Nihilism

That is what I meant by the distinction between intelligence and knowledge. Knowing someone's weight, height and age is knowledge, but what you do with them is intelligence.

There isn't anything entirely bad in life that makes people nihilists. In fact, one might say that nihilists don't allow the bad things to make life a bitch because they don't care at all. Bad things aren't bad, and good things aren't good. They're just things that are. I don't believe nihilists came up with the concept to deal with bad things in life; people may see it that way, but it could just as well be mutually exclusive.
 
To be truthfull I find this very thread to be pointless. What good does it do to sit here and discuss the pointlessness of everything when it is just that pointless.

I do not see anything as good or bad they do not matter nothing does. Good and evil are nothing more then perceptions of the same event. Perception means nothing other then how someone reacts to somethig.
As the end result in everything is the same, ceasing to exist then it matters not what action you take. Whther for your delusions of good and evil the end result is the same.

Nothing matters simply because no matter what you do everything ends.
 
Well, I guess discussing nihilism in itself is pointless, considering that nihilism just means that everything is pointless. This theory included. So it's a kind of paradox to instill meaning in nihilism. But it's "good" in some respects.

The strongest argument I have for there being no such thing as good or evil, and as you have said, are only perceptions, is that no universal definition of "good" exists. We don't all agree on what is "good" and what is "bad"; there is furthermore, no indication from nature that tells us what is right or wrong; as has been said before, bad things can happen to good people, and good things can happen to bad people. We can only be lead to the conclusion that good and evil do not exist; nothing we do has any bearing on what will happen to me; I won't get struck by lightning for stealing a car, and I won't get a million dollars for feeding the poor. So what meaning does this hold? Nothing? I know, however, that if I'm stupid enough to be standing under a tree during a bad day, I'll probably be struck with lightning. If I buy a lottery ticket, I may win a million dollars. However, this is just a mechanical explanation for something that can happen; stuff that we can predict. In the end, it may not be good or bad. Winning a million dollars and being struck by lightning holds no more meaning than it does to explain the mechanical cause of such events.
 
Sephiroth said:
Well, I guess discussing nihilism in itself is pointless, considering that nihilism just means that everything is pointless. This theory included. So it's a kind of paradox to instill meaning in nihilism. But it's "good" in some respects.

The strongest argument I have for there being no such thing as good or evil, and as you have said, are only perceptions, is that no universal definition of "good" exists. We don't all agree on what is "good" and what is "bad"; there is furthermore, no indication from nature that tells us what is right or wrong; as has been said before, bad things can happen to good people, and good things can happen to bad people. We can only be lead to the conclusion that good and evil do not exist; nothing we do has any bearing on what will happen to me; I won't get struck by lightning for stealing a car, and I won't get a million dollars for feeding the poor. So what meaning does this hold? Nothing? I know, however, that if I'm stupid enough to be standing under a tree during a bad day, I'll probably be struck with lightning. If I buy a lottery ticket, I may win a million dollars. However, this is just a mechanical explanation for something that can happen; stuff that we can predict. In the end, it may not be good or bad. Winning a million dollars and being struck by lightning holds no more meaning than it does to explain the mechanical cause of such events.
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It is at it is.

I must admit though I do find the paradox of trying to find meaning in Nihilism to be rather amusing. Though I am glad I do not fall into that paradox.
 
Eh, well, one could say that the meaning of nihilism is that there's no meaning, which amounts to the same thing. It's just sophistry at its finest. The word, however, comes from the Latin word "nihil" for nothing; that's about the only meaning it holds; "nothing".

One of the most common things brought up about nihilism, possibly scary, is that most people think that if you believe in nihilism and believe the world is pointless, and life has no purpose, why bother living at all? Inversely, you could say that neither life nor death have no meaning; killing oneself does not give any more meaning to life than does dying naturally; it doesn't matter whether you live or die. If you had truly believed that there was meaning in existence after death, then you may have killed yourself. Actually, I think this is even scarier than what nihilism implies, considering that Christianity's concept of heaven and hell closely parallel this thought. It's even worse because the God of the bible refuses to let people kill themselves.
 
