Immigration

[Warbsywoo]

{Inspired by talks from the chatroom and in one of my threads.}

The immigration problem apparently is not only a nuisance in the U.S., where I live and know quite a bit about, but the world over.
Basically, I'm speaking of immigration in general, and that includes illegal immigration.

Question is, to what extent is immigration acceptable, and why are countries, especially the US, tough on immigration? Even if it is legal.

Is it because the country is overflowing with so many people, or is it because these new immigrants are taking up jobs that already-citizens need?

As for the illegal immigration debate, I'm sure we can weave into this discussion. Should actually go quite hand in hand.

 

[Fonix]

Immigration should be thought of in a positive light most of the time, there are many benefits of social diversity and I have learned alot from immigrants at my own school here in the UK, as they have from me.

People fear what they dont understand of know, and so if immigration was suddenly banned, racism would sky-rocket (fear turns to hate). There is also something beautiful about people from all over the world just getting along.

But of course there is problems, such as immigrants getting jobs which otherwise natives would, and in light of these problems I believe immigration should be better controlled and tightened.

 

[Saix]

Not racially inspired, but I hate immigration with a passion. I see people walking around the town I live in which blatantly come from a different country, and it never ceases to annoy me. I'm not saying all immigrants are bad people, but I've only ever encountered those which leech off our society. Demanding houses, claiming benefits, not working, throwing racist accusations here there and everywhere... it sickens me. Unfortunately for being open-minded, it's made me feel the same way to all forms of immigrants; illegal or otherwise. May they have a job, not cause trouble, and make their way in life fairly... I can't help but stereotype those people.

It's sad, but there's so many people out there who ruin it for everyone else. People on both sides of the equation get killed around here because of it.

 

[Dean Winchester]

I consider Inmigration as neither bad nor good, but instead it depends on the situation, the kind of people migrate to those countries and their objectives. Sure there are those who just came to leech the society but we can't generalize that all of them will do the same. There are those who emigrate to another countrie in order to work hard and obtain a better future.

Yes it all depends on their actions since inmigration has the benefit of social development in terms of the cultural diversities.

Also like Fonix stated before, people fear what they don't understand (main characteristic of humans which is to fear the unknown), so that's why they take such actions and end up hating people from another countries.

But, using US as an example, if it weren't for migration countries like US wouldn't even exists. The people from Europe migrated from their countries to America, a land that was already inhabited by "indians".

So in short, the largest civilazations of the world had a beginning with a group of people migrating to another territory and establishing themselves on it to develop their society.

 

[Big Casino]

Not racially inspired, but I hate immigration with a passion. I see people walking around the town I live in which blatantly come from a different country, and it never ceases to annoy me. I'm not saying all immigrants are bad people, but I've only ever encountered those which leech off our society. Demanding houses, claiming benefits, not working, throwing racist accusations here there and everywhere... it sickens me. Unfortunately for being open-minded, it's made me feel the same way to all forms of immigrants; illegal or otherwise. May they have a job, not cause trouble, and make their way in life fairly... I can't help but stereotype those people.

It's sad, but there's so many people out there who ruin it for everyone else. People on both sides of the equation get killed around here because of it.

i pretty much agree with u there 100% especially about the demanding of houses, benefits etc thats money that could br put into our hospitals and schools.

 

[Dean Winchester]

i pretty much agree with u there 100% especially about the demanding of houses, benefits etc thats money that could br put into our hospitals and schools.

I much agree with this statement since I think that those who don't work doesn't have any right to demand anything from those who spend day and night trying to earn their living.

It's not fair you know, but as much as we hated, nothing is fair in this world and that's a reality.

 

[Big Casino]

yes very true and thers not much people like us can do, the goverment dont seem to care what the people of their own country want, they cater more for the immigrants. Sad but true

 

[Warbsywoo]

I consider Inmigration as neither bad nor good, but instead it depends on the situation, the kind of people migrate to those countries and their objectives. Sure there are those who just came to leech the society but we can't generalize that all of them will do the same. There are those who emigrate to another countrie in order to work hard and obtain a better future.

