Love Beyond Friendship: A Cloti Club

[Cloti]

I dislike that site so much! I remember to have visit it once and read all that crap bout the earth and cloud,the heroine wearing red,the carp and the pink ribbon of fate(negated by crisis core)
it's so obvious that Cloti fans outnumer clerith these days but for how much?
I am guessing 70% against 30%
it is interesting to know that aparently in Japan Cloti is way more popular too(a simple google search will show you it's true) and Zerith also became really popular by the release of Crisis Core.So much for the Clerith and their symbolism being obvious for the japanese.

 

[looneymoon]

it is interesting to know that aparently in Japan Cloti is way more popular too(a simple google search will show you it's true) and Zerith also became really popular by the release of Crisis Core.

Oh really? I never really considered varying degrees of population across regions. I just sorta assumed that CloTi was just simply more popular than CloAe. I never really bought the whole Japanese canon thing.

FYI: I use the term "CloAe" because Cleris to me sounds like some sort of acne medication or skin product And, I say "Aeris" because that's what I'm used to, and Aerith sounds rather lispy to me

Fwah. I have alot of FF fanarts I wanna post (a couple CloTi) but gosh, school is draining me and I doubt I'll get the chance to upload them until the holidays T_T

 

[Infinity D]

Cloti, I know what you mean. I still remember my first visit there. It was a horrible experience. Now that I understand the nature of those sites now, I try to avoid them as much as possible....because I have a fear of delusions.

Fwah. I have alot of FF fanarts I wanna post (a couple CloTi) but gosh, school is draining me and I doubt I'll get the chance to upload them until the holidays T_T

Yes! You should! You should posts them at your convenience...I can't wait for the holidays.

Gosh, I wonder if ACC will have more CloTi moments. It'd be nice if they add some flashbacks from events in ff7 or crisis core. Or even add some scenes from CoT, etc. What do you guys think? I remember watching it the first time and did not understand the point of the movie at all; but that's expected I guess. I watched the movie before I got into the game(s).

 

[Cloti]

ugh I stepped into destiny fulfilled again to see what I thought about it now, and I almost vomited. I have never read the "anti-cloti" part before.I cannot belive their unbelievable power to overanalize and twist words,It's amazing how they swear that many people have been converted into CLoAer after reading that site.

I know what you mean Lonestar! I also want to see more Cloti moments in ACC I think we'll have some.I wonder if they'll ever show the original 20 minute short film featuring only Cloud Tifa and a few kids.I can bet it was very romantic!

EDIT:have you ever read this site? http://www.geocities.com/anime_art2003/Love_triangle.html crap and delusion to it's finest! I am lucky I've never met this FFG person.

 

[EVA]

I dislike that site so much! I remember to have visit it once and read all that crap bout the earth and cloud,the heroine wearing red,the carp and the pink ribbon of fate(negated by crisis core)
it's so obvious that Cloti fans outnumer clerith these days but for how much?
I am guessing 70% against 30%
it is interesting to know that aparently in Japan Cloti is way more popular too(a simple google search will show you it's true) and Zerith also became really popular by the release of Crisis Core.So much for the Clerith and their symbolism being obvious for the japanese.

Haha, the heroine wearing red? What are they talking about there? Terra and Aerith wore red. So... Yuna doesn't wear any red... does that make her not the real heroine? And in any case, Tifa's original design was to have red in her outfit anyway, wasn't it? Not that it really even matters. The "carp" argument is definitely one of my favorites. Not only is the fish presented a clown fish, but apparently it's supposed to represent that Cloud and Aerith was the decided couple before the two were even born. =laugh= Looking at the game as if it were in fact real, of course. Supposedly the fates predicted that Aerith and Cloud would be together, and this 'carp' that is totally Nemo, represents that fact. Also, I can't believe that most Cleris fans still consider pink to be the Clerith color. One, pink is a ZERITH color. Zack asked Aerith to wear pink... and what did she do while she waited for him? :/ Changed her attire completely. In fact, a lot of things that make up Aerith's character relate to Zack. Such as her selling flowers, selling flowers in a basket, asking for a date and holding up one finger, wearing a pink ribbon...

