Stealing Gas.

[Contra Fates]

The Story:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/04/24/0424armsevered.html?imw=

The Issue:
I heard about this story when my brother went to a car parts store to fix something in his car. The guy at the register asked him if he had a locking gas cap, and suggested that my brother got one. The reason? That story there.

That crime took place about ten miles from my own home, in a suburban area. My county in general is comprised of rather wealthy business owners, polo players, and retirees. A crime like that was a real eye-opener to myself, and the residents here.

It was a preview of what could be in store for this country, with the continuous rise of gas prices, and no aid from the economy itself to balance it out. Right when I can, I'm going to buy a locking gas cap, to protect myself from people like that Ramirez, stealing gas out of my car, and then trying to hack my hand off for stopping him. Talk about biting the hand that feeds.

The Question:
What do you all think about this? Do you think that instances like this could become more commonplace as we get deeper and deeper into a recession? And, for those who live in countries where gas is around $8 a gallon, what is your take on this? Is the only solution improved public transportation, or investing in an a new electric car/motorcycle?

 

[Rockman X]

Oh great, we're going back to the 80's and gas siphoning Saw something on CNN the other day, a guy was projecting gas to reach $7 a gallon within a year.

The little door that covers the gas cap is locking, and can only be opened from inside my car...but I suppose there's always the chance of someone prying it open, or breaking into my car and opening it that way. I should probably look into a locking gas cap.

On a final note...a Mexican? Trying to steal and then kill a guy? What a surprise

 

[Contra Fates]

Oh great, we're going back to the 80's and gas siphoning Saw something on CNN the other day, a guy was projecting gas to reach $7 a gallon within a year.

The little door that covers the gas cap is locking, and can only be opened from inside my car...but I suppose there's always the chance of someone prying it open, or breaking into my car and opening it that way. I should probably look into a locking gas cap.

On a final note...a Mexican? Trying to steal and then kill a guy? What a surprise

Well, I'd rather not make this a racial issue. Though, Ramirez does represent the immigrant and oppressed persona of this society, I suppose.

I spoke to Cerridwen about this, and she said the same thing about her car. My car is a Chevy Malibu, and mine is just unscrewed from the outside, no locking mechanism at all.

A locking gas cap is only about $20, so, I'd say it's a pretty sound investment.

As for the $7, I've heard that a lot of economists are projecting that it'll be $10. But, sometimes I wonder if these economists are just being paid off by car companies, that are planning to release ultra gas-efficient cars, as a way of scaring people into purchasing these new vehicles.

My Calculations:
Where I live, gas prices raise $0.10 every week, so, right now it's at $3.80. I'll see what it'd be at by 2009:
$7.10

I calculated about .10 x 33 weeks=$3.30
$3.30 + $3.80=
$7.10

This would be what gas would cost, if this continues, by January 2009. Guess there is some truth to it after all. Pretty disgusting, huh?

 

[Scarlet]

What do you all think about this?

This is too much... I'm glad my car has a tight lock on the gas. It can only be opened by a button inside my car. People are desperately needing gas to go to work and what not. It was a jackass thing to do to steal someone else gas, but it worries me.

Do you think that instances like this could become more commonplace as we get deeper and deeper into a recession?

Possibly, the U.S dollar keeps getting weaker and weaker. Everything is going up in price and gas is very expensive. The average American income is about 48-50k. People have children to feed and other expenses to take care of such as electrify, water etc. Those stimulus checks aren't going to do very much. Not to mention were in a mortgage crisis, people are loosing their homes. The gas prices are effecting truck drivers greatly as well and charging more for shipping. Everything is going down, our Airlines are absolute shit at the moment. We are getting into a deeper recession. Bah! We need another F.D.R or Reagan. :/

Is the only solution improved public transportation, or investing in an a new electric car/motorcycle?

The problem with hybrid cars is that their value equal the same as buying a regular car and having a normal gas mileage. For example, a normal Honda Civic starting cost is about 15k. A hybrid Honda Civic starts at 22k. That is a 7,000 dollar difference. You're not saving any money unless you drive a lot. Also hybrid batteries cost a lot. Not everyone can afford a hybrid as well.

