Stealing

[lreal]

You guys need to step back from the "individual view" and look at it from the perspective of why we preserve property rights from a "societal view." If people were just allowed to take property that would be a big discentive for individuals to put in the time, effort, thought, capital, etc... (investment) to come up with anything new, novel, or something that benefits society in general. Sure there's the problem with the great disparity in wealth among the population; however, history shows us that capitalism really trumps all other economic systems to day.

Plus, redistribution of wealth by stealing from the rich and redistributing to the poor is a pretty socialism type idea. We live in a capitalistic society where the preservation of property rights is essential for the market to run properly. You take that away, capitalism won't work at all.

 

[Rydia]

And why is stealing wrong? Because the big book says so?

And why is murder wrong? Rape? Assault? Because the big book says so?

Stealing is wrong. Somone may have worked hard for their money, bought what they want, and then someone who sits around all day comes and takes it from them. Sorry I don't believe in free hand outs. Stealing from a store is also wrong because the store itself loses money and the workers may get a pay cut if it happends too often. And stealing from the rich is also wrong because, guess what, they also worked for their money, sometimes 14 hour days. And why is being rich morally wrong? Many of them do give millions of dollars to charity. Wouldn't being lazy and living off the government when you are fully capable of working also be morally wrong?

Of course, there are exceptions. Stealing for survival I don't think is wrong. A natural disastor hits, your town is pretty much destroyed, and you need food. But you should only steal the essentials, food, drink, clothes, blankets, medication. Not giant TVs, expensive jewerly, make up...

 

[Catnip]

And why is murder wrong? Rape? Assault? Because the big book says so?

Stealing is wrong. Somone may have worked hard for their money, bought what they want, and then someone who sits around all day comes and takes it from them. Sorry I don't believe in free hand outs. Stealing from a store is also wrong because the store itself loses money and the workers may get a pay cut if it happends too often. And stealing from the rich is also wrong because, guess what, they also worked for their money, sometimes 14 hour days. And why is being rich morally wrong? Many of them do give millions of dollars to charity. Wouldn't being lazy and living off the government when you are fully capable of working also be morally wrong?

Of course, there are exceptions. Stealing for survival I don't think is wrong. A natural disastor hits, your town is pretty much destroyed, and you need food. But you should only steal the essentials, food, drink, clothes, blankets, medication. Not giant TVs, expensive jewerly, make up...

Murder and Rape? Are you kidding me? Completely. Irrelevant.

What I was asking was why you thought it was wrong. Mommy and Daddy says 'no' to stealing, but is that any reason to think it's wrong? Obviously not, since you just listed the exceptions.

I feel like you blew up or got offended or something along those lines, so I'm just making sure you and whoever else might be reading this understands what I'm really asking.
Stealing an item from someone who worked hard for it: unfair. I get that and I agree that it's pretty wrong. But what about downloading music? These artists also work hard and dedicate themsevles to these songs. Is it worse to physically steal a single off the shelves than it is to download a song for "free"?

 

[SapphireStar]

If a man stole food to feed his starving family, would that be so bad? Im not sure. However if someone stole like a DVD or a TV, then yes thats stealing. Im odd on the subject. I dont like people who break into peoples homes and rob them, thats uncalled for and plain sodding evil.

 

[VinnieJones]

Murder and Rape? Are you kidding me? Completely. Irrelevant.

What I was asking was why you thought it was wrong. Mommy and Daddy says 'no' to stealing, but is that any reason to think it's wrong? Obviously not, since you just listed the exceptions.

Mommy and Daddy say killing is wrong. but I kill little insects that crawl into my room. I've listed an exception, so therefore with your reasoning there is nothing wrong with killing a live creature.

plus, doing something for survival is always going to be an exception; if someone was trying to physically hurt you, it would be deemed as self-defence if you hit them instead for your own safety. is that reason to believe physical violence is right?

Stealing an item from someone who worked hard for it: unfair. I get that and I agree that it's pretty wrong. But what about downloading music? These artists also work hard and dedicate themsevles to these songs. Is it worse to physically steal a single off the shelves than it is to download a song for "free"?

you're starting to confuse yourself and everyone now, first you said that you think it's OK to steal from the wealthy but now you've decided to change subject and start talking about music artists and stealing music in different forms. What are trying to argue about?

