The Titanic

Lirael

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Here's a thread in which to discuss the Titanic. The 100th anniversary is in just under a month, so I thought others may be interested by it. There will soon be documentaries and dramas on TV, which you guys may want to discuss here.

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The sinking of the Titanic absolutely fascinates me.

The first time I watched footage of the wreck, I was 9 years old and sitting eagerly against the TV as I awaited the appearance of Leonardo DiCaprio in the 1997 film. My introduction to the wreck, then, was typical for my generation. Back then, I was a little tentative - the Titanic resembled a ghost ship. The sea life which clung to its rusty, disintegrated rails were a ghostly veil; the features on the ship were indistinct, washed out like a gothic painting; the artefacts belonged to people who had died. I could not separate the ship, nor the dissembled objects which lay on its floors, from the dead bodies that been trapped within its walls. I distanced myself from these images and focussed instead on the fictional love story.

One week ago, I decided it was time to read about what really happened that night. What I discovered surprised me; a considerable series of unlucky expectations and events contributed to the disaster.


  1. Neither The White Star Line nor Harland and Wolff declared the Titanic unsinkable. However, people believed she was. This played a part later, as people were reluctant to get onto the ‘flimsier’ lifeboats.
  2. The route taken by the Titanic was usually busy. However, a coal strike at the time meant that ships which may have used that route were in port.
  3. It is possible that the iceberg the Titanic hit was a ‘black iceberg,’ an iceberg that’s recently broken off, revealing clear ice that’s almost invisible to the eye. These could usually be detected by the water’s movement, but the water was still.
  4. When the Titanic hit the iceberg, five of the her compartments were flooded; the Titanic was equipped to stay afloat with up to four flooded compartments.
  5. The size of the Titanic may have contributed to the series of holes in the ship’s side which allowed the fifth compartment to fill up with water. A smaller ship would not have had the same momentum and may have bounced away from the iceberg soon after impact. The Titanic, however, forced herself forward.
  6. Shipwrecks away from port were rare; they usually occurred when the ship ran aground in shallow waters or came into contact with things in port. Even then, routes were generally busy, so if a ship did sink at sea, it was expected that another ship would be nearby. This is one explanation for the lack of lifeboats. Lifeboats were used to transfer people between the wreck and safety; having space on these lifeboats for every person on board didn’t seem necessary.
  7. The Titanic actually carried more lifeboats than required by the Board of Trade's regulations - 4 additional collapsible boats and 2 emergency cutters, which could collectively carry 268 people - but these regulations were outdated. They targeted ships above 10,000 tons; the Titanic was a giant in comparison as she weighed 46,328 tons.
  8. As extra insurance, the Titanic provided life vests for every member on board, which were padded so as to keep each person’s head out of the water, even if they fell unconscious or couldn’t swim. However, the water was far too cold. Hundreds died of hypothermia.
  9. Time was against the staff as they strove to fill the lifeboats. It was important to get the boats out to sea before the ship sank. The boats would be useless if they went down with the ship. Filling them did not feel like a priority, particularly when so many passengers did not want to leave their loved ones and believed the ship was more sturdy.
  10. The intricate design which separated First Class, Second Class and Third Class passengers from one another contributed to the death of so many Third class passengers. Contrary to the 1997 film, these passengers were not detained behind closed doors. The ship’s interior was a labyrinth of corridors and stairs. Some had ¼ mile to travel before they reached lifeboats; others were foreign and could not understand instructions. Furthermore, the newness of the Titanic meant that even the staff were uncertain about which direction to take.

I was also surprised by the genuine heroism displayed during the event, as described in personal accounts. I had always thought Jack Dawson somewhat of a fictional character, but it appears that certain people were willing to go down with the ship for the sake of their loved ones, even for the sake of others whom they perceived to be more vulnerable. Most famously, members of the band kept on playing until the ship went down. Survivors agree that they closed with a hymn, but disagree on the title.

My desire to learn and reflect on the tragedy came at a suitable time; the 100th anniversary of the Titanic is in less than a month (15th April). I plan to watch each documentary on it, to pick up one or two more books so I may learn more about what happened that night. I would love to travel to the depths of the ocean to explore the wreck itself. Unfortunately, I am unlikely to be in that position, and even then, each visit to the ship is detrimental to its survival; disturbances in the water, created by our submarines, have caused the Titanic to disintegrate as much in 10/20 years as it did in the 70 years before we discovered her. It has been estimated that in 50 years, the ship will collapse.
 
  1. It is possible that the iceberg the Titanic hit was a ‘black iceberg,’ an iceberg that’s recently broken off, revealing clear ice that’s almost invisible to the eye. These could usually be detected by the water’s movement, but the water was still.

That could well be true. :ohshit:

I've heard at least one story about a surfer in cold water who literally paddled his board into an iceberg as the ice was so transparent as to be nearly invisible.

Unfortunately for me, when Titanic was released I remember a radio DJ saying: "what's the point in seeing Titanic, you know the boat is going to sink at the end!!".