Let's say you fill up your regular Honda Civic 2 times a month. That costs to 120 a month, times 12 months is 1440 dollars. 1440 x 5 years is 7,200 dollars. Not too bad but in 5 years there will be a better car. Also to replace a hybrid battery costs about 3,000 dollars and that is replacing the batter every 80,000-100,000 miles.

Another problem with hybrids and these new fuel efficient cars is the lack of power. Yeah, sure, you might not care if you car accelerates fast but I do. My car accelerates pretty fast and it has helped me get out of tight situations were I would have almost crashed. Also it's safer to speed up fast while merging to keep up with the traffic.

Smart Cars are a great idea but the problem with them is there is not enough room to put stuff, especially when your doing grocery shopping. They're very small and there are still many SUVs on the road. Hell, mid-size and large sedans are pretty big as well compared to a Smart car.

 

[Donald Trump]

One of the main reasons for the rise in the price of petrol, or as you americans affectionately call it, 'gas', is the fact that OPEC refuse to supply enough oil to reduce prices. Therefore there is a shortage of supply which leads to price increases. Plus the fact that Oil companies love their increased profits.

Also Cerri, FDR didn't fix the recession, the war did, the New Deal didn't work, it did improve the situation a bit, but not significantly, it was a good try.
A conventional war would be very good for the economy though

I think things like that will become more frequent, the poor get evn poorer, which gives them even more incentives to commit crimes to supplement their incomes.

 

[Rockman X]

I think things like that will become more frequent, the poor get evn poorer, which gives them even more incentives to commit crimes to supplement their incomes.

Funny you should mention that. I was watching The Daily Show yesterday, and John Stewart had Bill Moyers (White House press secretary in the 60's) as a guest on his show, and Bill was saying that the divide between the upper and lower class is growing larger. Vid is here, if anyone cares to watch.

Now on the note of locking gas caps...I spent a good half hour browsing message boards and looking at customer reviews on the things...and apparently most (if not all) can be opened WITHOUT the key, all you have to do is turn harder. On one board I came across, someone was saying how locking gas cap doors will do more good, which I have.

Plus, if someone wanted the gas badly enough they would just puncture the gas tank and drain it that way, the locking gas cap is really just a deterrent to the less-desperate.

And just for the hell of it, have another clip from yesterday's The Daily Show about high gas prices. "SHE'S A WITCH! BURN HER...using biofuels" I just love John Stewart

 

[BalambFish]

I believe the rise in oil prices has been due to over speculation. The OPEC has released reports and statements saying that it is producing enough oil and that there is certainly enough oil in the market. I Think, people are just panicking too much... and besides, the time of less oil usage must come too. With all the global warming and stuff, we have to start reducing our emissions...

 

[Scarlet]

Also Cerri, FDR didn't fix the recession, the war did, the New Deal didn't work, it did improve the situation a bit, but not significantly, it was a good try.
A conventional war would be very good for the economy though

He did help somewhat. FDR did about 40% of the work and WWII did 60% of the work to get the US out of the depression. FDR created the Triple AAA and the FDIC. The Triple AAA was to get rid of surplus or pay people such as farmers to stop growing stuff. In effect, this caused demand in supply so owners would have to hire people again. The FDIC was the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. It was the bank was guaranteed by the government. If a bank fails the government buys it and sells it to another bank company.

Also he created the NRA, the National Recovery Administration, helped people get their jobs back. The SEC as well, Security Exchange commission which controlled buying and selling. He fixed Wilson's fuck up by creating the Cash and Carry policy.

 

[Erythritol]

I think I'll just jump in here too. Now, admittedly, economics is reeeeaaaally not my subject at all. So take anything I say with a grain of salt That said....

When the dollar was doing very well, it was overvalued. When something is overvalued, it's obviously going to fall. What is happening now, I think, was inevitable.

The oil companies also do something called zone pricing. I'm sure everyone has noticed this. They charge according to what they believe people in an area will pay. The more affluent the area, the higher the gas prices. Ain't it charming? Gas doesn't actually have to be this expensive at all; they just know they can rape us with prices, and we have no other alternative but to bend over and take it. Here's a cute little excerpt from CNNmoney:

"Exxon Mobil made history on Friday by reporting the highest quarterly and annual profits ever for a U.S. company."