I agree, it's their objectives and their mindset that they bring to their new country that should determine whether or not we should view it as bad or good. And yes, immigrants are individuals as well, and obviously they generate different benefits to their new host country. And there are also some as well who just go for the hell of it, to start a new life to get away from their old, not necessarily meaning they will work for it. =)

Yes it all depends on their actions since inmigration has the benefit of social development in terms of the cultural diversities.

I agree on this point as well.

Also like Fonix stated before, people fear what they don't understand (main characteristic of humans which is to fear the unknown), so that's why they take such actions and end up hating people from another countries.

But, using US as an example, if it weren't for migration countries like US wouldn't even exists. The people from Europe migrated from their countries to America, a land that was already inhabited by "indians".

If it was up to me, I would sum that up as 'ignorance'. The U.S. was created by immigrants, yes, and look where it is now. =)

So in short, the largest civilazations of the world had a beginning with a group of people migrating to another territory and establishing themselves on it to develop their society.

The effects of immigration on a particular civilization or nation not only change society, but the sheer morals of that civ as well. Eventually, the demographics would change the whole mindset and constituency of the nation as well, making it evolve, or whatever else you might want to call it.

i pretty much agree with u there 100% especially about the demanding of houses, benefits etc thats money that could br put into our hospitals and schools.

Yes, of course, I agree.

I much agree with this statement since I think that those who don't work doesn't have any right to demand anything from those who spend day and night trying to earn their living.

It's not fair you know, but as much as we hated, nothing is fair in this world and that's a reality.

It's basically like leeching; you don't give back and you suck everything in.
Historically speaking, most immigrants, I'm speaking of the old days, merely lived off the land and served no one. Basically why the empires died out, because they couldn't produce as much as the populace desired.

 

[Fonix]

I personally dont think immigrants on a whole "leech", for example, here in my school we have 3 polish students who honestly work there arses off for a good education, yet they get stereotyped by the majority of people in my year. Its quite sickening. sorry bit of a rant there, but it gets to me you know?

 

[Warbsywoo]

I personally dont think immigrants on a whole "leech", for example, here in my school we have 3 polish students who honestly work there arses off for a good education, yet they get stereotyped by the majority of people in my year. Its quite sickening. sorry bit of a rant there, but it gets to me you know?

I was talking about immigrants who just come in and do nothing, of course.

I mean, I'm an immigrant myself, and I work to make everything around me better, though I don't really see improvement that much, you know? It takes all sorts to make something happen, and it's only in numbers that the full effects of immigration can be felt.

Take the U.S. again, no racism intended, here but Hispanics are generally stereotyped as typical farm workers, though most of my Hispanic classmates are honest, hardworking people.

Stereotyping, in a way, is something that binds people down, and I honestly don't see the point in it, the world already is full of immigrants anyhow.
I hope that makes sense.

 

[Dean Winchester]

I personally dont think immigrants on a whole "leech", for example, here in my school we have 3 polish students who honestly work there arses off for a good education, yet they get stereotyped by the majority of people in my year. Its quite sickening. sorry bit of a rant there, but it gets to me you know?

Yes, that's why we can't just generalize and judge a whole community that way and clasify them as "leeches". That's one of the first rules of analizing and writing about a certain subject, don't create an stereotype just because there's a group of people that thinks that way.

I have a friend that came from japan and she works way too hard for education as well. The hell she is extremely inteligent and agrees with me most of the times when we discuss about this subject.

It all depends on each person's point of view, whether if they think inmigrants as "leeches of society" or not, their opinions will eventually influence the decisions of the government and in the end affect the way people think of a certain group.

 

[Fonix]

Yep, its all a bit sad really, how people cant just get along in the big wide world, we have enough problems without this added prejudice.

 

[Warbsywoo]

I know. Though, in my opinion, it's getting better, or rather it was better than I originally thought. When I first arrived over to California, I though I was going to get discriminated upon because of my speech.
Not.

What I'm saying is, it is quite sad that prejudice is in existence, but I suppose it's not so blatant now than it was before. Usually accept immigrants, seeing as I am one.

 

[Dean Winchester]

Yes and prejudice leads to hate, and hate leads to violence, and violence therfore leads to suffering which causes most of the problems arround the world. (wow....Yoda....)

In the end we are all equall, our biological composition is almost the same (not counting the genetical diversities).

