Nihilism

[Tethar]

Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes--epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness--have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end of the century, existential despair as a response to nihilism gave way to an attitude of indifference, often associated with antifoundationalism.

The above is taken from "The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy."
http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm

Nihilism has been commented on many times over the 20th centuary and still is today. Among philosophical circles there is the belif that Nihilism is the single greatest threat to the future of Humanity.

What I relate is the history of the next two centuries. I describe what is coming, what can no longer come differently: the advent of nihilism. . . . For some time now our whole European culture has been moving as toward a catastrophe, with a tortured tension that is growing from decade to decade: restlessly, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end. . . .

-(Will to power)

Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

-William Shakespeare

I have made this thread so that we might discuss this possible threat and what it means for all of us our lives and the lives of those close to us and the lives of every Human being born and yet to be born.

I praise, I do not reproach, [nihilism's] arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength. It is possible. . . .

-(Complete Works Vol. 13)


For those who need more info follow the link near the top of this post to an excellent site with Philosophical infomation on it.

I myself am a Nihilistic person I do not belive there is any meaning or purpose to life. Everyone of us will die and then what will be left of us, nothing perhaps not. We leave behind memories possesions what we have acomplished with our life. Some would say this gives life meaning because we have had an impact on others and the world.
I disagree simply because even if we have an impact, that impact too will fade away as we do. Everything you do will fade into memory and be swept away by time. How then could anything possible have any meaning when it will disappear? I say it does not, everything ends not just us not just those that come after us but this entire world will one day end and everything the Human race has accomplished here will simply cease to exist.
That is the truth of reality, if there is a purpose to life it is simply to die. That is what we live for to stop living. I see no other reason no other purpose and as we all know there is no denying purpose no escaping reason. My apologise for the Matrix quote but it is the truth whether you feel as if you can face it or not. Can you in all honesty look at what will happen you growing old and dying and the same thing happening to whomever you leave behind. Then this entire world, solar system, galaxy, and universe ending because they will and look me in the eye and tell me life has meaning other then death?


There are many forms of Nihilism mine is a more modern one but they all hold some relevance to the world.

What do you think?

 

[der Astronom]

Perhaps life has meaning, perhaps it doesn't. People often ask the question of if life has meaning, but few truly go to find out what it is. They leave it to organized religion to tell them what it is, but how can they be so sure it's what they want and is true? Why does meaning have such a "concrete" concept of God? It just seems much too distinct for that to be an actual meaning. Furthermore, "meaning" is relative to whoever holds it. Everyone does not have the same purpose in life. From a strictly logical perspective, we do not have meaning in life. No meaning for existence exists at all. We exist, perhaps to find out what our purpose in life is through experiences, or to find that maybe there is no purpose at all, and that nothing I do and nothing I am will account for a purposeful life. Simply put, we all don't have the same meaning or purpose in life; the purpose we hold should be one that suits us best. So initially, we have no purpose, except one that we make up for ourselves. I believe it to be much better than simply following organized religion. Few of them will agree with me though.

To entertain the notion of existentialism, I would suggest reading Jean Paul Sartre's works, as well as that of Albert Camus, and his short story, "The Guest". Existentialism is similar to what I have discussed above. That is, life initially has no meaning, but only by making the right choices for yourself do you give life meaning. And by making the right choices, I mean that they are the choices you agree with and feel comfortable with; not choices that other people force or impose on you.

As for myself, I am also a bit nihilistic. I'd like to entertain the idea that nothing matters because we will all disappear, sooner or later, and it doesn't matter when. Few people have criticized nihilism by saying that people who are nihilists are just lazy. But it takes much to understand this concept and accept it. Because few people refuse to consider the fact that life is meaningless. It is because many people hold life in high regard and do not wish to throw it away. That's not to say that nihilists want to throw their lives away; perhaps they don't care at all. I can accept the fact that maybe there is no meaning in life afterall; but to understand and come to terms with this concept would require that my brain not be lazy. Some people find it hard to understand the concept of nothingness, meaninglessness and purposelessness. It is because we ask ourselves; perhaps I shouldn't be lazy, I'll accomplish something. But what does it mean to me if no one acknowledges it, or the people who do will die, as will the entire human race? Who cares? What if I don't want someone to acknowledge it because it's a personal accomplishment, or what if I don't appreciate it myself? What meaning does it still hold?