Isn't it lovely? And quite frankly, I think that we could definitely find an alternative to oil if we actually, y'know, tried. But the oil companies and the government are bffs, so why would the government want to put resources into looking for alternatives that could potentially render oil companies obsolete?

And I really don't think a conventional war would work. We're part of a global economy now. I don't think it would really stimulate the American economy in the way that WWII did. Back then, we didn't outsource everything to India and China.

 

[Rockman X]

Isn't it lovely? And quite frankly, I think that we could definitely find an alternative to oil if we actually, y'know, tried. But the oil companies and the government are bffs, so why would the government want to put resources into looking for alternatives that could potentially render oil companies obsolete?

My dad was saying the other day how alot of this shit got started because of Cheney and Haliburton making deals with the companies behind closed doors.

Also, I would just like to say fuck ethanol. Most gas stations are already mixing into regular gasoline instead of offering us a choice on whether or not we want it. Most people think ethanol and go "YAY! LESS OIL DEPENDENCE!" but they don't bother to find out about it.The worst thing about it is that it's not as efficient as oil, so it doesn't burn as well. Know what that means? It reduces your gas mileage.

So basically, we're paying out the ass for cheaper quality gas that will force us to fill up more frequently. Sounds a little fishy now, doesn't it? Yeah, it might reduce our dependency on oil, but it won't reduce prices or our dependency on those who manufacture it. Not to mention there is simply not enough land in the US to grow corn on such a massive scale.

And I really don't think a conventional war would work. We're part of a global economy now. I don't think it would really stimulate the American economy in the way that WWII did. Back then, we didn't outsource everything to India and China.

War worked back then because it created lots of new jobs to kick the economy back into gear...but if we were to enter a "conventional" war...I don't see how many new jobs would be created, since all those created back in WW2 are now in place. If the demand for munitions and other things was high enough, then new factories might have to be built and that would create new jobs...but that would be a pretty bad war if that was necessary and I think the economy would be the least of our concerns.

 

[Contra Fates]

My dad was saying the other day how alot of this shit got started because of Cheney and Haliburton making deals with the companies behind closed doors.

Also, I would just like to say fuck ethanol. Most gas stations are already mixing into regular gasoline instead of offering us a choice on whether or not we want it. Most people think ethanol and go "YAY! LESS OIL DEPENDENCE!" but they don't bother to find out about it.The worst thing about it is that it's not as efficient as oil, so it doesn't burn as well. Know what that means? It reduces your gas mileage.

So basically, we're paying out the ass for cheaper quality gas that will force us to fill up more frequently. Sounds a little fishy now, doesn't it? Yeah, it might reduce our dependency on oil, but it won't reduce prices or our dependency on those who manufacture it. Not to mention there is simply not enough land in the US to grow corn on such a massive scale.

You're forgetting about one major issue with ethanol: the fact that you need to use gasoline to refine it in the first place. Ethanol really doesn't make that much of a difference in quality. If someone was planning to race their car, they'd notice. But to a common driver, the difference is barely noticeable. Eitherway, I think it's just an imaginary-quick fix. Sort of like sticking bubble gum on a leak.

Not to mention, because so many farmers are concentrating on growing corn, we're starting to see a shortage in other crops, especially wheat. The price of rice has gone up quite a bit. Of course, everything else has also risen due to inflation, but I've noticed, and heard of rice shortages and price increases, because of the focus on corn crops.

But the oil companies and the government are bffs, so why would the government want to put resources into looking for alternatives that could potentially render oil companies obsolete?

Haha, that made me lol.
Unfortunately, it is a sad truth. The government and oil companies have been closely knitted, so until we get a system of government that doesn't feel the need to make their pockets any deeper with oil money, we won't see much of a change. Unfortunately, I think a politician who isn't greedy is a bit of a paradox. It seems that only the scumbags really rise up to power lately, and those truly capable are destroyed by the media.

