[30/11] FFXIII-2 Enhanced Battle System Trailer

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I don't understand. What's so "enhanced" about it? The combat looks just like the previous game but with the addition of random quick-time events. My idea of an enhancement is to completely remove Auto-Battle and make combat more involving for the player. Then again, what was I expecting anyway?
 
Fleur said:
My idea of an enhancement is to completely remove Auto-Battle and make combat more involving for the player.
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This really.

There was nothing new in that trailer besides the cinematic actions. The combat is the exact same thing as the first game. When Square Enix said they were going to completely revamp the battle system, there was clearly a lie somewhere. I love some of the changes, like how everyone has to die(Serah and Noel) for a game over, and not just the party leader, but that is about it in terms of "new" things.
 
Nice to see that, exactly like FFXIII, XIII-2 is going to involve the player as little as possible. Time for more "mash X to win and occasionally change Paradigm when you're against a boss" gameplay, then...and I use the term 'gameplay' VERY liberally, because gameplay implies that you'll actually be playing the game, which you won't be if you're just watching the characters do everything by themselves again.

How positively thrilling. I can barely contain my excitement!
 
Now hold on there will be tons of things to do Caius like collecting pokemon (you can even dress them up) chocobo racing, gamble in the casino, find treasure with your helpful moogle etc.

This story better be epicly good for those tht are going to buy it....sigh...
 
Oh yes, of course! How careless of me to forget the "new elements" in FFXIII-2 that have been ripped straight out of half a dozen other, far more successful Western and Japanese franchises, without any adjustments whatsoever that would mean they'd actually fit into the game! :lew:

The entire battle system needed to be scrapped, not "enhanced" to make it "better". You can sprinkle a shit with chocolate, but that doesn't stop it tasting of shit.
 
I take it you hated FFXII's battle system as well then Caius? That one by far involved the least amount of interaction from the player. Yet, it was highly addicting.

From the trailer, it doesnt look much different. You dont have a pause between paradigm shifts, but in FFXIII you always didnt have to wait either, sometimes it just went to the new paradigm.

But it isnt just mashing X the whole time. Strategy definitely went into the battle system.
 
Nocturne said:
I take it you hated FFXII's battle system as well then Caius? That one by far involved the least amount of interaction from the player. Yet, it was highly addicting.
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I did indeed. I'll admit that the attack animations and the presentation were very impressive - all of those flips etc were very nice to watch, but I would have liked to have actually done something.

Nocturne said:
You dont have a pause between paradigm shifts
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This is one element that I think they actually fixed, now that you mention it. The most aggravating thing about FFXIII was that little wait between paradigms, which could royally screw you over if you were attacked whilst you were waiting, and that is a very cheap way to die. They've made a good move getting rid of that, but I still think the entire system is horribly flawed, so it's something of a hollow victory. Still, a hollow victory is a victory, I suppose.

Nocturne said:
But it isnt just mashing X the whole time. Strategy definitely went into the battle system.
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For boss battles, I agree with you. But everything else? Not in the slightest. The game was horribly erratic in the level of strategy and interaction; for most enemies you could just sit back and watch, but for others you had to do everything as the AI suddenly became incapable, where before it had been an unchallenged titan in a world of weaklings. I don't mind a challenge, but I like consistency in that challenge; I don't expect to go back to my doze after a boss battle. It gives a game a very anticlimactic feel to it, and it makes it horribly obvious that you're just playing it to fight the next boss. I know that is how most games ultimately are, but most others let you have some fun along the way.
 
Here's where I have to give some credit to the Paradigm Shift system (wow, it's weird to use this term outside of international political science!) - which at least kept me on my toes. That was where the strategy came from, and the only place it came from, though it was largely a case of setting up a decent combination of paradigms outside of battle when in actual battles, it's a case of nimble fingers with good timing. It vaguely reminded me of FFXII's Gambit programming, only far more streamlined, and nowhere near as extensive or as strategic.

It's Auto-Battle and the stagger system that really oughtn't to be left, and I am interested to see who liked the stagger system. The former is just taking streamlining to the next level. Once my entertainment with the speed of the battles diminished earlier on, it became clear that Auto-Battle removes a lot of the strategy, particularly when it can choose the optimal elemental attacks or buff moves. You may argue that earlier FF games would largely require you to hammer "Attack" which is hardly any different, but at least then it was a case of you choosing your special abilities and moves for yourself rather than relying on the game to optimise it for you.

And what can I say for stagger? It was an excuse to inflate an enemy's HP to ridiculous levels and hence drag out a battle as long as you can while you toil to get that stagger bar up in order to do any real damage. I tended to spend more time impatiently looking at that stagger bar than anything else than I did focusing on what my opponent is going to do next. It's honestly not my idea of exciting boss battles.

Do you know what saddens me as well - something I remembered from the FFVII remake discussion thing with Kitase? He said that with HD consoles to develop for, the sheer size and scope of FFVII for instance would mean it may take decades to recreate Gaia in HD. It just tells me that Final Fantasy games may become smaller and smaller in scope in order to sustain the excellent graphical standards so far. And a more profitable and easier path from here on may be more direct sequels, with the foundations there and all. They have basically admitted that style has triumphed, while polishing blades of grass to perfection.
 
Ohri-Jin said:
Now hold on there will be tons of things to do Caius like collecting pokemon (you can even dress them up) chocobo racing, gamble in the casino, find treasure with your helpful moogle etc.

