Ultimecia Vs Sephiroth Vs Kuja Vs Kefka

How can that be proved? Super Nova is a Summon. It's canon, just like Ifrit, Ramuh or KOTR. Ok, it doesn't kill anyone, but the HP damage can't be taken into account, it's a gameplay element, not a canon occurance. If the HP/MP system WAS canon, people who are knocked out wouldn't be in cutscenes. So, Super Nova did destroy at least the Solar System, and it did it canonically.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. Crisis Core shows us that the environmental effects of the summons are nothing more than illusions, they show their opponent visuals that aren't really there. When Zack fought Ifrit it appeared as though he were in a magma filled hellhole, but in actuality he was still in the Wutai forest, no flames anywhere near him. Same goes for when you fight Bahamut in Banora and Bahamut Restu in Midgar. It appears as though Banora and Midgar were transformed into cloudy arenas, but in reality nothing had happened to them. Supernova is the same way. It shows an illusion to hit the player with a powerful magic attack.

Even ignoring this devastating evidence, there is more proof that it didn't destroy any planets. We know from Crisis Core that Supernova was Sephiroth's signature move even before Nibelheim, he had used the move in his career as a SOLDIER, and the solar system is still very much intact. Then there's the fact that Sephiroth didn't want the planet destroyed, he needed it intact to absorb its lifestream. Sephiroth wouldn't use a move that would ruin his whole plan. Then there's the fact that if Sephiroth could call meteors before Nibelheim, he wouldn't have needed the black materia.

Supernova doesn't destroy any cosmic objects, it is nothing more than a powerful spell with an illusory sequence like many other summons.
 
Incorrect, SOLDIERis1337. Summon occurances are NOT illusions. Nothing shows that there are. The Summons are within Materia, which is condensed Mako, which is condensed Lifestream. The environmental damage occurs in the Lifestream, which damages the victim. The Solar System (at least) was destroyed, though, as no environmental changes occur to Gaia, which is the FF7 world, NOT Earth. The only occurance in the Super Nova Summon which happened in the Lifestream was the appearance of the equations and text during the attack.
Also, Super Nova would have obliberated Gaia, which Sephiroth did not want to do, so he used the weaker Meteor. As you stated, he wanted to damage Gaia (which you mistook as Earth), not destroy it.
So, in conclusion, every Summon occurs, yet the events which produce no environmental effect yet appear to, take place in the Lifestream, as does text and equations which happen as part of the Summon, which would not take place outside the Lifestream. Super Nova happened, case closed.
 
Last edited:
Apologies for this double post, but there should be an exception considering my answer wouldn't fit into one post.
The equations and text which are part of Summons, (not the information bar, obviously) like during Super Nova, are occurances within the Lifestream, as there is no reason for it to exist in the living universe, but there is within the Lifestream, as it adds to the mental effect on the universe. The equations and text are not just going to appear in front of somebody. It's not physical.
 
SOLDIERis1337 said:
True, I'm only using the words you posted. Sephiroth was the only character you mentioned being knocked out. Seeing as how you mention no other characters being defeated or knocked out, you're more than likely implying something there.
Click to expand...
lol Because I had the other two (Kefka and Ultimacia) being knocked out first by Kuja and Sephiroth. Get it? Here is what I meant:

1st place: Kuja
2nd place: Sephiroth
3rd place: Kefka
4th place: Ultimecia

I wasn't even going to mention the latter 2 because I had it down to the top two fighters overall. I think your assuming trumps my implying. Let's just state our opinions and move on without me bashing your opinions, and you bashing mine; it's ruining the topic.
 
Materio, none of the summons environmental effects are real. This is shown very explicitly by Crisis Core, seeing as how the Wutai forests weren't burned to the ground, etc. None of it occurs in the lifestream, as the lifestream is nothing but spirit energy, not a realm of its own. The equations and every other visual in the attack is illusory, not physical.