Sephiroth said:
One of the most common things brought up about nihilism, possibly scary, is that most people think that if you believe in nihilism and believe the world is pointless, and life has no purpose, why bother living at all? Inversely, you could say that neither life nor death have no meaning; killing oneself does not give any more meaning to life than does dying naturally; it doesn't matter whether you live or die. If you had truly believed that there was meaning in existence after death, then you may have killed yourself. Actually, I think this is even scarier than what nihilism implies, considering that Christianity's concept of heaven and hell closely parallel this thought. It's even worse because the God of the bible refuses to let people kill themselves.
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I think that it is important to understand why people are scared of everything being meaningless. The idea sparks fear in people because they can not accept that they are worthless their ego will simply not allow it. Also a persons fear of death is tied in with this aswell becaause they fear death and fear fading away, they try to belive that they have meaning so they can never truly die.

This is evident through the entire history of the Human race. people try to avoid being forgotten by makin sure that people will remember them forever more. Useually by some great act or buidings and monuments.

It is simply fear of death and fear of being forgotten and becoming meaningless that inspires some of Humanities greatest acts and feats.
The drive to survive coupled with the Human ego is perhaps the reason for our entire history.
 
And don't forget that fear of death and fear of being forgotten is also held accountable for some of humanity's greatest acts of violence, terror, bloodshed and war. That does make for an interesting history, but I can't treat it much more than a storybook, if I were nihilist. We may make history, but in the end, according to nihilism, none of it matters. Whether it is forgotten or not means nothing; only the historian finds it meaningful to learn of the past, but only if it is to be important. Which reminds me that we uncover much of the past, but it's still meaningless because people still repeat the same mistakes.

I've always wondered at why people desire to not be forgotten so much. It's like they say; people fear dying poor and lonely. I never understood it. Why should you care? You're dead. You're no longer going to know what will happen after you die. You won't even know if you'll be buried or cremated. You don't know whether or not you will be forgotten. After death, it simply doesn't matter what goes on in the real world. You would most likely be incapable of finding out. Sooner or later, we will all be forgotten; we will become nothing more than a mere memory.
 
And don't forget that fear of death and fear of being forgotten is also held accountable for some of humanity's greatest acts of violence, terror, bloodshed and war. That does make for an interesting history, but I can't treat it much more than a storybook, if I were nihilist. We may make history, but in the end, according to nihilism, none of it matters. Whether it is forgotten or not means nothing; only the historian finds it meaningful to learn of the past, but only if it is to be important. Which reminds me that we uncover much of the past, but it's still meaningless because people still repeat the same mistakes.
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True very true and that leads me to an interesting fact about Humanity. What makes us very strong is also that which makes us very weak.

Things like love, hope, fear are simultaniously our greatest srengths and our greatest weaknesss.

Love gives us the power to protect the one that we care about and we can fight through even the worst hardships with our loves. However being in love makes you blind and weak, you become unable to see the faults in the one you love and they can manipulate you. Also someone who compramises theo one you love maybe by kidnapping them can bend you to their will by threatening the one you love.

"falling in love is bad it makes you weak, but being loved is good it can be profitable"

Fear is quite different but has similar results. Fear tells us when there is danger present. It can give is the ability to flee for longer with great boosts of adrenaline. However it can also stop us from fleeing from danger. Being roted to the ground with fear is a common statement. So being too afraid is very bad as it makes you inacapble of action.


It is so interesting how in humanity our greatest strengths and weaknesses are often the same thing.
 
The things that make us strong or weak will always have their ups and downs. I guess it depends on which one you choose. I myself choose not to love for the reasons you mentioned above. However, I choose to have intelligence, even if it can be abused because I believe I can handle it. That's probably the only confidence I ever had.

