He'd been fighting for two hours. That's going to take its toll on him regardless of how much physical damage he'd sustained, if only due to the sheer length of the fight. His stamina was bound to be wearing at least a little bit thin by then, if nothing else, and I'm sure that Crisis AVALANCE dealt a fair amount of damage by the time Cloud showed up. Yes, Cloud probably did most of the work, but had he been on his own, he would've lost that fight.
That's just ridiculous. By that logic, nothing Zack or Cloud has ever done should count. I'm not basing my argument around Gameplay. Storyline-wise, Zack performed all of those feats on his own. According to FFVII canon, Zack didn't have help against those ShinRa Soldiers. He brought them down all by his lonesome. There is no Party System in Crisis Core, nor does Zack visibly have help judging from the cutscenes and FMV's, so all that Zack accomplishes in Crisis Core, he accomplishes by himself. However, as far as the FFVII Storyline is concerned, Cloud had help during all of those fights, as evidenced by the fact that other characters appear alongside him during the cutscenes. Even if you do a Solo Cloud challenge, at least two other characters will always be on-screen with Cloud during cutscenes. To deny that, canonically, Cloud had help during FFVII is nothing more than blatant fanboyism.
That doesn't change the fact that Bahamut had been fighting for two hours. I'm not saying that he was exhausted by the time Cloud showed up, but he had to have been at least a bit fatigued. Besides, you fail to realize that none of Cloud's basic attacks have any more of an effect on Bahamut than the rest of Crisis AVALANCHE's. Only Braver actually caused any decent damage to him. As far as his regular sword techniques were concerned, Bahamut shrugged them off like they were minor annoyances. Other than Braver, the only attack that caused damage to Bahamut was Climhazzard, which Cloud was only able to use so quickly because Aerith helped him out.
First of all, Genesis is pretty damn close to Sephiroth's level. In fact, it's speculated by many that Genesis is Sephiroth's equal. Pay attention during the Sephiroth vs. Genesis video. About thirty seconds into the fight, Genesis decides to go up against Sephiroth one-on-one, and he fares incredibly well. In fact, the only reason he's unable to keep up is because Angeal keeps interrupting him during his strongest attacks. He managed to get Sephiroth on the ropes at least once during that battle, which is no small feat. Honestly, don't be so quick to write Genesis off as a weakling. He's definitely one of the strongest fighters in the FFVII Universe.
Yes, Sephiroth was surprised by Cloud's strength because he was nothing more than a mere ShinRa MP at the time. The fact that he was surprised most certainly didn't mean that Cloud was anywhere near his level, it just meant that he had a sort of strength that a ShinRa MP shouldn't have had. Let me put it to you this way: If a toddler came up to me and cheapshotted me in the stomach while I wasn't looking, I don't think I'd be all that worried about getting hurt. However, if a toddler cheapshotted me in the stomach while I wasn't looking and knocked the wind out of me, I'd be pretty surprised. Does that mean that the toddler could beat me in a fair fight? No, but it does mean that he's the strongest toddler I've ever seen. That's all that Sephiroth was saying; Cloud was far more powerful than a regular ShinRa MP should've been.
That's irrelevent. Again, Sephiroth wasn't even trying against Cloud in Advent Children. If he wanted to, he could've ended that fight at any given moment. I can guarentee it. If Cloud were to go up against a Sephiroth who was actually exerting any kind of effort, he would get utterly dominated in a matter of seconds. Zack and Cloud are both equally outclassed by a Sephiroth who actually takes them seriously, so you can't cite Cloud's fight against Sephiroth in Advent Children as a reason for him being superior to Zack.
Actually, no they couldn't. Yes, it's true that a SOLDIER is vastly superior to any normal ShinRa troop, but that doesn't change the fact that Zack was going up against over a hundred of them, each armed with a machine gun or a melee weapon and who had air support. Besides, if you look closely after the fight, you'll see three SOLDIER helmets lying around on the ground. That basically means that Zack defeated over a hundred ShinRa troops (again, with air support) AND three members of SOLDIER. Yes, on their own, ShinRa MPs aren't very impressive, but what makes the feat an incredible one is the fact that there were so damn many of them.
Genesis has Sephiroth trapped in a sphere of fire and was ready to go in for the kill, which was when Angeal interrupted him. That let Sephiroth get back on his feet, figuratively speaking. And yes, Zack can be better than Genesis despite him being in the same league as Pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth. However, that's a whole other discussion in and of itself. The point is that Genesis was able to, if nothing else, compete on Sephiroth's level, and Zack was able to defeat him. As for how he did it...I chalk it up to the fact that he gained significant strength over the course of Crisis Core. Their battle was, remember, at the end of the game.
You seem to be of the impression that I think Cloud is weak. As I've said numerous times, Cloud is still a powerhouse. He's far from the strongest fighter in the FFVII Universe, but he's done some impressive things both before and after his Mako Enhancements. For all I know, maybe he could fare just as well as Zack did against the army of ShinRa troops, but I don't see him doing any better. He's never really done anything to suggest that he's stronger than Zack. The two of them have been shown performing feats of relatively equal strength. To effectively compare them, all anyone can do is base their argument on what they've accomplished, considering they've never actually fought against each other or even in the same Compilation entry.