This story better be epicly good for those tht are going to buy it....sigh...
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Look man Dennis,i don't think the story will be good cuz its a sequel ,they didn't put much effort in the storyline i am sure!

And despite the fact tha they register a ffxiii-3 domain,they musted of have retain thereself to give a good story in the next one.

And those catching monster things ,i am not into it really,its kind of ....stupid....yeah stupid!




And sequel/prequel in Square-Enix garden have never been good!(crisis core,Dirge of Cerberus,FFX-2).

So fer me i am just waiting to have FFXIII-2 fer the side-quest and getting my platinum trophie thats it!F*ck the story really!!!



Sorry fer my bad english!
 
I did indeed. I'll admit that the attack animations and the presentation were very impressive - all of those flips etc were very nice to watch, but I would have liked to have actually done something.
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I pretty much agree with the other things you said but not this.

I dont understand what you mean by do something. You had the option to pick attacks like any other final fantasy game. In every other, besides FFXII (where you had direct control over your character in the battle), your person stood still as you watched them do what you picked for them to do. So really, it's no different than any other Final Fantasy game before it besides XII.

Do you know what saddens me as well - something I remembered from the FFVII remake discussion thing with Kitase? He said that with HD consoles to develop for, the sheer size and scope of FFVII for instance would mean it may take decades to recreate Gaia in HD. It just tells me that Final Fantasy games may become smaller and smaller in scope in order to sustain the excellent graphical standards so far. And a more profitable and easier path from here on may be more direct sequels, with the foundations there and all. They have basically admitted that style has triumphed, while polishing blades of grass to perfection.
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Thats why I call BS on them. It wouldnt take them that long unless they were messing around. The jump from SNES to the Playstation was huge, and even PS1 to PS2 was huge, yet it didnt effect the size of these games. It's because they dont know the hardware well enough and dont have the experience with HD yet.

That's why I dont want the next consoles to come yet because games will get smaller and smaller as developers up the graphical ante
 
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Nocturne said:
Thats why I call BS on them. It wouldnt take them that long unless they were messing around.
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I agree. I mean, one look at the other thread where Kitase said a full FFVII remake may take 10 times longer than FFXIII (there is a good chance I may be dead by then), and it's an instant bullshit alarm. Perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have heard from a Square Enix executive, and that is saying something. If western developers can manage to build HD RPGs with tremendous sizes and scopes in the time that FFXIII was made, it's worth asking: why is this? Why do a lot of big Japanese titles take so long to come out while their western counterparts are a lot more efficient?

It does however, lead me to raise another point. If they want to shorten development times of Final Fantasy games now, how exactly would this work then, considering HD development for them supposedly takes this long? Quite a few things don't add up with Square Enix, and they really must present themselves coherently as a company and demonstrate that they have a clear direction that isn't full of muddled messages and constant borrowings from western games, else they decline completely into irrelevance.

At the same time though, I would love to see what would happen if they decide to make a PSone FF-style game for a PSN release or something. This means no fancy graphics, and no voice acting. That would be my idea of an intriguing spinoff series. :lew:

Anyhoo, I'm drifting off the original topic here, but I've little else to say about FFXIII-2, except for the fact that despite my constant bitching about the previous game, I actually do want this game to succeed to some extent, but also to fail in another way. What do I mean by "fail in another way"? Well, I just don't like this possible idea of having a mini-series of Final Fantasy games, like a FFXIII, FFXIII-2 and a possible FFXIII-3. It leaves very little scope in the near future for new, original installments that aren't quick sequels and spinoffs.
 
Lol what a suicidal video that is. They are mostly showing what FFXIII already had instead of the new stuff that were confirmed in FFXIII-2:
-party leader death does not cause game over
-party leader change
-paradigm deck save/load
-monster controlling
-paradigm tune (somewhat like gambits)
-feral link
-customizable, uncapped crystarium

Edit:
I read somewhere that this video is the first of a series of gameplay trailers. So I hope they show more on the next few videos.
 
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I agree with Cid. They are just showing the same recycled stuff from the beginning instead of what they have changed which will just aggravate the fans. But the thing is, the fans will always complain about anything associated with XIII, even if they had scraped the battle system and made a fresh one, I'm sure people would shift their focus to the story in XIII-2 and how bad that would turn out. The dreaded XIII doesn't seem to affect Versus, but it looks great so I see why people don't bash that game, though I don't see the point in overrating it until we see more of it's battle system, story, characters, etc. because at this point the characters seem wooden, but that's justifiable because there's not enough info. on Versus yet.

I actually commend SE for keeping the ATB system (if that is the correct term) for XIII. Sure, it does feel like it plays itself and takes away some of the strategy, but the visuals and character movement in the battle does keep me entertained. Plus, the details in the characters movements show that they worked really hard in that aspect. And though it would have pleased fans if they did a completely new battle system, I think the fans would have either found a flaw to complain about or say that it doesn't compare to the older FFs which is one of my pet peeves about old-school FF fans. Also, Versus might have been delayed further if they actually had to take the time to create a new battle system for XIII-2. The actual strategy that went into the battle system was hardly there and as evidenced from that trailer it won't be in the sequel to the infamous XIII either, but if you despise the Auto-Battle, just don't use it like I do. Sure, it might not do much, but it sure beats having the battle done for you.
 
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