 

[West]

I'd had to agree that stealing something just because you decide someone has "too much" of something is totally unjustified--same with stealing something because you feel someone has wronged you. It's just unethical. They're bogus reasons that only serve to make a person feel better about what they've done because they know they did something wrong and unnecessary.

(And I have to agree with Kandy on this point, Oblivion. It's terribly selfish to realize that there are things that you need, but you decide that you don't want to spend your own money on those things so you decide to steal them from other people. I think you need to grow up a little bit and prioritize things. It's not even as though pencils and stuff like that are expensive.)

I find that people who have no problem stealing--even just this and that--lack empathy. If they could put themselves in other peoples' shoes, they'd realize that being stolen from kind of sucks, and would hopefully decide not to take something that isn't rightfully theirs.

you're starting to confuse yourself and everyone now, first you said that you think it's OK to steal from the wealthy but now you've decided to change subject and start talking about music artists and stealing music in different forms. What are trying to argue about?

Actually, no. She made the example about stealing music and such in her very first post. It's quite on-topic because it's just talking about stealing through a different (and perhaps more common) means. What's the difference between stealing a shirt from a store and stealing a song from an artist? They're both stealing, but a lot of people will think that the latter is a smaller offense.

 

[Rydia]

Murder and Rape? Are you kidding me? Completely. Irrelevant.

What I was asking was why you thought it was wrong. Mommy and Daddy says 'no' to stealing, but is that any reason to think it's wrong? Obviously not, since you just listed the exceptions.

I feel like you blew up or got offended or something along those lines, so I'm just making sure you and whoever else might be reading this understands what I'm really asking.
Stealing an item from someone who worked hard for it: unfair. I get that and I agree that it's pretty wrong. But what about downloading music? These artists also work hard and dedicate themsevles to these songs. Is it worse to physically steal a single off the shelves than it is to download a song for "free"?

No I didn't just blow up. You're posts are just very confusing. You ask if stealing is wrong. Say it's ok to steal from the wealthy or people that have more than you. Maybe stealing music should have been specified? I thought you were talking about stealing in general as well as music.

If the artist doesn't want their music to be freely downloaded, then it would be wrong to steal/download it. Youtube has been silencing tracks that violate copy right issues.

 

[ClaireSensei]

i don't believe in stealing, i am a agnostic so it have nothing to do with the bible.
I grew up in a poor family, to paint you a pic of it, we had no car we live in a 2 rm about 400 sq ft at the biggest, eat the ramen which cost about 10cent every day back then.
no table or beds. nothing other then some sheets, a bit of running water and a steamer pot.

Any way only way i say you should ever steal is if it to survive.
IF you can survive with out stealing then don't.
even if you steal from a rich company or store, some one small in their will most likely be blame and lose their job even. among other things that could happen which is bad because you stole from their. everything you do can cause a chain reaction.
STealing can cause a bad chain reaction.

 

[VinnieJones]

Actually, no. She made the example about stealing music and such in her very first post. It's quite on-topic because it's just talking about stealing through a different (and perhaps more common) means.

well she did talk about it, but her argument was about her thinking that stealing in general is OK because she thinks stealing from the rich is alright.

not all musicians and record companies are rich, so i don't see the topic of stealing music in general is relevant at all here. if she had said like stealing music by Lady Gaga is OK but stealing from a small local band is wrong, I would've understood.

 

[Catnip]

If a man stole food to feed his starving family, would that be so bad? Im not sure. However if someone stole like a DVD or a TV, then yes thats stealing. Im odd on the subject. I dont like people who break into peoples homes and rob them, thats uncalled for and plain sodding evil.

I would think it's common sense that if a man took food for his starving family, it would not be wrong at all. Legal and illegal aren't synonyms for right and wrong.

 

[Catnip]

you're starting to confuse yourself and everyone now, first you said that you think it's OK to steal from the wealthy but now you've decided to change subject and start talking about music artists and stealing music in different forms. What are trying to argue about?

I can easily repeat myself now, but I'm too lazy so you're going to have to read a few replies after the original post.