If nihilism destroys humanity, I could care less. The path that humanity chooses now will end in destruction, regardless of if nihilism takes its toll. Well, I've already lost hope in humanity anyways.

 

[Tethar]

I knew you would recognise my views as Existential Nihilism, Angelus well done just what I would expect of you.

I do not belive in "The meaning of life" but others do and one reason for this is religion. I hate religion it is a symbol of Humanities weakness and inability to accept the truth. There is no meaning of life no higher purpose there is only death. Everything is senseless, empty, pointless, and meaningless. Yet religions spring up everywere trying to console the people saying there is someone who loves them if only they obey there rules.

Religion would be so much easier to acept if they did not make the misake of useing it to controll people. But I digress. Religion exists because of peple trying to make others feel better and to control them. It does not give any real meaning to existance it simply invents something plausable and preaches it is absolute truth. Invent is not the right word however as the dogma of every religion has been fundimentay the same as everyone of it predecessors.

By the late 20th century, "nihilism" had assumed two different castes. In one form, "nihilist" is used to characterize the postmodern man, a dehumanized conformist, alienated, indifferent, and baffled, directing psychological energy into hedonistic narcissism or into a deep ressentiment that often explodes in violence. This perspective is derived from the existentialists' reflections on nihilism stripped of any hopeful expectations, leaving only the experience of sickness, decay, and disintegration.

In contrast to the efforts to overcome nihilism noted above is the uniquely postmodern response associated with the current antifoundationalists. The philosophical, ethical, and intellectual crisis of nihilism that has tormented modern philosophers for over a century has given way to mild annoyance or, more interestingly, an upbeat acceptance of meaninglessness.

Many say Nihilism is a bad view saying that existance is meaningless could only lead to so called evil acts. I however disagree as quoted above there are those that have an "upbeat acceptance of meaninglessness." I am one of those people, as I see it if life is meaningless then I can do what ever I wish because in the end it doesn't even matter. So whether I choose to pursue the life of a philsopher as I have. Or try to blow up the Tower of Londen, it does not matter because in the end the results are all the same. I die and everything else ceases to exist eventualy.

Our ultimate Fate is the same no matter what we do. Our true purpose is not effected by what action we take so as I see it. I can do whatever I wish.

 

[der Astronom]

Destruction of humanity and the adverse effect of nihilism can only be seen that way by those who are not nihilistic. I once discussed this with a colleague while walking through the campus that nihilism is actually a nice position to take. It's because you can't sink lower than meaninglessness; you can't feel "worse" than you already are. If there turned out to be meaning in life, then all the better; at least it's better than feeling upset at the fact that God didn't exist, or that the purpose you held all along did not exist.

In a sense, religion is a more advanced and stronger method of creating meaning in life. Unfortunately, it has the force of making a group of people mindlessly believe that it's true, whether they think of it or not. I don't like this though because it defeats the true purpose of being human; of being able to think freely and decide if those morals are the ones one would like to have. And thus people are made mindless by organized religion. It's ironic to note that while Christians generally say that God loves them, their bible is filled with horrible, horrible accounts of God's actions, which if someone reads it without knowing that God is supposed to be loving, they would find that God is not loveable at all; they would fear him instead, and life would not have the kind of meaning we would like it to have. That kind of meaning would make life miserable. In terms of existentialism, you would fail to give yourself meaning if you submitted to this idea. It is because you do not accept it for yourself; you make a choice which was influenced by a book, and because you latch onto it so firmly with faith, but not thought, your life becomes meaningless. In Christianity, how can there be any consolation from the unknown if you can say "God" and "loving" in one sentence, and associate God with death, racism and horrible, horrible crimes against humanity in another?

