Israel vs Gaza

[Noctis]

Yesterday I was watching the news, and nearly all day it was about the war so I who's fault is the war and which side are you on?

 

[Dionysos]

The whole state of Israel and Gaza is one big political/national/territorial cock up which is unlikely to be resolved easily.

These recent attacks are just a continuation or intensification of conflict that has lasted since Israels formation, I'm assuming. I haven't been watching the news for the past few days so I don't know the specifics of the recent attacks so can't comment specifically about the recent affairs.

 

[One-winged Demon]

I think that Israel is fighting Palestine in Gaza.

Mod Edit: More effort, as one liners are considered spam and will be deleted in the future.

 

[Donald Trump]

Well like Argor said, the origins of the Arab-Israeli conflict date back to the formation of Israel in 1948.

The most recent conflict is because Hamas decided not to renew the ceasefire that they had in place with Israel.
The war is not anyone's fault, but a result of circumstances.

 

[Jalis]

Well like Argor said, the origins of the Arab-Israeli conflict date back to the formation of Israel in 1948.

The most recent conflict is because Hamas decided not to renew the ceasefire that they had in place with Israel.
The war is not anyone's fault, but a result of circumstances.

Bez is right, the fighting between Israel and the Arabic nations is a continuation of fighting since biblical times. No-one is right and no-one is wrong when it comes to war, but seriously... who would take on Israel! They could whip anyone's ass!

 

[littleslyferret]

I'm siding with Israel on this one. Everyone in their area pretty much hates them, but they remain a strong nation (with the help of others), and considering the hostilities towards them, pretty peaceful.

Hamas are the ones being fools, poking a hornet's nest. I can't say I like Israel storming Gaza, but they certainly can't just sit back and watch their people die to rockets because Gaza can't control Hamas.

 

[Donald Trump]

I'm siding with Israel on this one. Everyone in their area pretty much hates them, but they remain a strong nation (with the help of others), and considering the hostilities towards them, pretty peaceful.

Only because they trade land for peace following the six day war in 1967. Israel occupies Arab land itself, but they also try to control Palestine, which is not even a country.

Hamas are the ones being fools, poking a hornet's nest. I can't say I like Israel storming Gaza, but they certainly can't just sit back and watch their people die to rockets because Gaza can't control Hamas.

Because they want their land back and they want the Arabs in Israel to be fairly treated. So far Hamas rockets have killed 4 people and Israel has killed over 400 mostly civilians.

 

[littleslyferret]

Because they want their land back and they want the Arabs in Israel to be fairly treated. So far Hamas rockets have killed 4 people and Israel has killed over 400 mostly civilians.

The Arabs want their land back, I understand. Their dislike is to be expected. Their thinking that the situation makes it okay to threaten Israel and get away with it however, is quite wrong. Israel's reaction is to be expected, and calling them the bad guys for it is incorrect; they're reacting like a government should to protect it's people.

 

[Donald Trump]

The Arabs want their land back, I understand. Their dislike is to be expected. Their thinking that the situation makes it okay to threaten Israel and get away with it however, is quite wrong. Israel's reaction is to be expected, and calling them the bad guys for it is incorrect; they're reacting like a government should to protect it's people.

Yes, but only if you look at if from Israel's point of view.
They've killed over 500 people whilst only four Israelis have died. That's totally disproportionate. Also is bombing and invading Gaza the best way to protect Israeli civilians?
I doubt it, it only leads to more hatred for Israel.
If it were any other country in the world, they would have been forced to stop, and criticised by the UN. So far the US has vetoed any action by the UN against Israel something like 35 times.

 

[littleslyferret]

Yes, but only if you look at if from Israel's point of view.
They've killed over 500 people whilst only four Israelis have died. That's totally disproportionate. Also is bombing and invading Gaza the best way to protect Israeli civilians?
I doubt it, it only leads to more hatred for Israel.
If it were any other country in the world, they would have been forced to stop, and criticised by the UN. So far the US has vetoed any action by the UN against Israel something like 35 times.

I've mentioned before I can't say invading Gaza was the best thing to do, but given how the threat is immediate, how can one really expect them to wait? They probably should've planned for this, but in the current circumstances action is what's needed.

