Love or Hate

[der Astronom]

Yes, but this kind of pain is not simply like cutting your finger. It could be everlasting. Like there are people that kill themselves over it, and others who lead miserable lives because they're stuck with someone that isn't what they expected, but because of love, they don't feel like they should leave them, or they're left with feelings that heal slowly, or never heal at all. I guess love is like one of those things where you feel it all the time, so if it feels great, then you're in heaven, and if it doesn't, then it's like living in hell.

 

[Dean Winchester]

Love, hatred, joy or sorrow, all of those are equal links of the chain that binds us all to commit actions we wouldn't normally do. People kill themselves for sorrow, and sorrow can be created out of love.

Hatred can give birth to love just like love can create hatred. Love/joy and hatred/sorrow are only two opposite forces, two sides of a coin, eternally bound to guide our path, it is our motivation.

When we are given the choice to choose between one path or the other, we indirectly toss the coin and our decisions represent that same coin striking the ground and turning to one side.

A coin usually never falls on its edge, hence why there's not a normal and equal balance between love and hate. But when it does, the result is someone who is resilient to follow either of the choices present as love and hate, and insists on building his/her own path, aside from the irrationality born out of being a follower of either love, or hatred.

Neither is good or evil, neither of those feelings is perfect or imperfect. They exist only because we want them to exist, because as humans we need a motivation to exist, to lead our lives to one preexisting path.

 

[Erythritol]

Yes, but this kind of pain is not simply like cutting your finger. It could be everlasting. Like there are people that kill themselves over it, and others who lead miserable lives because they're stuck with someone that isn't what they expected, but because of love, they don't feel like they should leave them, or they're left with feelings that heal slowly, or never heal at all. I guess love is like one of those things where you feel it all the time, so if it feels great, then you're in heaven, and if it doesn't, then it's like living in hell.

I think you've mentioned that you've never experienced love (I could be wrong?), and I honestly think it's difficult to discuss something that you've never experienced.

Pain from love is not everlasting unless you have a mental imbalance or something. In my opinion, perfectly balanced people do not kill themselves in the name of love. If someone kills themselves in the name of love, it's just as likely that they would have killed themselves over some other problem. I also don't think love is irrational. There is always some sort of reason that a person loves another. Whether its because the person is attractive (though I'd argue that people can't love each other based on physical attraction...I'll just leave that one alone right now.....), kind, or has some sort of attractive quality. Even if it's difficult for others to see why someone loves someone else, there is always some underlying reason. People don't just randomly love others. Love does make people do strange things, but there is always some sort of motivating factor behind their actions, so it's not completely irrational.

Love is definitely worth it to me. I've experienced it and been really hurt by it, and I wouldn't change a thing. Going through life and avoiding certain things for fear of getting hurt really isn't living at all to me. I'm not suggesting everyone goes and sticks their hands in a blender or anything, but-- as cheesy and barfy as it sounds-- love is easily one of the best human experiences. Avoiding it just because you don't want to be hurt seems a little silly and cowardly. You can't really make a rational analysis and say "it's not worth it" because you haven't actually experienced love (again, I just assume from some previous statements).

 

[der Astronom]

I think you've mentioned that you've never experienced love (I could be wrong?), and I honestly think it's difficult to discuss something that you've never experienced.

But we hear and observe love from other people, and what they tell you about it, but it's at least true that love is different for different people. But from what I've seen happening to other people and in other accounts, it doesn't sound particularly worth it to me. At least for someone like myself.

Pain from love is not everlasting unless you have a mental imbalance or something. In my opinion, perfectly balanced people do not kill themselves in the name of love. If someone kills themselves in the name of love, it's just as likely that they would have killed themselves over some other problem. I also don't think love is irrational. There is always some sort of reason that a person loves another. Whether its because the person is attractive (though I'd argue that people can't love each other based on physical attraction...I'll just leave that one alone right now.....), kind, or has some sort of attractive quality. Even if it's difficult for others to see why someone loves someone else, there is always some underlying reason. People don't just randomly love others. Love does make people do strange things, but there is always some sort of motivating factor behind their actions, so it's not completely irrational.

Well, I wasn't too concerned about love itself being irrational, but that it drives people to doing irrational things. But doesn't it just make you wonder how it is that certain people love each other? You may think there's someone that's a complete and total asshole, and yet, he still has a girlfriend. And maybe there are nice people, but a person in love has difficulty separating a person who's genuinely nice from someone only pretending to be nice. They may even have people around them telling them that it's not worth it and that they know the said person better than the person in love with him or her, but because of love, they never listen. You may say the reasoning for love is justified, but that doesn't change the fact that it drives people to doing crazy things.

