Kuja vs. sephiroth

I quote an old post of mine...

Now, we all know Kuja’s various fetes and his general storyline. This topic is to respect Kuja. Now, he has a host of impressive accomplishments in a large variety of areas. He took a shot from a city-busting King of Dragons and merely got a scratch. He survived a blast from the most powerful weapon in the FFIX-verse that was meant to kill him. He manipulated a benevolent monarch into a tyrannical and power-hungry destroyer of worlds who would bring death to thousands. And this is all his normal self. But Kuja’s most remembered and indeed disputed fete is Terra. What did he do to Terra? It’s widely argued he either busted it or simply reduced it to ruins. This all stems from a variety of ambiguous dialogue and the fact we never see the planet go boom or indeed anything given the fact the party made the extremely prudent move of getting the hell out of there. The only really clear dialogue, that is still very ambiguous, on this fete lie in these three lines.

Girl [Mikoto]: But Garland is dead. Terra will soon be destroyed.

This was Zidane talking to Mikoto shortly before they boarded the Invincible and escaped Terra. She makes another comment on Terra later on the beginning of Disc 4.

Mikoto: You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself...

Now this is where semantics come into play. What does it mean to destroy? What is a world? What is the definition of “is?” People accuse, and they are kind of right, those lines of being too vague to attest to the fete of busting Terra. Yet the idea Kuja could blow up a planet did not materialize from nowhere. The fact is that there is not 100% conclusive evidence that he did or did not wipe out Terra. But, I feel just the two quotes I provided completely disprove the absurd notion that I’ve heard here and on other places that Kuja only destroyed Bran Bai. Some say he just tore down the city and looking through both those quotes, I don’t see her saying anywhere that Kuja destroyed a city by himself or that Bran Bai will soon be gone. But, nevertheless, I am a supporter of the planet-buster Kuja school. And partially out of faith and partially out of reasonable conjecture. Such as drawn from this line.

Amarant: Do you really think [Kuja] perished with Terra?

Now, examine that quote. If Kuja did nothing but strafe the world with magic, how would he perish along with it? I deduce, and I feel I’m definitely not going out on a limb here, that Amarant is saying Kuja did indeed blow up or cause some sort of cataclysm on Terra. How else would he “perish” along with it? When I hear that line, I have an image of a planet exploding and Kuja caught up in it. Does that seem too farfetched or reaching? I don’t think so. I do pride myself on having an open-mind. I can admit to being wrong and can look at the same line and see multiple meanings. But I just don’t see how that quote could say anything other than what it’s saying.

Also, I do not recall Sephiroth becoming intangible on his own. It's true that Jenova in the game did do things like go through objects but I don't see any reason to attribute that ability to Sephiroth on his own. His biology is highly different from Jenova's.

Sephiroth can kill Kuja in melee combat but Kuja just has to keep his distance and assault him with Ultima.
 
kuja can fly so the chance of kujas victory is obvious also note that kuja can only win or draw but not lose because when he is beaten he automatically uses ultima so sephiroth cannot win
 
kuja can fly so the chance of kujas victory is obvious also note that kuja can only win or draw but not lose because when he is beaten he automatically uses ultima so sephiroth cannot win

Sephiroth clearly demonstrates the ability to fly in AC. So Kuja's victory is not "obvious" at all, if that's your only argument.



As for a previous post in regards to Kuja having a teleportation technique: I for got this. However, if he were to use it in order to escape a laceration, he's under a lot of pressure. It's not instantaneous as a typical teleportation ability would be portrayed, so I can't see it being entirely useful.

Nikkolas said:
Girl [Mikoto]: But Garland is dead. Terra will soon be destroyed.

This was Zidane talking to Mikoto shortly before they boarded the Invincible and escaped Terra. She makes another comment on Terra later on the beginning of Disc 4.

Mikoto: You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself...
Nikkolas said:
Amarant: Do you really think [Kuja] perished with Terra?


This should be conclusive enough for anyone who has or has not played the game. We're told throughout that Kuja destroyed Terra through ill intent.

Also, nice to see you dropped by, Nikkolas. ;D
 
I quote an old post of mine...

Now, we all know Kuja’s various fetes and his general storyline. This topic is to respect Kuja. Now, he has a host of impressive accomplishments in a large variety of areas. He took a shot from a city-busting King of Dragons and merely got a scratch. He survived a blast from the most powerful weapon in the FFIX-verse that was meant to kill him. He manipulated a benevolent monarch into a tyrannical and power-hungry destroyer of worlds who would bring death to thousands. And this is all his normal self. But Kuja’s most remembered and indeed disputed fete is Terra. What did he do to Terra? It’s widely argued he either busted it or simply reduced it to ruins. This all stems from a variety of ambiguous dialogue and the fact we never see the planet go boom or indeed anything given the fact the party made the extremely prudent move of getting the hell out of there. The only really clear dialogue, that is still very ambiguous, on this fete lie in these three lines.

