Spinoffs: Canon or Non-Canon

Aztec Triogal

Aztec Triogal

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As you may know, it is my personal belief is that the original game is a stand alone title and that any spinoffs or outside references to that game are non-canon.

In other words, while I am alright with characters of a particular IP being used in multiple games... I see Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus about as canon as when Cloud showed up in Ivalice during Tactics. To me, nothing created after the original game can have any effect on the original game. This includes those damn books for FFVII that Clerith people always cite. What are your thoughts?
 
I guess I agree with you, as much as they may have been made by squenix, I just dont think in my eyes they are canon, especially with prequels, I mean, I love Crisis Core, I thought it was a lovely game, but everything about it was just taken from VII then had a load of random shit added to it that just isnt in VII at all (cissnei, Genesis, angeal, Hollander...etc etc). And like, Zack falling though the church roof, is that really what Square had in mind when they made VII or did Zack & Aerith meet in a totally different way according to the original team, I think they only did that and the whole ' date' thing just to make it tie in with VII even more than it already did do

Just my opinion, but if it came to it, I wouldn't include ANY spin off as canon, beacuae well, to me it just isn't to me -shrugs-
 
I agree also there are some remakes that are also off kaiser with adding stuff that goes against the original.
EX. Tactics.
 
Spin-offs = Non-canon to me with the exception of FFX-2. For confiming the fact that Tidus is GONE.
 
Um...spin-offs, yeah, I can see those not being canon...but if they're sequels or prequels, then, yeah, I'm sorry, however good or bad they may be, they's canon unless somehow retconned by a later prequel, sequel or remake.
 
See, I just find it very difficult to buy that any outside content can be retroactively applied to the original. Why? Because any related material made post-game is either going to be by a completely different development crew or the same development crew years after they finished production with the project. There is no way they can carry on the true essence of the game years after it has finished production.

On a sidenote, it's one of the things I love about Valve. They actually do voice recordings to capture their thoughts and feelings mid-production and include them in the final product so you can understand their intents with the project and really get a sense for how a successful developer's mind works.
 
Aztec Triogal said:
On a sidenote, it's one of the things I love about Valve. They actually do voice recordings to capture their thoughts and feelings mid-production and include them in the final product so you can understand their intents with the project and really get a sense for how a successful developer's mind works.
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xD I love how you mentioned that because that's also something I'd like included in the games I work on when I'm in the game development biz. Like a vocal commentary on the games and their development/design process. It lets you know the developers really care about their games' content and aren't going COMPLETELY bats**t insane.
 
Whether you like the material or not, it is cannon. Since being cannon is decided by the creator and not the fans. You can choose to ignore these materials, but in the end if the developer puts a list of games on one timeline and said this is a specific universe and history... well there is nothing to be done.

And by the way, the books the OP mentioned are not stated to be cannon (if I remember correctly) just as Last Order is now super-ceded by Crisis Core and officially labeled as non-cannon.
 
Whether you like the material or not, it is cannon. Since being cannon is decided by the creator and not the fans. You can choose to ignore these materials, but in the end if the developer puts a list of games on one timeline and said this is a specific universe and history... well there is nothing to be done.
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I agree ^.^

I know a lot of people don't like spinoffs (Compilation of FF7 for example), but they are indeed cannon, and I see them as such. I for one don't mind them because they flesh out the original story and help make it better, with the exception of X-2. What it all comes down to though is that it's what the creators say happened, so you can't really argue against it. They know the characters and storylines better than anyone else. As Platinum_Lies said though, you can choose to ignore the materials if you don't like them, but that doesn't change the fact that they're canon.
 
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Same universe sequels and prequels are as canon as you can get. The Compilation of VII and FF IV The After all happen in the same continuity and are officially a part of the universe.

The only non canon occurences are things like the FF characters having cameos in the Kingdom Hearts series or little cameos like Cloud in Tactics. The FF characters in KH aren't the same as the actual in universe characters, and as such have no bearing on canon for that series.
 
Well, I always thought the spinoffs has got something in relation to the main storyline, meaning I thought it was 'Canon'.