That totally ruined it for me & I could never get that out of my head..

The second thing that ruined it for me is all the people I know who thought they were being "badasses" in bragging about laughing when Leonardo Decaprio dies at the end. :(

On the plus side, I actually kind of like the cheesy and over the top Celine Dion song. :grin: But, unfortunately, could never really enjoy the movie... :ohshit:
 
As far as media representations of Titanic go, I've only seen the Cameron film Titanic.

Like most of us here, I was young when this came out and I didn't know much about Titanic. I was actually too young to see the film because of the nude and naughty scenes which popped the rating up to a 12 (or 12a, or whatever). When my family got the video of Titanic I watched it, but looked away when it got to the naughty stuff out of embarrassment (so I never actually saw those bits - if anything was even visible, I'm unsure).

As for the rest of the film it is very powerful, I felt. I didn't care for the romantic sub-plot, but everything else made me sad.

As for other films... I'd be quite interested in seeing the Titanic film that the Nazis made. They made a Titanic film which I think basically put German heroes on board the ship, and the sinking was due to British snobbery and greed. I need to see it to be sure how they spin it. It'll not be true, obviously, but interesting because of this (although the snobbery played a role, but not in the same proportions as the Nazis would paint of it).

And then there is that terrible animated version with a rapping dog. That (though I haven't seen it) doesn't seem to capture the true mood of the disaster, or indeed any mood at all.

There is a recent TV drama on Titanic coming up, but I don't know what is going to be done with that. I haven't looked into it. Perhaps it is going to be a more historically accurate account of the sinking, minus the love-plot. I wasn't going to watch it unless I heard that it was going to be very good.


As for the actual event of the Titanic....
I once attended an exhibition on the Titanic which had a section where you could touch a (fake) iceberg which was kept to the same approximate temperature that the water would have been. It was absolutely freezing. I could barely hold on to it for more than a few seconds. Imagining that covering my entire body, and with little warning, I can see how easy it could have been to die fairly quickly in that water from shock alone. Recovering from that would have taken (and for those that did recover it did take) a miracle.
 
Ive always been absolutely facinated with the Titanic, way before Camerons film came out, Id already seen most if not all of the earlier films, gotta love a black and white film, and its intersting to note the lack of knowlege then and now, my memory is vague, but they show the boat just completely sinking after its arse end going up, rather than breaking in half.

I cant remember a lot of stuff about it anymore unfortunately, but I do remember that cameron did pick up on a fair few minor facts in his fim, that woman in the back ground that was listeng in on Ismays and the captains conversation was a real lady who heard them talking about speeding up, even the two men on the deck with the young boy who Jack steals his coat off were real dudes (i might be wrong on which kid it was, but i think it was the one from that scene, who in real life, survived the sinking then was run over and killed, like, days later)

No one is certain where the captain actually died either, in several films he's been placed in different places as the ship has gone down

There was some documentary a while back, to see how it could have been handled better. Like, no closing the bulk head doors, which, as it turns out, at least according to the reenactment, the boat would have sank sooner, and capsised

I cant really remember much about it anymore, i was all swatted up on this like, 10+ years ago ):

As far as Im aware, hardly any of the 3rd class made it out at all, im pretty sure most of the 1st class did :hmmm:

oh, a guy was pulled out of the water after drinking cooking shandy or something, kept him warm i guess xD

And then there is that terrible animated version with a rapping dog. That
(though I haven't seen it) doesn't seem to capture the true mood of the
disaster, or indeed any mood at all.

argh, i sat and watched that whole thing :rage:

You should try Toytanic lol
 
I've heard about the German film. Isn't that one meant to be reasonably decent for its time, despite a few transformations to make it propaganda? :hmmm:

New theories are still being made as to why the ship hit the iceberg in the first place. More recently, it has been suggested that the conditions on that night created an optical illusion which concealed the iceburg, making it appear last minute. This coincides with accounts from the lookouts.

The optical illusion could have been created by the temperatures, as the air directly above the sea was much colder (due to the ice) than the air above that.

There's an article here which will no doubt explain it more clearly!
http://www.inquisitr.com/200735/opt...sunk-titanic-and-delayed-rescue-times-theory/

Your opinions?
 
Visibility was poor(no moon) and ships don't come equipped with headlights.

The ocean is often in constant motion which can contribute to things being hidden from sight until the last second. The portion of the iceberg that is visible does nothing to suggest how far beneath the surface its mass extends.

They could have steered around the part that was visible and still rammed into it.
 
Apparently that night was very clear people have said that visibility was excellent.

“The night was so clear,” said Sutherland, “that the Parisian’s lookout several times mistook stars on the horizon for ship’s lights. You have seen beautifully clear winter nights when you went skating and it seemed just like day. It was just such a night. You could have played a game of football."

which makes it more mysterious. ;)
 
Apparently that night was very clear people have said that visibility was excellent.

