Being Serious For a Change...

[The Illusive Man]

Now this thread has been a long time coming, and to be quite honest, if it gets, locked, me banned or whatnot it'll only prove that what I have to say, people dont want to listen to, but im going to try and keep this as civil as possible...

Now to begin with, you all know I'm a person that enjoys to joke around, and will often take jokes thrown back....most of the time in good humor, however....As has become of increasing Frequency people immediatley get defensive with me when I make a joke, making me feel bad for saying such a thing in the first place, but they are allowed to make humor of me without me being able to retort, because of the "walking on eggshells" thing.

Next the subject of Glasgow, a lot of you were wondering "why did he kick off like that?"....Well I had to pre-book the time off at work, time I cannot alter in any way shape or form and with the current economic climate, booking the time off was a risky move in the first place as at the time we were unsure of what was going to happen as the company was in contract negotiations.

I had also spoke to a few friends that were interested in going as well and we were actually preparing too book rooms for what would have been this week, so as I hope you can apprieciate, to have all the plans dashed in a split second change of mind....wouldnt go down well with anyone, and thats why I was so mad, because im now stuck with a costume that I now have to plan a different halloween do with and had to tell my friends, we couldnt go that week to glasgow anymore...

Of course I do not expect a date to be re-changed because of this, but at least a bit of acknowledgement would have been nice, but ce la vie, it is what it is...

Then theres the situation of outright being blanked....nothing annoys me more than being outright blanked by people.....This is becoming a more recuring occurance, with either people just dropping silent in the SB the second I speak and as soon as I "appear" to have left, they all start talking again (im not paranoid ive actually seen this trick pulled MORE than once and other people whom I do get on with no names mentioned, have mentioned they have noticed this "blanking behaviour too), to my posts being ignored in threads....... IF YOU DONT LIKE ME...SAY SO.....and I'll do my best to not be in the SB or not participate in the thread if your around!

I like to be as honest as I can with people, a trait that often trips me up, so Id prefer the same in return.

Sorry for this post but I felt its high time I said something as I feel im walking in a viscious circle at the moment, and its beginning to get quite...annoying at the least!

But one thing is for sure, Like me, dont like me none of this matters...there are fair few people I do feel I get on with and I wont be budging from FFF because of me not meeting some peoples expectations!

You either take me as I am, or well you learn to live with it, I'm here to stay so get used to it...unless I get banned for doing something stupid....I'm going to be here for a looooong time!

 

[blakstang98]

Well, I for one never noticed people disappearing when you show up on SB, but then again I don't make it on that often. I never thought much about it, but the same thing basically happens to me, it seems like when I first arrive, everyone leaves. I always took that to mean they were exploring threads, but then again you're more well known around here than me.

All I know is, you're pretty funny on SB, I enjoy the humor, and I have no problems with you at all (or anyone on FFF for that matter). I'm figuring the best idea might be to PM these supposed individuals and resolve matters that way. I'm sure you'll be able to resolve these issues, so long as you're assertive about it. Best of luck man!

 

[Bambi]

Im in and out of the shoutbox all the time, I turn up say hello, get distracted and Im off, Ive been at it all day, Mondays are when I catch up on my forumy shit

RE, the Glasgow thing, Im trying to cater for the majority, and I don't see WHY something 6 MONTHS in advance is so impossible to book off work/change the dates a week ...you're entitled to holidays, so I dont get why its so hard to USE them, Id never of had time off workif that was the case, most of the time I work last minute...how do you do anything spare of the moment? I guess my job was just more flexible with time off =/

Anyway, I don't want to get into any rows, Ive nowt against you, so Il leave it at that

 

[The Illusive Man]

Im in and out of the shoutbox all the time, I turn up say hello, get distracted and Im off, Ive been at it all day, Mondays are when I catch up on my forumy shit

RE, the Glasgow thing, Im trying to cater for the majority, and I don't see WHY something 6 MONTHS in advance is so impossible to book off work/change the dates a week ...you're entitled to holidays, so I dont get why its so hard to USE them, Id never of had time off workif that was the case, most of the time I work last minute...how do you do anything spare of the moment? I guess my job was just more flexible with time off =/

Anyway, I don't want to get into any rows, Ive nowt against you, so Il leave it at that

As I explained to Lew on msn, I am actually part of a small team, and we have to work our holidays around each other so as a rule once time is booked off it cant be changed.