As for a war, I seriously doubt a war would pull us out of the recession. Sure, it might help to reunite the country for a few weeks like 9/11 did [I'm not making light of 9/11, I'm just remarking on the quick turn around this country's patriotism took afterwards] but that seems to be about it.

And, unfortunately, the common man is rather powerless to do anything about the conditions of this country. The Patriot Act has practically wiped out any hopes of a revolution, or at least a large-scale protest. All it takes is a little girl on MySpace saying she wants to kill the President, for the government's less scrupulous agencies to show up at their door.

I think for now, the best friend to those struggling in the changes of the economy, is whatever technology offers. Be it a basic bike, or a new electric car [The Chevy Volt is interesting], or even a public bus, people will just have to make adjustments.

 

[Kermit the Frog]

Hey, my father lives in West Palm Beach too!!
I'm quite shocked to see the news about stealing gas. I'm quite happy that the Hand's arm isn't as sever as I thought it would be. I would be horrified if it was not Hand but my father that caught the man stealing gas and my father had his arm nearly cut off.
Tell me when you see me father, he's a chubby guy, sometimes unshaved beard. Black hair, blue eyes, hairy legs monster . Just tell me when you see him, eh? Thanks.

 

[Rockman X]

You're forgetting about one major issue with ethanol: the fact that you need to use gasoline to refine it in the first place. Ethanol really doesn't make that much of a difference in quality. If someone was planning to race their car, they'd notice. But to a common driver, the difference is barely noticeable. Eitherway, I think it's just an imaginary-quick fix. Sort of like sticking bubble gum on a leak.

Not to mention, because so many farmers are concentrating on growing corn, we're starting to see a shortage in other crops, especially wheat. The price of rice has gone up quite a bit. Of course, everything else has also risen due to inflation, but I've noticed, and heard of rice shortages and price increases, because of the focus on corn crops.

Aye, I did forget about those two. Anyone with any sense is going to realize ethanol is just a quick fix (not that it fixes anything at all) and it's only being promoted so people won't complain as much. Wheat and rice going up...well, that's gonna hurt alot of businesses if they don't pull in enough income. Mainly I've just been focusing on ethanol mixes reducing gas mileage. Seems to me that it's a perfect strategy they've come up with, mix in ethanol with fuel to make the people think less money is being spent on oil, whilst they fill up more frequently and make up for that small percentage of oil being left out of fuel.

EET R CONSPIRACY

And, unfortunately, the common man is rather powerless to do anything about the conditions of this country. The Patriot Act has practically wiped out any hopes of a revolution, or at least a large-scale protest. All it takes is a little girl on MySpace saying she wants to kill the President, for the government's less scrupulous agencies to show up at their door.

A revolution would totally kick ass. But even without the Patriot Act inhibiting anything close to that, it would never work. People are just too goddamn stupid and lazy to pull of anything that required that much cooperation and effort.

People bitch about gas constantly, but I doubt many realize that if everyone in the nation stopped driving for one day (unless it was an absolute emergency, like going to the hospital) it would send a huge message to the government and the oil companies. Hell, it wouldn't even take the entire nation, just half or maybe even less. Go on a gas strike for a day and let the oil companies that you're tired of them jacking up prices and that you're tired of the government letting it slide. But people are simply content to bitch and believe in false hopes like ethanol and nuclear energy.

 

[Contra Fates]

A revolution would totally kick ass. But even without the Patriot Act inhibiting anything close to that, it would never work. People are just too goddamn stupid and lazy to pull of anything that required that much cooperation and effort.

People bitch about gas constantly, but I doubt many realize that if everyone in the nation stopped driving for one day (unless it was an absolute emergency, like going to the hospital) it would send a huge message to the government and the oil companies. Hell, it wouldn't even take the entire nation, just half or maybe even less. Go on a gas strike for a day and let the oil companies that you're tired of them jacking up prices and that you're tired of the government letting it slide. But people are simply content to bitch and believe in false hopes like ethanol and nuclear energy.

I would absolutely love an effective gas protest, but that one isn't logical. People have been forming one-day gas strikes for a while now, but the gas companies just laugh at it. You know why? Because we are ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT on fuel. This country can NOT function without gas. Millions would lose their jobs because public transportation in most of the country is laughable, and even public transportation needs gas. Not only that, but most people live too far from their work, to be able to bike or walk there.