Love is definitely worth it to me. I've experienced it and been really hurt by it, and I wouldn't change a thing. Going through life and avoiding certain things for fear of getting hurt really isn't living at all to me. I'm not suggesting everyone goes and sticks their hands in a blender or anything, but-- as cheesy and barfy as it sounds-- love is easily one of the best human experiences. Avoiding it just because you don't want to be hurt seems a little silly and cowardly. You can't really make a rational analysis and say "it's not worth it" because you haven't actually experienced love (again, I just assume from some previous statements).

Well, I wouldn't be willing to gamble my money--sure, you can win a lot of money, but you can also lose a lot of money. In the same way I wouldn't be willing to gamble my life over something as irrational as love. It's all simply a matter of consequences. Touch fire and you get burned. Try to pick up a rose, and you get pricked. Should I jump off a cliff to see whether or not I'm going to die? Even though I haven't, I am quite certain that the physics behind it suggests I most likely will. You can determine whether or not something is worth it by knowing the consequences.

There is a fine line between courage and stupidity.

 

[-Sephiroth-]

Well why don't you look at it in my perspective, I have had very strong moments of both Love, and Hate and here are my explanations.

Hate :- Being brought up in Manchester area, I have been in many suburbs that are extremely rough, I have grown up and seen many faces, most of which have been enemies.

I have had guys pounding me everyday all in groups and I Hated them because they where stereotypical towards myself and my friends. Everyday, I used to see them, the Hate which was within myself was uncontrollable I started to give as good as I get.

Hate caused it yes, hate is a very powerful thing indeed making you act the way you wouldn't normally do towards people, yet hate passes, if somebody broke your car on purpose (say smashed a windsheild) you would hate them for doing it, but time woul pass and that hate would extinguish within itself.

Now love... I am currently in a 3 year relationship with a girl, who I am now engaged too. I still do, to this day treat her with the utmost respect and cuddle up to her everynight.

Now here is how I know how love is more stronger then Hate.... if I hated someone 200 miles away, I would NOT go and see them just to shout scream and assault them, that would be a waste of time. But my Fiancé, she lives in wales, 271 miles away from my old location, and I moved down here gave up everything, I left my friends my family, my home I left everything to come down here and be with her, and you will ask "surely there is something else there?" my reply is, no. I left everything, I had no home, I now live with my Fiancé, I have no job no money no nothing.

Love was the thing that made me do this sacrifice and I would not do the same for hate.

My oppinion LOVE is the strongest of the two. ^.^

 

[Korytco]

Finally someone who is different from the crowd. Also you make a well enough point. To you, and forever and always love will be stronger than your hate because love has made your life more significant and changing. Love is a true factor and hate is a mere observation that can be made, love is more important and surfaces more often, is more desired to be felt and seen. Your hate resides in low levels but your love floats inbetween all levels .

Yes to you it is very true that love is stronger and perhaps you have discovered a logical way to determine which is stronger to an individual and proven generalizations of this subject to be false...perhaps.

 

[Dean Winchester]

I disagree, love is just passion, a mixture of feelings which impulses us to do things we wouldn't normally do, like abandoning our family for example. It does not have any other special power than to fuel our courage, our strength and our souls. Love is ethereal, it does not last forever, it is just like the morning breeze that slowly ends as time passes. On the opposite, hate does fuel our strength and courage, but it also has a destructive power over our souls. Civilizations ended by hate, Wars were started because of hate and prejudice, thousands, millions were brutally murdered because someone couldn't control his/her emotions.

Love, we created the concept of love! The concept of hatred, prejudice, sorrow, distrust, greed, everything was created to give a name to a reaction born out of human necessity. It is like happiness, there is no such thing as absolute happiness. It is similar to joy, but not entirely equal. Joy is spontaneous, born out of a moment, it comes and goes when it wants. Similarly, love is born out of elements in our hearts, our souls, but it can be extinguished by hatred, just like hatred can be extinguished by love.

We can't tell which one is stronger because there's not absoluteness in either of them. Nor love, or hatred, both are powerful depending on the person who feels that way.

Both of them are fed by our feelings, our experiences, our memories, and our motivations. They grow as our feelings do, fueled by any reason we could think about.

