Usama Bin Laden DEAD!

[Harlequin]

Conducting a mock trial wouldn't have solved anything IMO. We've been tracking him for over a decade (when you include the 93 bombing), his fate was sealed.

What I find bizarre his how the operatives were supposedly able to run DNA tests and consult Islamic 'specialists' before dumping his body in the ocean with no stated photographic proof at all. Obviously it's not as simple as broadcasting photos of a man shot twice in the head to the nation, but it all seemed rushed for one of the most important deaths in recent memory.

Osama is almost certainly dead, for him to release a new tape now would be too horrendously embarrassing to the US, but the real question is whether he died in this operation or at an earlier date.

That's one for the conspiracy theorists though, I'm too tired for this shit.

 

[Terra Branford]

What's weird is that Obama said three times and as well as others, that they had killed Osama a week earlier and had been running the DNA tests and then later, Obama said that he was killed that day >.>

That confuses me :C

 

[The Witch]

I was on the Underground when it happened would you believe what an eventful day that was.

How come I have never been told this Thank God you were never hurt.

I don't feel anyone is inherently evil. I believe what he did was evil, but I feel evil comes from a misunderstanding rather than as part of someone's character. We're all God's children in the end

I celebrate the victory, but I lament the loss of life.

You bring up a good point, and I agree, just so you know. But, it's a point I'm going to have to disagree on morally. I know it's wrong. And you're right, he, no matter how evil, was one of God's children. It's between him and God.

But, I'm human, just like every other American right now--we are allowed to get swooped up in emotion, whether that be happiness or anger(both in which every American is feeling either together or separate right now)

I just can't mindlessly say people cheering over this are disgusting or shameful. They're emotional over this, even if it's wrong, I'm giving them a break. In a perfect world, yes, we wouldn't and shouldn't be cheering. We should morally realize how terrible death is... and if your a person of faith you should ask God to forgive your moment of lack of a better judgment.

But Americans were mad on September 11th and they've been carrying that anger around for 10 years. Families who never got closure has now received it. When you see spiderman kill off a villain, chances are, people aren't going to call Spider man disgusting or shameful. They'd say he did what he had to. We just had a team of Spidermen take down a villain, we should rejoice for that. (sad for us that "take down" meant shooting dead. but hey, we asked him to come quietly and he didn't what can we do? he was armed and dangerous. we couldn't let him go)

Which brings me to this, I don't think any American is really cheering over his death. As I said yesterday, I think the streets would be just as covered if he was brought back alive. I know for a fact I'd be cheering if that bastard was brought to America, tried, and then given the punishment he deserved(rotting for the rest of his life and living with the disgusting reality of his own hell).

When I say I'm happy over this, it's not cuz the monster died. It's cuz I know now he can never harm anyone again. Even if someone takes his place, we got the guy that killed our brothers, our sisters and mothers and fathers.. our friends. If he had been taken back alive we would still be cheering for USA in happiness. We, our military forces, brought the most wanted terrorist in the world down. That's something that is not only a victory but something to look proudly on. Even if we end up being the villain for it, we still prevented a man from ever harming anyone ever again.

I guess the Dark Knight was right. You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. We just became the villain in everyone's eyes--and it happened because we brought down a monster. :/

It might not have been right to take his life(as it always is)but the end result is that he can never do anything like 9-11 ever again... and that's the victory.

There's been a lot of talk about him getting justice etc etc, which is completely wrong. You cannot have justice without a trial, America skipped the trial and went straight to execution. You can call it many things, but justice it isn't.
Killing him solves a lot of legal problems, there's no way he could have had a fair trial etc etc.

I don't know what you've been hearing but our Navy SEALS got in the building and GAVE Osama the chance to come back quietly and peacefully, followed by Osama hiding behind his very own meat-shield of a wife and opening in fire, causing our SEALS to protect themselves and shoot back. I wish everyone would stop making it out to be like our SEALS shot him as he slept or something. Cuz, we didn't. Osama chose to to take the cowards way out instead of facing the consequences of his actions. And if our SEALS shooting him quickly prevented any death of a brave soldier, good.

 

[Merung]

I don't know what you've been hearing but our Navy SEALS got in the building and GAVE Osama the chance to come back quietly and peacefully, followed by Osama hiding behind his very own meat-shield of a wife and opening in fire, causing our SEALS to protect themselves and shoot back. I wish everyone would stop making it out to be like our SEALS shot him as he slept or something. Cuz, we didn't. Osama chose to to take the cowards way out instead of facing the consequences of his actions. And if our SEALS shooting him quickly prevented any death of a brave soldier, good.