 

[VinnieJones]

I can easily repeat myself now, but I'm too lazy so you're going to have to read a few replies after the original post.

fair enough. I too was too lazy to read any posts other than the initial and the most recent.

 

[Exoskeleton]

You know I'm actually a recovering klepto who almost got put in jail for stealing. Once you start it's very hard to stop and it becomes an addiction. When I was stealing I was just doing it no matter what it was. My sense of morals were goe. I ddn't care what was wrong, it was just the feeling of stealing that kept me going.

I'm better now and I know that stealing is wrong and all but for some people it can turn into a dangerous thing. I'm not gonna be the one to curse peoplee who do steal because they may not be able to stop or get any help.

Then again for those who hate stealing when you think about it we all steal at some time in our lives. When you pick up that pencil off the ground that ISN'T YOURS, you are stealing. When you find money on the ground that ISN'T YOURS you are stealing. You may not have intentions of stealing but that's still what it is. You are taking something that is not yours without permission.

 

[blakstang98]

I disagree with stealing. Taking something for free from someone unwilling means that the person being stolen from is at a loss. At a point in everyones life, they have a point in time when they run into financial woes. These woes get severely magnified if they are stolen from, even if you're a store owner and someone stole and candy bar, it's still a loss of a dollar to them. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have financial backing or spare change to fall back on.

I also highly disagree with the Robin Hood act. Just because 1 person has money and another doesn't, that doesn't mean it's ok for the less fortunate person to steal from the more well to do. Most people who are well off financially had to work hard to get there. It's not fair that they should be stolen from by a person who's too lazy to get a job, now is it. I'm willing to bet I'm in better financial shape than my neighbor. This does not give them the free pass to steal from me. They may work hard and continue to have a rough go of it, but it's still not ok for them to steal from me.

 

[Catnip]

I also highly disagree with the Robin Hood act. Just because 1 person has money and another doesn't, that doesn't mean it's ok for the less fortunate person to steal from the more well to do. Most people who are well off financially had to work hard to get there. It's not fair that they should be stolen from by a person who's too lazy to get a job, now is it. I'm willing to bet I'm in better financial shape than my neighbor. This does not give them the free pass to steal from me. They may work hard and continue to have a rough go of it, but it's still not ok for them to steal from me.

I think what made that pretty all right was the fact that the king was dick ass. But even then, it's still stealing from someone right? But it was considered "taking from the wealthy and giving to the poor". If the king was a nice guy, then Robin Hood would probably be considered the bad guy since he's "stealing".

lol the world

 

[Oblivion_XIII]

If they have more than what they need of something, why don't you just ask if they can share with you?

ha! If I could do that, I would. I'm not real liked around my school, and not even my friends share stuff with me (and no, its not because I steal them, I almost always give back something I borrow) I'm always in dire need of a pencil when I don't have one. I've been kicked out of class, flunked tests, ect. because I didn't have a pencil.

Also, why would somebody need 20 pencils, 5 wiis that work, 12 copys of the same cd that all work, ect. I that's when I steal from people.

I hardly have money on top of that, so when I do, I value it. I save it for when I really need it (which has come in handy before).

 

[Exoskeleton]

Nobody has seen my point but whatever. The thing is there are different types of stealing. You all have to choose a point to disagree on. I'm not gonna try to redo my statement above but I will make things clearer:

There is unintentional stealing: Everyone does this whether they want to or not.

Intentional: This is usually done on purpose and the person knows it's wrong.

Then there's the stealing that someone does who can't really help it that much, like what I had.

You can't really completely disagree completely on the subject unless you're just being difficult. XD

 

[West]

ha! If I could do that, I would. I'm not real liked around my school, and not even my friends share stuff with me (and no, its not because I steal them, I almost always give back something I borrow) I'm always in dire need of a pencil when I don't have one. I've been kicked out of class, flunked tests, ect. because I didn't have a pencil.

Also, why would somebody need 20 pencils, 5 wiis that work, 12 copys of the same cd that all work, ect. I that's when I steal from people.

I hardly have money on top of that, so when I do, I value it. I save it for when I really need it (which has come in handy before).