 

[Erythritol]

But we hear and observe love from other people, and what they tell you about it, but it's at least true that love is different for different people. But from what I've seen happening to other people and in other accounts, it doesn't sound particularly worth it to me. At least for someone like myself.

Ah see, but hearing about it secondhand really isn't the same at all. It's like a blind person saying they've seen the color blue when they've only had the color explained to them. It is true that love is different for different people, but it's not radically different. To really understand what love is, you need to experience it yourself. I used to be really cynical of it, but once I knew first-hand what it was, I completely changed my opinion.

Well, I wouldn't be willing to gamble my money--sure, you can win a lot of money, but you can also lose a lot of money. In the same way I wouldn't be willing to gamble my life over something as irrational as love. It's all simply a matter of consequences. Touch fire and you get burned. Try to pick up a rose, and you get pricked. Should I jump off a cliff to see whether or not I'm going to die? Even though I haven't, I am quite certain that the physics behind it suggests I most likely will. You can determine whether or not something is worth it by knowing the consequences.

There is a fine line between courage and stupidity.

I'm sorry, but that's a dumb line of analogies. You aren't really gambling your life with love. If you get hurt, it's not going to be the end of the world. I was recently hurt but it's been a few weeks, and I'm getting over it. And one day, maybe I'll find someone else to love. There isn't just ONE person you can love, and if they break your heart, life is over. Life isn't some Disney fairytale. And there is nothing to be gained from touching fire or jumping off a cliff. There is a lot to be gained from loving someone. It also isn't like gambling with money. You don't actually have anything to lose from loving someone. At most, you'll be hurt. And so what? You really think you're going to get through life without being emotionally hurt? Hiding from a potentially amazing experience just because you may get emotionally hurt isn't rational or the intelligent thing to do. It's just being a coward. Everywhere, you may get hurt in life. You could die in a car crash. You could die in an airplane crash. You could walk outside your house and be hit by lightning. Are you going to just stay in your house for the rest of your life? No, because that would be dumb. The benefits of going outside outweigh the risks (at least for most people), just like (for most people) the benefits of being in love outweigh the risks. I have a feeling that you'll never change your mind no matter how many times I try to explain how great love is, and how it's worth the risk of being hurt. I just feel bad, because you're missing out. It's easy trying to rationalize something when you've never experienced it. I used to be more like that. But once experiencing it, it's evident that the benefits outweight the risks.

I also don't agree that love is more powerful than hate. I'd like to believe it's true, but I honestly don't think it is. That's a good example, but I have a counter example. There are people who are willing to give up their entire lives and go to jail just to kill someone out of hatred. That's pretty powerful.

 

[Dean Winchester]

With pain comes experience, and with experience comes wisdom. I have experience, briefly, what is love. Still my opinions seem to be quite "cold" as well, seeming that I haven't felt what people commonly call "true love".

I just don't understand it, but I do not fear it, for I do know part of it. It's just that I believe as well, that love, just like hatred, can make us do stupid things.

 

[Donald Trump]

I just don't understand it, but I do not fear it, for I do know part of it. It's just that I believe as well, that love, just like hatred, can make us do stupid things.

Our emotions make us do things we wouldnt normally do, doesnt make emotions bad.
Undoubtly love is the 'better' of the two, is it stronger?, no, it depends on the person. ie
Hitler hated jews, he killed 6 million of them, pretty strong dont ya think?
I'll use romeo and juliet as example for love again, they were willing to sacrifice their lives for love, although its an example from literature, im sure that there are plently of similar things happening in real life

 

[der Astronom]

Ah see, but hearing about it secondhand really isn't the same at all. It's like a blind person saying they've seen the color blue when they've only had the color explained to them. It is true that love is different for different people, but it's not radically different. To really understand what love is, you need to experience it yourself. I used to be really cynical of it, but once I knew first-hand what it was, I completely changed my opinion.

And by the same line of reasoning, that would mean you didn't secondhandedly know that love isn't radically different for everyone else. Right.