 

[Tethar]

Destruction of humanity and the adverse effect of nihilism can only be seen that way by those who are not nihilistic. I once discussed this with a colleague while walking through the campus that nihilism is actually a nice position to take. It's because you can't sink lower than meaninglessness; you can't feel "worse" than you already are. If there turned out to be meaning in life, then all the better; at least it's better than feeling upset at the fact that God didn't exist, or that the purpose you held all along did not exist.

In a sense, religion is a more advanced and stronger method of creating meaning in life. Unfortunately, it has the force of making a group of people mindlessly believe that it's true, whether they think of it or not. I don't like this though because it defeats the true purpose of being human; of being able to think freely and decide if those morals are the ones one would like to have. And thus people are made mindless by organized religion. It's ironic to note that while Christians generally say that God loves them, their bible is filled with horrible, horrible accounts of God's actions, which if someone reads it without knowing that God is supposed to be loving, they would find that God is not loveable at all; they would fear him instead, and life would not have the kind of meaning we would like it to have. That kind of meaning would make life miserable. In terms of existentialism, you would fail to give yourself meaning if you submitted to this idea. It is because you do not accept it for yourself; you make a choice which was influenced by a book, and because you latch onto it so firmly with faith, but not thought, your life becomes meaningless. In Christianity, how can there be any consolation from the unknown if you can say "God" and "loving" in one sentence, and associate God with death, racism and horrible, horrible crimes against humanity in another?

A good view to take because it is the lowest perception so anything else seems good. Interesting point though I care not. I do not take the Nihilistic route because it makes each day seem nicer I follow this path because it is what I know to be true.

With your second sentence you have pointed out the worst flaws and ironies in Christianity save the bggest one which is that its all a big lie.

God is described as an all loving deity by Christians, I love to hear that and then go read the countless examples of that God destrying thousand upon thousands of Humans for the most trivial reasons. Like just randomly choosing sides in a small tribal war. Then whiping out an entire city on the grounds that people were having a little too much sex and drink.

Please how trivial I hate the way Christians take a baisic biological function, without which we would not exist and make it evil. Any way you are correct to point out the ironies in Christianity and they apply to other religions aswell. They promisee meaning and purpose in life whn in reality they are nothing more then a bunch of badly thought out lies which attract the weak minded who can not accept there fate.


oh no offence to any religious people this is not a thread for insulting religions.

 

[der Astronom]

Well, Christianity at its worst is like a blatant advertisement. If you take the bible literally, and believe it's your "mission" to convert people because they'd otherwise go to hell. Unfortunately, religion exists so that you'll have something to believe in, and possibly have meaning in life (which only works if you agree with it; not blindly accept it), but there's nothing about religion that should be hurting or intervening with other people's lifestyles. That's the only real problem I have with Christianity. The literal concepts in the bible and the people who make Christianity look even worse by violating other people's rights to have their own religion. Nihilism included. Though that's more like a philosophical position more than anything.

I mentioned the lowest rung being Nihilism just as a plus for it. It's obviously not the only reason why I would be nihilist, but it works just as well. I would very much respect people being able to have nihilism as a worldview because it doesn't imply that you would go out of your way to harm someone. You just are that; meaningless and nothingness because of what you see in the world. It's a strong position to take though because then you'll know what you want; you will not be blind to what religion tells people. It makes you less gullible and susceptible to the tenets of other religions and things that people tell you. Sketicism should be highly valued, but the church denounces this. One can only wonder why...And this is why I said it takes much to understand and come to terms with nihilism: you must be skeptical of the underlyings of the natural world; you must doubt the fact or idea that maybe you were put here for a reason because nothing collectively leads you to such a conclusion, except for yourself. You can make your mind say, "I am God!" but still know that it was your own mind that said it.

