Abortion - your views.

[RioDragon]

There's a difference between cancer and a foetus, though. A cancer doesn't become a person. ^^

So, basically, you think abortion is right because (in your point of view) you're basically giving yourself a cancer, which is a stupid idea in the first place on your own part. So, it's no harm, no foul, if a life that was going to be your responsibility just gets blended up? Want a foetus shake with that? ^^

 

[Icarus]

Placebo, you are absolutely wrong. It is no growth. It's a child, you insensitive clod. That "growth" has big potential. It could save your life, take care of you when you are old, and most of all, you'll be able to parent a child. That last one is the best of all. And unless you name yourself or smoke and drink "Ciggarettes and Alcohol" your kid won't be "a cancer". And by the way, it's not "foetus", it's "fetus".

 

[Scarlet]

Placebo is right, it can be spelled foetus.

Can we avoid the personal attacks and insults? Thank you.

I'm still pro-choice btw. I think women should have more of an opinion on this subject. We are the ones giving birth and dealing with this human for the rest of our lives. Men can easily run away and not deal with a child.

Yes, it's easy bring a child into a world but taking care of another human being is a lot of money, scarfice, basically giving your whole life away to someone else. If I were to find out I was pregant I would abort. I'm not bringing a child into this world in the codition I am at the moment. Sorry, but I don't want to be living off of 40k a year and living off of WIC checks. I want to finish school and do something with my life. I grew up in a soficiated soicety so, throught my whole life I was told to become a succesful woman, not a mom at a young age. Plus, I'd like to enjoy my life childless for a while.

I just don't really appericate men going against aborition when they have no idea what a woman goes through to have a child. As I said before, men can easily run away and not support the child at all.

why did they have sex in the first place?

Because sex is a part of life. It's like needing food, love, and secure. They have an urge to have sex.

Now in todays society, teen pregnancies are fairly high. Now if a teen gets pregnant and they were not ready to have a child, why did they have sex in the first place? This just dosnt apply to teens, but anyone who partakes in premarital sex.

It's because you have dumb fuck religious parents and schools who are like: "OMGZ! GOD FOR BID WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN SEX EDUCATION! IT'S EVIL AND AGAINST THE BIBLE!" If they were taught sex education, and that if their parents weren't so damn ignorant, then they should have easy access to contraception. That's why you hear catholic, baptist girls get pregnant often.

Around here they did teach sex education. Not one girl I graduated with out of 100+ got pregnant. The grades below me and the ones who graduated after. Then again, who knows which ones got abortions. Other than that, teen pregnancy is looked down upon here.

 

[Donald Trump]

Placebo, you are absolutely wrong. It is no growth. It's a child, you insensitive clod. That "growth" has big potential. It could save your life, take care of you when you are old, and most of all, you'll be able to parent a child. That last one is the best of all. And unless you name yourself or smoke and drink "Ciggarettes and Alcohol" your kid won't be "a cancer". And by the way, it's not "foetus", it's "fetus".

You're 14 and you're telling me about the joys of parenting?
Excuse me, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I have friends with children, and when I go to see them, they don't tell me about the joys of bringing up a child. They are tired, spend a lot of the day looking after their children and have no career. Friend of mine was going to go to Uni, but then she became pregnant. Now she spends all her time looking after her child whilst the baby's father works on a ski field, earning not a lot above minimum wage. Like Cerri said, having a baby means you can't go to school, university etc.
Also my taste in music has nothing to do with abortion. Cigarettes and alcohol is a great song.

Now, lets assume a child has a physical or mental disability. Is that a means in which an abortion is alright? Absolutely not. Why should we kill life because it is not as capable as us? Killing life that is "inferior". Isnt that what sick dictator's like Hitler thought?

What about babies born addicted to drugs. Babies with horrible injuries that live their lives in constant and unbearable pain? They are being saved from that torture. It's not killing, and it's not discrimination based upon physical or mental inferiority. It's being humane.

