Sephiroth Valentine

[Amizon]

Do you see the resemblence between Sephiroth and Vincent?

No.

Did Vincent ever sleep with Lucrecia?

No, they were just friends and he had a crush on her.

Accept it that Hojo is Sephiroth's father. There is more resemblence between Hojo and Sephiroth than Sephiroth and Vincent.

 

[Saix]

Do you see the resemblence between Sephiroth and Vincent?

No.

Did you see a physical resemblance between Hojo and Sephiroth?

Did Vincent ever sleep with Lucrecia?

No, they were just friends and he had a crush on her.

Did you see Hojo ever sleep with Lucrecia?



I fail to see how everyone here can whip up some unjustifiable arguments as to why Vincent isn't the father. It's entirely plausable. Well, maybe not, but it's not ever been said "oh, no, Vincent ain't his god damn father!"

 

[BustaMo]

I fail to see how everyone here can whip up some unjustifiable arguments as to why Vincent isn't the father. It's entirely plausable. Well, maybe not, but it's not ever been said "oh, no, Vincent ain't his god damn father!"

Did you even read my freaking post about 3 above yours? Hojo calls Sephiroth HIS OWN SON! I think that's proof enough right from the gamescript. That dispels any doubt that Hojo is Sephiroths dad.

You guys are sitting there trying to disprove what the game actually says when infact both of you are coming up with far-fetched theories from your imagination. On the contrary to our facts and evidence, you have shown nothing to back up your "whipped up unjustifiable arguments"...

 

[Serah]

Did you see a physical resemblance between Hojo and Sephiroth?



Did you see Hojo ever sleep with Lucrecia?



I fail to see how everyone here can whip up some unjustifiable arguments as to why Vincent isn't the father. It's entirely plausable. Well, maybe not, but it's not ever been said "oh, no, Vincent ain't his god damn father!"

Alright, I think everybody needs to calm down here before this gets out of hand. I understand people getting riled up about this, but there is no need for cussing and flaming. Saix, if I see it again, you will recieve a warning and that goes for anybody else who decides to flame.

 

[Omnislasher483]

Oh, I seem to recall the scene in which Lucrecia jumps into Hojo's arms.
Hojo's words are something along the lines of, "Oh. So you've finally come to your scences and chose me." This is why I said in my first post on this thread, that they had a brief affair, fling whatever you wanna call it, but you had to catch it. The key word that Hojo said to Lucrecia was, "CHOSE" meaning there was a love triangle thing there.

I'm not arguing that Vincent is Sephiroth's dad. I'm saying that you guys are too quick too dismiss the fact that Vincent and Lucrecia slept together.

 

[Saix]

I was very much under the impression that Lucrecia was pregnant before she "chose" Hojo and claimed her love for him. As for Hojo calling Sephiroth his son, personally I'd consider it a matter of pride that he created something as powerful as his "son," so naturally he's going to consider it his own; part of his family.

Alright, I think everybody needs to calm down here before this gets out of hand. I understand people getting riled up about this, but there is no need for cussing and flaming. Saix, if I see it again, you will recieve a warning and that goes for anybody else who decides to flame.

Excuse me? I fail to see evidence of negative behaviour. This is a debate... I'm discussing. Pointing out flaws in what people say comes in hand in discussions and debates. I can't even take that seriously. There wasn't even any flaming.

 

[Amizon]

Did you see a physical resemblance between Hojo and Sephiroth?

Their voices are both dark and freaky. Sephiroth resembled Hojo more. Their skin is both pale.

Did you see Hojo ever sleep with Lucrecia?

Why would Square even show that? There are kids that play this game, you know? It's immature and don't forget that there's a scene in DoC in which Hojo says that she chose him. They were talking about the experiment. They never did love each other, it was all just for the experiment with the Jenova cells.

I fail to see how everyone here can whip up some unjustifiable arguments as to why Vincent isn't the father. It's entirely plausable. Well, maybe not, but it's not ever been said "oh, no, Vincent ain't his god damn father!"