 

[Tethar]

I know what you mean by "blatent advertising" Most other religions respect each other. There is one religion avtually forrbiden from trying to convert others Muslims I think but not sure.
Christians however go around saying we are all danmed to hell because we do not do as they do. Talk about being afraid of what is different which is all that it is in the end. I fear of that which is not that same.
Of course Jehova's whitnesses are the worst of the bunch as we all are aware, though they might be considered extemists even by christitian standards.

Of course all of this stems from their own fear of their true fate, to die.
It is quite possible that Nihilism is the view that takes the most mental streangth and will. After all not all people can stare into the abyss and openly acknoeledge to their own hearts that it is their fate to fall in one day and fade aay.
Some people are addicted to life, it may seem like a strange thing to say but it is true. They cling to life and what they belive to be normal. That is why Humans are so obssesed with material objects because it makes them feel safe because they think od it as a real object and is familier. It reminds them they exist. That is something people can not accet that they will not always be. It scares most people the fact they will fade away and that is why it takes great strength or great depresion to accept Nihilism totally.

I do accept it totally I know I am going to die and fade away. There will be nothing left of me. I accept that for is the only real truth of life.

We ive only to die, and I am alright with that for if that is the true meaning of life if that is my fate. Then there is nothing I can do about it. I accept fate because we are weak creatures.

 

[der Astronom]

Other Christians would have you know that they don't fear death because it's not the ultimate means to everything. In fact, some of them think that life is cruel, and that only by having faith in God can you go to heaven and enjoy a good afterlife. To most secularists, this would be considered a fearful perspective to take because then murder no longer matters, and you can't account for the fact that people become very upset and saddened by deaths; they aren't necessarily meaningless; people have difficulty living without loved ones. Maybe then we would ask: Is it worse to believe that death is acceptable because it is the means to our inevitable end, and nothing we do changes it, sooner or later, or is it worse to believe that death is acceptable because of faith? Personally, the former is more mechanistical and acceptable. Because as I've said, it just is; that's all there is to it; no moral purpose, no meaning; faith is not external to the mind.

Fate is a difficult one. I personally don't believe in fate. We may be able to predict what happens in the future, but we often should leave room for the unexpected. Perhaps you mean that we are all doomed to death, but if it is the truth, and very highly probable, it is one that I willingly accept. To live forever would make life very boring. You often have to wonder how foolish it is for those who desire to become immortal. Then they will realize that they are left to their own devices, and can no longer enjoy life.

 

[Tethar]

While Christians point out that they do nor fear death because they are good people and will go to heaved while we will burn in hell. In reality it is they who fear death.
They can not except the end so they create the idea of heaven to escape from the reality of their own end. If they are going to heaven then they will never truly die for feath is the end. This is one of the main reasons for the popularity of religions of all sorts. They give people the ability to escape the reality of death. That would be fair enough I can live with people deluding themselves to stop themselves falling to the floor are and crying in despair for they are too weak to acept the truth.
BUT they have the nerve to try and pull us into there little delusion aswell. This they do with the idea of hell of varying other ideas of bad places for those who do not conform to their religion. This is just plain hypocrisy. They can not except the truth and are jealous of those who can so they say we are the ones who can not except the truth and we will suffer forever more because of it, such arrogance!

Well let them delude them selves I will continue on as I do in the knowledge that no eternal paradise or ultimate enlightenment of ressurection or reincarnation awaits any of them. The only thinh that will happen to them when they die is that they will die. Death is the end and I accept that whole heartedly because this death is a true blessing for it is the end of all pain and all suffering.

oh and in terms of Fate. I mean that we are fated to die that is the only true fate for any of us.

