Fan Fiction Dissidia 012 Discussion

[Fusionist]

Duodecim is 2 years before Dissidia? I didn't know that

As for those additional scenes Nomura said they'll be added (and I'm really slow on the uptake-I didn't realize he was so involved with Duodecim beyond character designs) I assumed he meant more dialog between the characters in Dissidia's game. They mentioned additional dailog before, so I'm guessing it'll be similar with FFXIII where there's all that talking/comments on the field.

There's that frustratingly brilliant plot point about Duodecim-Dissidia: whatever happens in Duodecim will be forgotten in Dissidia for the heroes. For example, if Squall ever finds out Laguna's his dad, he won't remember. Tidus won't remember Jecht was on the good side, and bunch of other stuff I'm sure.

 

[Terra Branford]

Duodecim is 2 years before Dissidia? I didn't know that

As for those additional scenes Nomura said they'll be added (and I'm really slow on the uptake-I didn't realize he was so involved with Duodecim beyond character designs) I assumed he meant more dialog between the characters in Dissidia's game. They mentioned additional dailog before, so I'm guessing it'll be similar with FFXIII where there's all that talking/comments on the field.

Well, I don't know for sure, but judging by some of the character designs, I would say so. They look pretty old/like their game's ages in the Last Dissidia.

I hope that's what they do. There is no need to edit the Last Dissidia's story line. I just hope they only add scenes and dialogue for the original set of characters we had. :>

 

[Dionysos]

Here's the thing though-it's not just the new characters, it would be ALL the Cosmos warriors that would've lost the battle and their memories (and possibly sent home too), right? But why then did only those 10 warriors come back? That's what I really wanna know.

Perhaps the Chaos warrior POV consists of murdering all of the new Cosmos warriors, and the other Cosmos warriors are merely "sent home" by Cosmos as she admits defeat. That would rock.

Alternatively, I think it may be more likely that Cosmos just sees them all as unworthy at this time, and sends them all home, wipes their memories, and perhaps waits until they have experienced more of their storylines (hence waiting until they are older / are likely stronger people emotionally and physically) in their home worlds before summoning them back for the first / final Dissidia.

 

[Fusionist]

Well, I don't know for sure, but judging by some of the character designs, I would say so. They look pretty old/like their game's ages in the Last Dissidia.

Lol, you got sharp eyes-they all still look the same to me as they did back (er, forward) in Dissidia.

Perhaps the Chaos warrior POV consists of murdering all of the new Cosmos warriors, and the other Cosmos warriors are merely "sent home" by Cosmos as she admits defeat. That would rock.

That would rock and but would cause subsequent rage all over the fandom. The idea of Kain, Lightning, Tifa and others being killed would piss of respective fandoms.

I know a lot of people are already looking forward to beating the crap out of particular characters, but I can't imagine S-E killing off heroes in the actual story

Alternatively, I think it may be more likely that Cosmos just sees them all as unworthy at this time, and sends them all home, wipes their memories, and perhaps waits until they have experienced more of their storylines (hence waiting until they are older / are likely stronger people emotionally and physically) in their home worlds before summoning them back for the first / final Dissidia.

lol, so mean, Cosmos. I guess if she was more benevolent about it, yeah, I could see that happening as well. Although again, the age thing isn't very apparent to me-all the characters still look the same age-wise :/

 

[Terra Branford]

I know a lot of people are already looking forward to beating the crap out of particular characters, but I can't imagine S-E killing off heroes in the actual story

Aerith, Galuf, Leo, Shadow and a few others have died in the FF series and they are heros.

(Unless you meant main characters like Cloud or something >.>)

 

[Fusionist]

^ You're mentioning characters that died in their respective games as plot devises (however crap some of them were). Furthermore, those characters aren't in Dissidia.

But yeah, I was talking about the heroes actually in Duodecim. Although characters like Cloud, WoL, Terra, Zidane, etc, are exempt for the fact they're alive in Dissidia.

It's what happens to the Duodecim-specific characters that has me furrowing my brows.

