Lack of Education

[Davey Gaga]

It's true. You're only really taught to pass an exam - you're not taught about the subject itself. As one of our guidance teachers rightly said, most exams test your knowledge of the English language - even in Chemistry exams, ridiculously simple questions are made out to be so much more difficult due to the awkward wording.

 

[Soul Saver]

Yes, people without qualifications are not doomed, but I would say that their chances of a decent job are dramatically decreased.

Here we have vocational qualifications and apprenticeships, as an alternative to many education courses, if a person would prefer to do a more practical course related to a specific job. At the moment, they are seen as less skilled, less intellectually demanding qualifications, but I think it's a step in the right way. Practical education can be applied on a much wider scale. I think that more practical, interactive education techniques should be applied to mainstream schooling as well. There are different ways of learning, and a hybrid between textbook and practical teaching methods might be just what alot of failing students need.
If students can see how subjects are relevant to them, and its practical application, they might just be more interested. For instance, archaeology. If you take students on more practical lessons and show them archaeology and the skills they've learned in practice, most of them will be more motivated and interested. Or, for instance, English Literature and Drama. Take kids to see a play or something, nurture their interest in the subject. It would definitely help alot of male students, who tend to be more interested by practical applications. Costs? Well, not much if the various organisations involved make arrangements.

There is alot of concern about "health and safety" issues, I know. Schools and councils are afraid that parents will sue if something goes wrong in practical lessons and on school trips, and there should be protection against that. Wrapping up kids in cotton wool doesn't help them.

 

[Rockman X]

Yes, people without qualifications are not doomed, but I would say that their chances of a decent job are dramatically decreased.

Quite true, it is still harder to get a job. It's just frustrating how college is made out to be life or death.

Here we have vocational qualifications and apprenticeships, as an alternative to many education courses, if a person would prefer to do a more practical course related to a specific job. At the moment, they are seen as less skilled, less intellectually demanding qualifications, but I think it's a step in the right way.

Same here. There's alot of trade schools, and community colleges often offer degrees in trades too. They have about the same perception too, that you're a moron or whatever if you haven't gotten your masters degree. Course sometimes that is the case, but often times the person just isn't good at mathematics and chose to go with something they were actually good at.

Practical education can be applied on a much wider scale. I think that more practical, interactive education techniques should be applied to mainstream schooling as well. There are different ways of learning, and a hybrid between textbook and practical teaching methods might be just what alot of failing students need.

Wholeheartedly agree. Teachers need to incorporate different methods of teaching to cater to students. Some people learn fine just by listening to a lecture, others need hands-on activities. I know I retain material from lectures alot better if I write down notes, and I remember an animal's anatomy alot better if I dissect it in llab.

If students can see how subjects are relevant to them, and its practical application, they might just be more interested. For instance, archaeology. If you take students on more practical lessons and show them archaeology and the skills they've learned in practice, most of them will be more motivated and interested. Or, for instance, English Literature and Drama. Take kids to see a play or something, nurture their interest in the subject. It would definitely help alot of male students, who tend to be more interested by practical applications. Costs? Well, not much if the various organisations involved make arrangements.

Again, true. If a teacher goes the extra length to apply the subject, or find ways to make it interesting, the students will be more willing to learn it. Plus things are just easier to learn if you have an excuse to learn them, or if they catch your interest.

There is alot of concern about "health and safety" issues, I know. Schools and councils are afraid that parents will sue if something goes wrong in practical lessons and on school trips, and there should be protection against that. Wrapping up kids in cotton wool doesn't help them.

Ugh, they go too far with that. Fuck, in biology we went on a field trip to the zoo (lame, I know, but whatever) and we all had to sign papers saying how we were getting there. It was a half hour drive...and we're college kids...but we still had to sign liability papers like mommy and daddy did for us in highschool.

 

[Mitsuki]

I was pretty good at geography like...10 or so years ago. Now I don't know if my knowledge of the subject has decreased or increased (maybe just a bit) since I don't particularly study the subject extensively. But I do pick up little bits of info as to where a non-major country or city is located throughout my growing years, and I believe that is what we must always keep in mind - that everyone will always have different information - not always the same - pertaining to actually how much a person knows about a certain subject, be it geography or not.

For instance, Person A may know where Ecuador is located at but doesn't know where Sri Lanka is at. Person B may know where Sri Lanka is at but doesn't know where Ecuador is at. So what if Person A knows a lot more than Person B, or vice versa? The fact remains that they were probably just never given a proper chance to indulge themselves in that particular subject most of their lives. There could be many reasons, really, such as it also depends on that individual. If a person is simply not interested in geography and a few general facts related to the subject, then so be it.

