Tetsuya Nomura - Your Thoughts?

[The_Oathkeeper]

I really don't see how Amano's art is preferrable to Nomura's original works. Don't get me wrong, Amano has an interesting style, to say the least, but once you take away the rose-tinted glass provided by nostalgia, you'll see that it amounts to nothing more than colored chicken-scratch (put cruelly for sake of getting my point across). It certainly isn't superior to the refined, colorful designs found in Final Fantasy 7 or 8. Don't get me wrong, here, the characters themselves are creative, but I simply don't know how Amano's art style is better than Nomura's original style.

Besides, I don't see how it's a bad thing that Nomura's style resembles anime. Back in the days of Final Fantasy 7 and 8, he was churning out some genuinely high-quality character designs. The fact that they were visibly reminiscent of anime characters certainly didn't take away from their "epicness", and I've found that those who think so are typically blinded by nostalgia. Not that that's their fault or anything...I mean, it happens to the best of us, myself included. Honestly, though, male Final Fantasy characters were always designed with Bishounen qualities in-mind. Cecil wears lipstick, uses a sword, and has white hair, for Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake! If that doesn't scream "Generic Anime Bishounen", I don't know what does. To say that Nomura started this trend is inaccurate. The only reason you didn't see it before was because Amano's art style lacked detail.

Now, I'm not trying to bash Amano or defend Nomura. However, to say that Amano's art style is superior to Nomura's simply because Nomura uses "anime" art is a bit foolish. Back before Nomura got a raging boner for Gackt and a bizarre belt/zipper fetish, he brought about a number of incredible character designs, as did Amano. It's only once Advent Children and FFX came around that Nomura decided that 12+ belts combined with leather made for a good character design. Both artists have (or, in Nomura's case, had) very distinctive styles and really brought a lot to the table when it came to RPG characters. I don't really consider either one superior to the other, simply because of how different their styles of art are, but to put Nomura down solely because he draws his characters in an anime-like style is borderline ridiculous.

Though I most certainly will not defend modern-day Nomura, who probably couldn't bring about a decent character design to save his life...*cough* Belts, zippers, and leather thrown randomly onto the body of a generic J-Rock star do not make for a good character design.

Of course, art is entirely objective...it also isn't my forte. Everything I just said has a high chance of being wrong, in fact. I'm basically just going by my personal preference, so...

 

[Rockman X]

I really don't see how Amano's art is preferrable to Nomura's original works. Don't get me wrong, Amano has an interesting style, to say the least, but once you take away the rose-tinted glass provided by nostalgia, you'll see that it amounts to nothing more than colored chicken-scratch (put cruelly for sake of getting my point across). It certainly isn't superior to the refined, colorful designs found in Final Fantasy 7 or 8. Don't get me wrong, here, the characters themselves are creative, but I simply don't know how Amano's art style is better than Nomura's original style.

That's one thing that has always puzzled me about Amano. Most of his drawings for FF games, save for a few scattered pieces, are sketchy, unrefined and look godawful sometimes. And yet, his drawings for other things (such as Vampire D and his artbooks) are amazing, fully fleshed out artwork.

Besides, I don't see how it's a bad thing that Nomura's style resembles anime. Back in the days of Final Fantasy 7 and 8, he was churning out some genuinely high-quality character designs. The fact that they were visibly reminiscent of anime characters certainly didn't take away from their "epicness", and I've found that those who think so are typically blinded by nostalgia.

It's not a bad thing persay, it's more like "not this crap again." Anime is EVERYWHERE today, in Japan, in America...it's a new trend. And Nomura's particular style is impossible to differentiate from all the countless other anime, save for his atrocious outfits (like Tidus) and belt fetishes (Squall, Lulu).

Though I most certainly will not defend modern-day Nomura, who probably couldn't bring about a decent character design to save his life...*cough* Belts, zippers, and leather thrown randomly onto the body of a generic J-Rock star do not make for a good character design.

Damn straight. It's as generic as all the stupid J-rock bands cropping up, like Alice Nine and Antic Cafe and The Gazette and SID. Try and tell them apart, you'll have a hard time. I suppose it's just him trying to cater to all the Japanese fans of J-rock and the wapanese faggots in America. Frankly I was happy with Cloud's old design, and Barret's too. Why'd he have to throw cornrows on his head?

 

[Misty]

I hated what was done with Setzer in Kingdom Hearts

-clings to FFVI Setzer- D:

 

[Grand Lethal]

@ Oathkeeper

I never meant to sound as if I thought Nomura started the bishounen theme off. I know Cecil is highly bishounen. What I meant is that, as previously said, anime is such a popular thing these days, and Nomura's designs don't really stand out from the crowd.

