Serious Relationships, crazies, and love

[chronotrigger]

Okay, so to begin this, I will just say that I am a tough man, I make my decisions thoroughly and permanently after full understanding, and I don't give up. I should also mention that I had only dated two girls before this story and each lasted 3 weeks to the day when they both cheated on me with the same person and left me for said person. Now that that's out of the way, I need some advice and this will be a long story, so please be patient throughout it. Just keep in mind that I have made mistakes in the past, and I learn from all of them. Please be bluntly honest and frank since I don't like lies, even the sugar-coated ones to make a person feel better.

This story began about 5 years ago. I met a girl through a friend. We will call her "Jane." When we started dating, I mistook infatuation for love and made the mistake of telling her my feelings, since I don't like to hide my emotions. She reciprocated in a fashion that I appreciated and after a month, we were "in love." What I didn't know at the time is that she was crazy. Literally crazy, like sociopath crazy. She isn't exactly a bad person, but while we were together, she always mentioned her crush from when she was 13 on this guy that I will name, "John." I never thought anything of it because he was a friend of the family, married, and she had supposedly gotten over her crush. After 3 months together, he decided to give her a ride to her brother's house since my car was packed with her mom, mom's boyfriend, and her other brother. I trusted her and when we got there, she wasn't anywhere to be found. An hour passed and she hadn't shown up. I began to worry that they got into an accident and called. She said they got lost, which confused me since she was always the person who gave me directions to her brother's house. I brushed it off because of my misplaced trust. When I saw her, we stayed up all night, but she was kind of stand-offish. Early morning came, everyone was asleep but us, and so we went for a drive because she needed to tell me something. When we got to the nearest empty parking lot, she told me that she had given John a nice kiss in another area, but she stopped before too long because all she could think about was me and how much she loved me. I was baffled because first off, she was honest, which never happens. Secondly, she didn't want to break up with me for him, but rather wanted to stay permanently with me. I wasn't sure of my feelings at the moment, so I decided since she was honest and knew her feelings, I would stay because I was happy with her. The next day, however, that changed into hatred of her because she called her friends to brag about what she got to do. After a week of deliberation on what to do, I decided to break it off with her. After ending it, I had trouble actually leaving since she wouldn't let me go. I had to eventually run to my car, get in, lock the doors, and drive as fast as I could. After leaving, my phone didn't stop ringing for the next 36 hours from her calling non-stop. I finally answered and told her it was over, but we talked and I started feeling bad since I did care for her, so I decided to give it another chance. My biggest mistake yet. After a couple weeks, things were just horrible. I couldn't get over what happened and I realized that my feelings for her were infatuation, so I ended it again. This time, however, she seemed to take it better, until I caught her taking a bunch of heavy narcotics. This hit my guilty conscience and made me call an ambulance and decide to stay with her, because I have never been a selfish person and I live to make others happy. I am happy if others are. I couldn't stand it, so ended it again a little while later. She literally found ways to hack into all my internet stuff, followed me everywhere, all while non-stop calling. I would have called the police, but I had seen this act before with my grandma's ex who, after the restraining order, almost killed her. So, being unable to decide what to do, decided to go back, yet again, but not fully. I know, this was stupid, but this way, I had a life outside of her reach. If I was with her, she left me alone when I wasn't at her house.

Another problem I caused through this is that I didn''t tell my family, who I lived with, about what happened and lied, for the first time since I was 3, and told them she was gone. I decided to "stay" with her until I could find either a way to make her so sad that she wouldn't want me or until I could come up with another solution. This has been going on for almost 4 years now, and about a year and a half ago, I fell in love with a girl I will name Stacey. There was, and still is, no doubt that it's love. Stacey and I met through a mutual friend and this time, I knew from the moment I saw her that I loved her and that she did me also. After a day or so, I asked her out and we had the most wonderful time of our lives. I told her all about my problem and with her help, found a way to get rid of Jane. It worked. I finally was happy and had gotten rid of my crazy, stalker ex. Things were going well until Stacey, while completely drunk, near pass out, had sex with another man. The man, Jerry, didn't know she was in a relationship and she didn't know who he was when it happened. The problem is that she has an overly guilty conscience and couldn't forgive herself. I actually had no problems with it because I love her so much it didn't matter, as long as it wasn't a repeated offense. She tried to forget it, but the guy then decided he wanted to do it more with her, after finding out about me. He even told me that all he wanted was her body. She felt like it was the right thing to do to go with him instead of me to let me find someone better. After roughly 7 months, she had actually grown to like him when the inevitable had happened. He cheated on her and dumped her. I have been her friend through all of this since that's what we started as. She is my best friend as well as the woman I love. The problem I had this time was while I was drunk and Stacey was still with Jerry, I didn't remember it, but I ended up sleeping with Jane since she found me drunk. She ended up pregnant. Now, she had decided to get rid of it if I stayed, but I still don't know my feelings on abortion, so I tried to figure out what to do since Stacey doesn't like kids and I am not a big fan of them either. I ended up deciding that I was okay enough with abortion to do what I hated most to do, but would hopefully lead to the better ending. My family and friends all know the truth now, but it hasn't undone all the lies I had made. I don't know if I will ever forgive myself for lying to the people I cared about. The only problem is that everything with Jane is at square one again, Stacey isn't bothered by that since she has known the story, but she isn't sure about dating me since she had hurt me. She also said that she needed to learn to love herself either way before she dated anyone, and I know that's true. She has needed to do that for a long time, but she is very strong-willed and independent, so she needed to learn to do that herself.