Quite honestly, it is a bit surprising that most people can't pinpoint the U.S. or can't tell the difference between what American and Asia looks like. I know it's usually the younger kids that have trouble with geography, but they should still know these simple stuff at their age. >.> It's true that they usually stop teaching geography class during the elementary years (usually 7th or 8th grade) but even in high school or college, you still do continue to learn about geography in general as the teachers would always talk about these places as part of history or main world events.

I guess the hard part is simply just remembering where everything is at. xD Which is pretty damn understandable as I can't even remember where the hell Sri Lanka is at...at the moment. Voila, that makes me Person A! ... -Googles- Ah, that's right. An island in South Asia.

Anyway, someone brought a good point. It would really be beneficial if a teacher makes a subject interesting for the students. Everyone has their own way of learning and not all learning tools work for most kids. Notes, diagrams, maps, hands-on activities, plain text-book reading, games, etc...everyone has an effective way of learning and it's just a matter of finding what is most interesting for you so that you can venture on more with that particular subject easily and in a more entertaining manner.

 

[BalambFish]

Since you guys started a thread on education, I should contribute since I'm still studying.

I think the problem is not only lack of education but also the wrong kind of education. The educational system is too old and outdated. It was formed like what, in the 1800's? The curriculum they're giving now is full of useless lessons that we eventually forget anyway. imagine that we spend more than ten years learning these lessons that we will mst likely never use once we leave school. In high school they teach physics, complex algebra, chemistry but when you're eventually going to apply for lets say, a sales employee at the friendly neighborhood department store, is your customer going to ask you, "What is the velocity I need for this sweatshirt to go over my head?"
They have to be more specific in school, by high school they should already be teaching us lessons for our future jobs. That way, future employess will actually know more about their jobs and be more efficient.

 

[Mugen]

Anyway, someone brought a good point. It would really be beneficial if a teacher makes a subject interesting for the students. Everyone has their own way of learning and not all learning tools work for most kids. Notes, diagrams, maps, hands-on activities, plain text-book reading, games, etc...everyone has an effective way of learning and it's just a matter of finding what is most interesting for you so that you can venture on more with that particular subject easily and in a more entertaining manner.

Yep, teachers need to be more creative and really try to make their subject sound as interesting as they can...
But this is what I have concluded, the fact is, people get bored with what they do, especially teachers, after a few years they lose the will to teach and just do their job because they must and depend on it. They start treating all kids the same, and don't really care if they learn something or not.

 

[Erythritol]

You know, I think teachers get criticized a lot more than they deserve. Maybe most kids are just lazy fucks who need to stop watching TV and actually study. I also sometimes get annoyed when kids complain, "BUT WE'LL NEVER USE THIS IRL!" What they REALLY mean is, "I'm lazy and don't feel like learning this!"

Face it, some things in life are boring. Too bad. I think we live in an age where many people feel entitled to things. We live in an age of instant gratification. Kids don't want to work hard, and when they don't do well, they just want to shift the blame to anyone but themselves. Quite frankly, I don't think our education system is exceedingly terrible; I think our kids are lazy.

 

[Soul Saver]

You know, I think teachers get criticized a lot more than they deserve. Maybe most kids are just lazy fucks who need to stop watching TV and actually study. I also sometimes get annoyed when kids complain, "BUT WE'LL NEVER USE THIS IRL!" What they REALLY mean is, "I'm lazy and don't feel like learning this!"

Face it, some things in life are boring. Too bad. I think we live in an age where many people feel entitled to things. We live in an age of instant gratification. Kids don't want to work hard, and when they don't do well, they just want to shift the blame to anyone but themselves. Quite frankly, I don't think our education system is exceedingly terrible; I think our kids are lazy.

I agree. Most of the teachers who've taught me have consistently tried their hardest to teach their students. Some bad, downright lazy teachers as well, but I think it's rather the teaching methods, curriculum, and materials they have to work with that are the biggest issues on the teaching end. I don't think that lessons should be duller or harder than they have to be to get that knowledge through, but students have gotta put in that effort and get their noggins working too. Too many college and university students screw up their education by getting drunk and screwing about. Though it doesn't exactly help when lessons are un-engaging and dull. Some students aren't lazy, but are disengaged by writing down dull facts which don't seem to be applicable, relevant, or understood, and then having to remember it all for exams.
Just jamming facts into pupils' heads without understanding or relevance is characteristic of an exam factory rather than an actual school.

Some pupils ARE lazy and unaspiring due to their lifestyle, outlook, and low aspirations. It can be argued, however, that some kids don't have such realistic aspirations because some topics don't seem like they can be applied. Education needs to be more active for some students.