By the economic crisis, I was not 100% sure about my job security until the other night, so having time off was risky, as people (I know it sounds pathetic but its often true)..people that are more inclinded to take holidays are usually among the first to be culled in a lay-off.

I also did not post it looking for argument, nor did I post it looking for a date change, but it would have been nice to at least have my existence and what I was saying at the time....at least noted as everyone in that thread just seemed to outright cast it off like it didnt even matter.

 

[Dionysos]

I do feel for you.

I remember when you were saying how you had managed to book work off, and that it was a struggle to do even that, and then ordered the costume and everything.
Then to have everyone just ignore your comments when you were saying that you could no longer go if the date was changed.

I'm a little uneasy with all that to be honest (and I have nothing against any of the members involved in this, I'm going to assume it was accidental or something else that I don't know about, and I still love you all etc).

I can understand everyone feeling all sad when it was several others that couldn't make the date, and to change the date to fit them etc. But what I dislike is that you got no acknowledgement. I felt uneasy reading that as it was as if you were taken to not be there at all. Everyone was commenting with "boo hoo" this "boo hoo" that with everyone else, but you were ignored.

I don't know if it was entirely intentional or not, and if it is because some people have problems with you I honestly don't know why, as I think you're a great person and you're pretty funny etc. You're also a pretty main person at the moment on this forum. Your'e "in the loop" (or at least the outer ring of the loop) so to speak with a lot of the big members.

About the SB, I don't know to the extent of the silences. I feel really annoyed and angry at the SB some of the time, as I go onto it, say something and sometimes get no reply. Then Person A comes on and does a ":_:" or "(OvO)" symbol and get pounced on and greeted with roars of praise by 20 people who have just been secretly waiting in the background! That sometimes makes me feel crap so if thats what it is, then I know the feeling. However, I have paranoia issues of my own, so my experiences with this might not be as I percieve them, but I don't know.

If it is that x20 and general awkwardness around people, where you think people have personal issues with you, and that this is seen with evidence more than what I have just stated then, then that really sucks.

I personally don't see any problem wth you. You're an active member, your'e friendly, you have a good sense of humour, you're chatty in the SB, and just generally seem like a nice person.

I'm confused, to say the least. I just wish everybody could get on and be accepting of each other.

 

[Big Casino]

I felt uneasy reading that as it was as if you were taken to not be there at all. Everyone was commenting with "boo hoo" this "boo hoo" that with everyone else, but you were ignored.

Thats not true at all. You should take another read argor.
Uhm i dont really notice that get ignored on the sb, ive never seen it happen to be honest. You have to remember that alot of members on this site are really close and theyre always gunna be waiting for their friend to reply. Im guilty of this myself, there are certain people when whom shout in the sb i will go and speak to as i know them better and can keep the conversation going. I dont ignore anyone out of spite, i just dont have anything to say to them, which sounds rude but i mean no harm by it.

As for Glasgow, i do feel bad that you cant come, or wont come rather. I know you say you cant change the holiday dates and that your work pays people off left right and centre for phoning in sick but everybody gets ill. Why not just pull a sickie that one time? Its only 2 days innit? Or tell them you have a family emergancy or something, theres always a way around things. And remember the costume only cost 20 quid its not exactly a huuuuge loss if you decide not to come.

 

[CassinoChips]

*silence*








>.>









<.<





I kid.