Now, before I ask for my advice, I should note that earlier, I mentioned that I don't like lies. I realize this is kind of hypocritical since I mentioned lying in my story, but I don't lie anymore except to Jane, mostly because I don't know what to do about that situation. The thing I need advice/help on is what to do about Jane, how to convince Stacey that it's alright and that love is what should prevail, and how to undo the massive wrongs of the years of wrongdoing. If anyone can help, I would greatly appreciate it and I would hope that you won't judge me too strongly for my decisions because I know how wrong some of them were. Also, more than anything else, don't judge Stacey too harshly either since she is a good person at heart, but lost. I know her well and I am a fairly good judge of goodness in people. Thank you all beforehand on all advice/help.

 

[Ipsen]

Bit of a mindfuck there, sir I must say. You have my sympathy. As far as the lying goes, I really wasn't bothered by it the way you probably think I should be, so hopefully all affected by it feel somewhat similar.

Jane: Simple fact of the matter is you are not in love with her and really you want nothing to do with her really, right? I understand the whole fear of the OD and the fact she is a few plates short of a full set, but you can't sacrifice your life just for the sake of her having some form of commitment towards you when really her "kissing" this guy could be one of the luckiest things that has ever happened to you seeing as it ultimately led to Stacey. I think you could point the finger at many people for what happened. Including yourself, but I think you should really just tell her to get the fuck out of your life and explain to her that and that it doens't matter what she does and you will always feel like that.

Stacey: How to win her heart back so to speak? You need to give her the confidence to know that it is okay. I suppose the best way to do this is by sharing something you both do together and enjoy. Make her know that you are aware it wont happen again and that you love her dearly and this doesn't matter. I mean...after all the shit you went through, it's just as bad so you should be able to have a sort of common ground about it. I guess she just needs a lot of reassurances.

Trust: It takes time to build up again, especially after lying so don't expect an easy solution to this sir. Though I would defiantely reccomend just staying in their good books. Handing out favours and so on. Not so they are taking advantage, but just enough to know that you're aware of any wrongdoings and trying to rectify them. I think the closer these people are to you, the easier it will be to forgive. In my eyes, there's nothing really there I wouldn't forgive you for and I don't know you so I am sure someone closer to you is just a little dissapointed rather than disgusted and lost all respect for you, you know?

I guess a sound piece of advice here would be "moderation in everything" and that you should probably tackle one problem at a time. I guess I would go for it in the order of how I had written them, but only because I think you need to get Jane out of your life before anything will start looking liek the way it should, you know?

I wish you good luck it with either way =D Hope it works out and hope I made sense and was a little helpful.

 

[chronotrigger]

You were very helpful and I thank you for that. What you said also means that I am already on the right track as I have been trying to get the, for lack of better words, balls to finally go all out on Jane. I have also been doing most of what you offered as advice for Stacey. Also, all of my friends and family have already forgiven me, but I still feel bad. I have a guilty conscience just like Stacey, which could be a bad thing, but I don't like doing wrongs to the people close to me, you know. They all forgave me as soon as I told them the truth with a little disappointment, but I haven't fully forgiven myself, I guess you could say. Either way, thank you so much for the advice. It was extremely helpful.

 

[Shu]

What it comes down to is simple for me, you were cheated on by both. It's up to you if you want to try to repair your trust with either. In my opinion both are subject to scrutiny. Listen, I know we've all heard it's okay to forgive a few times with cheating and stuff, but seriously, how low will you go to keep someone you love that does not reciprocate it?

My opinion both girls are a no go. From what it seems like Jane needs help if she's popping pills. The other thing is Stacy is an oversexed girl. If you can't satisfy her sexual needs, then it's possible she won't love you the same way physically. Now to my experience in the circuit of love, guys are girls are similar to eachother, meaning one either places the dominant male, or the dominant female, and cheats on the other if they choose to. It's a conscious choice, don't sit there and say "alcohol" did it due to the fact only a roofy can give alter that type of behavior.