X-2 proved that he phails as a character designer. What the hell was he smoking when he designed those outfits?

 

[Star Beast]

Not all nomura's designs are similar, have you ever seen another cait sith or kimhari? Barret? Wakka? Lulu? Red XIII? people just pick on the few that look smilar and judge him on them not on the original ones he has created.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

@ Oathkeeper

I never meant to sound as if I thought Nomura started the bishounen theme off. I know Cecil is highly bishounen. What I meant is that, as previously said, anime is such a popular thing these days, and Nomura's designs don't really stand out from the crowd.

X-2 proved that he phails as a character designer. What the hell was he smoking when he designed those outfits?

I can agree with that. Of course, you have to remember that, at the time of Final Fantasy 7 and Final Fantasy 8, an art style visibly reminiscent of anime was highly uncommon. I'm not saying that Nomura was the first person to do it by any means, but I am saying that, back then, it was a breath of fresh-air for most JRPG fans. Nowadays, Nomura is nothing special, considering everyone and their grandmother (provided they and their grandmother develops JRPGs) has adopted that style. However, back then, it was rare to see a JRPG take after anime in terms of art, at least as far as I know. I at least think that the Tales series was doing it from the start, anyway, but other than that...

 

[Rockman X]

Not all nomura's designs are similar, have you ever seen another cait sith or kimhari? Barret? Wakka? Lulu? Red XIII? people just pick on the few that look smilar and judge him on them not on the original ones he has created.

Cait Sith was a horribly stupid-looking and useless character. Kimahri was a Chewbacca wannabe. Barret is your stereotypical angry black man. Wakka...oh jesus, I don't even know where to start on that pile of fail. Lulu's tits are bigger than Tifa's and she has too many belts in her patchwork dress. Red XIII was decent.

Now your biggest flaw in your post is that little word "few." Let me correct you, if I may. Nomura's unique designs are the ones that are few, not the similar ones. Derek covered this, but I'll do it with some better pics. I'll start off with Roxas:

Now, who's this kiddo in Birth by Sleep being carried by the Zack lookalike?

He sure looks like Roxas, just with a slight change of clothes.

But nope! It's someone named "Ven." And what about this Zack lookalike?

He's not Zack, he's "Terra." Now compare to the real Zack:

They have similar hair, for starters. Zack has two shoulder pads, Terra has one and some ugly patchwork down the rest of his arm (kind of similar to Tidus's outfit). Zack has a pair of suspenders attached to some abdomen guard or w/e you want to call it. Terra has criss-crossing suspenders going underneath an ab guard. And both have gloves, although Terra's are the trendy Hot Topic kind with holes for the fingers to go through.

Now lets go to a new picture:

Is dat sum Sora with lighter hair and headphones fighting Seifer? Au contraire, the Seifer wannabe is Beat and the Sora wannabe is Neku. And holy shit! Is dis sum Seifer with a goatee I see in FF13?

Nope! That's Mr. 33cm Now just for comparison's sake, lets have the real Seifer. First from FF8:

And the KH2 Seifer who's pimp-driving his invisible caddy:

Now you try to tell me that Nomura's designs aren't fucking similar. I dares ya. But be warned, I didn't even cover everything. I could have mentioned Lighting = Cloud and that Kairi lookalike in Birth by Sleep.

 

[Miss Valentine]

And the KH2 Seifer who's pimp-driving his invisible caddy:

I Lol'd at that

You're absolutely right, there's just too many clones!!! Squenix is pretty bad for self-plagiarism anyway, it practically rapes itself with it, but Nomura has to be the biggest culprit. Whilst I do like the anime style he has, and I admit I do personally appreciate a good anime character, it is getting a bit silly. And do show us the Cloud = Lightning please I want to see!!!!

 

[Rockman X]

And do show us the Cloud = Lightning please I want to see!!!!

As you wish:

How pathetic is that? He used the same face model. And I might as well go ahead and do the rest of this. Here's Kairi:

And now...is dat sum Kairi I see in horrible new clothes with a new haircut?

Nope, that's "Shiki" in The World Ends with You. And I'd just like to take a moment to point out how UGLY her outfit is. The hat is ugly and bulky and ffs, she's wearing a FANNY PACK. Nobody does that but recluse moms who scavenge at yard sales! The colors are pretty drab and unattractive too :/

And now, here we have Namine:

And OMG is dat sum Namine in new clothes with even SMALLER (read: nonexistent) breasts?