I just don't really appericate men going against aborition when they have no idea what a woman goes through to have a child. As I said before, men can easily run away and not support the child at all

Lets not forget the pain of childbirth, it is one of the 3 most painful things in the world. More painful than standing on a landmine, or being shot in the kneecap.
If you wanted to take a very religious view you could say it's punishment, but that is a stupid arguement.
Childbirth is such a painful thing that the Nazis used it to identify enemy spies. The pain is so great that the women giving birth swears in her own language.

Being anti-abortion is a way for men, and for people who hold certain political views to exert power over women. They're telling them what they can and cannot do with their own body. It's cowardly and unfair.

 

[RioDragon]

Being anti-abortion is a way for men, and for people who hold certain political views to exert power over women. They're telling them what they can and cannot do with their own body. It's cowardly and unfair.

Oh, yeah... Because allowing more people to be born when it's their own fault they got pregnant is slavery... I getcha... So, I suppose if you cut off your own leg, you'd expect to collect disability and not be questioned about why it's a clean cut?

I just think people should think before they have sex. If they just follow whatever urges they have, and that's alright with you, then I guess that means when someone has the urge to run around and kill people, that'd be peachy-keen with you too. Yes, I have had sexual urges. By your logic, that means I HAD to have sex right then and there. Guess what? I didn't, because I thought about how that would effect the other person.

Love is a stronger need than sex. I'd rather stick with love than feel like I have to screw something every five minutes. If my partner's okay with it, and I feel like we can handle all possible outcomes, THEN sex will be open to me, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Bun]

Let's face it, abstinence is not, nor will it ever be, an option for someone who doesn't want to get pregnant--it's simply not a reasonable thing to ask. Because human beings are sexual creatures, chances are we're gonna screw when we feel horny, and that's the bottom line. However, we are a bit smarter than your average animal, having created things like different types of birth control, etc, but that stuff doesn't always work.

Here's an interesting dilemma: Husband and wife already had kids, they've left the nest, husband has a vasectomy, hubbie and wife take the opportunity to spruce things up in the bedroom again since the kids are gone and amazingly enough, wifey gets pregnant. But how?! Well, those things (although rarely) don't always work either. Mum's already way too old to be caring for another child, dad the same, and they've already made the decision (ala vasectomy) to not have anymore children.

What I'm trying to say is IT'S NOT ALWAYS A MATTER OF NOT THINKING BEFORE YOU HAVE SEX. Sometimes it really was just some freak accident. But asking/expecting someone to not have sex, before thinking of ever possible scenario that may result in a pregnancy under every possible circumstance, is just plain ignorance imo.

 

[IamKazam]

women say "its my body i can do what i want"....well....if they are so worried about their body, shouldnt they realize that it is most likely going to be more hazzardous to your health having the abortion than not having it?

http://www.mycpc.org/abortion_risks.html
http://media.www.dailygamecock.com/...us.Health.Risks.To.Mothers-836175-page2.shtml

So ya....pregnancies may be a hard thing to endure. And ya, i dont know what it is like, but i know many people who do. ANd as stated before, the pain of childbirth is one of the most painful things in life, but that pain is only for a period of time. The pain they will feel post-abortion is for a lifetime, and the pain of childbirth pales in comparison to that lifelong pain.

 

[Bun]

So ya....pregnancies may be a hard thing to endure. And ya, i dont know what it is like, but i know many people who do. ANd as stated before, the pain of childbirth is one of the most painful things in life, but that pain is only for a period of time. The pain they will feel post-abortion is for a lifetime, and the pain of childbirth pales in comparison to that lifelong pain.

It's alright to be against abortion--you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but outright saying THIS is how you're gonna feel if you get something like this done is completely ignorant. When you become a woman, get pregnant and have an abortion, you would obviously be more entitled to say something like that, if you would feel any pain at all. Not every woman who gets an abortion will regret it for the rest of their lives. I'm sure there are a good number of people who will and do, of course, but I've met some who knew it was for the better.