Supernova has been used by Sephiroth since before Nibelheim, its always been his signature move. Since the solar system is still intact, it doesn't destroy the solar system, end of story. There's no arguing what the games make clear.


And why is everyone rating Kuja so high? Yeah, he glassed Terra, but he needed multiple blasts of Ultima to take out just the skyscrapers of Bran Bal. Kefka's Light of Judgement burns a town to ashes with one use, and if he spammed it like Kuja did Ultima he'd level Terra in no time. Sephiroth has power greater than Chaos, a WEAPON designed to do exactly what Kuja did to Terra, and even just using the attack he destroyed the Junon cannon with he could replicate Bran Bal's destruction. Ultimecia is also being severely underrated here, we see here quite literally absorbing the universe, Terra is a light snack for her.
 
Last edited:
SOLDIERis1337, read Hoshi Wo Meguru Otome/Maiden Who Travels The Planet. It proves that there is a world within the Lifestream, in which Aeris is allowed to remain, for a while, before being absorbed. This is where part of the Summons take place. Which is the reason for Gaia's lack of environmental damage.
Super Nova, to my knowledge, was only used by Seraph/Safer Sephiroth. You put up a good argument, but you're still incorrect. Super Nova happened.

Kuja destroyed Terra with ease. I'd say only him and Sephiroth could pull that off, it's an amazing feat.

Ultimecia is overrated. She attempted to absorb time and space, and failed miserably. Only Kefka is inferior to her.
 
Last edited:
whyd u randomnly choose dose 4 baddies, anywayz i tink dat kefka is da best cuz he reminds me of da jker nd sephy nd kuja r kool 2 but i h8 ultimecia cuz seiferz a betta baddie in ff8 den ultmecia nd her name is wierd 2
 
I'm quite neutral to this. Seeing how they all have their own stories kinda fit them into the good villains.

But in terms of ratings, I'll go with Kefka. At least they showed a lot of his evil when he poisoned that river/lake... And i particularly found his laughter somewhat amusing...?

Followed by Sephiroth, with his burning down of Nibelheim.. Cool look, at least he being real filial in a sense.

And Kuja, for his destruction in Terra... To defy his fate, doesn't sound exactly like a bad thing on the whole, it was just the methods he used (Which was evil). Ultimately turned good, which lowered his ratings.

Lastly, Ultimecia. Well, i suppose i don't know her well enough as a bad guy to rate her, so she's last.
 
SOLDIERis1337, read Hoshi Wo Meguru Otome/Maiden Who Travels The Planet. It proves that there is a world within the Lifestream, in which Aeris is allowed to remain, for a while, before being absorbed. This is where part of the Summons take place. Which is the reason for Gaia's lack of environmental damage.
Click to expand...

Maiden isn't canon in any way, shape, or form. Its not included in any list of compilation materials and it directly contradicts Crisis Core, which came after it. Crisis Core is canon, Maiden is not.

Super Nova, to my knowledge, was only used by Seraph/Safer Sephiroth. You put up a good argument, but you're still incorrect. Super Nova happened.
Click to expand...

Go play Crisis Core, seriously you're missing a lot of info on FF VII without it. We're told in Crisis Core that Sephiroth's signature move is Supernova. He was using it before Nibelheim even, that's a canon fact.

Kuja destroyed Terra with ease. I'd say only him and Sephiroth could pull that off, it's an amazing feat.
Click to expand...

He needed multiple uses of his most powerful spell to do it, that's not impressive compared to Kefka or Ultimecia. Kefka's Light of Judgment destroys cities in a single use, so he could glass Terra faster, and Ultimecia would just absorb Terra and Gaia in an instant. We see her absorbing stars at a rapid rate in the final battle against her, and the creators of FF VIII stated that she was absorbing all existence. Kuja's feat would be replicated by anyone mentioned in this topic's title, as well as by Exdeath and Cloud of Darkness.
 