The one-day gas strikes create a one-day loss of sales for the oil companies, but the next day, their sales skyrocket. They know just how dependent we are on gas, and know that a strike won't do anything about it. The only way those companies would feel any sort of impact, was if it were prolonged, for weeks, at least. And again, that just isn't possible in this nation.

This may sound horrible, but the most effective way to get a message across to the oil companies, would be to declare war on them. The old-school way of bombing organizations worked well in the past. It would really be the only way to damage the companies.

...Only problem with that, also, is we're stuck with our first, major problem: It doesn't solve our dependence problem on fuel.

 

[Rockman X]

I would absolutely love an effective gas protest, but that one isn't logical. People have been forming one-day gas strikes for a while now, but the gas companies just laugh at it. You know why? Because we are ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT on fuel. This country can NOT function without gas. Millions would lose their jobs because public transportation in most of the country is laughable, and even public transportation needs gas. Not only that, but most people live too far from their work, to be able to bike or walk there.

The one-day gas strikes create a one-day loss of sales for the oil companies, but the next day, their sales skyrocket. They know just how dependent we are on gas, and know that a strike won't do anything about it. The only way those companies would feel any sort of impact, was if it were prolonged, for weeks, at least. And again, that just isn't possible in this nation.

Yeah, I suppose you're right A prolonged strike would be like the effect 9/11 had on the economy when people were scared to go outside...cept maybe worse.

This may sound horrible, but the most effective way to get a message across to the oil companies, would be to declare war on them. The old-school way of bombing organizations worked well in the past. It would really be the only way to damage the companies.

...Only problem with that, also, is we're stuck with our first, major problem: It doesn't solve our dependence problem on fuel.

Haha, yes, fly our jets running on their fuel to their production facilities and bomb them. The irony xD

It's not really a permanent solution, but what if we just said to hell with the pussy environmentalists and started drilling in Alaska (not that anyone in the government has the balls to do that)? I'm no environmentalist, but I really don't see how expanding the Alaskan Pipeline and setting up oil rigs in the tundra will affect the moose and other wildlife that much. Besides, it's Alaska. All it's good for is oil and growing freakishly large produce. We wouldn't be able to run off it forever of course, but it would alleviate prices for a while and give people time to think of realistic, long-term solutions.

 

[Contra Fates]

It's not really a permanent solution, but what if we just said to hell with the pussy environmentalists and started drilling in Alaska (not that anyone in the government has the balls to do that)? I'm no environmentalist, but I really don't see how expanding the Alaskan Pipeline and setting up oil rigs in the tundra will affect the moose and other wildlife that much. Besides, it's Alaska. All it's good for is oil and growing freakishly large produce. We wouldn't be able to run off it forever of course, but it would alleviate prices for a while and give people time to think of realistic, long-term solutions.

From what I understand about the Alaskan Pipeline, is that it is very expensive to refine the oil, because we lack an efficient amount of oil refineries. Whether that is true or not, I'm not sure. I just remember hearing about it.

I remember hearing a little over a year ago about a massive oil reserve found in the Gulf of Mexico, that contained an estimated 15 billion barrels of oil. The amount that America has is around 29 billion barrels in their reserve. But, apparently, we can't touch that oil because Cuba has claim to it in an agreement that was made possible by Jimmy Carter.

And, want to hear another disgusting fact? Gas costs $0.12-$0.19 cents in Middle Eastern countries. Hearing that really makes me wonder if the War in Iraq was truly about gas, with such a disturbing difference in prices.

The bottom line about it all, is we NEED to find alternate ways of attaining power. Exxon Mobil, being the 'lovely' company that they are, bought out an engine that a man created, that could get 100 miles to a gallon of...get this...WATER.

Could you imagine running your car on water?

 

[Rockman X]

From what I understand about the Alaskan Pipeline, is that it is very expensive to refine the oil, because we lack an efficient amount of oil refineries. Whether that is true or not, I'm not sure. I just remember hearing about it.