 

[IamKazam]

It's alright to be against abortion--you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but outright saying THIS is how you're gonna feel if you get something like this done is completely ignorant. When you become a woman, get pregnant and have an abortion, you would obviously be more entitled to say something like that, if you would feel any pain at all. Not every woman who gets an abortion will regret it for the rest of their lives. I'm sure there are a good number of people who will and do, of course, but I've met some who knew it was for the better.

I didnt mean to say that it is GOING to happen to you, i meant to say that there is a fairly good chance it could. I was also just trying to say that there are many dangerous health risks if one was to get an abortion. Risks that a lot of people are not aware of.

 

[Bun]

I didnt mean to say that it is GOING to happen to you, i meant to say that there is a fairly good chance it could. I was also just trying to say that there are many dangerous health risks if one was to get an abortion. Risks that a lot of people are not aware of.

Then you should've said so.

And it's true there are many risks, but hey, it's the choice that they make. Obviously any [surgical] procedure is going to be dangerous, and chances are if you're going to get it done legally and by an accredited doctor, he's going to make sure you're aware of those risks. Then again, if you are not seeking professional help, like ANY OTHER medical procedure done without the supervision of an individual who knows what s/he's doing, those risks are still going to be there.

Education of abortion isn't as bad as it used to be, and people are learning more and more about it and still taking their chances. To me, that clearly says that even if people are becoming more educated, they're still not letting that get in their way.

 

[Donald Trump]

Oh, yeah... Because allowing more people to be born when it's their own fault they got pregnant is slavery... I getcha... So, I suppose if you cut off your own leg, you'd expect to collect disability and not be questioned about why it's a clean cut?

Inoerite. It is so the fault of a women when she gets raped and becomes pregnant. She should have been in the house cleaning amirite?
Also it's so the fault of the people having sex when a condom breaks, vasectomey reverses itself, or the women still gets pregnant when she is on the pill.
Because it's so easy to not get pregnant.

But hey, we all seem to be on different sides here, I can sort of see what you are saying, I just beleive that people hide behind the "it isn't human" label to make the act of abortion seem forgivable and acceptable at the best of times.

Whereas anti-abortion people like to think of themselves as 'pro-life' and that abortion is baby killing. Now before all of you go OMZG IT R BABY KILLING, you cannot complain about the use of the word foetus. And it is technically and actually a foetus.
Regardless of the fact that the foetus could become a baby. It is not. Just like a caterpillar is not a butterfly.

I just think people should think before they have sex. If they just follow whatever urges they have, and that's alright with you, then I guess that means when someone has the urge to run around and kill people, that'd be peachy-keen with you too. Yes, I have had sexual urges. By your logic, that means I HAD to have sex right then and there. Guess what? I didn't, because I thought about how that would effect the other person.

Yes that is peachy-keen with me.

Damn!!! You caught me out.
Seriously, so you bother to read my posts, or just do you just see words with over three syllables, and think 'nah fuck it'.
That's the only way someone could come up the conclusion you have. I said abstinence is stupid, because it is unrealistic, and to an extent unrealistic. I did not say people should fuck like rabbits.
Believe it or not, I do consider other people's feelings before having sex, such as, "that would wake her up".
Damn you've tricked me into admitting I'm a rapist.
Because obviously that's all you expect me to think about.

 

[Nami]

I do not have standard views on right or wrong. I would like to share some of my thoughts.

I know of a woman who has seven kids. Yet she is around my age. She continues to get pregnant. She continues to have kids, even though she doesn't really want children. She had become pregnant after a night out (the method in which she typically got pregnant). She was going to have the child and give it away to our friend "T". She continued with her partying ways. She wound up miscarrying the baby due to excessive drinking, smoking, fighting, and partying.

Although she truly loves to party, she has never had an abortion. She draws welfare on her children and uses the money to fund her party habits. She will probably continue raising revenue for herself by producing more children.

Some children are given up for foster care. However, the foster care system (in America, I don't know about other countries) tends to be flawed. Since there is such a high demand for foster parents, the standards for licensure for foster parents tend to be lax. I know of some who are only required to watch a video and maintain a clean house. Children get separated from their siblings, move from home from home, and are lucky to find "love". Many sustain abuse while in the system. Some actually die. These cases are typically not dealt with efficiently. In fact, they are covered up to avoid scandal.