If they were any other country, yes. But they're not; they're Israel, and the UN made a hasty mistake so won't do much. As it is, the country's forty years old now, and though I quite understand that's still time to revolt, Hamas needs to realize the world would eventually encroach on their piece of land anyhow. The population's growing and hatred's spewing, do they expect that piece of land to stay clear of it if they win? It's folly.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

I'm with the Israeli's on this. The Arabs in "Palestine" are just that, Arabs. They are ethnically identical to the Arabs in the nations surrounding them. This whole "crisis" was caused by the neighboring Arab states not allowing the Arabs in Israel to enter their lands, so that they could have yet another reason to justify their hatred of the Jews.

Even when the Israeli's cede land for peace, the militant Arabs still fire rockets into civilian areas of Israel. These anti Semites aren't going to stop their course of action until Israel has been wiped off the face of the map, they have made this perfectly clear for a long time now. The Israeli's are defending themselves by eliminating the source of the threat, and are fully justified in doing so.

 

[Donald Trump]

I'm with the Israeli's on this. The Arabs in "Palestine" are just that, Arabs. They are ethnically identical to the Arabs in the nations surrounding them. This whole "crisis" was caused by the neighboring Arab states not allowing the Arabs in Israel to enter their lands, so that they could have yet another reason to justify their hatred of the Jews.
.

Arabs don't believe in Pan-Arabism, so why should you?
Should all us white folk go live in the same place? No. Pretty pointless arguement really, it's also avoiding the issue that caused the problem. That is that Palestine and Israel is Arab land.
There's the arguement that it was Jewish land before they were kicked out, now for arguement's sake I'm assuming you are American. If so, then you'd have to leave America and give it back to the Mexicans and the Native Americans. There are even more reasons, however I can't be bothered explaining them.

Even when the Israeli's cede land for peace, the militant Arabs still fire rockets into civilian areas of Israel. These anti Semites aren't going to stop their course of action until Israel has been wiped off the face of the map, they have made this perfectly clear for a long time now. The Israeli's are defending themselves by eliminating the source of the threat, and are fully justified in doing so.

They gave the land for peace with Egypt, Syria ect, the land for peace strategy has nothing to do with the Palestinian 'problem'. I'd also argue that they are more nationalists than anti-semites. Israel normally responds to any criticism of it's policies as anti-semitism to play on our holocaust guilt. They don't hate Jews because they're Jewish, they hate them because they've got their land.
Israel isn't defending itself, it's slaughtering civilians, the last death toll I saw was, 11 Israelis dead, 760 Palestinians dead. There is no justification in that.

 

[1EnjoiPanda7]

Can anyone tell me what triggered this violence? I don't mean to sound ignorant but i don't have a clue as to what set in motion the attacks on Israel. Did hamas in Gaza attack first? Or was it something else that set this off

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

Arabs don't believe in Pan-Arabism, so why should you?
Should all us white folk go live in the same place? No. Pretty pointless arguement really, it's also avoiding the issue that caused the problem. That is that Palestine and Israel is Arab land.
There's the arguement that it was Jewish land before they were kicked out, now for arguement's sake I'm assuming you are American. If so, then you'd have to leave America and give it back to the Mexicans and the Native Americans. There are even more reasons, however I can't be bothered explaining them.

If they don't believe in pan Arabism they have no reason to support the Arabs in Gaza. That's Israeli land, if they don't want their people living their they can open their own nations. That land has belonged to the Jews since the times of the Roman Empire, and was given to them once more in the 40's by the world. The Arabs are the ones keeping this an issue, not Israel.

They gave the land for peace with Egypt, Syria ect, the land for peace strategy has nothing to do with the Palestinian 'problem'. I'd also argue that they are more nationalists than anti-semites. Israel normally responds to any criticism of it's policies as anti-semitism to play on our holocaust guilt. They don't hate Jews because they're Jewish, they hate them because they've got their land.

Nationalism my ass. Is that why the arab states are always united in their hatred of Israel? I forgot that the three Arab Israeli wars were fought by people proud of their nation, not a coalition of Arab nations fighting for Arabs. These nations have continually declared their hatred for Israel, they are anti semitic Islamic extremists.

Israel isn't defending itself, it's slaughtering civilians, the last death toll I saw was, 11 Israelis dead, 760 Palestinians dead. There is no justification in that.