Speaking of which, we still don't know who the Chaos POV is. I know it's getting a little slimmer to continue to hope, but I really think the Chaos POV will be a new character. If that's the case, the question is what happens to that Chaos warrior as well. Would they as well go back to their own world with their memories erased?

Actually, maybe I can get some clarification. In Dissida, at the very end when you defeat the Chaos warriors, did they die, or go back home?

 

[Terra Branford]

^ You're mentioning characters that died in their respective games as plot devises (however crap some of them were). Furthermore, those characters aren't in Dissidia.

Actually, maybe I can get some clarification. In Dissida, at the very end when you defeat the Chaos warriors, did they die, or go back home?

It wouldn't really matter if they aren't in Dissidia. You said SE wouldn't, and I posted that they have done it before.

And yes, they were sent back to their worlds.

 

[Fusionist]

Sorry, I wasn't clear-I was talking specifically about the Dissidia games, not just games in general (although I kind of argue a character death in an isolated game would be acceptable to the fans; fan outrage is more applicable to series me thinks, but I digress)

...So villains get sent back, and likely lost their memories too, eh? And at the end of the game (Dissidia), we know the heroes went back, but did they lose their memories too?

Guess we'll never know (unless they did change something in Dissidia's story that's packaged in Duodecim)

...Oh jeez, I promised myself not to think too much about Dissidia. It's just suppose to be an wtf awesome cross-over game with updated character designs and fun battle system. When did I begin to care more?

Conference is 4-5 days away. I guess that's it for Duodecim updates until then.

 

[Terra Branford]

...So villains get sent back, and likely lost their memories too, eh? And at the end of the game (Dissidia), we know the heroes went back, but did they lose their memories too?

Over at the Dissidia forums, they said translating the new trailers and using the last game as help, it was the Emperor making everyone forget. So if he is finally defeated in the Last Dissidia, they probably didn't forget everyone... :/

 

[bearsfwd]

But going by everything Nomura has said, he'll be adding to the Last Dissidia's story, which means changing the story and adding things, which makes it a ret-con.

Unless he only adds scenes consisting of the characters the Last Dissidia already had and not the new ones.

Adding to does not necessarily mean the same thing as changing. For all we know, when he says adding, he could very well mean adding in everything of the 13th war prior to where Dissidia starts (where all the newly added characters are still alive...or at least some...we won't know until Duodecim is out to see when people die/disappear), while leaving everything from that point on virtually unchanged.

I don't think they would add the new characters into the part of the story that Dissidia covered. That would be just like if in Crisis Core Zack didn't die, then they turned around and remade VII with Zack as a playable character.

So, really, they wouldn't be CHANGING the story, just adding in what they didn't include before...the whole beginning of the 13th war.

But, they may also completely change Dissidia's story to include the new characters all the way until the end, but I personally think that would be a dumb idea.

I'm thinking it will go something like this:

In Duodecim:
1. 12th war
2. Chaos wins
3. 13th war begins
4. Something happens to the new characters (killed or crystals destroyed)

In Dissidia (included in Duodecim)
5. 13th war continues
6. Cosmos wins

 

[Terra Branford]

Adding to does not necessarily mean the same thing as changing. For all we know, when he says adding, he could very well mean adding in everything of the 13th war prior to where Dissidia starts (where all the newly added characters are still alive...or at least some...we won't know until Duodecim is out to see when people die/disappear), while leaving everything from that point on virtually unchanged.

If its just of the previous characters, you're right, it doesn't. But as I've said four times now, if he adds scenes with Laguna, for example, it will be changing it because they weren't in the Last Dissidia.

And adding scenes means more story and if they go with adding new characters, we'll be getting added story with the new characters which means, changes.

Adding things and characters that wasn't in the Last Dissidia, is changing it. Adding story just so you can have more time with Lightning, Tifa, Vaan and Laguna, is ret-con because it will no longer be like how the first (last xD) game was.

I don't think they would add the new characters into the part of the story that Dissidia covered.