Open adoption, on the other hand, is a game of chance that I have insufficient time to discuss in this post.

I was fortunate. I lived in a home that required me to live in a loft with little to no interaction with people. I was made to eat my own vomit once. I was subjected to verbal abuse. I was tied up and locked in a garage with my fingers tied together. I only had enough mobility to put together a 1000 piece puzzle in a designated amount of time. I was disciplined afterward because my sweat had caused the tape to come off of my fingers. However, I was never physically marked or bruised. I was only removed to avoid scandal, since there was no evidence of my abuse.

Some kids are raised by the mother who mistakenly bore them. They live without ever being placed in the system and live battered and abused until they are forced to become adults and escape... if they find an escape. (I will not be providing names for the people I know.)

Some kids are born as a product of rape. Although some of these kids are met with their basic needs such as food, clothing, and shelter, they tend to bear some resemblance to the rapist that made the pregnancy possible. The mother tries to be noble and to adhere to her beliefs, but she makes her hatred for the child painfully apparent.

With all that being said, I don't think this is a "Yes" or "No" issue. Some people, who are clearly irresponsible, continue to have kids with careless abandon. Some people (and children) become pregnant in dire circumstances. Some people who are unprepared for children adhere to the wishes of others and wind up providing a life of hell for their children. I believe that in the above mentioned cases, an abortion should be allowed. (Especially in the first example. She should have a hysterectomy.)

But who would determine who is permitted to have an abortion and who isn't? Whose standard of justice would be used to determine the irresponsibility of the parent and whether that parent should simply give the child up for adoption? Who can say that the mother is of sound mind and judgement? Who really knows what's going on in each case?

I had always been "pro-life". But over time I have an adjusted view on the value of human life. Human life is precious, true, but is a life leading to a slow and painful demise worth it? I now feel that sometimes, abortion should be permitted. I simply don't know on what grounds.

It would certainly be better than giving birth to the child, then dumping the child off into a dumpster.

 

[Icarus]

So what if I lied? Listen, jerk, if you get "duhhh, that growth, that cancer" and wait, say, 20 or 30 years, you could have a scientist who made a cure-all, or a great author, with plenty of moolah to share with you. And what happens when you're 80 years old, but your dumbass wife (I know no one would want to marry you, but just listen) listened to you and aborted her unborn baby every single time? No one would be there to support you except her, not even Mommy and Daddy, because Mommy and Daddy changed their names and flew away to Russia and died there to escape from a brat like you. You'd have to be in a nursing home, and you wouldn't have any kids to visit you. And what happens when you run out of money to pay for your stay in the home? Out ya go.

Now, if your wife listened to you and did NOT abort, you'd have a kid (or, better yet, a few kids) who could support you, they would get you meds, get a doctor to check up on you, and things to help you out (provided of course you didn't make them smoke Ciggarettes and drink Alcohol). And when you get really old, they'd find a good nursing home for you and they'd visit you.

Damn you've tricked me into admitting I'm a rapist.
Because obviously that's all you expect me to think about.

You are a rapist, and you are on a forum like this? What the hell would make you do that? And I don't care if you had a bad day or whatever shit you told the judge. Under NO circumstances should you do something like that. Just think about how many enemies you made, doing that. What would've happened if your victim had a brother, who could bench-press 300 pounds? (You would've looked like raw hamburger, that's what.) Think about that the next time you want to rape somebody, you sicko.

 

[Scarlet]

Mooglesrules, do not name call other members. Also Placebo was being sarcastic about the rapist thing... Other than that quit the personal attacks. Debate all you want but no personal attacks.

Next time I see you or someone else make a personal attack then I will infraction you.

 

[Shu]

I'll be dead and forthright honest with ya on this subject...

