Was I the only one who didn't understand the ending?

[DarkClaymore]

So at the ending we see Basch with his brother's hair cut.
I thought he changed the hair cut in order to remember his brother or something. It is not the first time I see such thing.

But as I played FFXII:RW and read the information about Basch, I realized how wrong I was. He actually changed his hair cut in order to pretend he is Gabranth and to take his place in the Archadian army as a Judge Maeister.

So I was wondering. Was I the only one who didn't understand that from just playing FFXII?

 

[Eight]

I thought he got the haircut to look more presentable and clean tbh (Because quite frankly, he looked scruffy), as well as to show he has taken over his brother's role. I didn't know he was taking over his whole identiy o_o. Looks like you aren't the only one who didn't understand.

Maybe they should of made it clearer for the more slower players

 

[Nioelle]

I was a little confused, too. I saw it like Goofy did (although, I did like the scruffy look). The more I thought about it, though, I realized that you only had the occurence in Bhujerba with Vaan running around saying he was Basch, and not everyone believed him. Basch was still dead according to the world. I think becoming his brother was easier for him than to explain everything that had happened. I'm probably thinking too hard about this, though!

 

[DarkClaymore]

I was a little confused, too. I saw it like Goofy did (although, I did like the scruffy look). The more I thought about it, though, I realized that you only had the occurence in Bhujerba with Vaan running around saying he was Basch, and not everyone believed him. Basch was still dead according to the world. I think becoming his brother was easier for him than to explain everything that had happened. I'm probably thinking too hard about this, though!

That one possible reason why he did it, as the world really believes he is dead.
This fact as well helped him to pretend as his brother. As no one will ever think he is Basch.

From what I understood in FFXII:RW (don't remember if it was clearly written or my own conclusion), there are two main reasons to why he decided to become a judge:

1) This way he knows everything that happens in Archidia.
So he can prevent possible future wars or conflicts.

2) He is the guardin of the new peace-seeking Archadian Emperor: Larsa Solidor.

 

[Saix]

Gabranth's

Spoiler

dying words

to Basch were basically requesting him to take care of Larsa; to protect him. Gabranth was charged with this by Gramis so we can assume Basch simply absorbed this duty in addition to retaining the image of the Empire's strength - which would have been shaken if a principal Judge Magister was reported dead.

Can't really remember if I immediately understood after my first playthrough, but that's always how I'd interpreted it.

 

[Donald Trump]

Gabranth's

Spoiler

dying words

to Basch were basically requesting him to take care of Larsa; to protect him. Gabranth was charged with this by Gramis so we can assume Basch simply absorbed this duty in addition to retaining the image of the Empire's strength - which would have been shaken if a principal Judge Magister was reported dead.

Can't really remember if I immediately understood after my first playthrough, but that's always how I'd interpreted it.

I don't think it has much to do with retaining an image of strength.

Spoiler

The emperor had been murdered by (supposedly) the senate, who were all arrested and executed, then Vayne became emperor, fought the rebels and then fused himself with Bahamut before dying and Larsa eventually becoming emperor.

He just wanted him to protect Larsa

Spoiler

Drace asked Gabranth to look after before Gabranth killed her and he was telling Basch to do the same thing.

It is far more easy to do so as Gabranth than Basch, who is a rebel and was thought to be dead.

 

[Saix]

Interesting. Taking all that into consideration I do see what you're saying, but with or without an Emperor or corrupt senate, the Judge Magisters embody the law of Archadia and so the ultimate strength. That said... it's likely Drace's death was reported as well as Bergan's. =/

I shit on my argument.

 

[GoldenMaster]

I think he did it to make others think he was his brother as well. It would be alot easier to just have everyone believe that you are someone else than try to bring back the "dead".

 

[Toma]

uhh i had no trouble at all in understanding the fact that he was protecting larsa and just cut his hair and took over gabranths position

 

[Not of Rust]

I don't think he was hiding his identity - given those who assumed power in Archadia and Dalmasca respectively, after Vayne's defeat, his name would have been cleared immediately.

 

[Auronlu]

The ending of FFXII does NOT make it clear that Basch is assuming his brother's identity as well as his position. That's a surprise revealed in the sequel. However, it's strongly implied by visual cues: Basch is wearing his brother's armor and haircut. What the ending does make crystal clear is that Basch has assumed Gabranth's job of guarding Larsa, for reasons the brothers discuss just before Gabranth dies.