May I introduce you to Wikipedia?

Vincent was assigned to monitor the project and guard the scientists much to Lucrecia's surprise given her history with his father. Vincent soon fell in love with Lucrecia and attempted to court her. Sadly, Lucrecia felt too guilty over the death of his father to return his affection even when Vincent insisted he did not hold her responsible. She entered a relationship with Hojo (for reasons which are up to debate), who — along with Professor Gast — used both her and their unborn child as the subject of the Jenova Projects first in vitro experiment. Vincent protested this but Lucrecia maintained her stance on the issue causing tension between her and Vincent.

Hojo's notoriety begins approximately thirty years prior to the start of the game in Nibelheim, where he was sent by Shinra to assist Professor Gast and Lucrecia with the Jenova Project, a project headed up by Gast and intended to produce modern day humans with the abilities of the Cetra, which Jenova- in actuallity a world-devouring alien entity- was mistakenly believed to be a member of. It was believed that this goal may be realized by testing the effects of Jenova cells on an unborn child. Thus, the three Shinra scientists — with Lucrecia and Hojo's complete cooperation — injected some of Jenova's cells into the womb of Lucrecia, who was pregnant with Hojo's child at the time. The child that would come of this experiment was Sephiroth and Vincent, the only man who was against the experiment, was shot and underwent physical alterations by Hojo himself.

At first unknown to Vincent, Lucrecia once was an assistant to his father Grimoire Valentine on the discovery of Chaos and Omega but he died saving her life when the tests of the experiment went wrong. Vincent later discovered her link with his father’s death and asked Lucrecia why she never told him. She fled from Vincent but he wanted to find her so he could tell her his true feelings for her. When he spoke to Lucrecia later, she didn’t want to be with him as she felt too guilty about his father’s death and she told him it was all her fault. She fled again ultimately entering a relationship with her associate Hojo instead. Lucrecia became pregnant afterwards, and her unborn child was to be part of the next Jenova experiment of Hojo’s which was an investigation into the effect of Jenova cells on an unborn child.

And there we go, my point has been proven.

Vincent loved Lucrecia, but she didn't return his affection. She felt guilty for his father's death when they discovered Chaos and Omega. So really, Lucrecia only saw Grimiore in Vincent and just saw his shadow. She was taken aback by first meeting him and instantly thought of his father.

Although Lucrecia never really loved Hojo, she entered a relationship with him and so became impregnated by him. So that means Hojo is Sephiroth's father.

 

[Serah]

Excuse me? I fail to see how you getting smart with me is gonna make your chances in less for getting a warning. Keep it up. I was merely pointing out that it was not necessary for you to use the language that you did.

 

[Saix]

Why would Square even show that?

Your comment "did Vincent ever sleep with Lucrecia" implied the same thing. I merely pointed that out. Also, Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source for information in depth. Albeit such cases are rare...

Excuse me? I fail to see how you getting smart with me is gonna make your chances in less for getting a warning. Keep it up. I was merely pointing out that it was not necessary for you to use the language that you did.

Well, you evidently seem to have misinterpreted my post, and meaning. For that, I apologize. However I've done nothing wrong. And I wasn't getting "smart." I merely comment.

 

[Amizon]

Your comment "did Vincent ever sleep with Lucrecia" implied the same thing. I merely pointed that out. Also, Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source for information in depth. Albeit such cases are rare...[/COLOR][/FONT]

Then go ahead and back your claim up that Vincent is Sephiroth's father. I already did mine and who cares about Wikipedia? This is Sephiroth's father we're talking about here, isn't it? It may imply the same thing, but have you even ever played Dirge of Cerberus? Play the game and you might actually come to understand some things. If Vincent was Sephiroth's father, then he would know.

He would know if he ever slept with Lucrecia and it would imply that in Dirge of Cerberus and/or Final Fantasy VII. Have you even played Final Fantasy VII? Hojo clearly states that "his son" needs help. That's when Cloud questions if he is Sephiroth's father. Hojo does admit that he is his father and says he's about to show his results from injecting himself with the Jenova cells.