First, I don't believe any guy has the right to respond to this thread, so that's why I've been so hesitant to respond to it. I don't have the right, but I'm going to go ahead and express my opinions about it. Take them for what they are worth.

Being someone who's been desensitized over the years from seeing a cold, grey, lifeless baby at a funeral (old friend who's baby died of Leukemia), to other crappy things surrounding death, I have very distorted views about the subject.

First thing a girl has to consider is the way in which she conceived the baby. If she was raped, or she conceived it through accident, or actually wanted it but someone is telling her to get rid of it (to avoid shame).

Let me start off by saying a girl has a god given right to choose what she wants to do with her body to be honest. If she wants to take birth control, if she wants the guy to use a condom, if she wants to use some other ways of pregnacy preventions, it's her choice to the very end. Her parents are not going to prevent her from making her own choices, it's inevitable.

So point 1.. rape. If a guy has encroached her, and tainted her body, why should his seed have to be inbedded in her? I mean seriously, why give birth to a child, who could have been a child of a murderer/rapist/psychological disorders to the male. Ladies are not only good for "one thing" giving birth, they should have their own god given right to choose their direction. I honestly do not know what it would be like with all the female estrogen running through you, that you would have to take the maternal dive and take on a living organism. I mean it's like admitting defeat to me... for one... some guy already took your pride, and probably subjected you to mental instability. So why go through with a kid your whole life, who you know will never have the benefit of a good father?

Point 2... Accident. In my opinion.. I get really pissed when I hear teenagers or even beyond (my age, let's say) not using birth control or any other form of pregnancy prevention. Accidents do happen though, some odd occurences can occur in which a girl gets pregnant, so what to do then? I say it's still her choice. People might say this is killing an innocent one, and I say.. well look at it this way.. aside from religion aside from politically incorrectness, let's talk about Money. Are you aware how much money it takes to feed another person besides yourself? I'm not saying that she couldn't give the baby up to child services (adoption) but your life could go from perfectly normal, to down hill in a matter of months. Babies are expensive, very very very, expensive. NO, i do not have one, but yes most people I know are married, and have kids. If you are already working, and are making ... let's say .. 10-15 dollars an hour, and you find out the news that you and your 2 week boyfriend conceived a baby by accident... well what then? I say... the boyfriend will freak out. He might call it quits, he might be glad (depending his age), he might demand an abortion. But who's right is it? the girl's.

Which leads into point 3... If a person is telling you to get rid of it for shame purposes, or because they want to be with you, but not if you have the baby.. well.. tell them to die in a fire. It's your choice. It's your choice.. It's your choice. No explanations needed on this point.

Good luck.. and take care. And for those of you that are mothers, my apologies.. and for those of you who are young mothers... well all I gotta say is.. if there is a god... God bless you, and keep on taken care of yourself.

 

[Nami]

And Nami, I understand what you are saying, there are sad circumstances that some babies are born into... But I still think they deserve a shot at life. There is a chance that they will make the best of life, that they will still enjoy life. These sad circumstances do happen in life, I've met people with naf family pasts, history of abuse etc, but I beleive that they can still have a chance at leading a happy life, or a happy'ish life if they strive for it / if luck comes to them.

I don't beleive we can realy allow ourselves to kill the foetus in fear that it may lead an unhappy life. It isn't for us to decide, and sadly the only person you could ask would be the baby-foetus itself... which isn't happening. But seriously, who is to know what life the baby will lead? I was born into a loving caring environment... But I'm not particualry a happy person myself right now. In fact I'm as down as anything when I'm on my own, tearing myself apart from the inside. Have few freinds, have no job, I'm at uni, but feel an outcast there.. have no girlfreind etc, and haven't since first school. Yep. A class A loser... Why am I like this? I realy do not know, but to get from being born into a happy loving family to this can realy show that the environment you are born into does not always suggest you are sorted for life. The course of life is a mystery to us all... No-one knows what is ahead. To deny a child the chance to experience life and make their own in the world is wrong in my opinion.