SOLDIERis1337, Maiden IS canon and after Crisis Core. It is included in the Compilation, and has been stated so.
I've completed Crisis Core. I never saw any information on Super Nova in Crisis Core, please show me. And even if it was in Crisis Core (which you have yet to show me), what's to say Sephiroth wasn't using it differently, without destroying places? Eeexactly...you're wrong either way.
Ultimecia couldn't absorb fast enough, she was defeated while trying. And even if she did succeed, what's to say only she can absorb? Sephiroth was going to absorb the Lifestream, therefore he could absorb all existence too (and quicker, due to his superior power, so he'd succeed), but it goes against his plans. Kuja destroyed Terra, prove that Kefka or Ultimecia (or anyone other than Sephiroth, for that matter) can do that.
 
I'm gona have to agree with Bustamo on this. Kuja all the way. Sephy is badass and all, but he just can't compare to a being fighting to defiey his fate. Plus Sephy's kinda a mommas boy so... :p
 
Maiden is not canon, period. It isn't included in any official list of compilation titles, nothing that happens in it is spoken of in the compilation UG, it directly contradicts Crisis Core, and it wasn't even written by someone from Square. Its not canon, that's a fact.

The Sephiroth fan club tells us in Crisis Core that Supernova is his signature move, long before he even fell in the lifestream. There's absolutely no way to make offensive magic "non destructive," stop trying to argue against the game itself.

Ultimecia was absorbing stars rapidly in the final battle, she takes out dozens of solar systems in seconds. She's the most powerful FF villain out there, inarguably.

Kuja needed multple uses of his best spell to take out some of a single city's buildings, Kefka's LoJ takes out a city in one use, that proves he has greater power. Ultimecia absorbs galaxies in minutes as FF VIII shows, so a single dying planet is nothing to her.
 
The point of topics like these isn't to simply state your opinion and leave, its to discuss and debate your opinions with other people who may or may not agree with you. To disallow debate here is to dull the topic into a pointless multi person blog.
 
Kuja is a planet buster. Kuja > them. Plus, he's the only FF villain who actually succeeded in killing the protagonists. :monster:
 
SOLDIERis1337, Maiden is canon, it's included in the FF7 Compilation. It is indeed in Official Compilation lists. And how exactly does it contradict Crisis Core?
So, the fan club state Super Nova is his signature attack? I'll check that out, I'm replaying the game anyway. If it is indeed stated as his signature attack, how does that help your argument anyway? The attack would have been used differently, Sephiroth wasn't insane then. So, your argument still crumbles. I'll check out if you're correct about that statement in Crisis Core, but you're still wrong.
Ultimecia obviously wasn't fast enough to absorb existence, though, regardless of the stars.
Kuja destroys the planet of Terra effortlessly, I've yet to see Kefka or Ultimecia achieve that.
And, I agree, debating is the whole point of threads like this. You can get your point across and learn new stuff (I may have just learned that Super Nova is Sephiroth's signature attack).
 
SOLDIERis1337, Maiden is canon, it's included in the FF7 Compilation. It is indeed in Official Compilation lists.
Click to expand...

No, no it isn't. Maiden and the events in it are not mentioned in the FF VII Ultimania, the Advent Children Reunion Files, The Dirge of Cerberus Complete Guide, The 10th anniversary Ultimania, the Compilation of FF VII Ultimania, the Crisis Core Ultimania, The Crisis Core Complete Guide, and it is absent from every single official list of materials that make up the compilation.

I have read all of the compilation's official materials. Maiden is not mentioned by a single one of them, it wasn't even written by someone from Square. You're incorrect here, period.

So, the fan club state Super Nova is his signature attack? I'll check that out, I'm replaying the game anyway. If it is indeed stated as his signature attack, how does that help your argument anyway? The attack would have been used differently, Sephiroth wasn't insane then.
Click to expand...

You can't make an attack less damaging, especially not an attack that blows up the sun after destroying most of the planet's beyond the asteroid belt. You're wrong here again, period.

Ultimecia obviously wasn't fast enough to absorb existence, though, regardless of the stars.
Click to expand...