How much evidence do you need to see that Vincent is NOT Sephiroth's father? I even remember seeing something in the game with Vincent saying: "Lucrecia, your son, Sephiroth, is he alive?" Now why would he say YOUR son? If he knew Sephiroth was his son, then he would say MY son. Just accept that Hojo is the father and after all, Sephiroth was just merely an experiment. Which puts Hojo and Lucrecia together since they were both scientists.

 

[Grimoire Valentine]

So much hate here, and sorry mods but a lot of that negative stuff is coming from you guys too.

My point is that surely peoples theories, imagination and opinions is part of what makes FFVII great? If sombody just says somthing along the lines of "Hey you are wrong, see wikipedia/cloudopedia/ultma/ whatever" then whats the bloody point of having a forum like this?

I personally love this thread and I don't think anyone has been out of line. Look, certain people blitzed my Grimoire/Sephiroth comment but hey, I stand by it. I also said that it was a THEORY. Lets keep discussion open and dissing closed huh?

 

[Amizon]

So much hate here, and sorry mods but a lot of that negative stuff is coming from you guys too.

My point is that surely peoples theories, imagination and opinions is part of what makes FFVII great? If sombody just says somthing along the lines of "Hey you are wrong, see wikipedia/cloudopedia/ultma/ whatever" then whats the bloody point of having a forum like this?

I personally love this thread and I don't think anyone has been out of line. Look, certain people blitzed my Grimoire/Sephiroth comment but hey, I stand by it. I also said that it was a THEORY. Lets keep discussion open and dissing closed huh?

I wasn't really dissing there, just trying to prove my point against another in which I don't believe in.

 

[Saix]

Then go ahead and back your claim up that Vincent is Sephiroth's father.

Obviously I cannot. However neither have you, effectively.

Play the game and you might actually come to understand some things.

Oh come on. Now you're just trying to insult me.

If Vincent was Sephiroth's father, then he would know.

Is that so? Neither Vincent or Hojo was mentioned having sexual relations with Lucrecia, but neither was denied of it. There's no proof either way, which is why I'm trying to say that Hojo being the father isn't set in stone.

Hojo clearly states that "his son" needs help.

I responded to this before.

"Lucrecia, your son, Sephiroth, is he alive?" Now why would he say YOUR son? If he knew Sephiroth was his son, then he would say MY son.

If you knew your ex-love was with someone else, and also learn of her being pregnant, would you not assume that it wasn't yours?




And finally, I'm not being hostile. I'm... just... debating.

 

[Serah]

So much hate here, and sorry mods but a lot of that negative stuff is coming from you guys too.

OT: Grimoire, there is no negativity coming from us. Just because we are mods, does not mean are not allowed to participate in debates and post our opinions and even get riled up once in awhile. We aren't perfect by any means at all and we're allowed to make mistakes, get angry, get upset or like what is being said. We all have opinions and it doesn't mean we're negative just because we don't share the same views as others.

 

[Amizon]

Obviously I cannot. However neither have you, effectively.

I did show my evidence and there is plenty of evidence in both Final Fantasy VII and Dirge of Cerberus if you haven't noticed.

Oh come on. Now you're just trying to insult me.

Insulting you? No, no. As I have already mentioned, there is a amount of evidence there.

Is that so? Neither Vincent or Hojo was mentioned having sexual relations with Lucrecia, but neither was denied of it. There's no proof either way, which is why I'm trying to say that Hojo being the father isn't set in stone.

It clearly states in my previous posts that Lucrecia turned to Hojo for support after her "argument" with Vincent. He had feelings for Lucrecia, but alas, she just pushed him away.

I responded to this before.

And? The game says about "his son" and he must mean Sephiroth. Who else would he mention?

If you knew your ex-love was with someone else, and also learn of her being pregnant, would you not assume that it wasn't yours?

I said Vincent would know if he slept with Lucrecia ...

 

[Saix]

I said Vincent would know if he slept with Lucrecia ...