This has happened to me before. AS-level Physics didn't seem engaging, it was just basically remembering so-called facts, no real understanding! I read around the subject, to no avail. I was demoralised by the seeming lack of relevance, clear explanation, or engaging lessons, even though the teacher performed supposedly interesting practicals, she didn't explain the concepts properly. I could have succeeded in Physics if there was less of a focus on meaningless equations, and more on the actual application and explanation as to how things worked. Instead, I was bored stiff and disengaged. It truly felt like we were simply being trained for exams. Maybe it just wasn't the subject for me anyway, but I could have achieved at least a C, and better understood the concepts involved under a more structured, inter-relevant curriculum.

I've since moved on to subjects which are more useful for my aspirations, but still, AS level Physics wasn't pretty.

 

[Fusilli]

I don't know if/how this fits into this, but it's related to education so I may aswell throw it in.

One thing that really bugs me: My brother is at primary school, and they no longer get report cards throughout the year. Why? Incase the kids who aren't doing so well 'feel bad'. Boo fecking hoo. A lot of the time if somebody isn't doing well at school then it's going to be because they're a lazy bum, or just not that smart. Okay, so I may be a tad biased as somebody who gets A's but I don't think that changes the fact that teachers shouldn't be sheltering children from the reality. And hey, maybe if they KNEW that they weren't doing so well then they would feel inclined to try harder! And if they don't then too bad for them, but in which case they only have themself to blame if they feel bad. But noooo, heaven forbid somebody's FEELINGS get hurt, so let's NOT tell kids how they're doing at school and let everybody live in harmony with their equality and ignorance.

Bah, where does it end really? One day they are stopping giving reports and the next they banish grading completely, just so that the people who would usually get D's feel better about themselves. Well, maybe not but you get my drift.

 

[Rockman X]

I think the problem is not only lack of education but also the wrong kind of education. The educational system is too old and outdated. It was formed like what, in the 1800's? The curriculum they're giving now is full of useless lessons that we eventually forget anyway. imagine that we spend more than ten years learning these lessons that we will mst likely never use once we leave school. In high school they teach physics, complex algebra, chemistry but when you're eventually going to apply for lets say, a sales employee at the friendly neighborhood department store, is your customer going to ask you, "What is the velocity I need for this sweatshirt to go over my head?"
They have to be more specific in school, by high school they should already be teaching us lessons for our future jobs. That way, future employess will actually know more about their jobs and be more efficient.

I used to complain about this ALOT when I got into college and saw that alot of general studies courses were required for any major. Take two science classes, take two English classes, two history classes, etc. I was like "why the hell am I taking shit I took in highschool?"

But slowly I've come to realize a few things. In college (and in highschool), all those "useless" things are taught to give you a broader base of knowledge. It's so you can be more informed in things, take part in conversations with all sorts of different people and have some idea of what they're talking about, things like that. Just over this past semester there have been instances on these forums and outside them where information I learned helps me draw a comparison between things, etc.

And these days, alot of it is playing catch-up on stuff you should have learned in school but didn't, because the teachers were had to teach stuff only relevant to standard tests. It's also nice to just be smarter and know more than the average dumbass. When I worked at Arby's (fast food place), it was really pathetic how many adults two or three times my age came in and were just completely fucking stupid. I mean some people needed help reading the bloody menu board. Then you can say something that totally pwns them and it's completely embarrassing for them

Now as for teaching lessons about future jobs, it sounds good but it wouldn't work. People change their minds all the time. When I was a kid first I wanted to be a veterinarian, later I wanted to be a marine biologist, then a paleontologist, then for a good two or three years when I was a teenager I planned on going to Japan and teaching English, then a few years of "bawwwww life sux cawk I don't care about anything anymore" and now I have a slight interest in doing something with National Geographic just so I can travel the world. Kids are gonna be changing their minds on what they want to do all the way from elementary into college. That's another reason for those general classes, they're to give you enough knowledge in subjects so you can pick something you have an interest in.

Yep, teachers need to be more creative and really try to make their subject sound as interesting as they can...
But this is what I have concluded, the fact is, people get bored with what they do, especially teachers, after a few years they lose the will to teach and just do their job because they must and depend on it. They start treating all kids the same, and don't really care if they learn something or not.

The problem of uninterested teachers stems from the absolutely pathetic pay they get. Alot of people who would make good teachers are turned off to the idea simply because they could make alot more than 30 grand a year by doing something else. Teaching is often a fall-back job too, people will take it if they can't get the jobs they truly want, or if they're desperate for a job (because teachers are in such demand). Teachers who actually have a passion for helping kids learn are dedicated and typically remain dedicated.