Last Order is considered obsolete now thanks to Crisis Core. Of course, even in Last Order itself, it's fairly obvious that Sephiroth is incredibly pissed at Zack. At that point, he was just trying to mow down anything that stood between him and JENOVA. He was far too angry to even be arrogant about it. Sephiroth just wanted Zack dead, or at the very least, out of his way. Though it's been a while since I've seen Last Order, I remember it being fairly obvious that Sephiroth is just going batshit crazy on Zack. If anything, he's definitely not holding back. Yes, Zack was dominated, but Sephiroth was giving his all.
Yes, Sephiroth gained a number of incredible abilities after his dip in the Lifestream. After the event in Nibelheim, Sephiroth gained telekinesis, the ability to make himself intangible, magical spells, manipulation of JENOVA Cells, and attacks like Supernova (exaggerated for Gameplay purposes, but they probably still exist). However, while Sephiroth is definitely stronger in AC than he was in Crisis Core, he doesn't use any of the abilities he gained from his time spent in the Lifestream. If he used telekinesis or magic against Cloud in AC, then I could see you having an argument. However, Sephiroth only uses swordsmanship against Cloud during their battle in Advent Children, which is no different from what he used against Zack.
Okay, so he uses his telekinesis once, and he doesn't even use it on Cloud. Sephiroth only used his telekinesis to save himself a few minutes of his time. Tell me, then, Jimmy, if Sephiroth was using his full power during that fight, why didn't he simply restrain Cloud with his telekinesis and use his mental powers to rip him to shreds? Why didn't he turn intangible to avoid Cloud's sword-based attacks? Why didn't he blast Cloud to smitherenes with magic? Why didn't he use Supernova, Heartless Angel, or Pale Horse? The answer is simple; Sephiroth wasn't using his full power. He wasn't even using a fraction of his full range of capabilities and was, instead, restraining himself so that he could make Cloud suffer.
It means that, by the time of the Nibelheim Incident, Sephiroth was stronger than Zack, Genesis, and Angeal. Think about it. A lot of time passed between Sephiroth's fight against Genesis and his fight against Zack. Do you think Sephiroth was just sitting around doing nothing during that time? No. He was training vigorously. Genesis, however, had abandoned SOLDIER, so he didn't get the chance to train himself like Sephiroth did. Naturally, Sephiroth got stronger and Genesis didn't. By the time of the Nibelheim Incident, Zack was as strong as Sephiroth was about a year ago. However, since Sephiroth had been getting stronger, as well, he was still able to dominate Zack.
Such is the life of an elitist, my dear friend. Alas, it is my burden to bear and mine alone, unless someone arrives to back me up on this. Either way, I'm verbally owning these two, so it's really nothing to worry about. I'm sure they'll come around eventually.
At the end of FFVII, in the North Crater, Sephiroth uses telekinesis to restrain the entire party for a good minute or so. Red XIII even says that it feels as though his body is being physically torn apart. That was when Sephiroth's mental powers were spread amongst eight fighters. Imagine what would happen if he focused all of that mental power on Cloud. I wouldn't be surprised if Sephiroth could simply use sheer telekinetic power to crush Cloud's body. At the very least, Sephiroth would be able to restrain Cloud long enough for him to deal the finishing blow. I mean, even with the help of seven other fighters, Cloud struggled for a solid minute before he was actually able to break Sephiroth's mental grip on his body. That's more than enough time for Sephiroth to impale or cleave him in half.
Nope. Sephiroth's AC form was stated to be his most powerful form by the creators of the FFVII Compilation themselves. As in, during AC, Sephiroth is even stronger than he was as Safer Sephiroth. I think it's safe to assume that he still has access to Supernova, Wall, etc. There's really no reason to believe that he doesn't. If he's stronger than he was as Safer Sephiroth, how could he possibly have lost his other abilities unless he gained something even better as compensation for the loss? Regardless of the circumstances, AC Sephiroth is definitely more powerful than Safer Sephiroth, so it's only logical to assume that he retained all of his abilities from that form.
No, it wasn't because of one attack. It's because he didn't use ANY of his attacks other than his basic swordsmanship and flight. No telekinesis, no intangibility, no magic, no Supernova, no Wall, no Pale Horse or Heartless Angel...The list goes on. Plus, it was stated by the Nomura and Nojima that Sephiroth didn't take Cloud seriously. They said, very explicitly, that Sephiroth wasn't exerting any real effort.
Again, just because Sephiroth was surprised at Cloud's strength doesn't mean that he was acknowledging Cloud as being stronger than him or even in the same league. Yes, Cloud did get much stronger since their last fight, but he still wasn't anywhere near Sephiroth's level. At the very least, he isn't strong enough to make Sephiroth take him seriously. Again, there were multiple points at which Sephiroth could've ended the fight. Hell, he could've ended it at any given moment by restraining Cloud with telekinesis.
Yes, they did face him at full force in FFVII. However, you contradicted yourself by saying that Cloud had the party on his side. Cloud didn't defeat Sephiroth on his own, he defeated Sephiroth with the help of seven other people. The entire party fought against Bizarro Sephiroth, and then three party members fought against Safer Sephiroth (by which point Sephiroth was probably a bit fatigued from getting whaled on by the entire party). How does Cloud get all the credit here? Yes, he typically does a lot of the fighting, but he definitely couldn't have beaten Safer Sephiroth on his own.