 

[der Astronom]

Well, if we are fated to death, I for one, gladly accept it. Some Christians are arrogant enough to say that we are influenced by Satan if we do not believe in God. It's just like what you say about Christians being jealous that we have the ability to accept death for what it is, and not paint fancy pictures on it and dance around it. Death is death, there's no avoiding it, and not even God can give comfort to it. In fact, I might add that God makes it worst. They just don't see it that way. I once read a Christian pamphlet that made the claim that Christianity makes people stronger. This was in response to an argument that Christianity is just a crutch for weak minded people. However, Christianity makes the mind blind and weak with faith, so actually, it makes it worse. It's really just a poor set of crutches for weak minded people.

Death is inevitable. We may not know everything. Why should we fear any of these things? Do we fear that which we do not know? Why is there any reason to be less fearful of things in which we make up because we don't know? That's not any better now, is it? Nihilism says it's not important to know any of these things. Heck, it's not important to know anything except for the fact that nothing matters. This is why I've always said God's omnipotence and omniscience do not amaze me. A being who has all the power in the world to change things and save people is hardly amazing, compared to someone who doesn't, and develops the ability to do so. A being who knows everything does not amaze me either; it is what he chooses to do with this knowledge that is important.

 

[Tethar]

Very interesting view that nothing can give comfort for death.
However I belive that in the face of death we do not need comfort as it is a Good thing. That may sound a little strange but think about it logically, true at first the idea of dying may seem horrible because it is the end of your life, and true little children dying in the street brings tears to most peoples eyes, though not mine.

However Death can be a good thing. Tell me if you had the choice between liveing the rest of your life with say no arms or legs or dying peacefully on the table which would you choose?

Important truth that I think should be tought in schools.

There are fates worse then death.

It is the truth sometimes it is better to lay down and die when the suffering is just too much. If death was personafied the he would be the ultimate Docter, the only one who would take care of you when you need it most of all. The one who will end all pain when it becomes too much to bear.
Anyone who has read the Discworld series may recognise that descrpition of him.

Even though Death is not a sentient thing it is still the greatest mercy in our lives. If there were a God then his gretest gift would be death. Human beings are mortal for a reason, simply because we are not immortal.

So I agree with you totally Angelus, religion does make the matter worse. By making some people belive in a devil or the possibility of a suffering after life they begin to fear death and that is what makes things like Euthanasia and abortion which can be the greatest of mercy and save lives, illegal.


Death is inevitable so fearing it is not only as pointless as life itself but quite a stupid idea for death is perhaps the only truly good thing in our entire lives.

 

[der Astronom]

Well, death is good because I don't want my intelligence to go to waste. If I lived forever, boredom would consume me, and my intelligence would be wasted. So I would rather let death end it all instead.

Fear of death is more common in people who believe they have much to live for, whether they are right or wrong about that. Again, it's the evolutionary desire to survive and live that comes into play--if we had no desire to live, we would not survive to reproduce and contribute to the human race. Fear of death could also be because it terminates that which allows you to accomplish something, and to die before being able to see it through would make people unhappy. The funny thing is that you shouldn't care if you die. If someone just made up that story about heaven and hell, we're just fearing over nothing. But in the end, the nihilist does not fear death because he has nothing to live for, and nothing that requires accomplishment before death. Perhaps it can be said that we could achieve something, but we would be equally as happy to have not achieved it. It is important to also accept the fact that I may not be able to achieve something I hope to accomplish. It may be possible, but the possibility is that even if I can, I may not. Lots of things can happen.

 

[Tethar]

Well, death is good because I don't want my intelligence to go to waste. If I lived forever, boredom would consume me, and my intelligence would be wasted. So I would rather let death end it all instead.

Fear of death is more common in people who believe they have much to live for, whether they are right or wrong about that. Again, it's the evolutionary desire to survive and live that comes into play--if we had no desire to live, we would not survive to reproduce and contribute to the human race. Fear of death could also be because it terminates that which allows you to accomplish something, and to die before being able to see it through would make people unhappy. The funny thing is that you shouldn't care if you die. If someone just made up that story about heaven and hell, we're just fearing over nothing. But in the end, the nihilist does not fear death because he has nothing to live for, and nothing that requires accomplishment before death. Perhaps it can be said that we could achieve something, but we would be equally as happy to have not achieved it. It is important to also accept the fact that I may not be able to achieve something I hope to accomplish. It may be possible, but the possibility is that even if I can, I may not. Lots of things can happen.