I'm sorry, but that's a dumb line of analogies. You aren't really gambling your life with love. If you get hurt, it's not going to be the end of the world. I was recently hurt but it's been a few weeks, and I'm getting over it. And one day, maybe I'll find someone else to love. There isn't just ONE person you can love, and if they break your heart, life is over. Life isn't some Disney fairytale. And there is nothing to be gained from touching fire or jumping off a cliff. There is a lot to be gained from loving someone. It also isn't like gambling with money. You don't actually have anything to lose from loving someone. At most, you'll be hurt. And so what? You really think you're going to get through life without being emotionally hurt? Hiding from a potentially amazing experience just because you may get emotionally hurt isn't rational or the intelligent thing to do. It's just being a coward. Everywhere, you may get hurt in life. You could die in a car crash. You could die in an airplane crash. You could walk outside your house and be hit by lightning. Are you going to just stay in your house for the rest of your life? No, because that would be dumb. The benefits of going outside outweigh the risks (at least for most people), just like (for most people) the benefits of being in love outweigh the risks. I have a feeling that you'll never change your mind no matter how many times I try to explain how great love is, and how it's worth the risk of being hurt. I just feel bad, because you're missing out. It's easy trying to rationalize something when you've never experienced it. I used to be more like that. But once experiencing it, it's evident that the benefits outweight the risks.

Well, I could say that I can't see any benefit in it, except for some feelings you have for other people, which I have difficulty understanding anyways or appreciating, probably because I'm insensitive, but if I did love, I could say that there was a way around it which didn't involve getting hurt at all--which would be to love someone or something that could not deceive you or have the same flaws as humanity. And that thing I found was mathematics. Granted, it's not quite a romantic love, and to say that I could not understand it to some degree would be some kind of understatement--I can understand appreciation and devotion, but it works much better when you have nothing to lose. You make it sound like there's little to lose from loving someone, but love is rarely, if ever, simple. You could, for example, think you love someone, and end up having a child with them, and realize afterwards that they don't really love you, and they ditch you with little to no money to raise a kid. How screwed up is that? You lost more in the end than you ever gained. Had you the rationality to realize that having sex soon is not safe, you wouldn't have done it. But love blinds you from seeing this. You say that you can love someone and get over being hurt--sometimes, that does happen, but not every instance of love might end up this way.

 

[Erythritol]

And by the same line of reasoning, that would mean you didn't secondhandedly know that love isn't radically different for everyone else. Right.

No, I can't know that for certain. But I have something to compare it to because I've experienced love before. Going back to the blue analogy, it's like love is different shades of blue for everyone. Because I can see blue, I understand that while the shades are different, it's all the color blue. I can compare and contrast, because I can see blue. Telling a blind person about different shades of blue is informative, but they don't quite grasp it.

Well, I could say that I can't see any benefit in it, except for some feelings you have for other people, which I have difficulty understanding anyways or appreciating, probably because I'm insensitive, but if I did love, I could say that there was a way around it which didn't involve getting hurt at all--which would be to love someone or something that could not deceive you or have the same flaws as humanity. And that thing I found was mathematics. Granted, it's not quite a romantic love, and to say that I could not understand it to some degree would be some kind of understatement--I can understand appreciation and devotion, but it works much better when you have nothing to lose. You make it sound like there's little to lose from loving someone, but love is rarely, if ever, simple. You could, for example, think you love someone, and end up having a child with them, and realize afterwards that they don't really love you, and they ditch you with little to no money to raise a kid. How screwed up is that? You lost more in the end than you ever gained. Had you the rationality to realize that having sex soon is not safe, you wouldn't have done it. But love blinds you from seeing this. You say that you can love someone and get over being hurt--sometimes, that does happen, but not every instance of love might end up this way.

You're picking the most extreme cases you can think of to make love look like some terrible destructive thing. And if you say something like that to a mother, and I'd say she'd really disagree with you. A lot of mothers I've encountered absolutely adore their children. Not to mention, there are laws against just ditching a woman and leaving her no money. It's called child support. If the man doesn't want to pay, he'll just end up in prison. Hooray for laws

Anyway, choose to believe what you want about love. I just think you're completely missing out. Or maybe you're too rational and insensitive to really experience it. I don't know.

 

[der Astronom]

No, I can't know that for certain. But I have something to compare it to because I've experienced love before. Going back to the blue analogy, it's like love is different shades of blue for everyone. Because I can see blue, I understand that while the shades are different, it's all the color blue. I can compare and contrast, because I can see blue. Telling a blind person about different shades of blue is informative, but they don't quite grasp it.

And there are color blind people.