Girl [Mikoto]: But Garland is dead. Terra will soon be destroyed.

This was Zidane talking to Mikoto shortly before they boarded the Invincible and escaped Terra. She makes another comment on Terra later on the beginning of Disc 4.

Mikoto: You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself...

Now this is where semantics come into play. What does it mean to destroy? What is a world? What is the definition of “is?” People accuse, and they are kind of right, those lines of being too vague to attest to the fete of busting Terra. Yet the idea Kuja could blow up a planet did not materialize from nowhere. The fact is that there is not 100% conclusive evidence that he did or did not wipe out Terra. But, I feel just the two quotes I provided completely disprove the absurd notion that I’ve heard here and on other places that Kuja only destroyed Bran Bai. Some say he just tore down the city and looking through both those quotes, I don’t see her saying anywhere that Kuja destroyed a city by himself or that Bran Bai will soon be gone. But, nevertheless, I am a supporter of the planet-buster Kuja school. And partially out of faith and partially out of reasonable conjecture. Such as drawn from this line.

Amarant: Do you really think [Kuja] perished with Terra?

Now, examine that quote. If Kuja did nothing but strafe the world with magic, how would he perish along with it? I deduce, and I feel I’m definitely not going out on a limb here, that Amarant is saying Kuja did indeed blow up or cause some sort of cataclysm on Terra. How else would he “perish” along with it? When I hear that line, I have an image of a planet exploding and Kuja caught up in it. Does that seem too farfetched or reaching? I don’t think so. I do pride myself on having an open-mind. I can admit to being wrong and can look at the same line and see multiple meanings. But I just don’t see how that quote could say anything other than what it’s saying.

All of that is very good, but is just interpretation. We cannot use it as evidence. I know that he didn't just destroy Bran Bal, but we cannot state that he blew up Terra, like a fact. In my opinion, he just destroyed the surface of it. Ultima is a spell that throw many and many energy beams in all directions. But could it reach the core of Terra and made the planet blow up? Of what i saw, i don't think so.
And a long time ago, a guy(that said he readed the FFIX UOG) said that Terra is located in the core of Gaia(and presented good arguments for that). If this is truth, Kuja couldn't have blew up Terra(because Gaia would be destroyed too).

Also, I do not recall Sephiroth becoming intangible on his own. It's true that Jenova in the game did do things like go through objects but I don't see any reason to attribute that ability to Sephiroth on his own. His biology is highly different from Jenova's.

The Crystal said:
I supose we are using both characters in their most powerful versions/forms right? If this is the case, we are using AC Sephiroth(stated by SE as his most powerful version ever). Both AC and the Reunion Files show us that after Kadaj(a body made of pure spirit energy) drink the J-cells, Sephiroth use them to shapeshift in his own image, and appear before Cloud. In AC his body is 100% Jenova cells, and because of this he don't have any human weakness. He don't need to eat, or sleep, or breathe, etc.

Sephiroth can kill Kuja in melee combat but Kuja just has to keep his distance and assault him with Ultima.

Sephiroth can speedblitz Kuja and kill him.
 
that is inconclusive even with jenovas power and he needs materia to use magic which dosent exist in a world clash
 
that is inconclusive even with jenovas power and he needs materia to use magic which dosent exist in a world clash

What are you talking about? It is proved many times in FFVII that Jenova can use magic without any Materia. His body is 100% made of J-cells remember? And it was showed in AC and explained in the AC Director's Comentary, that Sephiroth used the Geostigma to taint the Lifestream and controll it.
He don't need Materia.
 
... less of the above posts, guys. This is a thread pertaining to a fight between Sephiroth and Kuja, NOT how Sephiroth uses the Lifestream.
 
kuja owns sephiroth every time full stop end of story thats that

And in this post:

I don't want any dogmatic fanboys/girls coming in saying one is overly better than the other. Or imma remove yoh posts, beeeeeetches.

I made my point quite clear. I'll warn the next person who doesn't back up their claim. You're being ridiculous.
 
he never used it though

dont you think if sephiroth had all that power he would use it?

Against Cloud? No, he wouldn't. Why kill Cloud with the first attack, if Seph could play and humiliate him?
The reason of why AC Sephiroth didn't use even 50% of his true power against Cloud, is the same reason of why he stabed Cloud' in the shoulder instead of his heart.
Seph's arrogance, and hatred for Cloud, are bigger than his power.


Saix: Is important to talk about Sephiroth's controll over the Lifestream. This is part of his powers. This is one thing that can help him in the fight. Why ignore it?
 
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The Crystal said:
Saix: Is important to talk about Sephiroth's controll over the Lifestream. This is part of his powers. This is one thing that can help him in the fight. Why ignore it?

Then make it integral with point as to why Sephiroth would beat Kuja. Now you're just talking about Sephiroth, which is off-topic. Hugely. As such, I'm removing some of these posts.

Scrap what I said about warnings. I'm moving to infractions now, if people stay off topic.
 