I hate to say it, Stacy lied to you. She might have kept lying to you. Now at least Jane was more honest with you, though neither can be helped. Move on with your life, that's all I can give you. It'll hurt, but it'll make you a lot stronger. Just don't do what they did to you, I've made that mistake and cheated on someone before. Anyways.. Later yo!

 

[Sepalcure]

I agree with Shu honestly, both girls weren't very loyal to you at all. You have Stacy who slept with someone else while she was drunk and then even left you to go to this guy for sexual gratification and to let you find someone better. Then you have Jane who clearly needs a psychiatric evaluation, poor girl, she sounds clingy, possessive, and lonely. I'm a forgiving person myself and I've been guilty of letting people's faulty decisions and shitty choices slip through the cracks of my dam, but don't let that happen to you. Fool me once, fool me twice, but on the third time that's absolutely it. You have to set your limits my dude, I understand that you deeply care and love Stacy but don't you think it would be better to consider letting her go to find herself, to really figure out what she needs most in life? For all you know, the best thing for her would probably be to remain single until she can prioritize herself and forgive herself for her wrongdoings. You should absolutely support her on her journey of self discovery, you know call her to check in, maybe hang out, but take some time for yourself too.

You've been through quite a lot sounds like, and you need to repair a few broken dams yourself. Firstly your family, you've been lying to them. You need to right the wrongs there before you even consider taking a step towards Stacy and re-entering her life, let her consider what she needs to do while you fix your family's trust in you. As Ipsen said, trust takes a tremendously long time to rebuild as you know, and while having a spouse or romantic partner is nice, there is no greater amount of people in the entire world than your family. So please, I'd urge you to tell them the truth of what you went through for the past few years because they absolutely deserve that from you, I'm certain.

If Stacy wants to return to you, then wait for her to come to you and decide on whether you want her back. Personally, I feel that it would be best for you to lay low until you find someone loyal, respectful, independent, and truly considerate for your feelings. Cheating on someone is unacceptable, no matter how forthcoming this person was (Jane) or ashamed they were about it (Stacy); so my two cents is this: take some time for yourself, distance yourself from Stacy and Jane, give yourself some time to breathe, and find yourself as well. You can never do enough reflective soul searching, it really helps to backtrack and see what you did wrong, what the person did wrong, what you could have done, what they could have done sooner, etc. in these situations.

A little more on Jane before I wrap this up, you could if you want to help her find someone to talk to: a therapist or something. She needs clinical help it sounds like, since she's displaying these obsessive patterns (i.e: incessant phone calling, stalking, online stalking, etc.), you could help her deal with that. But you've got to lay it down for her, she can't meddle in the affairs of your life, it's not okay to extend her neediness for you to those forms of extremities. Calling you for 36 hours straight is definitely not okay, online stalking is not okay, giving you time and rehabilitating herself is perfectly fine and in fact necessary. Don't call her crazy to her face obviously, but just let her know that her behavior has concerned you, and that you'd be fine with helping her cope with that as a friend. You never know, Jane might just open up to you about her issues if she's aware with it.

I wish you the best of luck, dude, you sound like a very intelligent, fine, and well raised guy. I know that you'll choose the right things to do, just carry the words of wisdom and advisories that you've gotten so far and utilize the best of it. God bless.

 

[Dee]

Quite honestly, you don't need to be with either girl no matter how much you love them, or rather think you do. You've already knocked one up and both of them cheated on you. To me, this sounds like a horribly fucked up situation that isn't going to get any better. However, I don't know Jane nor do I know Stacey, so it's hard to judge what kind of people they are. That being said, according to her actions in the past, it sounds like getting back together with Stacey would be a really, really bad idea.

You said it yourself, you're a sucker for falling head over heals, jumping right into things, confessing your love and letting it turn into infatuation and then getting screwed over and screwing people over in the end. Sometimes that's not enough for people to learn from. Sometimes it is. I'm not sure if you feel you've learned your lesson quickly or thoroughly enough, but in my opinion, I think you need to work on yourself before you dive head first into another relation; especially with the same girl who you've had these problems with before.

Slow it down, take it easy. Maybe you're not thinking as rationally as you once believed?

