Setting the Record Straight

[Rockman X]

This is sure to set off alot of Sephiroth fanboys, but oh well. I'm gonna state my reasons as to why (in my opinion) Kuja is a MUCH better villain than Sephiroth (Beware of spoilers, btw). Feel free to disagree with me, just please give an argument that's more in depth than "kuja is gay!" I'm so sick of all the idiots out there who hate Kuja simply because he looks like a girl. So now, onto the reasons! I'm gonna list these out like a compare/contrast essay outline so it'll be easy to read.

Sephiroth:
1. He's a one-dimensional character. All through the game it is simply his stoic personality and obsession with his mother.
2. Sephi burns down some towns, kills some people, gets a cult to follow him
3. Sephi wants to destroy humanity and reclaim the earth for his mother
4. Summoned a giant meteor to decimate the planet

Kuja:
1. He's a multi-dimensional character. Throughout the game we learn more about his motives, past, and relation to Zidane and Garnet, and his personality even goes through changes, especially at the end of the game.
2. Kuja corrupts a once-loving queen, manipulates her into destroying the surrounding kingdoms, kills the queen once he's used her sufficiently
3. Kuja wants to destroy all of existence, including himself
4. Blew up his home planet with his own power, didnt even need a meteor

So there ya have it, my reasons why Kuja is better. I might be forgetting a couple reasons, but my brain is kind of dead so this is all i can remember. And remember, if you want to argue against me, please give a better argument than "kuja looks like a girl!"

Oh and btw, to all those who say Kuja is gay...um...seems to me that throughout the game he had a thing for Garnet.

 

[Ryker]

I'll have to give you props for having the gall to go against the swell of Sephi-fanboys. That's pretty daring.

2. Sephi burns down some towns, kills some people, gets a cult to follow him

Except the "cult" was merely his clones seeking to have a Reunion with Jenova.

 

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

^Agreed. Sephiroth didn't ask to have said cult follow him. It was merely a bunch of clones who followed him for the Reunion.

3. Kuja wants to destroy all of existence, including himself

Not neccessarily true. Kuja only wanted to destroy himself when he learned that he would inevitably die one day. His ultimate goal never included his own destruction.

 

[Sephirothalpha]

Kuja is a good character, but I like Sephiroth better. I love how he was a legend and then finally turned evil. I would love to have seen more of Sephiroth when he was involved with Shinra, his personality, what he was like when he was good.

 

[Saix]

Not neccessarily true. Kuja only wanted to destroy himself when he learned that he would inevitably die one day. His ultimate goal never included his own destruction.

Only applicable during the final moments of his Trance form, though. He intended on living forever, as stated in Terra.



Good thread. I appreciate the dedication and persistence he develops towards his own goals; carrying them out until the very end. I find it distasteful how people can't recognize how incredibly accomplished he was as a villain, ESPECIALLY in comparison to Sephiroth.

4. Blew up his home planet with his own power, didnt even need a meteor

There's some debate as to whether that was Terra or not, but regardless of such, he still obliterated it completely. Something Sephiroth was never shown to be capable of. Unless of course he wanted to cut everything to pieces over a lengthy period of time.

 

[Rockman X]

^Agreed. Sephiroth didn't ask to have said cult follow him. It was merely a bunch of clones who followed him for the Reunion.


Not neccessarily true. Kuja only wanted to destroy himself when he learned that he would inevitably die one day. His ultimate goal never included his own destruction.
[/color]

Clones or not, they still seemed pretty cultish to me. Nor did they seem to display any of Sephi's malice or power.

True, his ultimate goal didnt include killing himself. But once he found out he was going to expire, rather than being despondent, he was able to see the irony in the situation and decided to take everything out with him since he thought it was unfair for existence to continue without him. It takes a pretty stable (albeit narcissistic) mind to not just crack once you find out you're gonna die soon.

Only applicable during the final moments of his Trance form, though. He intended on living forever, as stated in Terra.



Good thread. I appreciate the dedication and persistence he develops towards his own goals; carrying them out until the very end. I find it distasteful how people can't recognize how incredibly accomplished he was as a villain, ESPECIALLY in comparison to Sephiroth.



There's some debate as to whether that was Terra or not, but regardless of such, he still obliterated it completely. Something Sephiroth was never shown to be capable of. Unless of course he wanted to cut everything to pieces over a lengthy period of time.

There's...actually a debate over whether it's Terra or not? o__O wtf, I thought the FMV made it pretty friggin clear that it was Terra since the look of the place is exactly same.

As for Sephi destroying the planet...haha, yeah he'd probably just slice it into pieces over the course of several decades. Either that or he'd just summon an assload of meteors. Either way he never displayed the raw Trance power that Kuja had. He just had a big sword and some spells, and was weaker than Cloud in the end.

That's another thing that can be said for Kuja: he was actually stronger than your party, because in the end, he just blows the crap out of you. It took the Iifa Tree to kill the guy.

 

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Sephiroth was stronger than Cloud, and SE have officially announced that.

I still think Kuja was a more complete villain than Sephiroth though. He had a better thought out plan and actually had the power to go right through with it. In the end it was only the words of Garland that affected his plan and changed it.

 

[Rockman X]

Sephiroth was stronger than Cloud, and SE have officially announced that.

I still think Kuja was a more complete villain than Sephiroth though. He had a better thought out plan and actually had the power to go right through with it. In the end it was only the words of Garland that affected his plan and changed it.

He mighta been stronger but he still got defeated in the end, so to me...that says he's weaker *shrug* Kuja just blew everyone up with ultima.

I really woulda liked to see what would have happened to the world if Garland hadnt interfered with Kuja...