Speaking of the ribbon, anyone else read about the warped idea that the ribbon Aerith is wearing after the four year span is NOT the ribbon that Zack gave to her? Supposedly because it's tied in a different way means it's not the same one. Now, that is just insane. And I have to laugh every time I read that idea.
1.Things like ribbon tend to fade over time. Especially if you wear it EVERY day.
2.Zack isn't around. I'm sure Aerith had to retie the ribbon herself.
3.The cutscene makes the ribbon look lighter. Things usually look different in a cutscene. It's more defined.

Though in KH Aerith wears a red ribbon so -le gasp- it automatically means Zack doesn't matter! uttahere:

Sorry, but sometimes these crazy ideas really get me going, especially when used in a factual debate. That's why I am started to get really sick and tired of the LTD spats... Cleriths never give any facts. It's always some mumbo jumbo about how Aerith and Cloud are so *spiritual* and *tragic* and how the main heroine ALWAYS has to be with the main hero. (Uh, play FFVI sometime! :/ )

 

[Infinity D]

LOL. I think we had the same reactions, because I did literally feel like I could've puked from reading those well-thought essays. I don't think I read all of them and I have no intention to.

http://www.geocities.com/anime_art20..._triangle.html crap and delusion to it's finest! I am lucky I've never met this FFG person.

Uggh. Actually. That was one of sites I bumped into years ago. I think it was that one that turned me off the most.

Indeed, every defining moment shared between Cloud and Aerith is a parallel or echo to Aerith's memories with Zack. I mean, the moment Cloud fell into the church, she starts talking about "him." The date scene, she talks about "him." And did anyone even notice, she did the squats like Zack before Cloud teased her about being in SOLDIER. I thought it was cute when she looked into Zack's mako eyes in CC. Then in ff7, she also mentions that was why she knew Cloud was in SOLDIER. I mean seriously. Aeris is Zack-centric just like Cloud is Tifa-centric.

It's always some mumbo jumbo about how Aerith and Cloud are so *spiritual* and *tragic* and how the main heroine ALWAYS has to be with the main hero. (Uh, play FFVI sometime! :/ )

That's why I was so turned off even when I knew nothing about the story. They use their emotions more than common sense. It's not very smart if indeed their mission is to convert more followers. :tooweird:... Then again. That's all they've got. Baseless, emotional appeal.

 

[EVA]

I am lucky I've never met this FFG person.

Yes, you are! I've had far too many encounters, that I wish I never had. She is not a pleasant person. She refers to herself as the Clerith Nazi Of Cloti Genocide for crying out loud. How immature can you be!

I don't think I read all of them and I have no intention to.

Understandable. I mean, we all have lives to keep track of. :cassy: I can't fathom how many essays have been typed. I mean, really. Do you feel you need to go that far to prove a fictional pairing that no-one cares about (at least who the essays are aimed at: the Cloti) to be true? O_O; It's a silly waste of time.

Aeris is Zack-centric just like Cloud is Tifa-centric.

THANK YOU. That couldn't be more true. : )

 

[Cloti]

the clerith nazi xD, poor girl I hope to leave forums and all the "fandom" stuff when I reach 30.
I also haven't read all the essays, too much information and twisting for my eyes.
how was eternal love the cloti shrine? it has been on hiatus ever since I entered the Final Fantasy fandom I wonder if it is as biased.

 

[EVA]

Eternal Love?
I remember that site.

What about the site Loveless? I think that's the most well-known Cloti shrine now. ^^;

 

[Cloti]

Loveless is also acussed of bias(I like it as a Tifa shrine not so much as a cloti shrine) I would love to see a site focused on facts that really show to newcomers the intent of the game. Many people get confused with so much bias.
and Desfailed hasn't been updated in ages.

 

[EVA]

Desfailed hasn't been updated in ages.

That's not true. O_O They've been updating frequently. Unless you count a few days as ages! XDD

But yeah, I wish another Cloti site would just pop up around the web posting facts and scans. That'd be pretty cool. ;O

 

[Cloti]

really? I didn't know I thought the geniuses behind that site had disappeared.
The clerith must hate that site .whoever is behind it is a Cloti hero willing to assasinate the Clerith nazi!xD

 

[EVA]

Hahaha! I imagine a bunch of bubbly pink girls marching around with Hitler moustaches when I read such statements. -lol- Though, they look far from that in reality.

-giggle- ; D

Anyway, nope! They aren't dead! Still updating, and I still love reading. ^^

 

[looneymoon]

Yes! You should! You should posts them at your convenience...I can't wait for the holidays.