We are all humans and we are all bound to live in this planet. Our actions will affect everyone that lives in our planet and in the end it will harm us as well.

 

[Warbsywoo]

Totally agree with Julius.
What's the point of discriminating and fighting if we know we are all going to be stuck on this planet for quite some time?

So, I suppose, the hatred and dislike of immigrations comes, like you said, from fear of the unknown, and I suppose, sheer nationalism itself.
I don't get how we could even be, because it's most likely we came from immigrants ourselves.
Quite hypocritical, in my opinion.

 

[Fonix]

Fear of the unknown drives so much of human society and basic fears if you think about it.

Fear of the dark for example, that is just fear of the unknown, and a much more controversial one is religion. We cant bear the fault of dying and "not-knowing" so we create our own afterlife (absolutely no offense to any religions people, just my view)

 

[Dean Winchester]

Yes since our ancestors were inmigrants somewhere in a distant past and that makes us inmigrants as well. But that also creates another question: "Who gave us the right to decide where we belong?"

We are all equall, with the ability to think for ourselves and come up to a solution. How come we can create wonderful things and become a really advanced civilization (in terms of technology) and still we can't find an answer to this problem?

The answer is prejudice, which blinds our decisions and turns us into mere copies of the public opinion. As long as we don't think for ourselves without caring what they think of us we don't have the right to call ourselves an inteligent advanced civilization.

 

[Fonix]

Wow, your pretty clever, well cleverer than me anyway

You speak alot of sense, and I agree with you. As long as the human race continues to "care" about public opinion, we will never evolve our moral ideals.

 

[Warbsywoo]

Yes since our ancestors were inmigrants somewhere in a distant past and that makes us inmigrants as well. But that also creates another question: "Who gave us the right to decide where we belong?"

The answer to that: No one does, it's simply the state of our condition, at least, that's how my history teacher explained it. , leave it to him.
We can choose where we want to belong, it's just that immigration barriers and whatnot keep us from doing so, or at least they hinder us in such a way that it seems difficult.

We are all equall, with the ability to think for ourselves and come up to a solution. How come we can create wonderful things and become a really advanced civilization (in terms of technology) and still we can't find an answer to this problem?

The answer is prejudice, which blinds our decisions and turns us into mere copies of the public opinion. As long as we don't think for ourselves without caring what they think of us we don't have the right to call ourselves an inteligent advanced civilization.

Totally agree. I would like to add that the media merely adds fire to the bush. (No pun intended :]) Not that the media is a bad thing or anything, I find it neutral, just that the fact that they report things bad and good alike, only influences minds more.
Not only that, the government seems to encourage prejudice as well, by passing all these immigration restriction acts and whatnot.
So you see, it's a difficult thing to overturn.

 

[Dean Winchester]

Wow, your pretty clever, well cleverer than me anyway

You speak alot of sense, and I agree with you. As long as the human race continues to "care" about public opinion, we will never evolve our moral ideals.

Exactly, and that's why it's up to us, the new generation, to change our world. Sadly in the end, most of us will forget the ideals that we defend so vehemently becoming mere "genetical" copies of our parents.

Though there are so exceptions, and only us must decide if we become part of the "many" who are just pawns of public opinion, or if we become part of the "few" like those famous people who defended their point of view.

For example, many believed that Einstain's theory of relativity was a hoax and that he was just a crazy old dude because of the way he looked. Now he is considered as one of the most inteligent people of our times and most of his theories are used to create the technoloy we are using right now.

Or people like Martin Luther King, who were hated by those who believed in racism.

In the end, the actual humanity can't be considered as an advanced civilization just because we have more knowledge than other past civilizations. That's something that differences us from them, but it proves nothing in terms of "social knowledge" and understanding.

So it's like you say: "As long as the human race continues to "care" about public opinion, we will never evolve our moral ideals."

This sentence summarizes all our thoughts into a single one and proves that not all of us are mere "pawns" os society. How ironic that it is the younger generation, the one they (adults) consider as "impulsive" and ignorant (not all of them consider us as ignorant) which has a deeper sensibility for such subjects like inmigration and that we don't allow ourselves to be controlled by trivial ideals such as "prejudice", "hatred", and "selfishness".