I usually lurk in the SB and only shout if something tickles my fancy. Part of that is because I still feel like the FNG in a lot of ways, one of those ways being the same thing that Argor is talking about. Not that I am (or Argor is, for that matter, I'm sure) so much of an attention whore that I immediately want to be accepted into the fold. And I know that people have been on here for 2... 3.... 75 years and have struck up friendships and all that. But it's an interesting phenomenon to be on the outside looking in.

You can say "just jump in" as much as you want, but the SB is pretty intimidating for new people, or at least new people with more than 6 brain cells. And the SB and forum in general does come across as pretty clique-y the vast majority of the time. So I feel your (JV and Argor) pain on some levels.

 

[The Illusive Man]

Thats not true at all. You should take another read argor.
Uhm i dont really notice that get ignored on the sb, ive never seen it happen to be honest. You have to remember that alot of members on this site are really close and theyre always gunna be waiting for their friend to reply. Im guilty of this myself, there are certain people when whom shout in the sb i will go and speak to as i know them better and can keep the conversation going. I dont ignore anyone out of spite, i just dont have anything to say to them, which sounds rude but i mean no harm by it.

As for Glasgow, i do feel bad that you cant come, or wont come rather. I know you say you cant change the holiday dates and that your work pays people off left right and centre for phoning in sick but everybody gets ill. Why not just pull a sickie that one time? Its only 2 days innit? Or tell them you have a family emergancy or something, theres always a way around things. And remember the costume only cost 20 quid its not exactly a huuuuge loss if you decide not to come.

In the past 6 months, I've seen at least 30 people dragged into diciplinaries for taking time off sick, one of them who only took a single day sick got put on a final written warning for it (yes im not shitting you he really did) 15 of them got there hours cut and thrown onto the day shift, 5 of them were dismissed and the rest suspended.

We do have union reps but to be totally honest with you, there nothing but puppets and "yes men" and do very little....if at all to help any staff member with a grievance.....the outcome, the warehouse is run by a bunch of bullies that are running the place into the ground, I consider myself lucky that my boss is one of the few "decent" managers working there...

My point was not about it being "20 quid"...but the principle of not even being concidered for a moment (by the vast majority), what would have happened had it been a week later and I had booked the rooms? I wouldnt be calmly arguing my point....I would have been outright furious as I would expect anyone to be...

But like I said before, I totally appreciate and understand that you could not go on the above date, and I'm happy that you are now able to go, You are one of the people I consider myself to get on with, and probably the only one that actually showed some concideration towards my situation which I highly respect and thank you for.

To some obviously this is going to seem like some mindless rant and someone having "sour grapes" or whatnot....but do yourselves a favor...put yourself in my shoes for a moment and tell me just how you would react...

I bet it wouldnt be all that different from how I have.

 

[Ness]

Heh, I didn't think I was going to respond to this at first, but here I am. I'm not going to comment on the particulars of the situation(s), but I'm going to offer some general advice.

People need to keep in mind that, while this is a forum and a center for social interaction, it is still THE INTARNETS. This implies two important facts:

A) The rules for regular face-to-face social interaction don't necessarily apply.

-AND-

B) The Golden Rule does not always apply.

I bring up Point A in regards to the ShoutBox and other things like that. The thing is, you can never tell what someone on "the other end", so to speak, is saying or doing while they're shouting. It's not like a room where a bunch of actual people are standing, and you know if they say nothing in response that they are ignoring you. They might be walking the dog, getting something to eat...hell, they could be taking a shit. The point is, you have no idea if they're actually ignoring you on purpose. Maybe they are...but life's too short to sit around and fret about such things. I'll also grant Argor's point, in fact I rather enjoyed that paragraph because it's true sometimes, and the idea of "roars of praise" made me laugh. But I'll get to that.

Point B really applies to all facets of life, but I've seen that on the Internets in particular, it tends to apply more than usual. Because this is a unique environment where people can say whatever they want (with some limits, naturally) with little regard for the feelings of others, if they so choose. It also affords those who would not normally be able to act like "tough guys" the chance to finally push people around. Long story short, people on the Internet aren't required to be "themselves". Some people will have a tendency to act out more (whether by acting "overly aloof and intelligent" or "incredibly boastful")...and you/everyone needs to accept that. Don't get so worked up over what people say/do in this place.