So, really, they wouldn't be CHANGING the story, just adding in what they didn't include before...the whole beginning of the 13th war.

This is SE/Nomura we are talking about. They have made spin-off games that change FF7's story (even if it was the smallest things changed). And he never said he wouldn't be adding the new characters, but that he will be adding new scenes.

I was pointing out that if they had made scenes, it wouldn't be a problem BUT if they had made new scenes for the purpose of throwing in Lighting (whoever) into the Last Dissidia where she was not, then it would be changing the story (changing the game) to fit his/their new purpose. Making it a ret-con.

But, they may also completely change Dissidia's story to include the new characters all the way until the end, but I personally think that would be a dumb idea.

Oh, I completely forgot about this option. I had brought this up at the French forums before and no one seemed to they would do it.

This is probably the most likely option for them if they want to include all the new characters, but if they do this, you know they would have to remake this Dissidia 12 when the next prequel of 12 comes out? It would be a never ending chain of remaking and changing...

 

[♥Hikari♥]

I didn't know Duodecim was set 2 years before the 1st dissidia.
So... if in the 1st dissidia Squall is 17 (I wouldn't say he's older), in duodecim he's supposed to be 15??? sounds weird.
Anyway, I was sure that Terra in FFVI was 16, not 18 as Celes. But I checked on wiki, it says she's 18

 

[Terra Branford]

I didn't know Duodecim was set 2 years before the 1st dissidia.
So... if in the 1st dissidia Squall is 17 (I wouldn't say he's older), in duodecim he's supposed to be 15??? sounds weird.
Anyway, I was sure that Terra in FFVI was 16, not 18 as Celes. But I checked on wiki, it says she's 18

I don't know for sure about the time. I am only estimating the age limit by judging the characters and how different they appear

No, no Terra is 18 and Celes is 19 (I think, I never really looked it up) in the start of FF6 and then after the year passes, they are 19 and 20? Or they were both 18 (I know for a fact Terra was 18, not so much for Celes) and then both 19 at the end of the game. :>

Oh...you shouldn't really trust that wikia, if its the right one. It is correct right now, but just be careful, okay?

 

[bearsfwd]

If its just of the previous characters, you're right, it doesn't. But as I've said four times now, if he adds scenes with Laguna, for example, it will be changing it because they weren't in the Last Dissidia.

And adding scenes means more story and if they go with adding new characters, we'll be getting added story with the new characters which means, changes.

Adding things and characters that wasn't in the Last Dissidia, is changing it. Adding story just so you can have more time with Lightning, Tifa, Vaan and Laguna, is ret-con because it will no longer be like how the first (last xD) game was.

This is SE/Nomura we are talking about. They have made spin-off games that change FF7's story (even if it was the smallest things changed). And he never said he wouldn't be adding the new characters, but that he will be adding new scenes.

I was pointing out that if they had made scenes, it wouldn't be a problem BUT if they had made new scenes for the purpose of throwing in Lighting (whoever) into the Last Dissidia where she was not, then it would be changing the story (changing the game) to fit his/their new purpose. Making it a ret-con.

It almost seems like you are missing my point though. I don't think the original Dissida spans the entire 13th war. I think it picks up somewhere in the middle. So any scenes they add with the new characters will probably fit in the timeframe prior to where Dissidia picked up. I highly doubt anything that was covered in Dissidia will get redone to add in the new characters.

Does that make sense this time?

I'm not arguing they won't add scenes. I'm saying that they won't technically be changing anything we know. Since we don't know exactly has happened in the beginning 13th war up until where Dissidia starts, they'll add that stuff in. So, in essence, they aren't changing what we know, but they are adding on to what we know, since we knew nothing.

Like my analogy from before, the way I'm understanding what you are saying would be like if they kept Zack alive at the end of Crisis Core, even though we know from VII that he had died. Thus, changing what we know. However, what I'm trying to describe would be like adding a sequel to a game. It's not changing any of the story from the previous game, it's just adding on more to what we do know.

