Question about difference between warriors and rogue classes?

[Ishida52134]

What exactly is the difference?
I mean, I know classical warriors are about a lot of strength and rogues are about a lot of speed.
But for example, Cloud is part of the warrior class and yet he is really fast.
So what exactly distinguishes between the warrior and the rogue class?

thank you.

 

[Dionysos]

I don't believe that the rogue job class ever made its way into Final Fantasy, but I think you have a correct understanding of them.

Rogues (I think) are built for speedy, stealthy, damaging attacks. I think they'd be known for traps and thievery too.

Cloud wouldn't be a rogue, for he isn't really one for stealthy, surprise attacks, or for cunning tactics. Cloud is much more of a run in sword-swinging kind of guy. He'd confront his enemies head-on.

 

[Ishida52134]

I don't believe that the rogue job class ever made its way into Final Fantasy, but I think you have a correct understanding of them.

Rogues (I think) are built for speedy, stealthy, damaging attacks. I think they'd be known for traps and thievery too.

Cloud wouldn't be a rogue, for he isn't really one for stealthy, surprise attacks, or for cunning tactics. Cloud is much more of a run in sword-swinging kind of guy. He'd confront his enemies head-on.

so a rogue doesn't confront an enemy at all? The thing that's confusing me is that like combat rogues in WoW go in head on and just use their agility and speed to fight head-on. So how is that different from Cloud?
Plus, duelists from dragon age, are under the rogue category and do not really use sneak attacks.

Reason I'm using these mmorpg examples, is because I'm talking about rogue classes as a whole. Are they more of a warrior-rogue hybrid?

 

[Dionysos]

I think that it depends on where they are used, and what the game creators want to do with them. Their exact roles can differ, I think. I don't have much MMORPG experience, I was mainly drawing from what I know from D&D when answering what a rogue could involve.

I think that stealth (of the rapid variety) could be an element of a rogue, but not necessarily a defining element. Quick, speedy, shock tactics could also alternatively be a rogue, such as what you described. A rogue could be used to deal fast, heavy damage. I'd see these as more of a hybrid of rogues and warriors, but I'm not entirely sure.

I think the true defining element of the job class is the speed. I guess Cloud could be taken to have this speed, but his sword is of the more heavy variety. Most would call Cloud a warrior as his attacks are heavy, despite the fact that he is fluid with them. Within the universe of Final Fantasy, and of the job classes that the FF series has, Cloud would probably be placed as a warrior / knight.

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Yuffie is Rogue.

Zidane is Rogue/Thief.

Tidus is fast but is not a Rogue, because he fights,as Argor says front on facing his enemy.

Cloud, Squall & Tidus are Warriors.

Speed id just the primary stat associated with being a Rogue, but the true defining qualities are they way you fight ie; stealth, from behind, with debilitating status ailments
like blind or silence.

Are you applying Dragon Age classes to FF?
because they are not compatible, FF does not define roles as such any more like they did inn the old days of job classes, there is so much grey area when it comes to defining FF Characters that its almost not worth you time.

There are no traditional roles like archer, but some characters are described as "thief"
"warrior" "mage", newer terms like "tank" apply to FF, but there are no defining traits that set classes apart.

Look for the thread called "If I give Barrett the steal materia, does that make me racist?"
for further reading

 

[Oliver Queen]

Warriors rely more on being tanks and absorbing the most damage and the like. Using FFX for an example, if I move Auron into Rikku's grid, he will learn her skills (steal, mug, etc), but will still be a warrior because he is like a tank.

Rogues rely less on being tanks and more on other factors, such as stealing and not getting hit. They do not need to worry about defense so much as warriors do because they have a habit of not being hit.

 

[Ishida52134]

Yuffie is Rogue.

Zidane is Rogue/Thief.

Tidus is fast but is not a Rogue, because he fights,as Argor says front on facing his enemy.

Cloud, Squall & Tidus are Warriors.

Speed id just the primary stat associated with being a Rogue, but the true defining qualities are they way you fight ie; stealth, from behind, with debilitating status ailments
like blind or silence.

Are you applying Dragon Age classes to FF?
because they are not compatible, FF does not define roles as such any more like they did inn the old days of job classes, there is so much grey area when it comes to defining FF Characters that its almost not worth you time.

There are no traditional roles like archer, but some characters are described as "thief"
"warrior" "mage", newer terms like "tank" apply to FF, but there are no defining traits that set classes apart.

Look for the thread called "If I give Barrett the steal materia, does that make me racist?"
for further reading

I'm not really trying to apply any thing to this, instead, I'm basically trying to come up with a general definition that all rogues of all mmorpgs share. Basically, I want to be able to figure out whether games like Devil May Cry 4 or Dante's Inferno emphasize on rogues or warriors more. And in order to do this, I reasoned that I should include all definitions from all mmorpgs out there of rogues.

Well I guess I can see a difference. Cloud's speed is basically used for rushing since he blocks most of his attacks while Zidane would dodge most of the attacks right? But warriors can also evade, since Tidus is shown as one of the fastest characters in Dissidia.