You're picking the most extreme cases you can think of to make love look like some terrible destructive thing. And if you say something like that to a mother, and I'd say she'd really disagree with you. A lot of mothers I've encountered absolutely adore their children. Not to mention, there are laws against just ditching a woman and leaving her no money. It's called child support. If the man doesn't want to pay, he'll just end up in prison. Hooray for laws

Well, it's entirely possible and it could happen. I only mentioned that as being one example, and the reason it doesn't bother you in particular is because it's never happened to you. And sometimes, people don't care about certain things until it happens to them. Or, to mention another case, neither spouse has any money, or couldn't make enough money together to raise a child.

Anyway, choose to believe what you want about love. I just think you're completely missing out. Or maybe you're too rational and insensitive to really experience it. I don't know.

Well, I could say that you're missing out on the greatness of mathematics, but I know not everyone appreciates it, so by the same reasoning, I could say that not everyone appreciates love in the same way other people do. It sounds trivial, but there are people that simply aren't interested in that sort of thing. I am perfectly content with math, and if you will concede that I'm missing out on love, then you'll have to concede that you're missing out on mathematics.

However, I never tell people they're cowardly for not appreciating or thinking more deeply about math.

 

[Donald Trump]

which would be to love someone or something that could not deceive you or have the same flaws as humanity. And that thing I found was mathematics. Granted, it's not quite a romantic love, and to say that I could not understand it to some degree would be some kind of understatement--I can understand appreciation and devotion, but it works much better when you have nothing to lose. You make it sound like there's little to lose from loving someone, but love is rarely, if ever, simple. You could, for example, think you love someone, and end up having a child with them, and realize afterwards that they don't really love you, and they ditch you with little to no money to raise a kid. How screwed up is that? You lost more in the end than you ever gained. Had you the rationality to realize that having sex soon is not safe, you wouldn't have done it. But love blinds you from seeing this. You say that you can love someone and get over being hurt--sometimes, that does happen, but not every instance of love might end up this way.

What? you have a child, i think that is gaining a hell of a lot, certainly more than you lost. You have created a human life, you cant rationalize that and say it wasnt worth it.
And like Erythritol said, there is child support.
Doesnt cover men though

Also love doesnt blind us to someone's faults, we see them, but we accept them for who they are, no one is faultless, so it would be hypocritical to love them less for having faults.

Love is accepting people for who they are, you can feel completely at ease with them. Falling asleep in the arms of someone you love is bliss tbph. We know they have faults, but that doesnt effect how we relate to them.

Dostoevsky said "What is hell? I maintain that it is the suffering of being unable to love"
I feel sorry for you.

And by the same line of reasoning, that would mean you didn't secondhandedly know that love isn't radically different for everyone else. Right.

So love isnt the same for everyone, but we can assume that love is a good thing for most people, It's highly probable that if you were to fall in love you would enjoy it. You mayn't like the 'insanity' of it, but that isnt the point, you may not even notice the insanity of it.

To me it seems that you are afraid of love, of being hurt by someone you love and that is what gives you the negative view of love that you have.

But i'll leave you with another quote, infact its rather cliched, but i dont think that matters.
"Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

 

[Erythritol]

Well, it's entirely possible and it could happen. I only mentioned that as being one example, and the reason it doesn't bother you in particular is because it's never happened to you. And sometimes, people don't care about certain things until it happens to them. Or, to mention another case, neither spouse has any money, or couldn't make enough money together to raise a child.

No, it's obviously never happened to me and likely never will, so it's not a great concern of mine. However, I do know some people who have had children before they could really afford them. And they made due. In any case, it's possible for such a thing to happen if two people aren't in love. Just because two people are banging away, it doesn't mean they're in love. And shit happens. You can't really blame love for people's flaws, accidents, or poor judgment.

Well, I could say that you're missing out on the greatness of mathematics, but I know not everyone appreciates it, so by the same reasoning, I could say that not everyone appreciates love in the same way other people do. It sounds trivial, but there are people that simply aren't interested in that sort of thing. I am perfectly content with math, and if you will concede that I'm missing out on love, then you'll have to concede that you're missing out on mathematics.

However, I never tell people they're cowardly for not appreciating or thinking more deeply about math.

