Suggestion bringing back previous hated proposal with a touch of compromise.

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Razberry Knight

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Previously I asked that the forum would be better off not using these odd yet unorganized FF locations as thread sections. Obviously hated for 3 reasons.

1)they got used to it (although dont deny, newcomers have a difficult time).

2)It gives the forum flavor (I suppose considering it has to compensate for lack of it)

3)they think im lazy and thats why the description is there.

Now ive been here a bit longer and explored the forum, I still cant get used to it. Im always off by one or two sections away as I go down. I still contest against them completely. Although I do believe forums should bring flavor, I dont believe it has to do an excessive job just to differentiate from the other forums.


personally, I think its just being done to compensate for its incredibly lack of design that other forums have. KHInsider for example provides an arsenal of styles and designs. Idk how restricting seamus is, but I think effort in that department could be done. So much I dknt think the section naming would matter.

However, im not going to contest it so much....everyone else seems happy with it (despite most of them knowing the difficulty they have to start off with). But I do strongly suggest it should be much more consistent. Guadosalam for introduction is a pretty bad idea for new members to give themselves a proper introduction because they are unfamiliar with this forum.


Another is how vague some of the sections are that contain other threads. They seem incredibly simple names dont get me wrong but they dont exactly give a full understanding from just reading it. Such as "The meeting room" is that another catchy name to describe something like "Spam Collesium" and "Study Hall"? Its literally a Meeting Room, so the "The" throws me off due to implying something more than just what it is.


"Temple of the Ancients" REALLY through me off. For a while I was looking for that, and couldnt find it. and the Finalbahn being for cars? I had to loom that one up because I dont exactly remember that in FF (apparently it means engine in german?)

But my main beef is how inconsistent they are and how some of them have such not so well known, not so iconic names. Everything is a mixed bag. Maybe naming one them Mysidia? Lufenia? Ivalice?


Idk, I grew up in a completwly different type of forum. Maybe this forum tries too hard to be unique?


Heres an idea, make FF themed seamus styles.

instead of tonberry, we could have ff logos, such as ff7 logo, ff9 logo, ff12 logo, ff2 logo, etc. And would use a gradient to resemble closest to that ff series. It doesnt even have to be a logo.


A reasonable proposal:

keep the naming for subsections more clear for first time readers and maybe older forum readers. Maybe theyve ignored 1/3s of the forum due to not being clear. Rename Temple of the Ancients to something like Counsel or Personal Help request or something that makes it clear. Same with Finalbahn. I dont really think it adds "flavor" at all. But rather a misguided effort to jazz something that doesnt need jazzing. Problem with adding flavor at every corner is putting it on a little too thick.

Another is keeping a consistent naming convention, Gaia and Spira look fine. But Guadosalam makes no sense. I think youll be doing new editors alot of favors if that was at least renamed to something easy on the tongue or just make it consistent name to match the rest in that group. Are "Square Enix News" and "Information Compendium" also part of ffx-2 world? Obviously not, so Guadosalam doesnt really belong.
 
I hate the Tonberry things. They're pretty stupid looking.

But the rest is fine how it is.

When I was new I figured out what the sections were with no problems.
 
you are literally the only person to ever have such a problem with this. i think everyone at some point has thought 'guadosalam sounds like a stupid place to do introductions.' but no one has really given much of a fuck because it doesn't matter.
 
How do we know that? Ive invited some friends from other forums to this forum and never came back. They never actually said it was because of the layout, but its definitely a possible factor. I dont want to really force an answer out of them.

Maybe im the only user out there worth making this forum more accessible to newcomers. Maybe we're scaring off members and you dont even know it. Its not a bad idea. Its just a change in memory lane.



And if you agree to a degree, why fight it so much? Or rather why give attitude? Its a good idea. I dont care if im the only one who ever said anything. The visitor count is also lower than other kh/ff forums.

If every1 at some point thought "Guadosalam" was a stupid name, then why not change it? Because its not the same you grew up with?

Why is change such a bad thing in this forum?
 
since your friends didn't say it was because of the layout and kick up a fuss like you, maybe that isn't why they never came back. there are much worse things in the world than some minorly ambiguous forum titles
 
To be perfectly honest, I never gave a single thought about the forum layout until reading this topic. I joined back in '06. I'm sure the forum had a very different layout back then, and that it was with Invisionfree. Since then, I buggered off for about a year, came back, went, came back, then buggered off for a few years and came back late last year. Not a single time have I really thought anything of the layout, nor really paid much attention to any changes that might have been put in effect during my absences. I've always found it simple enough to navigate the forum, so I really don't see any point whatsoever in changing a couple of forum names, and I don't see how that would encourage more people to stay.
 