Fear causes anxiety. It prevents you from being able to do the right thing. People should train themselves to react with intelligence rather than fear to do the right thing. I guess that's another thing that antagonizes intelligence, though it's not spontaneous; it's usually from an event that you see. You just have to get used to it, and the only way you can is to experience it. Compared with experience, what I say means nothing.

Have you also considered the stereotypes associated with nihilism? That is, nihilism only implies that you don't believe anything matters, but people tend to attach other traits, stereotypes and habits with nihilists. What do you think they are, and what do you think of them?
 
I have only ever heard of one stereotype being attached to Nihilists. That is the one who cares bout nothing but destruction. The idea that since everything is pointless everything should just be destroyed as it is all meaningless.

Once there was a time when I thought well destroying everything is just as meaningless as letting it contiuing because it will end sooner or later anyway. Now however I think I understand why someone could destroy everything simply because of it all being meaningless. I will not say why here though as it is very personal to me.

I know of no other stereotype for nihilists then that though if I had to guess one. I would say some sort of lazy slob not othering to even get of the couch in the mourning or at night as life is pointless.

I feel though because life is pointless I shall do as I please and I presonally prefer to be able to walk a mile without coughing up my stomach.

If you know of any other stereotypes for Nihilists such as myself do tell me I could do with a laugh and something to destroy.
 
Well, that is what I meant to point out: people try to attach stereotypes to nihilists, possibly because it's easy to throw on a label or remember them, but they do wrong because then they fail to understand the underlying principle of what nihilism and being a nihilist implies. Being a nihilist may mean you are for destruction or against it. Or you simply don't care. It's no different from suggesting that some Christians, particularly fundamentalists, are destructive, yet liberal Christians (this is a loose term so I can work with something) are not. Both groups are, nonetheless, Christian in that they believe in God. However, this doesn't make any of them bad. Similarly, not all nihilists believe in destruction, and not all of them are lazy. It simply doesn't matter if you choose to put effort in your life, or not, if you are a nihilist; the only thing you believe is that nothing matters, and if you decide to put effort into something, despite everything having no meaning, either you're enjoying yourself, or you don't care what happens in the end. In actuality though, I don't think nihilists are particularly advocating for destruction because they care too little to do so. I wouldn't say that all nihilists are lazy because as discussed before, they're too intelligent to have done so, and actually came across nihilism using their intelligence.
 
I don't see why Nihilists would promote destruction--even destruction is pointles by the view they have (as far as I understand) of everything lacking a purpose. By that token, even the oblieration of everything serves no purpose. I think the only danger of Nihilism is that it invites the person to abandon anything that might bring meaning to their lives, however brief and perhaps superficial that meaning might be.

As for love I think people misunderstand that. Love dosen't make a person neccesarily stronger or weaker--it only brings those two to light more. If you are strong before love, you will be after it has faded. If you weak before, you will be weak after it. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that love is the be all and end all of everything. This is simply wishful thinking.

I think I understand why people fear being forgetten. This has never particularly bothered me because I don't care what others think, but I know people who need to be remembered because it makes them feel immortal. If they make a big enough impact as to be remembered they feel that is the purpose to life.

Hmmmm....I think that all made sense.
 
Amongst a grave of many tombstones though, people could easily be forgotten. Granted, your record could still be there, and you may have relatives visiting you occasionally, but it will fade in time; if you're not famous, you will become forgotten. If you are famous, you will become forgotten when humanity perishes. Either way, we will all become forgotten. Is it scary? Not to the nihilist. Not to the reasoning person.

I've always thought that if you loved someone, and they dumped you, you would feel very horrible. Does that make you weaker? Or is it because you get over it eventually?
 
What you say about Nihilism and everything turning to dust is true. No matter how big an impact a person makes in their life their fate is the same--death and being forgotten. Perhaps that is why people cling to deities; they fear their meaningless existence so much that they need to fabricate an existence in which they do live forever and are forgotten never.