School is just a bummer I haven't had the time to do anything creative since summer and now... term papers + finals = total bitch.

Gosh, I wonder if ACC will have more CloTi moments. It'd be nice if they add some flashbacks from events in ff7 or crisis core. Or even add some scenes from CoT, etc. What do you guys think? I remember watching it the first time and did not understand the point of the movie at all; but that's expected I guess. I watched the movie before I got into the game(s).

I wish, but I kind of doubt it To be quite honest I think that all ACC is really going to include are extended fight sequences.

Rather than more Cloti moments, I'd want a WAY extended scene of the Bahamut Sin fight. Seriously, apart from Cloud, Tifa and Vincent, the rest of the AVALANCHE team were really cheated out of some good screen time.

Haha, the heroine wearing red? What are they talking about there? Terra and Aerith wore red. So... Yuna doesn't wear any red... does that make her not the real heroine? And in any case, Tifa's original design was to have red in her outfit anyway, wasn't it? Not that it really even matters.

In an interview with video game director Hideki Kamiya (creator of Devil May Cry) he states that he wanted to dress Dante in red because in Japan, red is a traditional colour for a heroic figure. You can see this applied alot; Dante from DMC, Terra in FF6, Aeris in FF7, Vash from Trigun, Kenshin in Rurouni Kenshin, Inuyasha etc. Aeris is obviously a heroic figure in FF7, so she has a traditional red outfit. I don't see how this applies to the her romantic relationship with Cloud... but whatever

Speaking of the ribbon, anyone else read about the warped idea that the ribbon Aerith is wearing after the four year span is NOT the ribbon that Zack gave to her? Supposedly because it's tied in a different way means it's not the same one. Now, that is just insane. And I have to laugh every time I read that idea.
1.Things like ribbon tend to fade over time. Especially if you wear it EVERY day.
2.Zack isn't around. I'm sure Aerith had to retie the ribbon herself.
3.The cutscene makes the ribbon look lighter. Things usually look different in a cutscene. It's more defined.

Classic case of twisting consistency. When we first meet Aeris in CC she's not wearing a ribbon. Right after they leave the church, Zack buys her one. Over the course of the game (which lasts 2 years I believe) you see the ribbon become part of her standard outfit. Then Zack gets captured yadda yadda... 4 years later, what do we see in Aeris' hair? Oh, a ribbon!

HMM... I WONDER WHERE *THAT* THING CAME FROM?
OH WAIT. I THINK I GET IT. ZACK BOUGHT HER A RIBBON AND SHE'S BEEN WEARING IT FOR 6 YEARS BECAUSE IT'S THE GIFT HER BOYFRIEND GOT HER ON THEIR FIRST DATE

ZOMG it doesn't take rocket science to figure THAT one out.

That's why I was so turned off even when I knew nothing about the story. They use their emotions more than common sense. It's not very smart if indeed their mission is to convert more followers. :tooweird:... Then again. That's all they've got. Baseless, emotional appeal.

I think, had Tifa not existe as in the original concepts, and the rest of the cast remained completely unchanged the love story of FF7 (which would be Cloud/Aeris) would be highly dissappointing. I think the Cloud/Aeris concept is very hung up on the very romanticized notion of love surpassing death. Though I agree that concept can be endearing, it simply does not work out if this "life transcending" love is not established concretely though the time the lovers are alive. Take, for example, the movie "The Notebook." It's romantic because you know their love transcends death because of everything you see them go through in life.
To me Cloud/Aeris is more like a couple just starting to get to know eachother and suddenly, one of them suddenly dies/leaves before they could really get to know eachother. Yes, it's sad and yes it's traumatic for the person who was left behind but it's certainly not a love that is above all time and space.



As for Cloti sites:

Really, the only really big Cloti site that I know of is Eternal Love, which is on a pretty long hiatus right now. I used to be a lurker/sometimes poster on their old forums. If you'd like however, the owner Eternal Love is also the creator of the Cloud/Tifa LJ group. I believe she's still semi-active on the internet, and I'm sure she'll be willing answer any questions any of you may have regarding her site

As for other Cloti-approved sites... someone mentioned Loveless, which is a Tifa shrine. It is biased, I admit but I don't see why it shouldn't be since it's a Tife-centred website. Plus, the bias doesn't really do much to affect the accuracy of the evidense/opinions it presents. Her LJ username is Tifaheart, I believe.