So yeah, I'm pretty confused >.<

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Its all in how they act and the methods they use to achieve victory

Look at it like this:

Warriors, Achieving victory through strength and facing there enemy.
Primarily they favor the strength statistic, and have higher than average
defence and Hit Points.

Rogues, stealthily they dispatch there foes through precision attacks and are not above using under handed motheds, Speed is there primary attribute being able to dodge and block at close range.

FF is the worst when it comes to defining Classes, it may have had job classes in the early days but as the sereis has grown and progressed characters have become what Players want them to be.

Cloud is not all that fast actually, sure in AC he was seen zooming around the place leaping building and shit, but its a movie, in FFVII the game Tifa RedXIII Yuffie Vincent are all faster than Cloud.

If I remeber correctly cloud ahas a base Speed stat of 75-85 @ lvl 99, out oof the 255 maximum, so not really that fast after all. he can be augmented to be the fastest but so can Barrett.

 

[Ishida52134]

Its all in how they act and the methods they use to achieve victory

Look at it like this:

Warriors, Achieving victory through strength and facing there enemy.
Primarily they favor the strength statistic, and have higher than average
defence and Hit Points.

Rogues, stealthily they dispatch there foes through precision attacks and are not above using under handed motheds, Speed is there primary attribute being able to dodge and block at close range.

FF is the worst when it comes to defining Classes, it may have had job classes in the early days but as the sereis has grown and progressed characters have become what Players want them to be.

Cloud is not all that fast actually, sure in AC he was seen zooming around the place leaping building and shit, but its a movie, in FFVII the game Tifa RedXIII Yuffie Vincent are all faster than Cloud.

If I remeber correctly cloud ahas a base Speed stat of 75-85 @ lvl 99, out oof the 255 maximum, so not really that fast after all. he can be augmented to be the fastest but so can Barrett.

thanks a lot. But how come they depict Mr. Kratos from god of war 3 as this warrior but he is also mad agile???
Btw, and one last question. So basically I'll play any video game as long as it does not emphasize on warrior type gameplay.
Which method would work better?
1) If rogue gameplay + mage gameplay > warrior gameplay, then take it.
2) If warrior gameplay is not emphasized beyond 50% in a game, then take it.

Basically method 1 is about comparisons, while method 2 is about just determining whether or not warrior emphasis is present in a game.
Which method would be more accurate for my goal?
(My only problem with method 1 is that there are probably way more classes than those since those are only combat classes, we're in effect rejecting classes like blacksmiths, miners, fishers, w/e those types of classes in ff XIV)
what do you think?
thanks

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Well I have never had the pleasure of utilizing Kratos.

But I can only surmise that the game was developed with an leaning towards action
and that the developers were/are aware of the fact that the bigger a guy gets the slower
he tends to be?

So rather than design a slow ass game they made him fast to too keep the action fluid and interesting from what I understand you dont need much skill to play those kinds of games

Well I have a penchant for swords and armor and shields and slicing and cutting stuff, so I cant really say which is better, but if you have a preference stealthy and speed based games then I do my research through reviews and youtube footage to make sure its what you want.

Nothing worse than busting your money on games that play like cement trucks in the ocean..........um not very well.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

I'd have to say it'd be pretty hard to be defined as a rogue when your weapon is bigger than you are. Cloud definitely has to be a warrior.


Anyways, I think it depends on what game and what strategy you're aiming for. For example, rogues become pretty handy in FF12, but warriors are better in Dungeons and Dragons.
Personally, I've always felt more secure with a warrior, but rogues can help in sticky situations, I guess.

 

[Dionysos]

God of War’s Kratos is different, for he had become a god, and was a

Spoiler

son of Zeus

. He’s the strongest man there is, and therefore he is able to have superhuman, or even supergodly strength (for he surpasses all gods and titans) yet still very speedy when he needs to be. He is not a rogue, however, for his tactics don’t quite fit it. Kratos isn’t very tactical, but he is a highly skilled warrior with good initiative. He knows exactly where to go for on whatever creature or man he is attacking, but it would usually take him a long time to get there as he’d much prefer to cut the creature to pieces to cause maximum pain and bloodshed.

There is nothing stealthy or cunning about Kratos. He yells and screams all of his plans, and he then proceeds to carry them out. He’s vengeful and angry, not much can stop him, and he never sneaks up on an opponent.

 

[Ishida52134]

Well I have never had the pleasure of utilizing Kratos.

But I can only surmise that the game was developed with an leaning towards action
and that the developers were/are aware of the fact that the bigger a guy gets the slower
he tends to be?

So rather than design a slow ass game they made him fast to too keep the action fluid and interesting from what I understand you dont need much skill to play those kinds of games

Well I have a penchant for swords and armor and shields and slicing and cutting stuff, so I cant really say which is better, but if you have a preference stealthy and speed based games then I do my research through reviews and youtube footage to make sure its what you want.