I hope we are clear now. It seems there is some sort of misunderstanding somewhere along the line. I think in essence we agree, but we don't know what we are agreeing on.

For example, adding stuff about Lightning between the start of the 13th war and the start of Dissidia wouldn't be changing anything, since, based upon what we know, nothing is changing. We know nothing about what happened just prior to Dissida. In this insatance, they are EXPANDING what we know.

I think "change" is the wrong word to use here, unless the actual events of Dissida end up getting changed.

 

[Terra Branford]

It almost seems like you are missing my point though. I don't think the original Dissida spans the entire 13th war. I think it picks up somewhere in the middle. So any scenes they add with the new characters will probably fit in the timeframe prior to where Dissidia picked up. I highly doubt anything that was covered in Dissidia will get redone to add in the new characters.

Does that make sense this time?

Oh well we know the Last Dissidia we had isn't the whole war in one (am I understanding this right?) game, that's not what they mean by adding to it.
They want to add new scenes to the Last one to fit the story in this one, because they most likely messed the story up or found an inconsistent spot in Dissidia 12.

The Dissidia we have is the 13th battle, the one that the Cosmos warriors finally won. But what I meant by my earlier posts is that Nomura and SE are talking about adding new scenes and story to the 13th Battle (The dissidia already out) from this Dissidia 12 game so its consistent again. Which means ret-con.

I just hope that's not the case, but judging on what we have right now, it appears as so...

I'm not arguing they won't add scenes. I'm saying that they won't technically be changing anything we know. Since we don't know exactly has happened in the beginning 13th war up until where Dissidia starts, they'll add that stuff in. So, in essence, they aren't changing what we know, but they are adding on to what we know, since we knew nothing.

We know they weren't in the Last Dissidia though.

If they add them to the Last Dissidia, war 13, then it will be changed because those characters weren't in the Last Dissidia.

Like my analogy from before, the way I'm understanding what you are saying would be like if they kept Zack alive at the end of Crisis Core, even though we know from VII that he had died. Thus, changing what we know. However, what I'm trying to describe would be like adding a sequel to a game. It's not changing any of the story from the previous game, it's just adding on more to what we do know.

I hope we are clear now. It seems there is some sort of misunderstanding somewhere along the line. I think in essence we agree, but we don't know what we are agreeing on.

Yes, it would be like that I suppose. But let me describe what I mean.

Last Dissidia; characters in games are:
WoL, Firion, OK, Cecil, Buntz, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Tidus.

And this is what, judging by Nomura/Se, I don't want happening.

Edited version of the Last Dissidia; characters in game is now:
WoL, Firion, OK, Cecil, Buntz, Terra, Cloud, Tifa, Squall, Laguna, Zidane, Tidus, Yuna, Vaan and Lightning.

With changes like that, it would be make it into a ret-con'd game.
Imagine them releasing the Dissidia we already have with those characters in it and then changing the story to fit the new characters.

That's what it appears is going to happen and that's what I'm trying to say.

For example, adding stuff about Lightning between the start of the 13th war and the start of Dissidia wouldn't be changing anything, since, based upon what we know, nothing is changing. We know nothing about what happened just prior to Dissida. In this insatance, they are EXPANDING what we know.

I think "change" is the wrong word to use here, unless the actual events of Dissida end up getting changed.

Ah, now I see why I was confusing xD

Okay, at the bolded. That's what Nomura/SE has made hits about changing. That's what I've been trying to say. They might change the actual events of Dissidia to fit the new story and characters.

(Wow, sorry I was confusing >.>)

 

[Jquestionmark]

Not to throw a wrench into the works, but in the grand scheme of things, isn't the plot really just an excuse to make a fighting game including all of these characters?

Final Fantasies are well known for their plots, but the entire fighting game genre isn't usually considered when plots come up. Mucking with the story of a game with rich character development and a fascinating plot and setting would be irritating, but I don't see any reason that altering the plot of Dissidia would be an issue.