Actually the plan was to kill Osama, not capture him. He was unarmed when he was shot.

 

[The Witch]

Actually the plan was to kill Osama, not capture him. He was unarmed when he was shot.

Actually, unless news changed in the last couple of hours. Osama opened fire against our SEALS and hid behind his wife. But if you have a source for that, provide it please. I kinda want to know as much about this as possible.

 

[Merung]

Actually, unless news changed in the last couple of hours. Osama opened fire against our SEALS and hid behind his wife. But if you have a source for that, provide it please. I kinda want to know as much about this as possible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-kill_n_856211.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54162.html

However, during a background, off-camera briefing for television reporters later Monday, a senior White House official said bin Laden was not armed when he was killed, apparently by the U.S. raid team.
Another White House official familiar with the TV briefing confirmed the change to POLITICO, adding, “I’m not aware of him having a weapon.”

Also, it's not confirmed whether he used his wife as a human shield or not. There are statements coming from everywhere that contradict each other.

 

[Harlequin]

Cali I think most of the cheers in DC and NY are those of nationalist gloating. It's not about closure and it's not about the fight on terror. For many of them it's an opportunity to show how much better they are than their foes. History would suggest that humility is always the best course of action, boastfulness always brings reprisals. It's a case of the US being sore winners.

Don't get me wrong though I'm glad he's been removed. You know I'm the first to speak up against militant Islamists.

I don't know what you've been hearing but our Navy SEALS got in the building and GAVE Osama the chance to come back quietly and peacefully, followed by Osama hiding behind his very own meat-shield of a wife and opening in fire, causing our SEALS to protect themselves and shoot back. I wish everyone would stop making it out to be like our SEALS shot him as he slept or something. Cuz, we didn't. Osama chose to to take the cowards way out instead of facing the consequences of his actions. And if our SEALS shooting him quickly prevented any death of a brave soldier, good.

Again I'm not sure where to draw the line between reality and propaganda. The SEALS are an special forces team, if this operation was conducted by regular troops shooting Osama would have been alot more plausible but you're talking about a team that would have planned this operation extensively for at least a couple of days. Did they have an interpreter with them when they gave him their ultimatum? Was he armed when they confronted him? According to recent reports he was first shot in the head then in the chest to make sure he was dead. I'm not quite sure if capture was ever on the agenda.

 

[The Witch]

@Mistmoor,
the huffington post is as much of a news source as I am. And buddy, I ain't a news source.

Cali I think most of the cheers in DC and NY are those of nationalist gloating.

That's not what everyone is saying here. It all revolves around closure and justification for those who died by Osama's cowardice hands.

It's not about closure and it's not about the fight on terror. For many of them it's an opportunity to show how much better they are than their foes. History would suggest that humility is always the best course of action, boastfulness always brings reprisals. It's a case of the US being sore winners.

I don't think so, Tom. It's not about gloat or being a sore winner. We're showing thanks to our fine military as they brought down a psycho. We're not just cheering cuz "oh, yeah! America is number 1!" it's "yeah! one less bad guy in power!"

Don't get me wrong though I'm glad he's been removed. You know I'm the first to speak up against militant Islamists.

Yes I do.

Again I'm not sure where to draw the line between reality and propaganda. The SEALS are an special forces team, if this operation was conducted by regular troops shooting Osama would have been alot more plausible but you're talking about a team that would have planned this operation extensively for at least a couple of days. Did they have an interpreter with them when they gave him their ultimatum? Was he armed when they confronted him? According to recent reports he was first shot in the head then in the chest to make sure he was dead. I'm not quite sure if capture was ever on the agenda.

Well, as we're all learning today. It went from Obama's staff telling us that "he was armed, opened fire so we shot back" to being "oh, yeah, he was unarmed and we still shot him."

Which brings me to this. Before the information about Osama being unarmed we all believed he WAS armed and dangerous... which made the whole situation completely different. Turns out either Obama lied to us then or they're lying now. Either way, conspiracy theories are forming as we speak... and I'm now one of the people that believe something strange is going on.


There is, undoubtedly, something un-American about shooting an unarmed man as he hid behind his wife. THAT, if it's true, is what's bothering me. We're not that.

So, now, although I'm still glad he can't harm people... I heavily regret the choices Obama took in giving the orders to KILL instead of capture. It makes it seem as if the government is hiding something.