“The night was so clear,” said Sutherland, “that the Parisian’s lookout several times mistook stars on the horizon for ship’s lights. You have seen beautifully clear winter nights when you went skating and it seemed just like day. It was just such a night. You could have played a game of football."

which makes it more mysterious. ;)

There are different types of visibility. :elmo:

In looking at the night sky, how clear the stars and moon are can give an indication of how much air pollution & assorted particles are present in the atmosphere -- which can also be considered a factor of visibility. :grin:

But, another type of visibility involves the moon and how bright it is, or isn't.

On a moonless night when there isn't a lot of ambient light, visibility in terms of sighting objects like icebergs can be extremely poor.

If you've ever driven down a street that didn't have lights on a moonless night and turned your cars headlights off, you can't see much of anything. I would imagine the Titanic would have similar problems considering the moon was very dim on the night they hit the iceberg. :ohshit:

Also, considering the ship was lit and the area outside the ship wasn't, it could be difficult having their eyes adjust to the darkness, etc..
 
Also, considering the ship was lit and the area outside the ship wasn't, it could be difficult having their eyes adjust to the darkness, etc..
This is very true! I sort of imagine the moon being really bright and lighting up the sea in the same way the moon lights up my garden when it's full - you can see everything and it's painted in a nice silver light! :) However, it's pitch black in my house at night. There are no streets lights and we don't keep lights on either. It's always more difficult seeing things outside when the lights are on.
 
The Titanic was such an unnecessary travesty :(

I did go see the movie twice while it was in the theater, and it's probably in my top 10 favorite movies. It was acted so well and while there was romance in it, I don't think it detracted any too much from the emotional attachment I felt to all of those people as they lost their lives.

As far as what I know about what actually happened on that night in history, the captain made an extremely unwise decision to start gunning it during the day into the night where visibility admittedly isn't as good as it is during the day. Yes, it was a clear night but you can never see as well during the night as you can during the day. I guess the area they were going through didn't typically have icebergs present during that time of the year too, so they were surprised to run into one.

Either way, it was mistake after mistake. They didn't have enough life boats to begin with because the people who made the ship put all of their faith into the fact that because it was huge and something that they made, that it would therefore be unsinkable...so why bother with lifeboats ehhh? They didn't need them. Then, when they hit the iceberg there was confusion about what was going on and it wasted valuable time they could've used evacuating people. Then, they didn't bother filling the lifeboats to max capacity so they killed a lot of people not doing that. The whole thing was such a waste of human life. More people could have been saved, but they weren't.

When I see mini series of it on tv it's amazing to see. They say the ship might be gone in the next couple hundred years or sooner http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...-3-d-expedition-shipwreck-science-collapsing/

Looking back, the same thing could've happened with that Greek cruise ship that crashed and sunk. If they wouldn't have crashed so close to the rocks and land then a lot more people would've died...since the captain apparently thought it was more important to evacuate himself rather than give orders to evacuate his occupants on the ship.
 

They didn't have enough life boats to begin with because the people who made the ship put all of their faith into the fact that because it was huge and something that they made, that it would therefore be unsinkable...so why bother with lifeboats ehhh?
The ship was originally designed with enough space to carry 64 lifeboats, which would have been more than enough for the people on board. However, key people at the White Star Line or the IMMC insisted that the ship would be better with larger promenades. The number of lifeboats was consequently reduced to 40, then 32, and finally 16. The outdated rules stated that this was the requirement.

It wasn't the designer's fault, but people who decided that luxury was more important. :(

Mind you, a large number of people would have probably been lost even if there had been enough lifeboats. :sad3: I believe the final lifeboat left the ship 15 minutes or less before, meaning they couldn't have gotten enough boats into the water. I suppose they could have sped the process up and encouraged people to swim to them, but I can't really imagine it being significantly more effective - passangers in the lifeboats would have still been reluctant to move into the crowd of victims for fear of their lifeboat being swamped and capsizing!

The people who made the ship were more realistic about whether or not it could sink, I think. :hmmm: They designed it with all the necessary features, but they never said the ship was unsinkable. This appeared in an ad (or something similar) and it stuck. Members of the public started to believe it, which is why many of the lifeboats were near to empty. Very few people rushed for the lifeboats when they were being filled, believing that the Titanic was more stable. The officers on the Titanic couldn't wait for them; they had to get the lifeboats out to sea on time.
 
The ship was originally designed with enough space to carry 64 lifeboats, which would have been more than enough for the people on board.

Yeah....I remember them saying on the movie that some might think more life boats would make the deck look "cluttered" :lew:

What a shame.

The people who made the ship were more realistic about whether or not it could sink, I think. :hmmm: They designed it with all the necessary features, but they never said the ship was unsinkable.

For better or worse, they did ultimately think it was unsinkable though: "It was said that the builders and owners of Titanic claimed she was 'unsinkable'. The claim actually made was that she was 'practically unsinkable', close enough, but nevertheless an unfortunate statement and one which would haunt both builder and owner for years."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/britain_wwone/titanic_01.shtml
 
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