I'm just just excited to see what characters they include and how they alter game mechanics. I play Monster Hunter titles to hunt monsters, Final Fantasy games for plot, and fighting games (even if Final Fantasy is in the name) for cool mechanics/gameplay.

Either way, I imagine it'll go more like bearsfwd is expecting, and they won't be changing scenes we've already seen.

 

[Terra Branford]

Not to throw a wrench into the works, but in the grand scheme of things, isn't the plot really just an excuse to make a fighting game including all of these characters?

That would be the case if the game didn't have story in it and it wouldn't be the case of they felt like they wanted to add the new characters to the old story

 

[bearsfwd]

We know they weren't in the Last Dissidia though.

If they add them to the Last Dissidia, war 13, then it will be changed because those characters weren't in the Last Dissidia.

Right, they weren't in the game, however, they may have been around at the beginning of the 13th war. We don't know for sure what happened. There are some quotes I pointed out in an earlier post that make it sound almost like there were more Cosmos warriors at the beginning of the war than what we had in Dissidia. All the new characters may have been there in the beginning, but if they were "killed" or their crystals were destroyed, that could explain their absence from the events of Dissidia.

Based upon the assumption that Dissidia was not the entire 13th war, then there is still room prior to the events of Dissidia for the developers to fill in story that we don't know, thus not much change is needed to be made (expect maybe some new conversations in the Dissidia story referring to the "death" or disappearance of the new characters).

Yes, it would be like that I suppose. But let me describe what I mean.

With changes like that, it would be make it into a ret-con'd game.
Imagine them releasing the Dissidia we already have with those characters in it and then changing the story to fit the new characters.

That's what it appears is going to happen and that's what I'm trying to say.

This is where we differ. I do not think anything from Dissidia will be changed drastically, such as adjusting the story to add the new characters in. I think Dissidia will stay as is, maybe with some very minor changes (probably mostly text changes).

The only thing that I think will be different is that we'll know everything pertaining to the 13th war (since it seems like Dissidia started somewhere in the middle of the war) and what happened to the new characters that prevented them from appearing during the events of Dissidia.

 

[Starships]

About the lack of villains being in the game, I reckons that Cloud and Terra are going to be apart of the Chaos team. Cloud will be controlled by Sephiroth and Terra will be controlled by Kefka.... and then Cloud and Terra go and make some babies..

No, erm in all serious, they'll probably add in Edgar who pretended that his Kingdom was part of Kefka's alliance so he'll be another Chaos warrior and Beatrix from FF IX who was a loyal solider of Brahne and followed and obeyed Kuja's plans and orders. FF V I don't see any issue them adding in Fairs. She could use the power of the crystals to fight, like onion knight and the Chaos side will already have Chaos, Garland, Paramecia, Dark Cloud, Golbez, Kain, Ex-Death, Kefka, Terra, Cloud, Sephiroth, Ultimecia, Kuja, and maybe Edgar and Beatrix. That's heaps of Chaos fighters so don't really see the issue in the lack of Chaos fighters. If they don't put Terra and Cloud in the Chaos side and don't add in Edgar and Beatrix, then might agree with the problem of lack Chaos fighters.

But I really do hope that Terra x Cloud will be canon. I'm interested in the Fan thing, and hope that you really can make Terra and Cloud come together. andalove:

 

[bearsfwd]

But I really do hope that Terra x Cloud will be canon. I'm interested in the Fan thing, and hope that you really can make Terra and Cloud come together. [/FONT][/COLOR]andalove:

Nada. There have been screenshots showing Vaan and Terra paired up, just like OK was paired up with Terra in Dissidia. Cloud and Terra may run into each other, but I don't think that they will normally be paired up. However, from what I have heard, there will be some parts of the story where you can choose a party.

Other than that, fan fiction should never be cannon, sorry...even if everything about it is cannon, like parings and such, but the story is something entirely new. Some stuff that is written there is just too outrageous. However, if you have the ability to choose your party at times in story mode and choose you assists in other things, then feel free to do whatever you want, even if it is based off of fan fiction. I just don't think developers should go that route.