Lucifer Morningstar
The Prince of the East
I was somewhat surprised to not see a thread about this ever present theological dilemna.
Anyone care to express their insights?
Anyone care to express their insights?
Free Will
- Thread starter Lucifer Morningstar
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I fully believe in free will. It's basically because I don't like the fact that I'm not in control of what I do. I don't like to think that, no mater what I choose, it's irrelevant because my life is leading up to a specific moment/goal. That said, I believe in things like there's a person out there for everybody, and all that
It all comes down to me being in control of my life
It all comes down to me being in control of my life
Lucifer Morningstar
The Prince of the East
Do you believe in an omniscient god, such as the one in the teachings of Christianity?
So, you like the thought of being in control of your life, but also that there is some higher power (even if it's only "fate") that has determined that someone out there for you?
I personally take the middle road. We are greatly influenced by factors beyond our control: be it our upbringing and our parents music preferences, or how much the weather affects whether we get to class on time.
These influences greatly shape both our understanding of the world around us, and how we think and act within it.
Free will? Sure. We have a bit of freedom of thought, but completely free? Doubtful.
Lucifer Morningstar
The Prince of the East
It's probably necessary that you specify this when you state your opinions on free will, as reconciling the concept of free will with the concept of omniscience is where the proverbial strings come in.
No, I don't believe in any God at all. I'm totally athiest down to the bone. I believe the "there's someone out there for everyone" arguement simply through a law of odds. Out of the several billion people in the world, there has to be someone for you
Lucifer Morningstar
The Prince of the East
So, you like the thought of being in control of your life, but also that there is some higher power (even if it's only "fate") that has determined that someone out there for you?
I personally take the middle road. We are greatly influenced by factors beyond our control: be it our upbringing and our parents music preferences, or how much the weather affects whether we get to class on time.
These influences greatly shape both our understanding of the world around us, and how we think and act within it.
Free will? Sure. We have a bit of freedom of thought, but completely free? Doubtful.
Some of these things are beyond your control, and more specifically, beyond the realm of choice, which is what free will is really all about.
Do human beings actually have a choice in anything, or are both free will and choice just grandiose illusions?
If fate exists, then free will does not. Or it's redundant. If fate does not exist, then free will could exist. There are certain things that could be done with free will, and others that cannot. We cannot do the impossible with free will, but there are certain things we can do with free will that we couldn't have otherwise. But there will still be things that make free will redundant. Basically, I wouldn't give credit to God if he supposedly gave us a redundant free will.
spell_warrior
Chocobo Breeder
I think free will exists for the same reason as Pooley does. Would you like to think of your life as completely under the control of another. I certainly wouldn't.
Senor Senior
Banned
Obviously it must, for it was your free will which led you and allowed you to create this thread, just as it is my free will which allows me to post my hasty reply, despite the fact that it's five in the morning here and I've got basketball practice in less than four hours.
No, I choose to respectfully disagree, the existence of one does not disprove the existence of the other. In a world full of infinite possibilities such as the world that we live in, it is all too possible that both,
fate and free will exist.
Eidolon
Guru
I don't see how you can...If fate exists, then you will ultimately always come to the same conclusion. However if Free Will exists then you can choose not to. Unless you are saying that you will always happen to choose the path that leads you to the same conclusion as Fate. That would then be Sephiroth's idea of a redundant Free Will.
My personal opinion is that I do believe in Free Will. This is because if I didn't, and believed in Fate, I wouldn't see the point in doing anything at all. Because of that I want to, and do believe in Free Will, just so I can get on with my life, and see what happens in it.
Tifa AC
Blue Mage
Well Sephiroth made a point.
The Question is if you ask for the free will in life?
The Question is if you ask for the free will in life?
