pay checks for medical insurance. He is also now paid $14 an hour.

 

[coffeecup]

@Gamingway: "Made in China" doesn't mean that the bulk of the purchase price goes to China. Technically none of it goes anywhere other than to Walmart (located in the USA). The "made in China" actually brings in wealth to the USA since we get a labor and product value that greatly exceeds the meager wages paid to those foreign individuals working outside the labor laws of the USA. Walmart has little or nothing to do with the wealth leaving the USA.

Edit: To clarify, most cheap labor is outsourced to foreign countries even if the corporation is located within the USA. But that doesn't really matter since this is all with regard to low-value goods (stuff like toy cars, toasters, televisions, etc..) and has only a marginal impact on the economy. The US has always been a big timer on the high-value stuff (like insurance, financial services, legal services, etc...) so once our own people start moving towards foreign high-value commodities like those, then it's time to start worrying about massive wealth leaving our country.

As for the OP: is there a reason why you're picking in Walmart? Most large corporations take advantage of the looser labor laws, tax laws, etc... in other countries to the detriment of their people for the benefit of the comnpany. This is basic business practice that is pervasive throughout the good old capitalistic practice of the modern day. It's not really a problem with Walmart...

 

[Rydia]

I chose Walmart because it is the place that I typically see people trying to bring down. I've come across several facebook pages against Walmart, one being "People who shop at Walmart are douches!" Added to people knowing who the Waltons are and how rich they are.

The thread can apply to all stores like Walmart.

 

[CassinoChips]

A lot of companies do this. Some smaller businesses do not even make enough company to give their employees benefits. (My fiance's father) And isn't a job, better than no job? I'd take that over being unemployed, espeically if I were to have any of the above going for me. You can then at least start building up a resume to get something better in the future. Ex cons and those with felonies on their record have a very difficult time finding a job.

And I do have a friend that works at Walmart 30 hours a week. He's been there for enough years that they take $60 out of everyone of his pay checks for medical insurance. He is also now paid $14 an hour.

In theory, yes, having a job is better than being unemployed. But there is the concept of the Working Poor, which essentially makes no difference between being unemployed and having a low-wage job, and there is very little in terms of upward mobility when you deal with low-wage jobs, except in rare circumstances.

It is good to hear that Wal-Mart has changed some of its practices as far as insurance and such. Five to ten years ago, it wasn't the case, and it took labor unions getting involved to change Wal-Mart's policies.

 

[Rydia]

In theory, yes, having a job is better than being unemployed. But there is the concept of the Working Poor, which essentially makes no difference between being unemployed and having a low-wage job, and there is very little in terms of upward mobility when you deal with low-wage jobs, except in rare circumstances.

I would have to disagree. I would not have been able to sustain myself in college if I did not have my low wage job. Needed money for food and bills as well as rent for the year that I lived with friends. The company I did work for did allow employees to advance in rank. It was a department store though.

Also, my sister in law (26 y.o.) would still be living with her parents if she did not have her low wage job. If you manage your money right you can make things work.

And there is also the possiblity of having two jobs, which many people my age do.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

But there is the concept of the Working Poor, which essentially makes no difference between being unemployed and having a low-wage job, and there is very little in terms of upward mobility when you deal with low-wage jobs, except in rare circumstances.

Truth///




Anyways, I have a theory on Walmart:

I feel that warehouses like Walmart, Home Depot, etc. have to lean towards diversity as far as employment because of their sheer size. When you add the ideas of privileged people having no interest in working for Walmart and underprivileged people taking the opportunity, you have a diverse employee body.
Not all Walmarts are like this, however, location is also a factor. You will find that upper-middle class areas are not as diverse. I notice a difference between rural, suburban, and inner-city areas.
This is how most businesses are.
But I do think the employment with Walmart is commendable, if slightly exaggerated.

 

[CassinoChips]

I would have to disagree. I would not have been able to sustain myself in college if I did not have my low wage job. Needed money for food and bills as well as rent for the year that I lived with friends. The company I did work for did allow employees to advance in rank. It was a department store though.

Did you also get financial aid? I assume you graduated with a degree, which allowed you to change job fields? And you obviously didn't intend to remain with that company for your entire working career. There's a difference between that and only having qualification for dead end jobs, with no supplemental means of income.

Also, my sister in law (26 y.o.) would still be living with her parents if she did not have her low wage job. If you manage your money right you can make things work.

And there is also the possiblity of having two jobs, which many people my age do.

If you have to budget just right to make it from month to month, that's pertty much the Working Poor. Not that you should be able to throw money around left and right. But there should be a buffer, which many Working Poor do not have. If they have to pay a needed expense, it often times empties out their entire savings.

Of course, I'm speaking generally, so it's not going to apply to every case individually.