I wonder if I would find eternity boring? If there were life around intelligent life then I could keep myself amused because I enjoy whatchin the progress of civilizations. However normal unitelligent life bores me and though I could not care less whether I live or die as it matters not, death would be prefrable.

I find it strange that people can belive they have something to live for even though they will still die. I can see ow the impluse to survive that all living creatures have would mean that some might fear death but still. A desire to live and reroduce does not automatically mean you should fear death so I think those people are mearly weak willed.

Acomplishing something is as meaningless as life because what you acomplish will fade away in time. However I know some people still try because they belive it gives their lives meaning. Though fearing death because you know it will stop you doing something? What that something is would have to be very dear to you or incredible important to you or someone you care about to provoke such a sever response.

You are right in that you must accept that even if you desire to do something it may be impossible for you to actually achieve that something. For example doind a piece of art that becomes world famous you may want to but it may ot happen. It is important you accept that.

I am glad to be nihilistic in this respect because I know nothing is worth doing as there is no point in acomplishing anything. As such I do not entertain any fooloish ideals of doing something. It is all pointless so I will do with my life as I wish for in the end it doesn't even matter.

 

[der Astronom]

Well then, death isn't the only thing that will stop you from accomplishing something, so why not fear all the other things that will? Or how about don't fear any of them at all?

One would say that nihilists are weak willed because we do not desire anything. I don't think I would like to put it that way though because we can't help it. If there truly was nothing in the world that mattered, there is nothing that we can desire. We choose to have that viewpoint, not because we are weak willed, but because we are intelligent enough to see that view, and for what it is, we choose not to do anything. Nihilism may also just be a way to accept the fact that we don't have to accomplish anything. That is, maybe I do want to achieve or accomplish something to a degree, but I'm not going to stress myself out on just trying to accomplish something. I may try, but in the end, it does not matter which outcome occurs; fail, succeed, any one of those outcomes could occur, and they will; and that's all that matters.

Fear of death is as silly as fear of the unknown. People try to mask them with religion, but it can backfire, like in the case of Christianity. Fear of death and fear of the unknown exist to be understood, not turned away from and made to govern one's own life horrendously. Neither fear of death nor fear of the unknown can be understood by making up stuff about it; people must learn to face them and accept them as they come. I believe intelligence, which every person should have, no matter how little, will help you to understand and accept fear of death and fear of the unknown.

 

[Tethar]

One would say that nihilists are weak willed because we do not desire anything. I don't think I would like to put it that way though because we can't help it. If there truly was nothing in the world that mattered, there is nothing that we can desire. We choose to have that viewpoint, not because we are weak willed, but because we are intelligent enough to see that view, and for what it is, we choose not to do anything. Nihilism may also just be a way to accept the fact that we don't have to accomplish anything. That is, maybe I do want to achieve or accomplish something to a degree, but I'm not going to stress myself out on just trying to accomplish something. I may try, but in the end, it does not matter which outcome occurs; fail, succeed, any one of those outcomes could occur, and they will; and that's all that matters.

There is nothing I can actually say in response to that simply because I agree with you totally on that point.

Fear of death is as silly as fear of the unknown. People try to mask them with religion, but it can backfire, like in the case of Christianity. Fear of death and fear of the unknown exist to be understood, not turned away from and made to govern one's own life horrendously. Neither fear of death nor fear of the unknown can be understood by making up stuff about it; people must learn to face them and accept them as they come. I believe intelligence, which every person should have, no matter how little, will help you to understand and accept fear of death and fear of the unknown.

Same again I agree with you.

We should no fear something simply because we do not understand it. Doing that has led to some of the worst crimes in the history of Humanity.
Facing something with an open mind is the only way to try and understand it. I do not belive intelligence in it self is that important but it does help. I feel all someone needs is to keep an open mind and accept that things are different and what you know to be correct may infact turn out to be wrong.