The information I've learned today is the sickening part. Why... why would our president EVER give the orders to shoot an unarmed man? I wish they would have told us that information before people believed something else.


And, yes, I know I'm kinda changing my views here a bit, but when you learn more information like this you go back and reanalyze your own personal opinion on the matter to see if it still makes sense... and from what I'm learning... this mission wasn't completely innocent solely because we shot an unarmed criminal.

 

[Harlequin]

That's not what everyone is saying here. It all revolves around closure and justification for those who died by Osama's cowardice hands.

I don't think so, Tom. It's not about gloat or being a sore winner. We're showing thanks to our fine military as they brought down a psycho. We're not just cheering cuz "oh, yeah! America is number 1!" it's "yeah! one less bad guy in power!"

Ok. I guess it would be unfair to determine exactly why they're cheering.

And, yes, I know I'm kinda changing my views here a bit, but when you learn more information like this you go back and reanalyze your own personal opinion on the matter to see if it still makes sense... and from what I'm learning... this mission wasn't completely innocent solely because we shot an unarmed criminal.

Yeah same. I think his crimes were worthy of the death penalty, but I don't believe the intention was ever to capture him. Whether or not the execution is right or wrong is a question of opinion really, but I think the main issue now is Pakistan's involvement in all this.

 

[Saints&Storms]

Well it would seem that yes he hasn't actually carried out many of the acts that have been attributed to his leadership, but if that was simply the case he wouldn't be the most wanted man in the world. The fact of the matter is he was the most influential muslim radical in the world and I fear that his influence will grow even more so in death seeing as many will see this as an opportunity to take the mantle and 'achieve' what he has.

It's difficult to explain but I hope you see where I'm coming from.

I do see where you are coming from. It must have slipped my mind that radicals glorify radicals even more in death [whether or not they actually did anything] and for some reason Osama is a prime example of that fact.

I fully support the killing, however whether or not it will be beneficial remains to be seen.

Ironically, his killing is likely to inspire the same zeal and fervour in militant Islamists as it has in those who were chanting USA outside the White House. Not to mention that as Jesse had suggested al-Qaeda had fallen off the radar these past few years, this news is likely to inspire morbid fascination and admiration in ambitious radicals the world over.

But we'll just have to see. A backlash I fear is inevitable.

But it could have the opposite effect and discourage some as well, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.

I just hope this doesn't effect the innocent people over in the middle east as well; since al-Qaeda doesn't stop at the US alone.

But we'll just have to see, I guess; but sadly, To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction.

 

[Eight]

So, now, although I'm still glad he can't harm people... I heavily regret the choices Obama took in giving the orders to KILL instead of capture. It makes it seem as if the government is hiding something.

Pardon my bluntness, but I reckon it's a matter of they were sick of pissballing about with the fucker. Either way, it was gonna end in his death, or him spending the rest of his days in some high security joint where no doubt if the system didn't make his life a misery, the guards would have. Over, done with, innit?

As for the whole, he ain't dead scenario. I'm leaning towards he's dead. If word got out than Osama was in fact alive, it would jeopardise Obama's reputation, good luck staying in the White House then. Though I haven't seen any of these photos yet, (Not really found myself in the mood to see a corpse since the news was announced) I wouldn't be suprised if they were faked. However, I think it's most likely part of some competition amongst news organisations to be the first to release photos of Bin Laden's corpse. Juicy scandal and all.

Honestly though, I've heard so many different stories, Osama was armed, he wasn't. He did use his wife as a sheild, he didn't. There were DNA tests, there weren't. I'm taking everything I hear from the media with a pinch of salt right now.

 

[The Witch]

Ok. I guess it would be unfair to determine exactly why they're cheering.

Exactly. C;

Yeah same. I think his crimes were worthy of the death penalty, but I don't believe the intention was ever to capture him. Whether or not the execution is right or wrong is a question of opinion really, but I think the main issue now is Pakistan's involvement in all this.

Yeah, Pakistan's involvement is very interesting. They're gonna have a lot of explaining to do about how they "didn't" know Osama was living in a large city in a mansion no less. That's very suspicious. Either the Pakistan government is inept or they were covering something up.

I think I remember Pakistan officials saying they didn't like the mission in there to do this, too. Which makes me more suspicious than before.

But we'll just have to see, I guess; but sadly, To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction.

Sadly, that's true.