Okay, loving math and loving another person is nowhere near equal. And loving math is not of evolutionary benefit to me. Fair enough that you aren't interested in love. You don't have to be (though you're effectively removing yourself from the gene pool). However, I'm just trying you can't say for certain you don't miss something when you don't know what it is you're missing. I'm guilty of doing the same thing. For a long time, I claimed I didn't need something particular because it was stupid or not worth it, and then when I finally experienced it, I realized what I had been missing. Anyway. I'm sure you'll argue all to hell with me about this, but mathematics just isn't as integral a part of life as love-- romantic love-- is. If mathematics disappeared, you'd be very upset, but the human race would continue. If the emotion of love disappeared, the human race would be crippled. I can't say that it would disappear entirely because there's always lust, but I'd wager that quality of life would decrease sharply for a majority of people. Thus to say missing out on math and missing out on love are congruous is just....wrong. I only said it was cowardly if you're afraid of experiencing something for fear of getting hurt. You're not going to get emotionally wounded from loving or "thinking deeply" about math. It's not going to reject or leave you. Math is a certain thing. Love isn't.

 

[Dean Winchester]

Love is not something we can skip, it is sometimes a necessity in order to prevent our minds to be driven into insanity by hatred or selfishness. Admit it or not, Angelus does feels love (awaits to be slapped by Angie ), towards Mathematics. Not the average kind of human love, which is felt towards another person, but it's still love in the end.

Oh, and mathematics can never disappear, for it is present on everything, organic or not, in this planet. Sure, it can be forgotten, but it can not disappear entirely. We need mathematics for almost everything, it is necessary for a society in order to grow in terms of economy and power.

Love also belongs to us, it is eternally bound to our hearts, regardless of the amount. So even if someone has his/her heart full of hatred, he/she will still feel love towards something, it can't be avoided.

Unless some sort of psycho devices some kind of treatment to null every single human emotion to build a perfect killing machine. Believe me, I think it was already tried, God knows if they are still trying to do it.

 

[der Astronom]

What? you have a child, i think that is gaining a hell of a lot, certainly more than you lost. You have created a human life, you cant rationalize that and say it wasnt worth it.
And like Erythritol said, there is child support.
Doesnt cover men though

And if you can't support the said human life, then you have probably brought that child up into a terrible life. Children are expensive, some people can't afford them, and some people live in areas that don't have child support.

Also love doesnt blind us to someone's faults, we see them, but we accept them for who they are, no one is faultless, so it would be hypocritical to love them less for having faults.

It's not the faults that's the problem, but the deception. That's a sign of dishonesty that love blinds people from seeing.

Love is accepting people for who they are, you can feel completely at ease with them. Falling asleep in the arms of someone you love is bliss tbph. We know they have faults, but that doesnt effect how we relate to them.

Unlike other people, I don't benefit from the same feelings of getting hugs. As I've said, the revelation of having proved a theorem or solved a math problem means more to me than any other human feeling ever did.

I'm not asking that the person I could love be faultless, but that he or she would admit them. And sometimes, that doesn't happen.

Dostoevsky said "What is hell? I maintain that it is the suffering of being unable to love"
I feel sorry for you.

That's just a subjective opinion. Don't think that everyone feels the same way about love. I don't know why you feel so strongly about this.

So love isnt the same for everyone, but we can assume that love is a good thing for most people, It's highly probable that if you were to fall in love you would enjoy it. You mayn't like the 'insanity' of it, but that isnt the point, you may not even notice the insanity of it.

You don't know me--how can you say that? It is because of the irrationality of love that you fail to see the insanity of it, a danger which I wish not to be a part of.

To me it seems that you are afraid of love, of being hurt by someone you love and that is what gives you the negative view of love that you have.

Again, everyone's afraid to jump off a cliff--does that make them cowardly? No. But then again, it's like I said--there's a fine line between cowardliness and stupidity, and I'd rather not cross it. I know this has already been addressed before, but if it did even happen once, then you're screwed. And you only have one life to waste time on, and once you lose it or damage it severely, that's it. I'd rather not lose it to something as irrational as love, and sacrifice everything for the sake of one person that doesn't love me. It's not worth it.

Besides, I don't consider love to be a mandatory part of life. It's not quite the same as crossing the street everyday, something which you always have to do.

But i'll leave you with another quote, infact its rather cliched, but i dont think that matters.
"Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

Once again, that's just another subjective opinion, and has no bearing whatsoever on my perspective of life.

No, it's obviously never happened to me and likely never will, so it's not a great concern of mine. However, I do know some people who have had children before they could really afford them. And they made due. In any case, it's possible for such a thing to happen if two people aren't in love. Just because two people are banging away, it doesn't mean they're in love. And shit happens. You can't really blame love for people's flaws, accidents, or poor judgment.