Nope, it's Rhyme. So let's see, we have another stupid Seifer beanie cap, pants with some pointless straps on the side (likely substitutes for the belt fetish) and some more Sora/Mickey Mouse shoes. Has anyone noticed that since KH Nomura has developed an obsession for giant feet?

 

[Star Beast]

My point was that not all his designs look the same, yes I have to admit that a lot of his designs are similar but why does everyone care so much? everyone hates him for the most pathetic reason ever...you all complain about him and then say on other threads that Sephiroth and cloud are your favourite characters! WTF! Nomura designed the two most favourite characters and everyone hates him for it!

 

[L]

you all complain about him and then say on other threads that Sephiroth and cloud are your favourite characters! WTF!

There's much more to a character than just their physical design, y'know.

 

[Exire]

Ha, I was going to say that the complaining was getting more repetetive than Nomura's designs. I guess its already been mentioned.

Well, I'm fairly indifferent with Nomura. He's had quite decent character designs in the past, even more recent. I liked Auron's outfit, which I thought fit quite well with his personality. Nomura may possibly be getting a little carried away with the belts, but needless to say I like Lightning's look, and "the Prince" in Versus as well. The way I see it, I wouldn't be surprised if people would be uproaring in complaining no matter what. If they keep Nomura (which they most likely will) people will complain about the repetition. If they get someone new, then there are outcries about how horrible the characters look.

Maybe I enjoy the character personalities a bit more than if it looks like their wearing Prada or are wearing too many belts. I didn't mind Balthier's look, you hardly had a head to toe look at him anyway. I may very well have enjoyed his personality out of any FF character, from VII to XII. So I'd agree with Zack, its more than just the clothing.

But at least to stay on Nomura. His characters are getting pretty familiar looking, but he's also kept the same style overall. He is an artist after all, that's to be expected. Anyway, I'm not a fan of Nomura, but I don't loathe his very existence. People make it sound like he's the anti christ. It's a little ridiculous.

 

[Star Beast]

you say it's not all physical but tell me the similarities between these characters...yes they aren't similar at all. the artwork by nomura has hardly any similarities, they each look different...it's when the graphics guys make them 3-D when SOME of them start to look similar. look at the drawing of Zack by Nomura, looks a lot different than that other guy that everyone says looks the same as him

apart from the cloaks all these characters look different!



I think I've made my point.

 

[L]

you say it's not all physical but tell me the similarities between these characters...yes they aren't similar at all. the artwork by nomura has hardly any similarities, they each look different...it's when the graphics guys make them 3-D when SOME of them start to look similar. look at the drawing of Zack by Nomura, looks a lot different than that other guy that everyone says looks the same as him

You've missed the point. We're comparing past designs to newer ones, not old designs to old ones. That would competely defeat the purpose of bitching about it.

Also, how can you say Terra doesn't look like Zack when he clearly does?

http://www.khextreme.co.uk/khbirthbysleep/images/scans/KHBBS_Scan_001.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6532/zackcutoutez6.png

 

[Star Beast]

the only similarities between Terra and zack is the hair, if they had different hair they would look completely different. And I wasn't comparing old designs to old designs, I was just showing images of random characters i found on the internet that had no similarities at all. anyway I'm not going to post on this subject anymore after this, It's a pathetic waste of time and everyone here who thinks every single one of his designs are the same needs their eyes tested. Hair doesn't make the full design (thats the only similarity I see between any of them!)

also why complain and moan about great games! get a life!

 

[L]

the only similarities between Terra and zack is the hair, if they had different hair they would look completely different.

Did you even look at Zack and Terra's faces from those links? You'd have to be in complete denial to say that they aren't.

Hair doesn't make the full design (thats the only similarity I see between any of them!)

*****, plz.

Ven looks exactly identical to Roxas.
Lighting is Cloud on Estrogen pills.
The new female character recently shown with no name looks just like Tifa in CG animation, kthx.
For Seifer, there's a large fucking string of his facial aspect and his clothing aspect of his design, recently posted by Shadow Storm.
Axel = Reno with slicked back hair in a cloak with emo tears painted on his face.
Shiki is Kairi in funky ass clothes.
Neko is Sora with orange hair and headphones.
Rhyme is Namine with breast reduction.
Scatboy is Gippal. See post #19 for details.

if you'd like a recap, here we go:

ZOMG CLOUD ON ESTROGEN PILLZ, EGADZ!

Kairi = Shiki

Beat and Neko who look like ripoff KH designs of Seifer and Sora.