I mean, if its in the same universe, i believed it was either in the past before the story, which might have contributed to the story in the main game itself... Or if its in the future, than the events of the game might have influenced the spinoff somewhat...
 
Canon, in terms of a fictional universe, is any material that is considered to be "genuine", or can be directly referenced as material produced by the original author or creator of a series.

The very definition of canon indeed dictates that any retroactive additions are indeed so. Canon is not a personal judgement, made up by the fans, it is entirely up to the creator(s). A big example would be the original Star Wars trilogy - despite what fans may prefer, the changes in the latest DVD are indeed the canon version of the story. Also, the Marvel/DC universes have ever-changing canon, and and abundant of retcons. Sometimes the changes really suck, but I like to think of it as a continuous writing process - as a story keeps development, there would obviously be some changes along the way. Disney sequels are canon, despite sucking.

Another case where the original work is not considered the canon is with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The original movie (made in 1992) is NOT the canon story. The TV series is the canon Buffy. The Buffy Movie is retconned by the series, written by the movie's creator Joss Whedon.

There are rare exceptions where the authors word does not alter the canon of the books. The only case scenario I can think of is of JK Rowling's post-publication interviews on Harry Potter. Generally, information not included in the books don't fit into the canon of the books. Until this information is published in the encyclopedia she plans to write, or maybe even re-published edits of previous books, this fact does not fit into the definition of canon. I'm not sure if the Dumbledore is gay fiasco fits into this (I believe she claimed it was her actual intent, I suspect it was more of a publicity stunt). However, certain pieces of information regarding characters such as Dean Thomas, Neville and Seamus Finnigan aren't actually "canon" unlessed officially published (possibly in an encyclopedia).

So... whether you like it or not, Advent Children, Crisis Core, Before Crisis, Dirge of Cerberus and the On the Way to a Smile novellas are all part of the FF7 canon. Same with FFX-2, FFIV:The After, the new Parasite Eve game, the whole Devil May Cry series, the new Kingdom Hearts games etc... all canon to their respective series.

Things that don't take place within the storyline's timeline (Kingdom Hearts with the Final Fantasy/Disney characters, Dissidia, FFTactics, Itadaki Street Special, Ehrgeiz etc.) are not in the canon as they are alternate universes/hypothetic scenarios etc. Thus, they have no bearing on the original story's timeline whatsoever.
 
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That definition does not necessarily fit though, as many developers create content that they classify as non-canon. The truth of the matter is that none of the content is actually ever "real" so it's all perspective and one person or body can never be the authority of the content's validity. It's subjective. It has to be because it's not factual content. So that's why I'm asking what people's opinions are...
 
If the intent was to make it non-canon, then that's that. What you said applies to things like Dissidia or Kingdom Hearts, where the events don't necessarily apply to the original stories despite having the same characters/worlds. However, Advent Children for example isn't just some hypothetic scenario that happens after the end of FF7, it is a direct continuation of the story made by the core team involved with the orignal FF7. It is the canon. If you were going to discuss and analyze the world of FF7, you have to take in the entire canon (not just the original game) into account. Otherwise, your opinion may be deemed invalid based on information from a canon source you have not considered.

The Final Mix versions of the Kingdom Hearts games are also retroactive additions. however the Final Mix versions supercede the canon of the originals. The Kingdom Hearts manga also have retroactive additions to the series, but these were done by a third party, not by the will of the actual creators. This makes them non-canon. Any new Kingdom Hearts game can directly contradict information expressed in the manga and it wouldn't matter, because the manga was never canon in the first place.

So no, this isn't really a perspective thing. It's not our worlds to control, the creators have full authority over it. We may have our own specific perspective on said world, but in the end they are the gods over what they create. Fans like to think they 'know' the stories better than the creators do, but at the end of the day their word >>> ours.

So, if the intention by the creator(s) was to make it non-canon, then it is to be treated as such. Otherwise, published retroactive sequels/prequels are canon. If you're going to discuss the entire Star Wars series without seeing the New Trilogy, your opinion would be less informed because it doesn't take in the full canon of the world.
 
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