She doesn't need to be fast enough. Squall and Company had a Deus ex Machina(read:plot device) protecting them that none of the villain have. Ultimecia would simply absorb Kuja, Sephiroth or Kefka.


Kuja destroys the planet of Terra effortlessly, I've yet to see Kefka or Ultimecia achieve that.
Click to expand...

You also haven't seen Sephiroth do that. Heck, Sephiroth never even achieved half of what Kefka or Ultimecia did, so why in god's name do you put him so high?

The fact remains that Kefka's Light of Judgment destroys towns in one use, and Kuja's Ultima needs to be spammed to do the same. He's weaker, end of story.

Ultimecia absorbed hundreds of solar systems in the final battle, meaning she busted possibly thousands of planets, that makes her more powerful than Kuja too.
 
Maiden was mentioned in the FF7 Ultimania Omega. That's where it was PUBLISHED. Therefore, it's part of the Compilation Of FFVII.
Errm...you're saying you can't limit your own strength? You're wrong. If I can do it, which I can, Sephiroth obviously would have the ability to limit his own strength.
It matters not what plot devices occured - Ultimecia failed, therefore wasn't fast enough.
Errm...Sephiroth destroyed at least a Solar System effortlessly - neither Kefka nor Ultimecia can/have achieved anything close to that. And Super Nova was far superior to Kuja's Terra feat.
Kuja effortlessly destroyed a PLANET, more than Kefka's little "town-buster". Kuja is much more powerful than Kefka.
Ultimecia lost. Obviouly she's not very good at absorbsion. Sephiroth can absorb, as we know, and as he is superior to Ultimecia, he would absorb much more effectively. Evidently, Ultimecia was inferior to Kuja, as Kuja could effortlessly obliberate Terra. Ultimecia couldn't defeat Squall, let alone Kuja.
 
Maiden is not mentioned in the FF VII Ultimania. It is a seperate book entirely. The Compilation Ultimania mentions every bit of canon in the compilation an gives a description of each, and Maiden's not in it.

If Sephiroth could make his attack weaker he wouldn't have needed Meteor, end of story. If you can destroy a solar system with an attack that you can make weaker, it can wound a planet.

Ultimecia destroyed hundreds of solar systems, that's canon, play FF VIII. Kefka does in one attack what Kuja needs several to do, again, this is canon fact.

Sephiroth can't absorb reality champ, only the lifestream. Ever notice how he doesn't absorb people or planets?

Most devstating of all though, you claim Sephiroth did in fact destroy the solar system, why is that solar system alive and well currently?

Just give it up kid, you're starting to make yourself look silly.
 
Oh. My. God. Google it, Maiden was published in the Ultimania Omega. You're so wrong.
Sephiroth used Meteor because he wanted humanity to suffer. Meteor is much, much slower, and he wanted to torture humanity slowly. Also, he would have enjoyed using the Ancients' Black Materia against Gaia, because, again, he's an 'orrible bastard who hated the Ancients. This is why he didn't just use a weakened Super Nova.
Ultimecia's absorbtion wasn't strong enough, obviously. Sephiroth can absorb the Lifestream, which is the most powerful energy in the game (excluding a few characters of FF7). So, absorbing anything else would be simple. And since Sephiroth is superior to Ultimecia, he could absorb SUCCESSFULLY, unlike Ultimecia, who was too weak and too slow. Ultimecia never destroyed planets, just absorbed them, which I have proven Sephiroth can do better.
Kuja can destroy a planet, Kefka can destroy cities. You clearly don't understand that a planet is MUCH bigger than a city.

Gaia is not Earth, go and read up on FF7, you clearly need to. Gaia isn't in the Solar System.
Give it up? When I'm winning? Never. This is just too fun. You just can't accept the fact that, unlike Sephiroth fanboys, I actually give reasons. You've lost the argument, SOLDIERis1337.
Oh, and, Translanka? Kingdom Hearts is not canon.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top