To be perfectly honest, I never gave a single thought about the forum layout until reading this topic. I joined back in '06. I'm sure the forum had a very different layout back then, and that it was with Invisionfree. Since then, I buggered off for about a year, came back, went, came back, then buggered off for a few years and came back late last year. Not a single time have I really thought anything of the layout, nor really paid much attention to any changes that might have been put in effect during my absences. I've always found it simple enough to navigate the forum, so I really don't see any point whatsoever in changing a couple of forum names, and I don't see how that would encourage more people to stay.

It does alot. A) easy navigation. B) No need to actually stop at a name and try to pronounce it (I played ffx-2 so j already know, but doesnt really change the fact that its a mouthful) C) Shows User friendly forum.

Its definitely a factor. Not everyone is going to dedicate time just to know exactly where everything is in a forum. Some people wont even give a second thought when looking for one and cant find it. The subforums will definitely be more accessible with simpler easy names.

I think the proposal brings nothing but benefits, even if one considers them small.

since your friends didn't say it was because of the layout and kick up a fuss like you, maybe that isn't why they never came back. there are much worse things in the world than some minorly ambiguous forum titles

Such as? When it comes to forums, navigation is key. I read back in the old thread and some of you dont deny the difficulty it is. But its something you long term users grew up with. Lets not get snippy over a simple change. I rather ignore you if your only going to make this look worst than it actually is.


is there something wrong with a consistent naming convention for a forjm? Its not like im asking to get rid of all of them. Just ones that make it difficult for navigation for newcomers.
 
This site was the first real forum I frequented on, and I never found the layout difficult to understand or run through. I've never avoided any part or section of the forum because the name was "off" or there wasn't a description. I just clicked on everything to check it out. It takes a few minutes from your life to just click on and see for yourself what they look like or what topics are discussed.



New members join forums and never visit again. It happens. I highly doubt it has anything to do with the forum layout. Honestly ,I think newcomers have a harder time fitting into this forum rather than operating on it.
 
It does alot. A) easy navigation. B) No need to actually stop at a name and try to pronounce it (I played ffx-2 so j already know, but doesnt really change the fact that its a mouthful) C) Shows User friendly forum.

Its definitely a factor. Not everyone is going to dedicate time just to know exactly where everything is in a forum. Some people wont even give a second thought when looking for one and cant find it. The subforums will definitely be more accessible with simpler easy names.

I think the proposal brings nothing but benefits, even if one considers them small.
you mean simpler than music studio, ff7, spam etc?
 
this whole thing can't be that much of an issue for you because despite the fact that the forum is so 'terribly organiseed' you're still here. i'd say you're crying over spilled milk, but the milk is still in the bottle
 
If someone wants to join a forum, they're not gonna run for the hills because of the section names. There are plenty of ways to find out what's included in the section: the section description, the SB, PMing a mod (or any member for that matter). It's not difficult.

And when you talk about making the forum unique, that is 100% what you need to do in this day and age. There are so many going down the pan lately that if you don't stand out and offer something different, you're going to be one of them. So, maybe we should rename Guadosalam as "Introductions"? Sounds incredibly sterile and robotic, but we might as well change all the titles and make them literal.

Also, how is "The Meeting Room" more confusing than "Meeting Room"? "The" just means that it's the only one. Which it is.

Finally, you say that giving people a section description means that we think you're lazy ("3. They think I'm lazy and that's why the description is there"). Such a complete contradiction to your whole post. You think that we should change all the section titles to be more convenient for everyone, but then you say that a different convenience that helps everyone is only there because we think you're lazy? I'm just baffled. It's nothing to do with laziness Razberry. It's to help people.
 
Your proving nothing. I see a better way, why not improve it?

Im here mainly for the basics, FF and thats it. Now im actually trying to navigate through it and itgets difficult trying to find what im looking for.

Can you stop with the strawman arguments? No one is actually saying this is a bad idea. And maybeiits selfish to keep it one way simply because its what youre used to.


I dont doubt for a second, the new layout would affect you negatively other than missing "guadosalam".

If someone wants to join a forum, they're not gonna run for the hills because of the section names. There are plenty of ways to find out what's included in the section: the section description, the SB, PMing a mod (or any member for that matter). It's not difficult.

And when you talk about making the forum unique, that is 100% what you need to do in this day and age. There are so many going down the pan lately that if you don't stand out and offer something different, you're going to be one of them. So, maybe we should rename Guadosalam as "Introductions"? Sounds incredibly sterile and robotic, but we might as well change all the titles and make them literal.

Also, how is "The Meeting Room" more confusing than "Meeting Room"? "The" just means that it's the only one. Which it is.

Finally, you say that giving people a section description means that we think you're lazy ("3. They think I'm lazy and that's why the description is there"). Such a complete contradiction to your whole post. You think that we should change all the section titles to be more convenient for everyone, but then you say that a different convenience that helps everyone is only there because we think you're lazy? I'm just baffled. It's nothing to do with laziness Razberry. It's to help people.


Of course another person making a heavily debatable and subjective argument.