I find everything written here incredibly hard to believe. I've loaned supplies to people who I don't like before, so that should really have nothing to do with it. I seriously doubt a teacher would flunk you OR kick you out of class for not having a pencil. In fact, EVERY teacher of EVERY class I've EVER been in will provide pencils to students without them. If your teachers don't do this, you need to talk to your principal. Especially if you have financial issues, they're there to work with you. I would find it absolutely, positively, incredibly, highly unlikely if even the freaking principal of the school you go to would be against you here (though I'm not going to be surprised when you post back and tell us you tried that already and they were).

I also doubt anyone has five Wiis in their house, or twelve copies of the same CD. However, even if they did, why they have them is none of your concern and it certainly doesn't justify stealing these items.

As for saving and valuing your money, I'm pretty sure I saw in the SB not too long ago that you had gotten a new game or something. You do realize you can buy a lot of pencils for how much a game--even a cheap used one--costs?

 

[Catnip]

Nobody has seen my point but whatever. The thing is there are different types of stealing. You all have to choose a point to disagree on. I'm not gonna try to redo my statement above but I will make things clearer:

There is unintentional stealing: Everyone does this whether they want to or not.

Intentional: This is usually done on purpose and the person knows it's wrong.

Then there's the stealing that someone does who can't really help it that much, like what I had.

You can't really completely disagree completely on the subject unless you're just being difficult. XD

I know people who think all sorts of stealing is completely wrong and maybe even evil. These people usually turn in found items. These people wouldn't see someone steal and allow them to get away with it. You're a kleptomaniac? Have some self control. Couldn't afford food for your hungry family? Too damn bad. It's illegal to steal.

Then there are people who don't mind stealing at all. One finds a dollar on the ground, believes luck has taken place, takes said dollar and it then belongs to one. This person doesn't have enough money or doesn't feel like buying a $30 something that probably cost 5 cents to make, they steal it, it's theirs. They don't think about it, they don't stress over it, they sleep fine at night.

Some support, some are against, some are indifferent. I just want to know how people generally feel about stealing.

I seriously doubt a teacher would flunk you OR kick you out of class for not having a pencil. In fact, EVERY teacher of EVERY class I've EVER been in will provide pencils to students without them. If your teachers don't do this, you need to talk to your principal. Especially if you have financial issues, they're there to work with you. I would find it absolutely, positively, incredibly, highly unlikely if even the freaking principal of the school you go to would be against you here (though I'm not going to be surprised when you post back and tell us you tried that already and they were).

Kind of irrelevant, but I would just like to point out that people can be complete assholes. Students, teachers, principals, they're all people. If they don't like you, you're shit out of luck. I was once suspended for 3 days and received 2 weeks worth of detention after that because I didn't have a pencil in class. Why? The principal and teachers didn't like me because I was friends with other students they weren't fond of. It wasn't as though I could have asked any of the students to lend me a pencil either, since most of them didn't even have binders with them.

Just saying. People are lame.

Anyways,

I also doubt anyone has five Wiis in their house, or twelve copies of the same CD. However, even if they did, why they have them is none of your concern and it certainly doesn't justify stealing these items.

This. I just think stealing from another person who has earned these things is just a really crappy thing to do.

 

[Oblivion_XIII]

As for saving and valuing your money, I'm pretty sure I saw in the SB not too long ago that you had gotten a new game or something. You do realize you can buy a lot of pencils for how much a game--even a cheap used one--costs?

yeah, the game was $1, and I had pencils at the time, I usually do.

I find everything written here incredibly hard to believe. I've loaned supplies to people who I don't like before, so that should really have nothing to do with it. I seriously doubt a teacher would flunk you OR kick you out of class for not having a pencil. In fact, EVERY teacher of EVERY class I've EVER been in will provide pencils to students without them. If your teachers don't do this, you need to talk to your principal. Especially if you have financial issues, they're there to work with you. I would find it absolutely, positively, incredibly, highly unlikely if even the freaking principal of the school you go to would be against you here (though I'm not going to be surprised when you post back and tell us you tried that already and they were).

wow, you must be one nice person, people don't like me at my school, but lets not get into that.

My teachers do provide pencils, but kids don't return them (I return the pencils when i borrow them) And plus we have some strict teachers, you would be surprised.
Teachers at my school like me, tbh, but they think if you don't come prepared to class, you don't deserve to be in class.