I remember hearing a little over a year ago about a massive oil reserve found in the Gulf of Mexico, that contained an estimated 15 billion barrels of oil. The amount that America has is around 29 billion barrels in their reserve. But, apparently, we can't touch that oil because Cuba has claim to it in an agreement that was made possible by Jimmy Carter.

Bah, everything is expensive. But it may be more expensive in the long run to forgo drilling...but it doesn't matter, it won't happen anyway because of all the damn hippie environmentalists.

Cuba has claim to 29 billion barrels of OUR reserves? Hurray for Jimmy Carter Speaking of Cuba, isn't there supposed to be a few billion barrels of oil in the North Cuba Basin, along with a hefty amount of natural gas? Perhaps we should get rid of that embargo and make friends with Cuba?

And, want to hear another disgusting fact? Gas costs $0.12-$0.19 cents in Middle Eastern countries. Hearing that really makes me wonder if the War in Iraq was truly about gas, with such a disturbing difference in prices.

Well that's no surprise, they don't have shipping costs and they'd probably declare Jihad on the oil companies if they had the nerve to charge them alot for their own oil.

But no, the war in Iraq was never about oil. If it was, we would have seized their oil fields and wouldn't be paying a ton for oil.

The bottom line about it all, is we NEED to find alternate ways of attaining power. Exxon Mobil, being the 'lovely' company that they are, bought out an engine that a man created, that could get 100 miles to a gallon of...get this...WATER.

Could you imagine running your car on water?

Again, no surprise there. They wouldn't dare let anyone impact their sales. Makes you wonder just how many other ideas they bought out so they could keep raking in the money...

 

[Donald Trump]

Again, no surprise there. They wouldn't dare let anyone impact their sales. Makes you wonder just how many other ideas they bought out so they could keep raking in the money...

Ford used to pay people to beat the shit out of union members, big businesses are fairly unscrupulous and amoral when it comes to preserving their profits. Oil company geologists knew about plate tectonics but decided they wouldn't inform anyone else.

OPEC could supply more oil to help reduce prices, but the real problem is the oil companies. Who are earning mega profits. I'm not sure in the US but here the government refuses to lower petrol taxes at all. Whereas in China they buy the oil and then sell it at about 40c. Communism does have perks.

Don't blame Carter, blame Ike and JFK, Castro was not a communist, the US blowing up(possibly) a ship in Havan harbour lead to him being a communist, he was just a nationalist. If Jimmy Carter made the agreement then it was during detente, so you can't really blame him.
Although blaming bush would be easier, as he pisses off Castro and Chavez, who are the ones with the oil/ gas or w/e they have.

You can't really have effective boycotts of petrol, it is a necessity, and therefore inelastic. What would work is putting pressure on government, who can set maximum prices. Which is unlikely as Republicans love the free market and they really hate to interfere with it.

 

[BalambFish]

Oil just hit another record the other day at over 127 a barrel. It's so expensive and so harmful too. What's worse is that Goldman Sach's predicts it to reach 141 while the OPEC says it is possible at 200. I guess the only real solution to solving our oil problem to move away from it. We should've developed our alternative fuels much earlier. Did you guys know that in the 60's scientists already had biofuels but the big oil companies bought them out so that their businesses wouldn't go down? Talk about greed.

 

[Donald Trump]

Bumped.
Why you may ask?
Obviously to show you all that I am much smarter than you

Russia has, for the time, produced less oil in this quarter than ever. This decrease in supply will push prices up, OPEC have decided to supply and extra 300,000 barrels of oil per day, which quite frankly is such an insignificant amount that prices won't change.
That coupled with the fact that the US economy is entering recession which has lead to the federal bank printing more money to inject into the economy. This leads to a depreciation of the US dollar, making oil more expensive in other countries.

Now then, the million dollar question. What is driving up the price of oil?
Tedius will love this, China. The increasing demand of oil by growing countries such as China and India has lead to huge increases in prices. Added together, China and India's population is about 2.5 billion people. And now that they all want oil, prices have to rise, it's simple supply and demand.

Seems that the best way to reduce oil prices is to nuke China and India