 

[Harlequin]

Semi relevant to the topic at hand, but 5 men were arrested yesterday under the terrorist act outside the nuclear plant in Sellafield, England. Apparently they were taking photos of the plant and acting suspiciously.

 

[The Witch]

Semi relevant to the topic at hand, but 5 men were arrested yesterday under the terrorist act outside the nuclear plant in Sellafield, England. Apparently they were taking photos of the plant and acting suspiciously.

For real? I haven't heard of this. That's good they stopped them if they are capable of something.

 

[Harlequin]

Meh I dount it was anything seroius

But yeah I think Pakistan are trying to pull a fast one and the west know it. Apparently part of the reason why the US didn't inform them in advance of the operation was because they thought Pakistan might inform the targets. UK's Prime Minister has pledged to 'press' Pakistan for answers, I think publically we have to tread on eggshells when implicating Pakistan in all this, but I doubt this'll mark the end of operations in the Middle East.

 

[Rapture]

Here's an update, for anyone who cares:

Osama bin Laden was not armed when he was shot and killed by U.S. Navy SEALs during a daring raid in his compound in Pakistan, the White House said today.

"We were prepared to capture him if that was possible," White House spokesman Jim Carney said. But even though bin Laden was not carrying a weapon, Carney said he had "resisted" and several people in the compound were armed and firing at the American special operators.

"Resistance does not require a firearm," Carney said.

When the SEALs entered the room in which bin Laden was hiding, his wife charged them and was shot in the leg, Carney said. Bin Laden was then shot in the chest and head.

"U.S. personnel on the ground handled themselves with the utmost professionalism," he said. "[Bin Laden] was killed in an operation because of the resistance they met."

The decision to kill, rather than capture, came from commanders on the ground, Carney said.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-unarmed-killed-white-house/story?id=13520152

So okay, he was shot not BECAUSE he was armed...but because there was armed resistance that accompanied him in the compound where they found him. His wife was not thrown into the works as a shield, she charged the SEALS and was therefore shot.

Really either way, whats done is done. He's dead. I can't blame the guys (SEALS)...they were likely given the order to kill after they had realized there was going to be resistance... and how many more of our people need to die before this guy finally gives up??? If there was chaos in the compound when he was found like there obviously was its going to be hard to be able to focus enough to aim for a flesh wound as opposed to perhaps mortally wounding him in order to preserve the innocent SEALS that found him. He wasn't going to surrender and never had intentions of doing so...ever. Thats why he stayed hidden for so long.

My worst thought is what if this guy had been captured...and taken to trial here in the states. The trial would wane out...and taxpayer dollars would be spent most likely in the millions of dollars so we can hire a public defender to defend this man who killed 3,000 of ours on September 11...and BRAGGED ABOUT IT later on video tapes world wide. Justice was served... it was just done much quicker and saved our ailing economy/increasing national debt millions of dollars. ...and its not like he didn't choose it, he could've told his thugs to lay off when they came in, but he didn't.

 

[Harlequin]

The decision to kill, rather than capture, came from commanders on the ground, Carney said.

If the decision to kill was made by those who were in the firing line and those who pulled the trigger then fair enough, but it's planning is still questionable to me.

If they really wanted him alive surely they had the capacity to capture him.

its not like he didn't choose it, he could've told his thugs to lay off when they came in, but he didn't.

Well said. If he wanted to come peacefully he not only would have told his goons to stand down but he would've turned himself into the authorities long ago. In the end these are the rules of engagement he imposed on himself.

 

[Emyunoxious]

The brutal MURDER of Osama Bin Laden, shows how unjust AmeriKKKa really is.

Was Osama Bin Laden ever found guilty in a court of law? No? Then he is supposed to be presumed innocent. That's how the system is supposed to work. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.


@Emyunoxious
MOD EDIT: I cleared out the part that was a direct troll attempt. Please don't troll or flame. Thank you.

EMYU EDIT: I fixed it to be clearer about what I meant.

 

[Harlequin]

Give it a rest Emy. Osama was obviously a threat to global security and in the end you're using this news as just another excuse to express your obvious disdain for America and bigotry in general.

@Harlequin No need for name calling.

 

[Emyunoxious]

Give it a rest Emy. Osama was obviously a threat to global security and in the end you're using this news as just another excuse to express your obvious disdain for America and bigotry in general.

Osama might have been a global threat. We didn't give him a just trial, so we'll never know for sure, will we?

This was unjust, and the soldiers who murdered him should be put on trial.

@Emyunoxious Just worry about yourself. If you have a problem with another user, notify a staff member.