One sidedness is no indication of how justifiable something is. More Germans died in WW II than Americans, but that doesn't mean America was wrong in attacking Hitler's forces. Besides, Israel attacks only enemy targets, its the Palestinians who blow up buses full of old omen and children. Israel's targets are military ones, Hamas purposefully targets civilians.

Can anyone tell me what triggered this violence? I don't mean to sound ignorant but i don't have a clue as to what set in motion the attacks on Israel. Did hamas in Gaza attack first? Or was it something else that set this off

Hamas kept firing rockets into Israel from Gaza so Israel needed to go in and stop these attacks.

 

[Donald Trump]

If they don't believe in pan Arabism they have no reason to support the Arabs in Gaza. That's Israeli land, if they don't want their people living their they can open their own nations. That land has belonged to the Jews since the times of the Roman Empire, and was given to them once more in the 40's by the world. The Arabs are the ones keeping this an issue, not Israel.

If so gtfo out of America and give it back to the Native Americans and the Mexicans.
Pan-Arabism is the belief in having one Arabic state, Arabs don't want it, so you forcing it on them is stupid. It's like the Ayatollah saying all white people should live in one country, infact there's a bit of history to forcing people to live in one country, it resulted in genocide, Bosnia, Kosova etc. In short it's a very fucking stupid idea. For many reasons, firstly it's ignorant. the justification is that all arabs look the same, ergo they are the same therefore they should all live in one country. I think you'll agree, the logic behind that is flawless.
Secondly, look at Iraq, the Arabs there are getting along well with each other aren't they? Based on that, it would be awesome to make them all live together.
Thirdly the Middle East is far more complicated than you think. Lets take Lebanon for example, in a country that has an Arabic country it had for a long time a Christian Maronite government, do you think they wanted an influx of Arabs, which would keep decrease their chances of retaining power?
To summarise, making Arabic states take in all the refugees (and just so you are clear about this, since 1948 the creation of Israel led to so many refugees that those displaced are still the highest single case of refugees iin the world) is a very stupid idea.

Nationalism my ass. Is that why the arab states are always united in their hatred of Israel? I forgot that the three Arab Israeli wars were fought by people proud of their nation, not a coalition of Arab nations fighting for Arabs. These nations have continually declared their hatred for Israel, they are anti semitic Islamic extremists.

Since you don't understand Middle Eastern politics, I'm not going to waste my time giving you a full answer.
Here's how it goes, Palestinians kicked out of Palestine, holy grounds (Jerusalem etc) to be shared. Israel takes control of said holy grounds, and still are in control. Makes Arabs very annoyed that places sacred to their religion are under occupation by a country that has intention of giving them full access and sharing the lands. So we have first A-I war. Israel wins, and routinely massacres Arabs in Palestine and forces Arabs in Israel out of their homes.
So, it's quite normal for them to hate Israel.
They didn't have a meeting and decide that because Israelis were circumsized, that tthey would hate them.

One sidedness is no indication of how justifiable something is. More Germans died in WW II than Americans, but that doesn't mean America was wrong in attacking Hitler's forces. Besides, Israel attacks only enemy targets, its the Palestinians who blow up buses full of old omen and children. Israel's targets are military ones, Hamas purposefully targets civilians.

We're not talking about WW2, holocaust guilt is a different thing. Also to Israel only targeting military targets. Hamas wasn't around before the 80s yet Israel still attacked Arabs in Palestine. Riddle me this, what led to the intafada in 1987? Was it when Israel bombed a military target? No, it was when they murdered a Palestinian by running him over in a military vehicle. Even i you don't know the history of the conflict watch the news, Israeli bombs hit a school and killed 30-40 kids, both kill civilians, but Hamas are forced into it by Israeli actions.

I can understand an arguement for Israel put forward by Israelis for Israelis. But any non biased observation surely leads to the conclusion that Israel are killing so many Palestinians just for a few Israelis.
If you are Israeli, 11 Jews vs 760 Palestinians is good, from anyone else's perspective, it's murder.