There is good reason (besides tragic irony) for Basch to pretend he's Gabranth, not only act in his place. The political rumor mill would go into overdrive if Basch von Rosenburg suddenly showed up as Larsa's bodyguard after Vayne's mysterious and highly suspicious death. Think how Larsa would look with Basch at his elbow. Basch, depending on which rumor you believed, was:

-- Murderer of the King of Dalmasca
-- Right hand of Princess Ashe in her rebellion against Vayne and the empire (and there would doubtless be some rumors that Larsa had helped Ashe, against his brother and father).
-- Gabranth's no-good brother
-- Dead, only that turned out to be a lie promulgated by Ondore, known to be playing both sides
-- Hanging out with sky pirates

All those details point to one inescapable suspicion: Ashe and Larsa were in alliance to bump off Larsa's father and older brother Vayne, and thereby secure thrones for themselves. If it were known that Larsa's new bodyguard is actually a Dalmascan agent -- one of those who helped kill Vayne and throw off the imperial yoke -- Archadian noble houses could accuse Larsa of being a puppet of Damlasca, and have grounds for plotting another assassination.

It looks much, MUCH less suspicious to have Gabranth as Larsa's right-hand man. Gabranth had impeccable credentials in the Empire.

 

[Terra Branford]

Basch is wearing his brother's armor and haircut. What the ending does make crystal clear is that Basch has assumed Gabranth's job of guarding Larsa, for reasons the brothers discuss just before Gabranth dies.

No, silly! Gabranth asks Basch to take care of Larsa because he won't be around to take care of him anymore before he dies.

There is good reason (besides tragic irony) for Basch to pretend he's Gabranth, not only act in his place. The political rumor mill would go into overdrive if Basch von Rosenburg suddenly showed up as Larsa's bodyguard after Vayne's mysterious and highly suspicious death. Think how Larsa would look with Basch at his elbow. Basch, depending on which rumor you believed, was:

The old king and the nobles so to say, wanted Larsa as their ruler, not Vayne. But because they were frightened of Vayne, they let him be the ruler. Now that Vayne is dead, Larsa can rule and everyone would know the truth behind Basch's fake death.
Gabranth and Basch use to live where Larsa rules (remember? That's why Gabranth wanted revenge so badly, because Basch left his homeland).
That said, the Empire that Larsa rules over would have no problem with Basch being Larsa's personal body guard, especially if Larsa wished it and Gabranth wished it as well.
Also, Basch becomes Judge Magister, in his brother's place.

 

[Auronlu]

No, silly! Gabranth asks Basch to take care of Larsa because he won't be around to take care of him anymore before he dies.

Gabranth asks Basch to take care of Larsa because he's going to die, but their discussion which I alluded to is a little more specific. Gabranth describes the unstable state of the empire and that it's liable to plunge into civil war, and Larsa's the only thing that can keep that from happening. So it's for the sake of Ivalice, not just for Gabranth, that Basch is serving Larsa.

Gabranth and Basch use to live where Larsa rules (remember? That's why Gabranth wants revenge so badly, because Basch left his homeland).

Nope. The political mess in this game is most of the story, and it's hard to keep it all straight, isn't it? Gabranth/Noah and Basch were from another country conquered by the empire. They're from Landis.

Noah/Gabranth sided with the conquerers, and somehow seems to have self-justified that to himself as being on the side of right. Basch fled (perhaps before Landis fell?), joined the neighboring Kingdom of Dalmasca, rose up through the ranks of their knights and fought against the empire Gabranth served.

When Dalmasca was forced to surrender, the empire forced their king Raminas to sign a peace treaty, making the acquisition of Dalmasca semi-legitimate. They were going to "allow" him to keep ruling. But then they framed Basch as Raminas' murderer, so that they could install a consul and seize control of the country. It was then trumpeted far and wide that Basch's deeds were dastardly to both Dalmasca and the Empire, an act of violence when the war had been resolved by terms of peace, and HE was the bad guy, not the empire! That's the justification for why Archades "executed" him (or rather, threw him into an imperial prison).

Then Basch turned out not to be dead and helped the resistance against the empire.

There is no reason why anyone in Archades would trust him.

 

[Terra Branford]

Gabranth asks Basch to take care of Larsa because he's going to die, but their discussion which I alluded to is a little more specific. Gabranth describes the unstable state of the empire and that it's liable to plunge into civil war, and Larsa's the only thing that can keep that from happening. So it's for the sake of Ivalice, not just for Gabranth, that Basch is serving Larsa.

But because the Empire is unstable (someone could try to have Larsa killed) Noah asks Basch to protect him and serve him. I never said it was just for Gabranth, just that he asked his twin brother to fill in for him.

Nope. The political mess in this game is most of the story, and it's hard to keep it all straight, isn't it? Gabranth/Noah and Basch were from another country conquered by the empire. They're from Landis.

Yes, they are from Landis, which is part of the Empire of Arcades (did I spell it right?). [Think of it like how Australia and France and all the other countries constantly took others and made it their own at certain parts through out history.] So, technically, Basch fled his homeland where he grew up with his brother and parents and went to serve under Dalmascus.