This wis why I belive the following statement is true.

"Humanity will only be truly free when the last king is strangeld with the entrails of the last priest and Philosophers rule the world."

 

[der Astronom]

I wonder who said that, because it sounds very much like Ingersoll, whom I've been reading on recently. He's not exactly a philosopher, or I wouldn't consider him such, but he's a great orator that speaks out for freedom of thought and agnosticism. You can see why I even bothered to read his essays.

Armed with intelligence, we can no longer fear. It is the antagonist of fear, the one thing that keeps us going, the bane of faith, and also a bane amongst other atrocities that are a part of religion. Intelligence opens one's world to the beauty that is math, nihilism, and the greater bodies of thought that few are able to appreciate. Ever since I have met intelligence, I have reduced my fears. Faith can do none of these things. Faith will not solve equations, nor will it help anyone appreciate nothingness, nor will it reduce fears; in fact, it increases fear.

 

[Tethar]

Intelligence is alright but must be treated with repect. Also a little knowledge can be a bad thing at times. Though it is indeed better then a lot of ignorance or a little ignorance.

Your right about faith though it is the enemy of knowledge and it is perhaps the worsed path one can take for it would lead us back to the dark ages. Which are not as cool as the name suggests.

However there is one thing that is the sister to Knowlegde and with out it knowledge can be very dangerous. That thing is wisdom.
Wisdom is very important though like knowledge by itself it can be more dangerous.

Knowldge is just one part of things. After you know something you have to decide what to do with that knowledge and that is were wisdom comes into play.

 

[der Astronom]

Well, intelligence should be distinguished from knowledge. As taken from its Latin roots, "intellgence" from the verb, intellego, intellegere, intellexi, intellectum actually means "to understand". So you see, you can have a vast library of knowledge, but it will mean nothing unless you understand what it means. So simply put, intelligence is having the ability to understand a great many things. You don't have to know everything, but understand how to deal with it when you learn of it. In so saying, intelligence is antagonistic to faith because faith stems from a lack of understanding. Because you do not understand, you use faith to cling on to something regardless of if it's right or wrong; regardless of if you understand it or not. Admitting to not knowing is intellect in itself because you understand that you do not understand or know something. Faith makes people incapable of understanding that they do not understand.

Although with knowledge, you just have to know what to do with it. That is, you need the intelligence to understand it, and you need to know how to use that knowledge without abusing it. And knowledge can also be a weapon that hurts both yourself and others. It must be treated with care. But I guess that goes for intelligence as well.

So now what did you mean by wisdom being dangerous? Did I just say it?

 

[Tethar]

I think you coverd it.


Knowledge: Facts and infomation.

Intelligence: The ability to understand facts and infomation.

Wisdom: Knowing what to do with facts and infomation.


Think that summs up your last post. Thank you for your usual consise explanation.

 

[Warrior of Light]

There's some interesting points going around here so I thought I'd pop in and say my bit:

First of all, fear of death isn't bad--it's only natural to fear that which we do not understand. It's allowing that fear to control us and let it make us do stupid things, as was noted, that's where the problem comes in. People become so consumed by their mortality they forget to enjoy what time they do have. A case of taking what they do have for granted.

Life only has the meaning we give it. There is no grander shceme--none that I can see, anyways. But that dosen't mean we should be at the mercy of every bad thing that happens. Life's a bitch, but I won't allow it to make me its bitch. I hope that make sense.

Intelligence and ignorance are usually at odds with each other but not always. Sometimes a person can be truly smart but blind to the ways of the world. You can know the height, weight, age, etc. of a person, but if you can't perceive them past objective points it's all for naught. Here's where wisdom comes in. You can know that it's raining outside but if you don't know to seek shelter all the smarts in the world won't do a damn thing.

Wow, that's a bit meandering, eh?