That example doesn't prove your point because there are people irrational for other reasons than love. This is probably going to be a bit of a different topic, but it's irrational to have children when you can't afford to maintain one, much less give him or her a decent life.

Okay, loving math and loving another person is nowhere near equal. And loving math is not of evolutionary benefit to me. Fair enough that you aren't interested in love. You don't have to be (though you're effectively removing yourself from the gene pool).

That's your opinion, if you think loving other people doesn't compare with loving math, though I could say it's because you lack an appreciation for math. But I reason that it is better to have loved something for which you have nothing to lose, than to love something or someone for which you could lose everything, even if it doesn't compare with the things you love that you don't have anything to lose from. It would be the smarter thing to do in my opinion.

The fact that I am removing myself from the gene pool bothers me little. I don't know why it bothers other people though. It's probably a biological reason.

However, I'm just trying you can't say for certain you don't miss something when you don't know what it is you're missing. I'm guilty of doing the same thing. For a long time, I claimed I didn't need something particular because it was stupid or not worth it, and then when I finally experienced it, I realized what I had been missing.

It's a fact of life that we're always going to be missing out on something, whether for good or bad, and we never experience everything that could possibly be experienced, and I'm not bothered by that--including love. Having accepted that, I'm perfectly fine with missing out on love--it's too unreliable to say that such an experience would be worthy or not.

Anyway. I'm sure you'll argue all to hell with me about this, but mathematics just isn't as integral a part of life as love-- romantic love-- is. If mathematics disappeared, you'd be very upset, but the human race would continue. If the emotion of love disappeared, the human race would be crippled. I can't say that it would disappear entirely because there's always lust, but I'd wager that quality of life would decrease sharply for a majority of people. Thus to say missing out on math and missing out on love are congruous is just....wrong.

Again, that's just your opinion. It bothers me little if the human race cares about emotions and love; perhaps that's what makes them so irrational. I don't associate much with them in that sense because they would mourn the disappearance as so irrational a thing as love and emotions. And as mentioned below, mathematics will never disappear--another reason why I have nothing to lose.

I only said it was cowardly if you're afraid of experiencing something for fear of getting hurt. You're not going to get emotionally wounded from loving or "thinking deeply" about math. It's not going to reject or leave you. Math is a certain thing. Love isn't.

I'd disagree with you--it's not cowardly, it's just plain stupid. The difference between doing something and knowing you might get hurt and doing something and knowing you won't get hurt is fairly obvious.

 

[Korytco]

I live for difference as we all do but I like to state it, perhaps that actually means something given "context" , or maybe it is imagination . In some way it must be significant but is it equally significant to no "context"? Equal to no reinforcement or claim ? Can I be equal just living or does living with a voice make me more significant ?

Actually , this gives me an idea never mind my post here, unless you find it interesting.

 

[Erythritol]

That's your opinion, if you think loving other people doesn't compare with loving math, though I could say it's because you lack an appreciation for math. But I reason that it is better to have loved something for which you have nothing to lose, than to love something or someone for which you could lose everything, even if it doesn't compare with the things you love that you don't have anything to lose from. It would be the smarter thing to do in my opinion.

The fact that I am removing myself from the gene pool bothers me little. I don't know why it bothers other people though. It's probably a biological reason.

To suggest that loving a subject is the same as romantic love is kind of...silly, to be quite honest. I have a profound love for art, probably the same way you love math, but I wouldn't say it equals the romantic love I've felt before. And I definitely don't agree with you on that last one. Life is about risks. To gain anything, you have to take risks, even if you know you could lose. If you don't want to take risks, then maybe you should just sit in your house with a giant bubble on, surrounded by math textbooks. I mean, you risk your life just walking outside of your room. For what gain? Because you need to live your life. And to do so, you must take risks.

It doesn't really bother me that you're removing yourself from the gene pool. I was just kind of pointing it out.

Again, that's just your opinion. It bothers me little if the human race cares about emotions and love; perhaps that's what makes them so irrational. I don't associate much with them in that sense because they would mourn the disappearance as so irrational a thing as love and emotions. And as mentioned below, mathematics will never disappear--another reason why I have nothing to lose.