Nothing worse than busting your money on games that play like cement trucks in the ocean..........um not very well.

wait so which method do you think is better o.o
1 or 2?
The descriptions are below it around the post above you btw.
thanks

 

[Ishida52134]

so how are all warriors similar? and all rogues similar?

 

[yoboom21]

Well, they really aren't. Unfortunately, it's based on the game, and not what you want it to be. As Cardiac Kid said, Auron is a Warrior, Riku is a Rogue. That's their story-line given type. Even if I take Riku through Auron's grid and erase all of her own stuff, she's a rogue by default due to the story-line. In a game like WOW, you choose your class. Warriors can be tanks, but Rogues can only be damage. They can't support pull all the attacks towards them and slaughtering tons of foes while a warrior can. Just like a priest can easily fend of one or two maybe three if you're lucky, but can't tank. Pally can be a healer or a tank or damage. I think its based on what they are supposed to be and not what they are, because what they are is typically restricted... even if you customize like crazy... in most games you can only be so good at something you're not supposed to do. And also, FF7 was an exception to that because of Sources. Sure Cloud CAN have 255 spd, but he's not supposed to.

 

[Ishida52134]

Well, they really aren't. Unfortunately, it's based on the game, and not what you want it to be. As Cardiac Kid said, Auron is a Warrior, Riku is a Rogue. That's their story-line given type. Even if I take Riku through Auron's grid and erase all of her own stuff, she's a rogue by default due to the story-line. In a game like WOW, you choose your class. Warriors can be tanks, but Rogues can only be damage. They can't support pull all the attacks towards them and slaughtering tons of foes while a warrior can. Just like a priest can easily fend of one or two maybe three if you're lucky, but can't tank. Pally can be a healer or a tank or damage. I think its based on what they are supposed to be and not what they are, because what they are is typically restricted... even if you customize like crazy... in most games you can only be so good at something you're not supposed to do. And also, FF7 was an exception to that because of Sources. Sure Cloud CAN have 255 spd, but he's not supposed to.

well why would tidus be warrior? Isn't he mad agile and fast? Shouldn't he be more of a rogue?

 

[yoboom21]

Because his character is more of a warrior. Sure he's fast, but he's also "in-your face" brute force, as opposed to tactical. He wasn't really meant to be sneaky... Not that I mentioned Tidus. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of X, so idk who is faster Riku or Tidus, I do know Wakka has more accuracy than either of them... but Tidus is more of a "Lotsa small fast hits" than a "heavy damage" which is typical warrior, but he's not rogue, because rogue is "small hit that kills them due to critical, or precision, or status effect (like death)" I guess Tidus would either be a hybrid of the two, or simply a different class. But as FF doesn't really do "classes" it's difficult to identify him as a class. But I understand what you mean. I believe he's more warrior based though because he relies on damage, rather than skill. Not that I mind that. Lotsa small fast attacks is really good IMO, but personally I'm a Priest, Shaman and Warlock in WoW, so I prefer magic and DoT effects.

 

[Ishida52134]

Because his character is more of a warrior. Sure he's fast, but he's also "in-your face" brute force, as opposed to tactical. He wasn't really meant to be sneaky... Not that I mentioned Tidus. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of X, so idk who is faster Riku or Tidus, I do know Wakka has more accuracy than either of them... but Tidus is more of a "Lotsa small fast hits" than a "heavy damage" which is typical warrior, but he's not rogue, because rogue is "small hit that kills them due to critical, or precision, or status effect (like death)" I guess Tidus would either be a hybrid of the two, or simply a different class. But as FF doesn't really do "classes" it's difficult to identify him as a class. But I understand what you mean. I believe he's more warrior based though because he relies on damage, rather than skill. Not that I mind that. Lotsa small fast attacks is really good IMO, but personally I'm a Priest, Shaman and Warlock in WoW, so I prefer magic and DoT effects.

tell me about ninja gaiden sigma 2. The title says ninja, and according to you, it would be a warrior.

 

[Ishida52134]

Because his character is more of a warrior. Sure he's fast, but he's also "in-your face" brute force, as opposed to tactical. He wasn't really meant to be sneaky... Not that I mentioned Tidus. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of X, so idk who is faster Riku or Tidus, I do know Wakka has more accuracy than either of them... but Tidus is more of a "Lotsa small fast hits" than a "heavy damage" which is typical warrior, but he's not rogue, because rogue is "small hit that kills them due to critical, or precision, or status effect (like death)" I guess Tidus would either be a hybrid of the two, or simply a different class. But as FF doesn't really do "classes" it's difficult to identify him as a class. But I understand what you mean. I believe he's more warrior based though because he relies on damage, rather than skill. Not that I mind that. Lotsa small fast attacks is really good IMO, but personally I'm a Priest, Shaman and Warlock in WoW, so I prefer magic and DoT effects.

so why is zidane a thief/rogue? He does not do crit damage anymore than tidus.

 

[Ishida52134]

so basically to differentiate between an agile fighter and a rogue, agile warriors always use strong attacks right?

And rogues use precision and always use light fast attacks?