Namine with Breast Reduction.

anyway I'm not going to post on this subject anymore after this, It's a pathetic waste of time and everyone here who thinks every single one of his designs are the same needs their eyes tested

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

also why complain and moan about great games! get a life!

Yes, we have no life because we're bitching about character designs. We're the customers, we'll bitch about what we like.

...

or in this case, dislike.

 

[Rockman X]

But at least to stay on Nomura. His characters are getting pretty familiar looking, but he's also kept the same style overall. He is an artist after all, that's to be expected.

No, he is not an artist. He makes texbook art. That's what anime is. Even people who suck at drawing can pick up a How to Draw Anime for Dummies book and be drawing shit like Nomura's within a couple hours. That's not art. Salvidor Dali was an artist. M.C. Escher was an artist. Thomas Cole was an artist. Nomura is a lackluster textbook "artist" whose characters are indistinguishable from anything else in the world of anime and who whores out his refuse for a greedy company that's more concerned about turning a profit and finding new fans.

the only similarities between Terra and zack is the hair, if they had different hair they would look completely different.

Did you just completely ignore my post on purpose, because I don't believe there is any way in hell you could be that blind. I'll do you a favor and repost half of it.

Now, who's this kiddo in Birth by Sleep being carried by the Zack lookalike?

He sure looks like Roxas, just with a slight change of clothes.

But nope! It's someone named "Ven." And what about this Zack lookalike?

He's not Zack, he's "Terra." Now compare to the real Zack:

They have similar hair, for starters. Zack has two shoulder pads, Terra has one and some ugly patchwork down the rest of his arm (kind of similar to Tidus's outfit). Zack has a pair of suspenders attached to some abdomen guard or w/e you want to call it. Terra has criss-crossing suspenders going underneath an ab guard. And both have gloves, although Terra's are the trendy Hot Topic kind with holes for the fingers to go through.

Now, please do read it this time, then come back and tell me they aren't fucking similar.

And I wasn't comparing old designs to old designs, I was just showing images of random characters i found on the internet that had no similarities at all.

Yes you were You were posting shit from VII and VIII. We're talking about Nomura NOW. How ever since KH his designs have been getting more and more similar. He can't come up with anything new, all he does is change the hair color, sometimes the hair style, and change the clothes a bit.

anyway I'm not going to post on this subject anymore after this, It's a pathetic waste of time and everyone here who thinks every single one of his designs are the same needs their eyes tested. Hair doesn't make the full design (thats the only similarity I see between any of them!)

Olawl, you're a funny kiddo. If hair is the only similarity you can see then it's YOU who needs an eye checkup.

also why complain and moan about great games! get a life!

They're selling us the damn games, we'll bitch and moan about them if we like. Like Derek said, we're the paying customers, after all. And who said all the games were great in the first place? I could argue that one

 

[Kamoku-Ai]

Everything I want to say has been said xD but I'll post my 2 cents anyway....

Nomura's designs used to be ground-breaking. Characters like Red XIII, Sephiroth, Vincent, Zell are cool! But he just shoots himself in the foot by repeating his own designs. Storm Shadow, the pictures you posted say it all. It's getting stupid. The rip-off Kingdom Hearts characters and Seifer wannabe makes me think that he's not even trying to come up with something new. The man is either fresh-out of ideas or he's damn lazy. He's even admitted that Axel from KH2 was based on Reno. And as much as I love the look of the guys in FF7AC, stop the Gackt loving!

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Well I was going to post up the picture I made for the XIII thread but a certain somebody beat me to it

Anyway, I would have said Nomura was an amazing character designer...10 years ago, apart from that half his characters are depressive, ie, Axel and the tear drops on his face

Secondly, not only do most of the characters look similar in one way or another, why do nearly every one of them (if not all) have names related to weather...for 10 years. He could at least be creative...and at one point he mentioned about having a character similar to his own.

I know I have something else to add I just don't know what

 

[Okami]

Did nomura design the characters for XIII as well as versusXIII? versusXIII certainly has nomura's tired signature style, but he does seem to be branching out a little for XIII (even if he is the lead character designer).

however, it looks like that only the character designs from KH and FVII and it's compilation are the only games that are fueling this debate (slightly contradicting myself from the tired signature opinion). Look closer and you see something else in his designs for X, (someone correct here, Nomura has been lead designer for ALL FF games since VII, yes?) and in other FF projects.


There's no doubting that Nomura CAN design. Maybe SE needs to look beyond their popular culture in terms of designing characters. Locales and legend are all sorted since they set each game utilising influences from different cultures. However, the current characters only seem to be designed to fuel a fanbase. A character only becomes likable if his personality outshines his looks.