Can anyone tell me what triggered this violence? I don't mean to sound ignorant but i don't have a clue as to what set in motion the attacks on Israel. Did hamas in Gaza attack first? Or was it something else that set this off

Israel had an illegal blockade on the Gaza strip for the last 3 months, preventing supplies, eg food for children and medicine for the sick, so that they can contain Hamas. Hamas angered by the continued mistreatment of Palestinians in Israel and in Palestine ended a ceasefire with Israel and fired rockets into Israel, so that Israel will leave the Palestinians in peace.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

If so gtfo out of America and give it back to the Native Americans and the Mexicans.
Pan-Arabism is the belief in having one Arabic state, Arabs don't want it, so you forcing it on them is stupid. It's like the Ayatollah saying all white people should live in one country, infact there's a bit of history to forcing people to live in one country, it resulted in genocide, Bosnia, Kosova etc. In short it's a very fucking stupid idea. For many reasons, firstly it's ignorant. the justification is that all arabs look the same, ergo they are the same therefore they should all live in one country. I think you'll agree, the logic behind that is flawless.
Secondly, look at Iraq, the Arabs there are getting along well with each other aren't they? Based on that, it would be awesome to make them all live together.
Thirdly the Middle East is far more complicated than you think. Lets take Lebanon for example, in a country that has an Arabic country it had for a long time a Christian Maronite government, do you think they wanted an influx of Arabs, which would keep decrease their chances of retaining power?
To summarise, making Arabic states take in all the refugees (and just so you are clear about this, since 1948 the creation of Israel led to so many refugees that those displaced are still the highest single case of refugees iin the world) is a very stupid idea.

This has nothing to do with America. We colonized America and made it our land, just as the world gave Israel to the Jews in '48. America is for Americans and Israel is for Israeli's, end of story.

The fact is that the Arabs in these Israeli territories belong in Egypt, Jordan or Syria, letting them in solves the problem immediately. I never said they sould all go to the same country, don't put words in my mouth. The Arabs keep the conflict going when the solution in in their hands, end of story.

We're not talking about WW2, holocaust guilt is a different thing. Also

to Israel only targeting military targets. Hamas wasn't around before the 80s yet Israel still attacked Arabs in Palestine. Riddle me this, what led to the intafada in 1987? Was it when Israel bombed a military target? No, it was when they murdered a Palestinian by running him over in a military vehicle. Even i you don't know the history of the conflict watch the news, Israeli bombs hit a school and killed 30-40 kids, both kill civilians, but Hamas are forced into it by Israeli actions.

I can understand an arguement for Israel put forward by Israelis for Israelis. But any non biased observation surely leads to the conclusion that Israel are killing so many Palestinians just for a few Israelis.
If you are Israeli, 11 Jews vs 760 Palestinians is good, from anyone else's perspective, it's murder.

Wrong on all counts. Let me put this in a very simple fashion for you:

Palestinians purposefully target bus loads of children.

The Israeli's have had bombs fall where they weren't intended to go, but these are called accidents. When the Israeli's strap grenades to their young sons to turn them into suicide bombers, then you can compare, but until that time you have no argument here. The Palestinians are cold blooded murderers of children, women and the elderly, whereas Israel tries to keep these casualties to a minimum.

Once again, War isn't a socialist even t where it has to be fair and the causalities have to be equal. Israeli is a better armed force and so they have neutralized a lot more of their opponents, that is all. They are justified in every single thing they have done in their defense.

 

[Donald Trump]

This has nothing to do with America. We colonized America and made it our land, just as the world gave Israel to the Jews in '48. America is for Americans and Israel is for Israeli's, end of story.

lol manifest destiny much. We are white so this must be our land, god wants it. America massacred Native Americans and Mexicans.
The point is, if you are giving Judea back to the Jews, give America back to the Native Americans. Otherwise it's just racist. Lets give Arab land to white folk like us. Either do both, or neither.

The fact is that the Arabs in these Israeli territories belong in Egypt, Jordan or Syria, letting them in solves the problem immediately. I never said they sould all go to the same country, don't put words in my mouth. The Arabs keep the conflict going when the solution in in their hands, end of story.

Because they look the same to you? Why should they be kicked out of their homes for 1500+ years?
Justify to me, why Palestinians should live with Egyptians.

Wrong on all counts. Let me put this in a very simple fashion for you:

Palestinians purposefully target bus loads of children.

The Israeli's have had bombs fall where they weren't intended to go, but these are called accidents. When the Israeli's strap grenades to their young sons to turn them into suicide bombers, then you can compare, but until that time you have no argument here. The Palestinians are cold blooded murderers of children, women and the elderly, whereas Israel tries to keep these casualties to a minimum.