Noah/Gabranth sided with the conquerers, and somehow seems to have self-justified that to himself as being on the side of right. Basch fled (perhaps before Landis fell?), joined the neighboring Kingdom of Dalmasca, rose up through the ranks of their knights and fought against the empire Gabranth served.

It was still their home land and Noah believed that his twin should have stayed and protected their land, not a strange land to which he was never born from. Basch fled when the Empire attacked Landis, which is just a little further away from the Empire.
After fleeing, he decided to join Dalmascus' army and help them, because he believed that Dalmascus was in the right and felt like he was wronged by the Empire, that his land was wronged by the Empire. Before all of this, the Empire was a neutral city. He and many others had no idea they would turn so quickly.

When Dalmasca was forced to surrender, the empire forced their king Raminas to sign a peace treaty, making the acquisition of Dalmasca semi-legitimate. They were going to "allow" him to keep ruling. But then they framed Basch as Raminas' murderer, so that they could install a consul and seize control of the country. It was then trumpeted far and wide that Basch's deeds were dastardly to both Dalmasca and the Empire, an act of violence when the war had been resolved by terms of peace, and HE was the bad guy, not the empire! That's the justification for why Archades "executed" him (or rather, threw him into an imperial prison).

Yes, I know this. But the Empire was also hurt, maybe not the Magisters or the nobles and not even by Vayne and his followers, but the people of the Empire were tricked as well, just like Dalmascus was.

Don't you think Larsa would explain the situation to everyone? Don't you think that Larsa would them that Basch was in no wrong? That he was framed? Not to mention the fact the Empire itself saw what (at the end) Vayne was doing. He wanted to rule the world!

The Empire later finds out after Vayne's death, that it was all staged and that Larsa was meant to be the true ruler (remember when Vayne was trying to have his little brother killed because of it? Because Larsa knew the truth and posed a threat to Vayne's plans.).

Then Basch turned out not to be dead and helped the resistance against the empire.

Which turned out to be the right side to pick. The resistance turned out to be the world's help, even Archades' help.
(And Gabranth turned against -if were going this way- the Empire as well, when he helped to end Vayne.)

There is no reason why anyone in Archades would trust him.

One: Larsa trusts him. Larsa would have told them what happened, if they didn't have eyes to see what Vayne had been doing at the end.
Two: The fact that Gabranth - the one Archades' people did trust - trusted his twin brother to take his place as Larsa's boy guard.

Those are reasons Archades would trust Basch Von Rosenberg of Dalmascus/Landis.

 

[glow]

I was confused at first, i thought it was to look more noble and clean and stuff, but i eventually assumed that it as because he was taking his brothers place

 

[Terra Branford]

Huh....people, he wasn't taking his brother's place! Not once in their talk did Noah say:
"Basch....take my place and identity and protect Larsa." he said: "Basch. Look after Larsa, will you? If House Solidor should crumble, the Empire would fail, and civil war would take us all. "

Here is a image to prove he wouldn't be able to take his brother's place.

People would know its Basch because they knew Basch had the scar and not Gabranth.

And, to further prove my point.

~How is Basch? I know he went with you to Archades "to further the cause of peace in Ivalice"... but still, I hope he comes to Rabanastre, and Ashe, soon.

~Gabranth: Lose Larsa and we lose the Empire. Protect him. I would entrust him to no other's care.
Basch: I will keep him from harm. I promise you. For the Empire, and for Dalmasca.
Gabranth: Your words put me at ease, Brother. Sorry to leave you.

None of that shows he takes his brother's place, Noah just asks Basch to protect Larsa.

 

[Jacqui]

About Basch's scar- although people knew that Basch was the one with the scar, it's easy enough to explain away, by saying that he was injured, and even if some people suspected that it was Basch not Gabranth, how would they prove it?

 

[Auronlu]

All right, all right, I confess!

*wipes egg off face*

I came to FFXII fandom extremely late. I wound up reading good fanfiction by several credible authors before I finished (or even acquired) the game. I may have misunderstood one author's take on Basch's post-FFXII role.

Furthermore, I had the impression that there is evidence in FFXII: RW making this more explicit, whereas FFXII's ending simply shows that Basch has assumed his brother's position as Larsa's bodyguard. But perhaps I am equally wrong about that, not having the game script before me!

In short, to DarkClaymore: yes, I misunderstood the ending, but not for the reasons you did! I was misapplying information (or speculation) I had picked up from external sources!

I think the game's ending makes it fairly clear, though, that Basch has indeed done what he promised Gabranth he would do, taking his place.

The game does leave Balthier and Fran's fate ambiguous, since that mystery is crucial for the opening of the next game.

 

[bequiaboit]

I completely understand the ending, but I wonder why Basch didn't shave his beard? Is that supposed to be some kind of symbolism that he's still Basch and not completely like Gabranth?