The fact is, the only thing you can control in this situation is how you choose to respond. For the record, making a thread like this isn't the best way to dispel any negative feelings some might have towards you. So, my advice to you is to, well, don't let it bother you so much. And if you can't help it, keep it to yourself or go take a walk or something. It's just a little unfair to expect everyone you meet in a setting like this to accept you for who you are. It's a shame, but some people aren't very accepting. Besides, if people disagree with a certain facet of your personality...that's their prerogative.

tl;dr Don't take things here so seriously...I think that's a lesson that everyone could stand to learn.

 

[Dionysos]

Thats not true at all. You should take another read argor.

Well this is what I meant.


Reaction to you saying you can't go:

................

NUUUU LEWWWWWWWWW

Pretty reasonable ^^

Reaction to Saix:

if people cant do that weekend, would the weekend before work?

Again, sorting things out. Pretty reasonable ^^^.


I'm not going to post the reaction to Shaun's revealing that he can't go, as there was no reply. Other than continuing discussion of changing the dates. Passing him off as if he wasn't there. Even "sorry to hear that" would have been good from someone. I'm not going to say it was intentional, it's just how it seems when I read that thread.

This caused him to be upset, which I can quite understand, leading to comments about monocles, and lawls, and then everyone was confused about what the problem was.


I think changing the date is fair enough, etc. If several people can't make it, then changing the date to suit people is obviously the approach. I just felt that Shaun didn't get a "nooo" or a "that's a shame" comment, at least in that thread, which would make him feel like crap especially as he had already dedicated a lot of his plans for this already.

I'm not saying it was done on purpose, I'm just saying that I feel I have observed the reason for his distress.


Again, I'm not having a go at anyone, and this is really awkward, as I like you all etc. I just felt bad at the time reading that, and I don't like to see people get like this with each other.

 

[The Illusive Man]

Well this is what I meant.


Reaction to you saying you can't go:





Pretty reasonable ^^

Reaction to Saix:


Again, sorting things out. Pretty reasonable ^^^.


I'm not going to post the reaction to Shaun's revealing that he can't go, as there was no reply. Other than continuing discussion of changing the dates. Passing him off as if he wasn't there. Even "sorry to hear that" would have been good from someone. I'm not going to say it was intentional, it's just how it seems when I read that thread.

This caused him to be upset, which I can quite understand, leading to comments about monocles, and lawls, and then everyone was confused about what the problem was.


I think changing the date is fair enough, etc. If several people can't make it, then changing the date to suit people is obviously the approach. I just felt that Shaun didn't get a "nooo" or a "that's a shame" comment, at least in that thread, which would make him feel like crap especially as he had already dedicated a lot of his plans for this already.

I'm not saying it was done on purpose, I'm just saying that I feel I have observed the reason for his distress.


Again, I'm not having a go at anyone, and this is really awkward, as I like you all etc. I just felt bad at the time reading that, and I don't like to see people get like this with each other.

and that summed up my exact point ive been trying to get across thanks argor ^^

 

[Big Casino]

*silence*
You can say "just jump in" as much as you want, but the SB is pretty intimidating for new people, or at least new people with more than 6 brain cells. And the SB and forum in general does come across as pretty clique-y the vast majority of the time. So I feel your (JV and Argor) pain on some levels.

Thats actually a really good point. When i first joined this forum, actually a good 6 months after i joined i still never used the sb at all. I never really knew anyone and just jumping in to a coversation did seem a little scary so i kept well clear. It wasnt til after i came back to this forum over a year later that i started using it. I got to know members by posting in threads, making small talk etc etc So yeah, its not an easy thing to do i agree.