I personally don't feel that such an optimistic attitude should thrive in a society in which its members do not help each other. I personally don't understand why it's "humane" to subject the lives of women and children to a living hell... but that's just me. I suppose we can help by allowing mothers to relive their rapes and to keep paying women to have children they don't want for the sake of money.

No one has to live the hell except the ones involved. Gambling with chance is something most do for leisure. Gambling with lives shouldn't be any different, I suppose.

 

[Donald Trump]

While scientifically it is a foetus, it is, or will become a human being. You cannot deny that, and you haven't denied that... So killing (or if it is easier to accept, call it destroying or terminating) this foetus will lead to this developing human being not being born, right? So yes, in my opinion it is murder of a possible human being, denying it a chance to live. Also we keep hearing reports over the years about how we are discovering that the foetus has more life processes going on than we were ever aware of (but have no source to provide, was year back or so).

Quite right, I'm not denying that said foetus will become a baby. However condoms, the pill, and a vasectomy all prevent a life from being created, so they are equally as bad as abortion?

First, I don't believe any guy has the right to respond to this thread, so that's why I've been so hesitant to respond to it. I don't have the right, but I'm going to go ahead and express my opinions about it. Take them for what they are worth

I agree, it's not our decision.
However if I did get a chick pregnant, I would tell her what I wanted. Not to force her to do what I said, but because deciding to have an abortion or not to, is a big decision. Actually, no I wouldn't tell her what I wanted to happen. I'd agree with her, as ultimately it is her decision.

Just because I'm pro-choice doesn't mean I think that all foetuses should be aborted.

 

[RioDragon]

Quite right, I'm not denying that said foetus will become a baby. However condoms, the pill, and a vasectomy all prevent a life from being created, so they are equally as bad as abortion?

No, I wouldn't quite say that, as, as you said, they can prevent pregnancy from even happening. You should just be ready to bite the bullet in cases where those methods don't work so well.

When I was speaking of abstinence, what I said was meant for the unmarried. As pregnancy would most likely screw up their lives in some way. (Even than, you have to make sure you can really trust who you marry, with the way some men/women are.)

I agree, it's not our decision.
However if I did get a chick pregnant, I would tell her what I wanted. Not to force her to do what I said, but because deciding to have an abortion or not to, is a big decision. Actually, no I wouldn't tell her what I wanted to happen. I'd agree with her, as ultimately it is her decision.

Just because I'm pro-choice doesn't mean I think that all foetuses should be aborted.

*nods* Yeah, that's understandable. I'm still more of a pro-lifer myself though, but it does come down to the woman in the grand scheme. Though I still think it'd be a huge, honest mistake if she said she wanted a baby before she got pregnant and suddenly decided afterwards she didn't want it just because of unavoidable pain, which is sort of a no-brainer.

As I've said before... I'm more of a romantic type of guy. About the only reason I'd have a relationship in the first place would be the prospect of marrying and raising a family with her. So, I've course I'd be defensive against abortion. Because, from my viewpoint, I can't understand why someone would support it. Even after an abortion happens, the mother herself may experience complications all her life.

I don't like seeing people in pain under any circumstances... But typically, the pain of giving birth to a child doesn't last all of one's life.

As you've said before, I'm no doctor, and I'm only 18. But those articles above sorta covered that.

 

[Icarus]

Next time please do not even JOKE about being a rapist. My little brother was somewhat abused by my neighbor's kid. They shoved a hose into his tailbone and I have even more of an attitude towards rapists now.
And Placebo, while the fetus isn't as "human" as you or me, if you wait until it's ready to come out, then it would be considered "semi-killing" I guess. And what happens when it IS out? It would be killing.
I am not against ALL abortions, but if a family cannot handle another mouth to feed or if the baby dies in the womb, only then should an abortion be performed.
And if a baby comes unexpected as a result of careless sex, the woman should have the baby. It was her fault she did it, so she should bear the responsibility of a baby instead of taking the easy way out.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

If I could shift the topic for one moment...

What do you all think about Partial birth abortions. Surely you cant deny thats not baby killing(yes im against partial birth abortions).

- Kuja