A) running from the hills implies they cant get away from this forum. Its quite the opposite. The forums for ff are everywhere, what makes people stay is what matters.

Your trying to make it look like potential users would take more effort getting away from this forum than anything else. And thats simply not true. Theres just nothing keeping them.

B) whats wrong with "Introductions"? Why not name all of the forums differently? Why not call it "Sakaguchi letters" instead of square enix news, its a standard name, but the point is, Guadosalam is not only the passing point for newcomers to face (leaving a bad impression) but its also out of place. What is ffx-2 location doing there in the first place? Compared to Gaia, Spira, Zanarkand which I have avoided in the proposal, Guadosalam just doesnt fit.

But still, you get the point, and I know your over playing the robotic feel because you might aswell propose the subforums to have ff titles too. Right now im iffy on "The Meeting Room". Removing the "the" still implies the one and only in this forum but not I the entire universe. Its like calling the only table in the room "the table". But im not really fighting that one.

C) no, I did not contradict myself, I stated what others used against me, whether they contradict eachother is completely on them.
 
nobody but you is saying it's a good idea. it was shot down last time because it isn't a good idea, and still isn't. if it ain't broke don't fix it, and all that.
 
nobody but you is saying it's a good idea. it was shot down last time because it isn't a good idea, and still isn't. if it ain't broke don't fix it, and all that.

It was shot down out of personal taste, and that one was much broader. This one has more substance.


Editors admitting the difficulty, but when used against them, they quickly change to "nevermind" attitude.

No one here is actually saying its a bad idea.
 
And no matter how many changes the forum goes through, there's always going to be people who dislike it. It's impossible to please everyone, and so far it seems that the only person who will be pleased with these changes is you. It would be different if many members here jumped on your idea, wanting said changes to be made, but that isn't the case. And that's because people are either happy with the forum layout, or just don't care about the layout.

Navigation is an important aspect to a successful forum, I'm not doubting that. But this forum is simple enough to navigate, so navigation isn't as much of an issue as you're making it out to be.
 
Of course another person making a heavily debatable and subjective argument.

Like you are doing, you mean? Or is objective that FF fans don't like FF names for their section titles?


A) running from the hills implies they cant get away from this forum. Its quite the opposite. The forums for ff are everywhere, what makes people stay is what matters.

"Running for the hills" means that you are running away from something as fast as your little legs can carry you. Greeny's english lesson 101.

Your trying to make it look like potential users would take more effort getting away from this forum than anything else. And thats simply not true. Theres just nothing keeping them.

Nothing keeping them here? Is this a different debate you'd like to bring up? One that has nothing to do with section titles?

B) whats wrong with "Introductions"? Why not name all of the forums differently? Why not call it "Sakaguchi letters" instead of square enix news, its a standard name, but the point is, Guadosalam is not only the passing point for newcomers to face (leaving a bad impression) but its also out of place. What is ffx-2 location doing there in the first place? Compared to Gaia, Spira, Zanarkand which I have avoided in the proposal, Guadosalam just doesnt fit.

I think you're forgetting that a lot of the locations are explained in the "Welcome to FFF" PM. Everyone knows where things are, you see. It's not about whether Guadosalam is in Spira or whatever. It literally doesn't matter.

But still, you get the point, and I know your over playing the robotic feel because you might aswell propose the subforums to have ff titles too. Right now im iffy on "The Meeting Room". Removing the "the" still implies the one and only in this forum but not I the entire universe. Its like calling the only table in the room "the table". But im not really fighting that one.

"The" is a simple word with barely any meaning. That's just an opinion of yours that no one else is fussy enough to care about.

C) no, I did not contradict myself, I stated what others used against me, whether they contradict eachother is completely on them.

I can't see where anyone else has contradicted themselves in this thread. I may have been blinded by my immense relucatance to change though (sarcasm for the blind).

(Typing something to allow the post to go through)
 
And no matter how many changes the forum goes through, there's always going to be people who dislike it. It's impossible to please everyone, and so far it seems that the only person who will be pleased with these changes is you. It would be different if many members here jumped on your idea, wanting said changes to be made, but that isn't the case. And that's because people are either happy with the forum layout, or just don't care about the layout.

Navigation is an important aspect to a successful forum, I'm not doubting that. But this forum is simple enough to navigate, so navigation isn't as much of an issue as you're making it out to be.
Simple enough for those who decided to stay. If they dont care then we can ignore them. I mean why care about a troll who doesnt actually care?

Also the change is incredibly minor this time but enough to leave a more warm welcome to newcomers.

Even if its just small, its at least worth expirementing for a couple of months. Mitsuki in the past previously admitted this could be more difficult for newcomers. So I think its a fair compromise.


Most people arent even looking at whats proposed, their warping it into something else.

No Forum is perfect but it should aim to be more accessible and easy navigation at least where newcomers usually go first.
 
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