One thing that I find ludicrous is that elementary and highschool teachers are required to have taken coursework in teaching and have a degree in it, but college professors are not (unless it's a science, then they generally prefer a major). At least it's that way in this state, anyway. That means I could get a math professor whose specialty was in history. Plus, colleges often take liberties with the teachers and just stick them wherever they need teaching gaps filled.

 

[Davey Gaga]

also sometimes get annoyed when kids complain, "BUT WE'LL NEVER USE THIS IRL!" What they REALLY mean is, "I'm lazy and don't feel like learning this!"

I do the former but I'm certainly not the latter. It's not a matter of being lazy for me - I'd rather spend my time studying the real world and having a more broad understanding of what's happening out there, than sit in an English or Maths classroom after I've passed the basics of those subjects - as long as you can write and count correctly, you're absolutely fine. Unless you're determind to go into those fields, further education in the matter is only there for the sake of it. Take my last post as an example of this.

I'm never going to use quadratics or the equations of circles if I end up getting into forensic science or veterinary, so why is it required to gain entry to the Universities, which teach it? I'm never going to use it but I can still do it, which proves that I'm not complaining because I'm lazy.

Nah, I'd rather spend those six hours a week in school being taught how to get a good hold on the property ladder in this shitting economy, or being taught the law inside and out, or learning how to properly manage my finances - all of which are possible to study without knowing when a function cuts an x-axis. ;D

 

[Mitsuki]

You know, I think teachers get criticized a lot more than they deserve. Maybe most kids are just lazy fucks who need to stop watching TV and actually study. I also sometimes get annoyed when kids complain, "BUT WE'LL NEVER USE THIS IRL!" What they REALLY mean is, "I'm lazy and don't feel like learning this!"

Face it, some things in life are boring. Too bad. I think we live in an age where many people feel entitled to things. We live in an age of instant gratification. Kids don't want to work hard, and when they don't do well, they just want to shift the blame to anyone but themselves. Quite frankly, I don't think our education system is exceedingly terrible; I think our kids are lazy.

Yeah I agree to a certain degree. I certainly know that here in the U.S., a lot of our kids these days have just lost that motivation to go to school and actually learn something. Usually they are forced to do their homework by their parents, who constantly reminds them to do their homework or ask if they've done their homework, which really says a lot. I mean, it's one thing to do your homework unwillingly, and another thing to actually do it willingly and learn in the process. If kids are forced to do their homework, I doubt that they are actually learning a damn thing as all they would really think about is getting it over with and go back to watching Spongebob or Courage the Cowardly Dog.

So yeah, it is not really about how our school system sucks (though that could be a small factor), but rather the individual as well. If a child just doesn't have the will and drive to learn no matter how much motivation they receive, then therein lies the problem. Or the kid could just be really inept and behind when it comes to worldly things and facts.

Take my sister for example. She's 11 years old and a few months ago, she asked my dad, "We live in the U.S., right?" I mean, she gets pretty good grades in school (A's and B's), so academically, she succeeds. And my brother who's 12...he doesn't really get good grades but is definitely smart when it comes to using his thinking process and knows quite a few facts. It just depends on the individual and their strengths in certain subjects.

 

[Davey Gaga]

Your general knowledge is kind of separate from anything you learn in school, though. I tend to have a very poor general knowledge but I'm usually quite adept in school, whereas one of my friends is very good at both. General knowledge really just covers whatever you pick up from day to day whereas anything at school is learned under a particular environment, not always when we're on our top form.

 

[Donald Trump]

General knowledge is just very basic facts ie WW1 started in 1914. Studying history will tell you that WW1 started because of Alliance systems, Imperialsim and Nationalism. It will also teach you that The assaination of Archduke Ferdinand was what started the war.
I think both Eryth and Riku were right, it is a bit of both when you say 'I will never use this in real life' it is a bit of lazyness and also it's true. I was stupid enough to do AS maths, which for those of you that don't know is advanced maths that you don't have to study. And absolutely none of it will ever be used in Real life.

 

[Soul Saver]

General knowledge is just very basic facts ie WW1 started in 1914. Studying history will tell you that WW1 started because of Alliance systems, Imperialsim and Nationalism. It will also teach you that The assaination of Archduke Ferdinand was what started the war.
I think both Eryth and Riku were right, it is a bit of both when you say 'I will never use this in real life' it is a bit of lazyness and also it's true. I was stupid enough to do AS maths, which for those of you that don't know is advanced maths that you don't have to study. And absolutely none of it will ever be used in Real life.

The torch of historical knowledge has to be passed on, and actual skills you learn later on in history, help you to evaluate and obtain knowledge from various sources. History is also crucial; hindsight is crucial. Fair enough, you won't get far by just knowing lots about history alone, unless you plan on becoming a professional historian. It's good to combine it with other subjects. And not, for one moment, has history been uninteresting to me.