If a person was dumped and that person is strong they can endure it and move on. The experience will give that person knowledge and might even strengthen them. They learn from their mistakes or others' mistakes. But if a person was feeble in spirit before the experience it might weaken them further but it's nearsighted to blame their fractured mentality entirely on the failed relationship.

I think that second paragraph lacked conciseness but love is still very much a mystery. And if we could quantify or definitively label it it would probably lose all its power.
 
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It's so logically confusing that I've given up on it. That's probably why I never really saw anything so special about it.

Making up a deity to prevent being forgotten is lying to yourself. If you have created a deity from your mind, it will never become external to your mind. You may write about one physically, but it will still disappear, as long as such a deity does not exist in reality. Being forgotten must be something to be accepted. If being forgotten is inevitable; then so be it--there's no use hiding from it. Delaying it will only make it worse.
 
And I understand why you are frustrated with it. Because it lacks logic it is difficult to deal with. But if it hits you, trust me you have no choice but to give in or weather it the best you can. Love has the annoying habit of appearing when you least expect it. Trust me I know this.

Self-deception has long been a way of life for many people. It's how some cope. If a person can forget, if but for a moment, the truth of reality then they can perhaps endure some life's harshest moments. Of course, this leads to dellusion. You can only pretend something for so long before reality crashes back down making a person's pain tenfold.

People create gods to live in the dream? Then I shall walk in the waking world, thank you.
 
If love is to be controlled by hormones, I can't deny the chemistry that constitutes the functions of my body, can I?

I would rather deal with harsh reality than make up delusional things about it. You can't hide behind an illusion forever; like you said, it will make things worse. Reality can be dealt with through rational thought; something that many people lack. Maybe it's because people let their emotions control them, and in the end, they fail to use their reasoning. It's difficult, but when you realize that no emotion you have changes anything, it's easier to rely on rational thought. Common sense is one of the most basic fundamentals of rational thought. Yet, it is surprisingly uncommon.
 
You make the mistake of thinking that love is relative only to bodily functions. Chemistry may cause love but love is more than "the act"--it is defined by all the actions of people who truly care about one another. I tend to think love has a bigger meaning than procreation or entertainment. Love itself will mean nothing in the greater picture; however it can provide happiness and fulfillment for the life until it ends.

Emotion drives many people. They are feelers not thinkers. This is dangerous because they allow passion not reason to guide them and rule their actions. Truth be told, people complicate things way beyond what they should. But people are flawed. We are all flawed. We might think that we use greater logic than the average person but that is not always so. An issue that one person can think rationally on another may not. It's all relative to the topic at hand.

Common sense is one of the most basic fundamentals of rational thought. Yet, it is surprisingly uncommon.
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That has got to be the most articulate way of saying "lots of people lack sense" I have ever seen. :)
 
I wonder why love would be irresistible, if it weren't the hormones?

I know it's not 100% possible to reason logically all the time. If at all possible though, I would. Some cases are less clear cut than others; and logic can be mistaken for angst, or vice versa. The more experience you have with something, the less fear you have, and the more able you are to reason with it. Having fear and allowing your emotions to take over can happen because you don't know what to do, and aren't given the time to think. There are few people who are able to think quickly and act appropriately in such situations. Very few of us are allowed to experience such situations more often.

Well, common sense being uncommon is kind of a misnomer then, isn't it? It might have been common in the beginning, who knows? That term actually comes from the Latin words, "communis sensus". Looks like even the Romans had it.
 
Common sense may not be common in this day and age, but there is something even rarer and that is uncommon sense. How ever that is sometimes refered to as genius but they are not the same thing.

Love I hate that word right now it means nothing but pain to me. I see pain as nothing more then an excuse for people to manipulate and hurt others. No matter how hapy you are with someone that love will fade and they will hurt you either by droping you or dying on you. Or you will hurt them in the same ways.
 
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