And argor i see where youre coming from. There wasnt much sympathy shown at all, if any infact. I apolagise Shaun if you felt hurt in anyway. I did say that the date shouldnt be changed just because me and saix couldnt come, but as kelly said she was catered for the majority, which makes me feel a bit awkward, but thats the way its worked out. Hopefully you can come to some arrangement with your bosses as to allow you to come the following week.

 

[Captain Jack]

Then theres the situation of outright being blanked....nothing annoys me more than being outright blanked by people.....This is becoming a more recuring occurance, with either people just dropping silent in the SB the second I speak and as soon as I "appear" to have left, they all start talking again (im not paranoid ive actually seen this trick pulled MORE than once and other people whom I do get on with no names mentioned, have mentioned they have noticed this "blanking behaviour too), to my posts being ignored in threads....... IF YOU DONT LIKE ME...SAY SO.....and I'll do my best to not be in the SB or not participate in the thread if your around!

<start rant>
People do this to me all the time it seems that ive gained more enemys since ive went and started my own forum. I have my own reasons for starting my own, And if people dont like it that I have returned and am still heading OH now bout 3 forums. Then i feel like then they can stfu.

Anyways back on subject. Since i Joined people have always ignored me while i do have some great friends on here, and they talk to me the general consensus i get in posts and on the SB is that im being given the cold shoulder. It pisses me off and i know it is intentional. Im treated like an idiot most of the time and guess what I know That my personallity pisses people off and Know what i aint ever gunna change. Cuz once you get to know me im a pretty cool guy.

</endrant> hahaha

 

[Donald Trump]

<start rant>
People do this to me all the time it seems that ive gained more enemys since ive went and started my own forum. I have my own reasons for starting my own, And if people dont like it that I have returned and am still heading OH now bout 3 forums. Then i feel like then they can stfu.

Anyways back on subject. Since i Joined people have always ignored me while i do have some great friends on here, and they talk to me the general consensus i get in posts and on the SB is that im being given the cold shoulder. It pisses me off and i know it is intentional. Im treated like an idiot most of the time and guess what I know That my personallity pisses people off and Know what i aint ever gunna change. Cuz once you get to know me im a pretty cool guy.

</endrant> hahaha

I doubt it's to do with your forum. I think both Mark and JR held/hold positions on the forum's staff? No one has screamed Judas etc at either of them. By and large I think people don't know or don't care about your forum enough to actively ignore you. There are a myriad of reasons for people not responding to posts you make/threads etc.

As for people ignoring people in the SB, I admit I do it. I don't see shout by 'x' and ignore it because I dislike x, but because what someone has said doesn't interest me. Last night for example I ignored everyone else whilst i was talking to Jimmeh. I think people are forgetting that you aren't obligated to respond or reply in the SB, that's why it dies from time to time. If you want to be greeted when you enter the SB say something hugely controversial, otherwise there's no guarantee that people will respond, except of course by having a coloured name like me

I'm not going to post the reaction to Shaun's revealing that he can't go, as there was no reply. Other than continuing discussion of changing the dates. Passing him off as if he wasn't there. Even "sorry to hear that" would have been good from someone. I'm not going to say it was intentional, it's just how it seems when I read that thread

That's certainly one interpretation. When I first read through it, I saw that no one replied. However the people that replied to Saix and Lew was Vikki and Kelly, who are the ones that if any blame is to be placed, that the blame must be placed upon. I don't feel that they would intentionally ignore someone to spite them.

If you feel people are deliberately ignoring you, PM them. Making a thread calling out no one in particular isn't going to make you more liked. Perhaps that's nto what you care about, if so you can't complain if people don't like you.

 

[Bambi]

I was having a convo with Shaun at the same time on Msn I refuse to accept any 'blame' when I was just trying to come to other arrangements to see what suited everyone whilst also talking on msn about it, sheesh

Oh and also while Im at it

Its fucking inconvienient as FUCK for me to do that following week, not only am I putting myself out by arranging this, getting the damn blame, I now have to fanny about with weekend long child care, that gunna involve my mum or someone booking time off work

Never mind that I should have a job then myself aswel, so that's 2 things plus planning.