 

[Channizard]

I take Wal-Mart for what it is at face value... a giant corporation. Simple as that. They provide a good service (generally, this depends on their employees as well), with good products (well okay, maybe I've had SOME things break from Wal-Mart).

My mum works at Wal-Mart, and has been ever since I went to school.. Well maybe not that long.. I'm fairly certain she's been there at least 10 years. Her wage? A measly 16$/hour. Yeah they take off dental, medical, union, RRSPs.. shit load of deductions but even still, half my life she's been there, that much I know for sure, and she gets paid shittily. At first it wasn't an issue because my dad made good money at the Saw Mill, but after he had to retire, it's been a bit of a stretch since then.

Wal-Mart paying their employees the bare minimum, for how large it is, is quite crap. I'm not sure what the American Min Wage is right now, ours is at $8.50/hour...but BC has the lowest in Canada. After that it jumps to at least 10$ everywhere else. For how many chains and stores all over North America, I'm sure Wal-Mart could afford to pay at least a dollar above minimum for all their employees.

I personally never went to apply for Wal-Mart, cause my mum knows how the process goes and she said I'd be wasting my time. I'd either get all nights, which would be good cause that is a dollar above minimum... or if I tried to shoot for days, I'd have to be there a heck of a long time before I got full or at least decent day time hours. Wal-Mart is HUGE on their seniority rules.

 

[coffeecup]

I chose Walmart because it is the place that I typically see people trying to bring down. I've come across several facebook pages against Walmart, one being "People who shop at Walmart are douches!" Added to people knowing who the Waltons are and how rich they are.

The thread can apply to all stores like Walmart.

Dunno. At least Walmart provides goods to everyone, unlike other types of companies that essentially use the labor of low-income individuals to produce products that only mid/high-income individuals purchase. This way the people that are harmed are at least compensated through the reduced prices and all-in-one shopping place (to save gas and what not).

So is Walmart bad by shoving out smaller businesses and perpetuating business practices that can be arguably morally negative? Yes. Is Walmart good by providing thousands of jobs and pushing down the prices of a large number of products? Yes.

So Walmart is good and bad. But its benefits probably outweigh the costs to society. The only problem is that the individuals being harmed don't really have a say in the matter and are just being abused and told "that's business." But there really isn't another alternative when you're working with a loosely regulated free market economy. A way you could minimize this abuse is with governmental oversight and strictly imposed regulations, but the people being neglected don't have the means to lobby against corporate special interests or anyone really... and I diverge.

So Walmart isn't at total fault. Imo there are bigger forces working in the background that has led to this abuse, and Walmart is just a small cog in an arguably defective system.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

So is Walmart bad by shoving out smaller businesses and perpetuating business practices that can be arguably morally negative? Yes. Is Walmart good by providing thousands of jobs and pushing down the prices of a large number of products?

From a certain standpoint, it could be argued that Walmart saves society from wasting money with other businesses.
Seriously, if you saw the base price of things before they hit retail, you wouldn't be saying there's anything wrong with ol' Wally World period.

 

[coffeecup]

From a certain standpoint, it could be argued that Walmart saves society from wasting money with other businesses.
Seriously, if you saw the base price of things before they hit retail, you wouldn't be saying there's anything wrong with ol' Wally World period.

The base price before retail is lower than the price given by Walmart. But the problem is that these goods are not readily accessible to the average consumer. Most distributors are limited in types of products, bundle size, location, etc... Thus comes retailers like Walmart, Target, and what not to bridge the gap between "few products in large packages" to "one product on the shelf." So Walmart technically increases the prices of goods since it's an extra avenue that goods need to shoot through before they hit the consumer.

So...Walmart's "price reduction" isn't the price of the good per se but rather with regard to the "retail premium". The reduced prices that are being referenced are the existing prices for goods that were already set by the preexisting retail market pre-Walmart. Enter Walmart and due to its ginormous size and special business model it was able to push prices even further down (or rather reduce the "retail premium" that consumers were paying for retail-like services)....remember how once upon a time there was a store called K-mart? Not only small business could feel Walmart eating away at their market share.

The question isn't whether or not Walmart-like stores have a reduction in the price of goods on the market (or saves the consumer $$$), that's pretty much a given. I thought the point of the discussion was whether negative effect was justified by the benefits. This is not an easy question, and I find that focusing on a $$$ benefit/cost analysis is too narrow a focus. People's lives are lost in this crude calculation, and this was the weakness I was prodding at in a (dollar)value-based economic analysis.

Don't get me wrong, I think capitalism is great and the best economic system that we've stumbled upon to date. But a laissez-faire market economy is inherently defective (once it leaves the land of theory and into the land of reality) and requires some measure of governmental oversight. There's not enough in the USA, that's all I was really ranting about before.

(Edit: This last paragraph is just a general point that isn't aimed at Walmart. A particular example would be the lack of ovesight in the finance/banking industry. It's just a side note that I put out there while writing the post.)