No, it's not my opinion. Why do you think the emotion of love exists? It's not hard to figure out. It's an evolutionary advantage over other species. It ensures that people will reproduce. It also ensures that mothers will take good care of their children. That's pretty obvious. That's why love is such a strong emotion. It's not irrational at all. Just because YOU don't understand it, it doesn't mean it's irrational. It makes complete sense biologically. And I'm not saying mathematics would ever disappear, I was just giving a 'for instance.' It wouldn't mess up the human race biologically; we'd just go back to living in the stone age, basically. If love disappeared completely, I think maternal instincts would disappear, and the population of humans would plummet.

I'd disagree with you--it's not cowardly, it's just plain stupid. The difference between doing something and knowing you might get hurt and doing something and knowing you won't get hurt is fairly obvious.

Some people call it stupidity to risk getting hurt. And some people it cowardice not to. Usually the happiest and most successful people are those who took risks. If you take no risks in life, you get nowhere. You stay in the same place forever.

 

[der Astronom]

To suggest that loving a subject is the same as romantic love is kind of...silly, to be quite honest. I have a profound love for art, probably the same way you love math, but I wouldn't say it equals the romantic love I've felt before. And I definitely don't agree with you on that last one. Life is about risks. To gain anything, you have to take risks, even if you know you could lose. If you don't want to take risks, then maybe you should just sit in your house with a giant bubble on, surrounded by math textbooks. I mean, you risk your life just walking outside of your room. For what gain? Because you need to live your life. And to do so, you must take risks.

No, perhaps it isn't the same, but I'm perfectly fine without it. Even if you suggest it were to be greater than a simple love for abstract subjects, there is nothing that would compel me to love something for which I would have to lose all sense of my rationality just to feel. For I value my rationality more than anything else in this world, and to lose it for something I probably don't understand and can see all the things I have to lose for it would not be worth it. You may say that life is about risks, but I don't mean to say that we should never take any risks at all--only that the ones we take should be small. Perhaps you don't think there's much to lose from loving someone, but to lose rationality would mean you can't back out whenever you realize something has gone wrong. You may not believe the probability of this is high, but it's the principle of losing rationality that bothers me most. At the very least, if I walk out onto a street, I don't have to lose my rationality--I'll walk on the streets during the day, and whenever the walk sign is on.

No, it's not my opinion. Why do you think the emotion of love exists? It's not hard to figure out. It's an evolutionary advantage over other species. It ensures that people will reproduce. It also ensures that mothers will take good care of their children. That's pretty obvious. That's why love is such a strong emotion. It's not irrational at all. Just because YOU don't understand it, it doesn't mean it's irrational. It makes complete sense biologically. And I'm not saying mathematics would ever disappear, I was just giving a 'for instance.' It wouldn't mess up the human race biologically; we'd just go back to living in the stone age, basically. If love disappeared completely, I think maternal instincts would disappear, and the population of humans would plummet.

That's not about the fact that love drives people to do irrational things though, which was what I was talking about all along. I do not doubt that there was a "rational" (although I prefer the term scientific) reason for why love exists, but that has nothing to do with the way love drives people to do things they wouldn't normally do. I also don't like the idea of sacrificing and doing everything solely for the purpose of one person only.

But I don't really care if the human race doesn't populate itself so much. There is not much in humanity to praise if they went back to the stone age, and I consider that far worse than the dwindling population of a race already about to be overpopulated.

Some people call it stupidity to risk getting hurt. And some people it cowardice not to. Usually the happiest and most successful people are those who took risks. If you take no risks in life, you get nowhere. You stay in the same place forever.

You have to realize that there are paths you can take which involve fewer risks--ones for which you have little to lose. And since love isn't mandatory, I don't consider it to be one of them. If you think risk equates with success, then just about any careless person could succeed on the basis that he just has to keep doing a lot of dangerous things with lots of risks in them. But that's often not the case. Most of these careless people never succeed. You have to be more careful about the risks you take because people don't win the lottery all the time, nor do their stocks suddenly rise unless they were smart enough to know which ones to take (and thus you may say their risks are reduced). It is simply stupidity to take any risk without knowing the consequences and with the danger of losing everything, and it is not cowardice to choose an option with fewer risks if it works.

I find it funny that few people acknowledge the bravery of the people willing to delve into subjects as complex and as abstract as mathematics, of which few people do not fear or avoid. Here is a subject that has few risks in venturing into, and yet, many people make a successful career out of being a mathematician. The core of mathematics is, afterall, rationality. Why it is that others call such people who think rationally in a way that others are afraid to cowards and others who think with their hearts rather than their brains brave I'll never understand.