QuickSilverD
I Think... Therefore You Are
I believe in free will and God, I do not believe in fate.<o
></o>
<o> </o>
It is obvious that we humans have the quality of being able to choose by ourselves what we want to do, we have free will, this is because we are rational being and have morals, unlike animal that act purely on instincts. With our intelligent we can analyze a situation, and take a conscience decision base on our personal morals and knowledge. <o></o>
<o> </o>
Even went we do have instincts and many of our actions are motivated by them we can also choose to ignore them and do as we like; that is how all the crazy things that you see in nowadays society were created, like the media, games, and machines. <o></o>
<o> </o>
I’m not looking to offend anyone but for me Fate is just a mundane illusion, an excuse to fail and not try hard enough to do anything, the illusion that there is someone out there who was meant for us, instead of go out and look for that person, the illusion that you are meant to do something or be someone, in reality if you don’t put some effort you end up being no one. <o></o>
<o> </o>
I don’t believe that we are born with a very specify reason to exist, rather we gave ourselves that reason: we are not born with a purpose, we look for one and archive it: I’m gonna be somebody, I’m gonna do something for this country, I´m gonna make everyone recognize me, I´m gonna be a Hokage
etc, etc.<o></o>
<o> </o>
Bible says that God gave us free will, unfortunally that means that he gave us the innate ability to ´´screw it up``. What I want to let clear is that if something bad happens to you, it is not God’s fault, it is probably your fault or of another human being, but not God, nor the Devil <o></o>
></o><o
> </o>It is obvious that we humans have the quality of being able to choose by ourselves what we want to do, we have free will, this is because we are rational being and have morals, unlike animal that act purely on instincts. With our intelligent we can analyze a situation, and take a conscience decision base on our personal morals and knowledge. <o
></o><o
> </o>Even went we do have instincts and many of our actions are motivated by them we can also choose to ignore them and do as we like; that is how all the crazy things that you see in nowadays society were created, like the media, games, and machines. <o
></o><o
> </o>I’m not looking to offend anyone but for me Fate is just a mundane illusion, an excuse to fail and not try hard enough to do anything, the illusion that there is someone out there who was meant for us, instead of go out and look for that person, the illusion that you are meant to do something or be someone, in reality if you don’t put some effort you end up being no one. <o
></o><o
> </o>I don’t believe that we are born with a very specify reason to exist, rather we gave ourselves that reason: we are not born with a purpose, we look for one and archive it: I’m gonna be somebody, I’m gonna do something for this country, I´m gonna make everyone recognize me, I´m gonna be a Hokage
etc, etc.<o></o><o
> </o>Bible says that God gave us free will, unfortunally that means that he gave us the innate ability to ´´screw it up``. What I want to let clear is that if something bad happens to you, it is not God’s fault, it is probably your fault or of another human being, but not God, nor the Devil <o
></o>Lucifer Morningstar
The Prince of the East
I believe in free will and God, I do not believe in fate.<o
<o
It is obvious that we humans have the quality of being able to choose by ourselves what we want to do, we have free will, this is because we are rational being and have morals, unlike animal that act purely on instincts. With our intelligent we can analyze a situation, and take a conscience decision base on our personal morals and knowledge. <o
<o
Even went we do have instincts and many of our actions are motivated by them we can also choose to ignore them and do as we like; that is how all the crazy things that you see in nowadays society were created, like the media, games, and machines. <o
<o
I’m not looking to offend anyone but for me Fate is just a mundane illusion, an excuse to fail and not try hard enough to do anything, the illusion that there is someone out there who was meant for us, instead of go out and look for that person, the illusion that you are meant to do something or be someone, in reality if you don’t put some effort you end up being no one. <o
<o
I don’t believe that we are born with a very specify reason to exist, rather we gave ourselves that reason: we are not born with a purpose, we look for one and archive it: I’m gonna be somebody, I’m gonna do something for this country, I´m gonna make everyone recognize me, I´m gonna be a Hokage
<o
Bible says that God gave us free will, unfortunally that means that he gave us the innate ability to ´´screw it up``. What I want to let clear is that if something bad happens to you, it is not God’s fault, it is probably your fault or of another human being, but not God, nor the Devil <o
Alright though, here's the problem - the bible also says that god is omniscient, meaning he knows everything.
If that is the case, then when he first created the world, he knew every single thing that would happen before any of it happened. Therefore, he knows what each and every one of his creations will choose before they are even aware that they have a choice.
If this were the case, can you really call it a choice, or free will at all? That's why I refer to the illusion of free will, you would think you had a choice, but your choice was already decided for you.
Omniscience implies fate, since not knowing the future makes omniscience a contradiction. If omniscience exists, then either free will is redundant or it doesn't exist.
Although I'd be really curious to know if it actually says in the bible that God is omniscient. Or how did Christians know that? Because I cannot remember which verse might have said that.
Although I'd be really curious to know if it actually says in the bible that God is omniscient. Or how did Christians know that? Because I cannot remember which verse might have said that.
Lucifer Morningstar
The Prince of the East
There are different passages where Yahweh says that he knows everything.
There are actually less passages where he speaks of free will in the bible.
There are actually less passages where he speaks of free will in the bible.
QuickSilverD
I Think... Therefore You Are
God could simply choose not to know, he could choose to limit himself just to allow us to be free, if he could not do that, how could we say he has power at all?
Anyway I'm not into getting in God's philosofy now
Anyway I'm not into getting in God's philosofy now
Free will is an evolutionary mechanism to help creatures with large brains and consciousness to have some way of dealing with the barrage of conflicting instincts that have accrued after billions of years of evolution.
As for god, he's a phantom, an intellectual error and personal weakness.
As for god, he's a phantom, an intellectual error and personal weakness.
QuickSilverD
I Think... Therefore You Are
You do realize that this is the "Religious Debate subforum" right? is ok if you don't believe in God, but you could at least show some respect for the people that do.
It helps preventing unnecesary discussions