Ughhhh

and since when were we inviting friends? This is an FFF thing, THAT is NO ONES fault, I cant speak for anyone else but I wouldnt be comfortable with a load of someones friends coming along

 

[Serah]

Okay putting on the blame for something as ridiculous and petty as this whole fucking argument is is HIGHLY unfair. Just like Justin said, how do you even know what Kelly and Vikki were doing behind their computers at at the time? Were their eyes planted right onto the shoutbox whist Shaun explained that he couldn't be there? Can you even say they were? You were sitting right there up Vikki OR Kelly arses watching? No, I don't think so, so putting the blame on them is stupid and irrelevant.

Shaun, my problem with you is that you're way too fucking blunt sometimes. I didn't appreciate the name change comment you gave me just yesterday. In fact it well hurt my feelings because not only is Celeste somebody I created but she's also very special to me in ways you'd never begin to understand. I was having a chat with a friend who earlier who saw that comment yesterday and thought you were way out of line when you said that to me. Said friend brought up a good point. It's like you going into somebody's house and telling them straight up you don't like their wallpaper. You just don't DO that kind of shit. You don't go around saying things like that because it's flat out rude. That's my problem with you. There are times and places for saying certain things, and yesterday my friend, was not a time or place for it, ever. That's my problem.

Also, Kelly doesn't have to be practically busting her arse just to get all this shit arranged for everybody so the majority can be there, but she is! She could just blow it all off and make you lot do the rest of by yourselves, but she's not. All she's doing is trying to help get all this set up so everybody has a chance to meet.

 

[Davey Gaga]

I hate you all, I want none of you in Glasgow in October

Shaun, if you knew beforehand how difficult it would be to release yourself from a commitment you made to leave work, then perhaps you should've held off booking anything until you were absolutely, 100% certain that everyone was going for the same thing? In your shoes, I'd have probably waited until someone else booked their accomodation or travel.

As far as "ignoring" you goes, it's all pretty much been covered - it's nothing to do with you. People either can't be bothered replying, have nothing to say or are already mid-conversation and don't want to deviate from original topics or whatever, I don't know. I think someone mentioned "too sensitive", I'm just going to reiterate that.

 

[Bambi]

well, I said as far as I knew it was 100% confirmed tbh, but I cant help if things DO actually change, shit happens...and tbh, 5 months is ample time to change holiday dates from work, everyone's entitled to full holidays, and not being able to book/change one maybe 2 dates 5 months in advance is something I cant get my head around

I already said Im not booking anything til end of June start of July anyway

 

[Dionysos]

I think blaming people is probably the worst thing to be doing right now to be honest, and I'm pretty sure that that was not Shaun's intention in this thread.

Kelly, from what I've observed in the October thread and SB etc, you've done a great job with the planning, and I appreciate the sticky situation the date changing has been to get it to work with everyone. I don't think anybody should be labelling bad planning on your part, and I don't think they are.

What the fuss is about is probably just a misunderstanding. Shaun felt upset that people weren't caring so much. Not so much about wanting to change back for him, but just generally making comments or whatever. But that thread is probably misleading, as on its own it could simply have been read wrong, and also there is no way of knowing what was going on on msn or the SB or anything else.

Anyway, I don't see what good going round in cycles with this thing is going to do now. None of this was probably intentional to be honest. Misread signals etc.

 

[GanjaKat]

im not going to type a big rant like everyone else has, but i feel for you jill bro, i know the feeling of having ALL yyour posts/threads ignored. minus a few people putting the idea or what ever the post is down, and i have noticed ill come to the shoutbox and it would have been active and you have spoken and its ddropped... and i hope you dont feel in any way im part of this...=} i find i have a few select people on here who do "have the time" to talk to me, and so, such is a reason for me to stay

plus when the F**k was the glasgow trip canselled/moved ?