LOL Is very obvious that you didn't read any of my posts yet. I allways use the Compilation or the words of the creators themselves, in my "weak" arguments. Contrary to you, i know what i'm talking about.
And when you say something like "Sephiroth only have a big sword LOL!!!11one" you NEED to play FFVII and watch AC. Sorry, but is the truth.



I remember that. Kuja destroying the city of Bran Bal was very cool. But wait, we are talking about a planet right?

#1
I was merely mimicking what you said to me. I have read your posts.

#2
That wasn't Bran Bal. Kuja was floating above Castle Pandemonium when he launched his Ultima attack. Castle P. wasn't near Bran Bal, hence the portal needed to get to Castle P. from Bran Bal.

It's clearly stated in the game that Terra is destroyed, for the reasons Nikkolas stated.

This isn't an argument of Ultimate Form vs. Ultimate Form. "Trance Kuja" isn't a new form. Trance is a new representation of Limit Breaks. It fits into the plot. It isn't just "You may have beaten me last time, but this time I'm so different it doesn't even look like me! Huzzah! Fight me!"

(I'm really glad that it didn't go from 'Kuja' to 'Omega Flare Kuja' to 'Teh Ultzimate Kuja of Pwnage!' ... new forms are stupid. Hence why I hate Seymour.)

Even if Sephiroth did have power over the Lifestream, if Kuja blew up the Crystal, Sephy would be screwed anyway :P
 
#1
I was merely mimicking what you said to me. I have read your posts.

#2
That wasn't Bran Bal. Kuja was floating above Castle Pandemonium when he launched his Ultima attack. Castle P. wasn't near Bran Bal, hence the portal needed to get to Castle P. from Bran Bal.

It's clearly stated in the game that Terra is destroyed, for the reasons Nikkolas stated.

This isn't an argument of Ultimate Form vs. Ultimate Form. "Trance Kuja" isn't a new form. Trance is a new representation of Limit Breaks. It fits into the plot. It isn't just "You may have beaten me last time, but this time I'm so different it doesn't even look like me! Huzzah! Fight me!"

(I'm really glad that it didn't go from 'Kuja' to 'Omega Flare Kuja' to 'Teh Ultzimate Kuja of Pwnage!' ... new forms are stupid. Hence why I hate Seymour.)

But his Trance was different. He absorbed the souls of many people, gaining more power than the normal Trances, and it was "infinite". It can be considered a new form.
But if we are using Kuja in his most powerful form, we have to do the same with Sephiroth. Nothing more fair than that.

And before Saix complain about off-topic talk, i will give my opinion again. Sephiroth speedblitz and kill him.
You already saw the insane fight between Chaos Vincent and Omega Weiss in DoC? Like i explained before, AC Sephiroth can move with the same speed than them(if he decided to be serious with Cloud).
Kuja would blink, and would be dead.

Even if Sephiroth did have power over the Lifestream, if Kuja blew up the Crystal, Sephy would be screwed anyway :P

Only if FFVII and FFIX are in the same universe.
 
Kuja looks like a girl but he was hard to beat and wasn't serious about everything. I think he beats Sephiroth hands down.
 
But his Trance was different. He absorbed the souls of many people, gaining more power than the normal Trances, and it was "infinite". It can be considered a new form.
But if we are using Kuja in his most powerful form, we have to do the same with Sephiroth. Nothing more fair than that.

Only if FFVII and FFIX are in the same universe.

#1
Point taken. But, since Trance is a burst of emotion that fuels power, it wasn't really a new form. Even though Kuja aborbed the souls, in particular Queen Brahne's, he still felt the emotional drive of hatred and anger towards Zidane to Trance. Kuja's Trance isn't infinite either. In his death scene, he isn't Tranced.

#2
If they are in different universes, then Sephiroth's control of the Lifestream isn't usable anymore. Same with Kuja destroying the Crystal.

Aren't both planets of VII and IX both called "Gaia"? Wouldn't it be weird if IX was 1000-odd years before VII? That'd be strange, then our arguments of Crystal Vs. Lifestream would be open.

(What if the Lifestream started to develop after Memoria exploded? :O To me it kind of makes sense. Memoria is full of memories, and I think the Lifestream 'remembers' whose died, so it would make sense if they were linked. Aerith could communicate with the planet, right? Well, Eiko could communicate with Eidolons because of her horn. Fenrir was an Eidolon of Earth-based power, so maybe somehow that Eidolon could talk to the planet and Eiko could talk to the Eidolon? Maybe, hundreds of years down Eiko's line, the Cetra were born from the Earth-Eidolon-Communication? :O I feel a theory coming on ...

Or not :P It's probably just a coincidence. IX likes to be similar to the rest of the FF Series.)
 
square does make a habit of putting little bits of other final fantasies so that theory could be a result of that
 
Sephiroth doesn't die.

Supposedly killed by Cloud in FF7
Then he comes back in AC through the use of a remnant
Gets killed again.
"I will....never be a memory."

Sephiroth wins.
 
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