If you've been around the FF fandom as long as I have (lol ) you'd know about the Cloud shrine Omnislash. It's one of the first Cloud shrines ever. It goes by a new name now and was recently updated to include things related to the rest of the compilation. It's mostly opinion-based and isn't regularly updated. Even still, the webmistress is pro-Cloti, has a great sense of humour and happens to be friends with the Eternal Love owner. Definately has some of the best analysis Cloud's character and personality I've read.

Strife: Amazing site, amazing essays and just awsome. I believe the owner is a Cloud/Aeris fan, but you'd never guess when reading her description of Cloud/Tifa's relationship. Definately the most objective and accurate Cloud site around. She also has a Tifa shrine, a Denzel shrine a Marlene minishrine AND a Strife family minishrine!

I know of some more but most of them can be found linking from the ones I've already provided. Plus... long post is getting long

 

[Cloti]

loved your post looneymoon! you are right the Cloud/Aerith concept is very boring,specially given the poor development of their relationship.
I loved that Omnislash site! nice to have some unbiased opinion and the writer is really right, this is a Aerith vs Tifa war at its core.
and Strife owner is Clerith? wow amazing a really unbiased clerith, I have never met any.

 

[EVA]

GIFT HER BOYFRIEND GOT HER ON THEIR FIRST DATE

I really hope I'm not ragging too much on "The way of Clerith", but this reminded me of a lot of them saying that Zack and Cissnei were the obvious pair opposed to Zack and Aerith. It was one of those jaw-drop moments. Where you wonder if people can really be that... pardon me, but... the only word I can muster up is stupid. No offense.

It seems strange, but to most of then asking someone to dinner and of course the 'hand reach' scenes are somehow proof of Cloud and Aerith's undying love. O_O; I don't understand it at all myself, being Zack asks Cloud to dinner and has a hand reach scene with him. Yet, they don't seem to believe Zack/Cloud is canon. Nor do they believe Clotif is canon when they have two perfectly good "hand reach" scenes.

I also think that CloudXAerith is boring. Like I said before, relationships need to actually you know... develop. Zack and Aerith had more time spent together than Cloud and Aerith, and yet Clerith fans claim that Zack and Aerith was merely young love? When we see how Aerith clings to keep Zack as 'alive' as possible? Anyhow, I went off in another direction again. x'D The reason the Cloti relationship is so compelling is because there are obsticles the two must overcome. And after they overcome said difficulties, they end up being even closer than they were before. No REAL relationship is perfect, not saying that what Cloud and Aerith had was perfect--> because what they had certainly wasn't chemistry in the love department. :'D Aerith didn't even know the real Cloud until Tifa unlocked his memories. How COULD she love him? She longed to know the real him, sure. She supported him very well... all qualities of a fine friends. Tifa helped Cloud through many things that Aerith could not.

Such as, uh, actually revealing who his real self is. And that shows how much Cloud and Tifa need one another. Cloud didn't know who he was, but Tifa knew the real Cloud. The fact that she understands him more than he understands himself proves a lot. I know cause' the Ultimania said so. AS if I needed it to say so.

Long posts! Are good, though.

 

[Infinity D]

^^I understand you there. I don’t want to rag on either. Like Einstein said though, stupidity is infinite and sometimes you can’t help but comment on them. Like for instance,how they claim the date is supposed to make CxA cannon. There are many, many reasons working against this claim. For one, it was a subplot for a reason. What’s more absurd, is how they like to preach about reality. If they believe in reality, then they should understand that one date != lifetime marriage != one true love != canon pairing.


And looneymoon, you’re right.

If anything, I think it's Zack's and Aerith's love that transcends life and death.