I'm full aware of what you said, but her being pregnant after their relations, should they have happened, is inconclusive to be the result of Vincent. Likewise to Hojo.

EDIT: And if someone can get proof that Hojo IS the father from a reliable source, I'll gladly retract my theories and apologize openly.

 

[Omnislasher483]

Vincent's never denied or confirmed sleeping with Lucrecia. Saix is right about this.

Originally Posted by Faith
"Lucrecia, your son, Sephiroth, is he alive?" Now why would he say YOUR son? If he knew Sephiroth was his son, then he would say MY son.

You kinda got it backwards. Lucrecia asks Vincent, "Is my son alive?" Vincent then responds, "No he is dead."

There was IMO a lot of sexual tension between Vincent and Lucrecia throughout DoC. And as sexist as it sounds, I still believe that no man can carry feelings like Vincent has over a women had he not slept with her.

 

[Daenerys]

Neither Grimoire Nor Vincent nor anyone else is Sephiroths Father. Like it or not his father IS Hojo, and i quote :

Sephiroth is estimated to have been born around 30 years before the start of the game (exact year left unknown) to Professer Hojo and Lucrecia of Shinra (Though some fans previously speculated that Sephiroth was the son of Vincent Valentine —who was in love with Lucrecia— official source material confirms otherwise



See - OFFICIAL sources CONFIRM that Hojo IS Sephiroths Father. So for those of you who think its Vincent or Grimoire or Whoever - Its Hojo.

 

[Amizon]

I'm full aware of what you said, but her being pregnant after their relations, should they have happened, is inconclusive to be the result of Vincent. Likewise to Hojo.

Let's just sum this whole thing up.

There was Gast, Lucrecia and Hojo wanting to test the Jenova cells out, right? So Lucrecia was to be impregnated by someone and then be injected with the Jenova cells; that would mean her child (being Sephiroth later) would also be affected by the Jenova cells and not be exactly the average, normal human of everyday.

Gast strongly opposed the experiment and left the pair of them to do it. At the time, Vincent was a Turk assigned to protect the three scientists. He grew close to Lucrecia and sure, he had feelings for her. But Lucrecia never actually returned that affection.

Before Vincent was assigned to protect them and unknown to him until discovering secret information, his father, Grimoire was working with Lucrecia when they discovered Omega and Chaos. They were experimenting with them until the experiments tragically killed him. Therefore, Lucrecia blamed herself for his death.

Since she blamed herself, she never returned Vincent any affection. After an argument when Vincent found about his father being a scientist, Lucrecia went to Hojo for comfort. Vincent himself thought that was the last time he ever saw her light shine or something along those lines.

It was Vincent who next opposed the experiment. But this resulted in him being shot. Lucrecia fell pregnant with Hojo's child and put Vincent in the regeneration lab tube. Now Lucrecia began to shout at Hojo because he would never let her see their child. The Jenova cells began to drive her mad and after she gave birth to Sephiroth (Vincent had already gone mad after being injected with the Chaos gene by Hojo and had been placed in a coffin in Nibelheim), she felt that she could not die and so cast herself into a crystal.

So Hojo is the father and he clearly stated thirty years later that he "needed to help his son".

 

[Saix]

Neither Grimoire Nor Vincent nor anyone else is Sephiroths Father. Like it or not his father IS Hojo, and i quote :

Sephiroth is estimated to have been born around 30 years before the start of the game (exact year left unknown) to Professer Hojo and Lucrecia of Shinra (Though some fans previously speculated that Sephiroth was the son of Vincent Valentine —who was in love with Lucrecia— official source material confirms otherwise



See - OFFICIAL sources CONFIRM that Hojo IS Sephiroths Father. So for those of you who think its Vincent or Grimoire or Whoever - Its Hojo.

"OFFICIAL" sources "CONFIRM" on which site? A mere copy and paste job isn't ever regarded as good evidence. Sorry to burst your bubble there, matey.

Like it or not his father IS Hojo

Why don't people just try to consider the possibility? D'=