 

[chronotrigger]

Thank you Shu, sneakerpimp441, and and Dee, you have been very insightful. I will admit that what most of you have said is most likely true, and yes, I actually have gotten Jane into therapy, which I don't know if it's helped. The one problem I have had is that I tried for that whole year to move on from Stacey. Literally, I avoided her, dated another girl (who actually turned out to be almost as crazy as Jane, but I ended it early enough), and tried to take my mind off of her. The one thing I do know is that this isn't infatuation, because I know that no matter what, even if she and I never end up together, I can live with it as long as she's happy. She is a good friend to me, without the relationship aspect, as well. I have been letting her have her space, and we hang out as friends. I just don't know how to get my mind off of her enough to move onto other prospects as I have been trying for a year. Also, as far as my family and friends are concerned with trust, I have already fixed it, but it seems to be more the constant guilt I feel for what I had done that I can't get over. I will definitely keep all of the advice I gain here into consideration. I also have been working on me for a very long time. I have accepted things that I like and don't like about myself. I know who I am and what I can/cannot do. I also know that I did need help and that help came from a therapist. I am normally kind of a hermit and introverted, but I am also basically the leader, as I put it, of my group of friends as well as immediate family. I am the person whom everyone comes to for advice, answers, and plans. I have become good at that as well as fitting the part perfectly. I know there's more to learn, because there always is. I am always learning something and I will say that I rarely make the same mistake twice. I do want to thank you all again for your advice. I appreciate it. I will take some more personal time to look over my feelings, your advice, and my own logic/reason. I do want to add one thing that is not supposed to be a shot at anyone, but Stacey was honest with me. She told me what happened as soon as she woke up. I do also know that alcohol doesn't cause things of that nature, but it does lower standards as well as clear thinking. I forgave her because I believe that we had something great and that was just a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes, but repeated offenses are the problem with mistakes of this magnitude. Just thought I would tell you my reason for my belief on that.

 

[Dee]

It's good to hear that while you still love Stacey, you can just be happy knowing she is happy. It kind of shows you are on your way to mending things, but it does sound like you need some more time.

I can only speak for myself and my beliefs in such a situation like the whole sleeping with someone after drinking alcohol thing. This is just my personal opinion, but I believe that the choice begins when the alcohol is poured into the cup, not after. That conscious decision to inebriate ones senses (let's be honest, I'm sure that's what she was going for) was made of her own free will and the consequences come with the action of choosing to do so regardless of what happens as a result (unless in cases where rape occurs, then that's kind of hardly out of ones control).

Anyway, I guess maybe I'm a little harsh, but I like to try and hold people to a certain standard; at least the ones I know are capable of being strong and holding their head up high in tight spots. I'm not saying one can't have a difficult time or find themselves in a slump--not at all--it happens to the best of us. But things like cheating are never okay in my book. And getting drunk is never an excuse for that. I find it pitiful and pathetic, especially if one is in a committed relationship. It's different when it's casual and both parties acknowledge that.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders. You should feel that way, too. I wish you the best of luck in figuring out everything.

 

[chronotrigger]

First off, I would like to say thanks for the compliment at the end, and I would also like to add that in my book, there is no such thing as too harsh. Not directed at me, anyways. Also, I will agree it was her decision to drink and to have fun and inebriate herself, thus lowering her senses. I guess that this whole "falling in love" thing just sucks because I am not one to be alright with cheating.

My first 2 ex's cheated on me and I never forgave them, especially when the first ex cheated on her now husband by raping me. You can take that however you want to, but men can be raped and she did rape me. I make jokes about it now, of course, because it's easier to handle that way. Third ex cheated on me and I couldn't handle it. Stacey, for some reason I forgave her instantly and still do. That is my problem and I will admit that I have a tendency to defend her, which is why I use excuses as to why she did it. I guess I am still justifying my reasoning, I think more for her than anyone else. I just wish either it would work out with her or I could move on past her.

I would like to add that I like the fact that you do hold people to standards, because that's an admirable quality. I used to, but now, with this whole fiasco, I guess my standards lowered a bit. I will hopefully not leave everyone feeling like their advice was ignored by hopefully doing the right thing, so, thanks for the best wishes, I will need them. I will let you all know how it turns out.

 

[Dee]

Definitely give us an update on how things go. Like I said, you should as you've got a good head on your shoulders, so you definitely be proud of that and use it to your benefit. Set standards for yourself, what you can and can't tolerate; what you will or will not--absolutely, no way, hands down--and find someone who can meet or at least is willing to try. Willingness a good thing.

You should really be focusing on you, what you're looking for in a girl, what you hope she's willing to settle and also what you might be willing to settle for. Just talk these things out. Without the communication, it doesn't work.

 

[chronotrigger]

Well, for an update, I have finally gotten rid of Jane for good with some well-placed logic, arguments, and lots of yelling and cursing. I regret to say that she destroyed the guitar I had helped her pick out, as I have a huge sadness within me that I played a small part in that guitars demise. Either way, she is gone and I actually think it is for good this time. I just need to be wary of where I go drinking and who I am with when I do so. Thank you all for your advice and help. There is really no update on Stacey, but things will either pan out or they won't. It should help drastically now that a huge burden of stress has been lifted from my shoulders. I do greatly appreciate all the help and support I got from all of you. I can finally get back to helping others instead of needing help.