You have to admit, the creators are geniuses. FF7 is full of parallel themes and plot twists. To me, the two canon pairings were clearly meant to be polar opposites… Both Zack and Aerith are portrayed as the full of life, optimistic type of characters. Which is what I think contributed to the emotional appeal of their deaths. It’s their vibrant personalities that make their losses immediately precious…And then Cloud and Tifa are really the more somber couple compared to the former; yet they’re the couple the creators chose to keep alive. Pretty interesting imo… It’s actually really fair, even though fairness has nothing to do with how great the story is. I mean, despite how people like to describe FF7 as a tragic (love) story, each character actually had his or her own happy endings (together). And each couple had their fair share of what it means to be heroes and heroines. Both Zack and Aerith died in their own inspiring ways while both Cloud and Tifa had to continue living. Perhaps, Cloud and Tifa had it harder; it takes much more strength to continue living….I just really like this whole concept of life and death thing… Sigh, but can it be that simple? I wonder how long the LTD will last. I might just be biased, but I think people who don’t see CxT and ZxA as the two canon pairings really just don’t understand the variety of themes employed in the game.

 

[looneymoon]

Awww... I didn't want to make it seem as if I thought CloAe was a boring couple. I just think they weren't developed enough to convince me of the whole "love that transcends death" sorta deal. I'm all for that kinda thing so long as it's executed accordingly.

I mean, it seems like shippers think Aeris is the Catherine to Cloud's Heathcliff or something, which certainly isn't true. I never saw Cloud OR Aeris committing to the "'till death do us part and after" mentality that the fandom seems to think they did. I mean, didn't the Ultimania show they knew eachother for a mere three weeks? They simply WEREN'T that committed. I contend that they may have had budding romantic feelings, but though the seed was planted, the flower never grew.

If anything, I think it's Zack's and Aerith's love that transcends life and death.

Agreed. If her in-game denial didn't show how much she cared about him, then certainly the 89 letters she wrote over the 4 years he was gone did.

I liked Zack/Aeris alot because we finally got to see why Aeris acted the way she did in FF7, which was all because of Zack. As an introvert myself, I admire characters like Zack and Aeris but never quite relate to them as I do with someone like Cloud (and to a lesser extent Tifa, because she is quite a sociable character despite being a little insecure). So seeing the bashful side to Aeris was kind of an eye opener. Not only was it super cute, but it just made me appreciate her so much more.

...Though, I admit I kinda did like the idea of Zack/Cissnei while playing Crisis Core o_o but I think that's just because I like Cissnei. She's hawt.

To me, the two canon pairings were clearly meant to be polar opposites… Both Zack and Aerith are portrayed as the full of life, optimistic type of characters. Which is what I think contributed to the emotional appeal of their deaths. It’s their vibrant personalities that make their losses immediately precious…And then Cloud and Tifa are really the more somber couple compared to the former; yet they’re the couple the creators chose to keep alive.

Everything you just said here fits in quite nicely to the theme of FF7 itself: life. I think the strength of Cloud's character lies within the fact that he's always the underdog, life always pulls the worst shit on him - he obviously gets down on it like any normal person would, but in the end he manages to overcome it.

...Kinda makes you wonder what (*cough* or WHO) motivates him to get past all these crazy things

and I'm pretty sure I've read a Nomura interview that he wanted AC to be a "happy conclusion to Cloud's story."

 

[Ryushikaze]

and I'm pretty sure I've read a Nomura interview that he wanted AC to be a "happy conclusion to Cloud's story."

But don't you see! He meetses Aeriths again! THAT'S THE HAPPIES!

::Bludgeons self back to sense::

The hardcore pinkers are not a group to be convinced by rational thought or well spoken arguments. They have decided their conclusion, and it is by that conclusion that they vet reality.If it contradicts their worldview, it is wrong.

They are religious fundamentalists, but for shipping.

 

[EVA]

...Though, I admit I kinda did like the idea of Zack/Cissnei while playing Crisis Core o_o but I think that's just because I like Cissnei. She's hawt.

I think they're a cute pair, but I never thought Cissnei's flirting was returned. x'D And you're right, Cissnei is rather stunning. I'd never go so far as to say they were the intended pair, though.

To me, the two canon pairings were clearly meant to be polar opposites… Both Zack and Aerith are portrayed as the full of life, optimistic type of characters.

Hm, that made me think of something. In CC, Aerith is as you said.. more shy and timid. It's like Zack got her to open up more, as we see that in FFVII she is far more spunky and flirty. x'D I think that because Aerith/Zack and Cloud/Tifa are similar, they are really perfect for one another. They understand one another much more.
I never understood the "opposites attract" BS that apparently is in every FF canon. (Not true O_O) I know that personally, I get along much better with someone I can relate to... not to say that opposites can't get together. I just don't think it's true for most relationships, the majority of them, or anything like that.