Read a book not written by a Jew, for a non biased account of history.
Israel has killed so many Palestinians that it's just not funny. However you call them accidents. They weren't accidents, they have plans to settle the West Bank.
Oh please I have no arguement here? All you do is repeat anti-Palestinian propaganda, you've shown you can't differentiate between Arabs and Palestinians. Your knowledge of this is egregious. Yes Hamas targets civilains, but so does the IDF.

Once again, War isn't a socialist even t where it has to be fair and the causalities have to be equal. Israeli is a better armed force and so they have neutralized a lot more of their opponents, that is all. They are justified in every single thing they have done in their defense. Today 11:11 PM

Well done, you've made me laugh. Of course they're better armed because their killing civilains.

Come back when you can provide evidence and reasoned arguement rather than label Hamas as evil nasty people that kill people.

 

[One-winged Demon]

This has nothing to do with America. We colonized America and made it our land, just as the world gave Israel to the Jews in '48. America is for Americans and Israel is for Israeli's, end of story.

Ahahahaha this is the funniest thing i have ever heard.You killed all the Indians and made America your land.If Palestinians kill all the Hebrews and capture Israel that will mean that they made Israel their land,right?And the world gave some land to the Jews because the Jews control the world.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Both have been fighting since kingdom come, their both at fault here, and both should reach some sort of compromise, like splitting up the land.

However I can quickly see the two fighting over "this side has more vegetation than that side", blah blah blah.

This seems like an insolvable conflict, both will continue to fight over the land as long as its there(no I'm not suggesting we do something to the land so its no longer existent).

Call me crazy, but its their conflict, I think they should solve it.

- Sephiroth

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

lol manifest destiny much. We are white so this must be our land, god wants it. America massacred Native Americans and Mexicans.
The point is, if you are giving Judea back to the Jews, give America back to the Native Americans. Otherwise it's just racist. Lets give Arab land to white folk like us. Either do both, or neither.

Wrong again, sorry sport. America was made our country just as Israel was made into their country. Besides, if the whites in America don't own America because they're from Europe, then the Natives don't own it either because they're from Siberia.

Because they look the same to you? Why should they be kicked out of their homes for 1500+ years?
Justify to me, why Palestinians should live with Egyptians.

No, because anyone with a high school knowledge of genetics can tell you they are ethnically identical. There are no Palestinians, there are Arabs living in areas of Israel. Arabs are Arabs, they're language, religion, culture and customs are identical.

And the Jews were in control of Israel until the late 1st century AD, the Arabs didn't try to make it theirs until much later, much less the 1500 year bullshit you pulled out of your ass. The Arabs have no claim to this land.

Read a book not written by a Jew, for a non biased account of history.
Israel has killed so many Palestinians that it's just not funny. However you call them accidents. They weren't accidents, they have plans to settle the West Bank.
Oh please I have no arguement here? All you do is repeat anti-Palestinian propaganda, you've shown you can't differentiate between Arabs and Palestinians. Your knowledge of this is egregious. Yes Hamas targets civilains, but so does the IDF.

Will you stop with the blatant lies please?

The IDF has never, ever targeted civilians. Unfortunately for you accidents aren't targeting. The Israeli's spend time and recources on dropping information to warn the civilians on where they plan to strike and what to do to be safe, another unfortunate fact for you.

Once again- Hamas blows up women and children on purpose. Israel trys to keep the civilians out of it. Stop letting the anti semitic propaganda out there get to you, that's what let Hitler rise to power.

Well done, you've made me laugh. Of course they're better armed because their killing civilains.

Come back when you can provide evidence and reasoned arguement rather than label Hamas as evil nasty people that kill people.

Good to see you're not even trying to pull something out of your ass here. I've already proven that Israel actively works to protect civilians, and shown that you're nothing more than a liar. I'll take this as your concession champ.

And the world gave some land to the Jews because the Jews control the world.

They don;t let you out of the compound often, do they. You and your Jew hating pals have fun whining about ZOG for me, ok?

and both should reach some sort of compromise, like splitting up the land.

Every time Israel agrees to split up the land the Arab states either declare war on her or Hamas fires rockets at her and has suicide bombers blow up bus loads of children . It doesn;t work because all the Arabs want is the destruction of Israel.