 

[Saix]

He mighta been stronger but he still got defeated in the end, so to me...that says he's weaker *shrug* Kuja just blew everyone up with ultima.

Sephiroth's only weakness -sheerly in my own opinion- was his arrogance. This led to his defeat in AC, and quite possibly in FFVII too. He knew he could easily wipe the floor with Cloud and his entire party, but decided to play around. I'm somewhat disappointed and shocked that people have actually formulated a worshipping religion around someone who was blatantly up their own arse.

I really woulda liked to see what would have happened to the world if Garland hadnt interfered with Kuja...

My best guess it that Kuja would've continued to wipe out all the military super-powers that remained (of what little there were...), and carried out his plan henceforth. He still would've ultimately died, and the assimilation still would have taken place, so the same result would have occurred... just later on.

 

[Grand Lethal]

My best guess it that Kuja would've continued to wipe out all the military super-powers that remained (of what little there were...), and carried out his plan henceforth. He still would've ultimately died, and the assimilation still would have taken place, so the same result would have occurred... just later on.

Apart from the ambush FMV outside of Memoria, could you imagine a full blown war with Kuja and his Silver Dragon army and the Airships of Lindblum, the Hilda Garde III and the Red Rose? ... Pwnage.

 

[Rockman X]

Sephiroth's only weakness -sheerly in my own opinion- was his arrogance. This led to his defeat in AC, and quite possibly in FFVII too. He knew he could easily wipe the floor with Cloud and his entire party, but decided to play around. I'm somewhat disappointed and shocked that people have actually formulated a worshipping religion around someone who was blatantly up their own arse.

There's a religion for sephi? Wow...

Actually, Kuja was pretty bloody arrogant too, but that didnt lead him to his downfall. I think he was smarter than Sephi in carrying out his plan, he was cunning and subtle, gradually corrupting Brahne to manipulate her into starting a war. I'm not sure if Sephi would have been able to do that, seems like he just preferred to set fire to things and slice them up.

Apart from the ambush FMV outside of Memoria, could you imagine a full blown war with Kuja and his Silver Dragon army and the Airships of Lindblum, the Hilda Garde III and the Red Rose? ... Pwnage.

Ooooh, that would have made for one spectacular FMV.

 

[Saix]

There's a religion for sephi? Wow...

It's called Sephyism. It's absolutely pathetic.

Actually, Kuja was pretty bloody arrogant too, but that didnt lead him to his downfall. I think he was smarter than Sephi in carrying out his plan, he was cunning and subtle, gradually corrupting Brahne to manipulate her into starting a war. I'm not sure if Sephi would have been able to do that, seems like he just preferred to set fire to things and slice them up.

Exactly. Kuja was indeed arrogant to an extent, but not to the point where he'd miss the chance to kill his adversary, much unlike Sephiroth. Both had the capability of annihilating their direct foe, but only Kuja used that ability... with oddly little effect, it seems.

 

[Rockman X]

It's called Sephyism. It's absolutely pathetic.


Exactly. Kuja was indeed arrogant to an extent, but not to the point where he'd miss the chance to kill his adversary, much unlike Sephiroth. Both had the capability of annihilating their direct foe, but only Kuja used that ability... with oddly little effect, it seems.

*googles it*

Wow......thats......so far beyond pathetic. I found the LJ for it and someone actually wrote a prayer for him. God...

Yeah, sephiroth did play around too much. Kuja did his fair share too, but he never let it distract him. He never changed his plan till he found out he was going to die.

 

[YF-23]

Kuja:
1. He's a multi-dimensional character. Throughout the game we learn more about his motives, past, and relation to Zidane and Garnet, and his personality even goes through changes, especially at the end of the game.
2. Kuja corrupts a once-loving queen, manipulates her into destroying the surrounding kingdoms, kills the queen once he's used her sufficiently
3. Kuja wants to destroy all of existence, including himself
4. Blew up his home planet with his own power, didnt even need a meteor

Don't forget that he nearly caused triple genocide; The Burmecians, the Black Mages (not exactly the case in this one, he just discarded them after they didn't have any more use), and the Genomes. The Summoners could also fit there, but I don't remember if Garland or Kuja destroyed Madain Sari.

 

[Edward Elric]

haha sephyism? don't people have anything better to do with their life except worship a bunch of pixels?

 

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Don't forget that he nearly caused triple genocide; The Burmecians, the Black Mages (not exactly the case in this one, he just discarded them after they didn't have any more use), and the Genomes. The Summoners could also fit there, but I don't remember if Garland or Kuja destroyed Madain Sari.

Garland destroyed Madain Sari. Kuja didn't get control of The Invincible until later on in the game.

haha sephyism? don't people have anything better to do with their life except worship a bunch of pixels?

Apparently not.

 

[Rockman X]

Don't forget that he nearly caused triple genocide; The Burmecians, the Black Mages (not exactly the case in this one, he just discarded them after they didn't have any more use), and the Genomes. The Summoners could also fit there, but I don't remember if Garland or Kuja destroyed Madain Sari.

Can we count the Cleyrans in there too? Cuz it's thanks to Kuja that Brahne destroyed Cleyra, and i dont think there were many survivors.

 

[YF-23]

Can we count the Cleyrans in there too? Cuz it's thanks to Kuja that Brahne destroyed Cleyra, and i dont think there were many survivors.

Well, I put the Cleyrans along with the Burmecians, since they are the same race. Killing the Burmecians and Cleyrans is genocide, not double genocide. Cleyra was a settlement, but it seemed that the whole area was the Kindgom of Burmecia, with the capital and the nation having the same name.

 

[leftshoe]

Very well said! I have been saying for a while that Sephiroth was a sub-standard villain and completely inferior (in both depth and battle difficulty) when compared to Kuja. For starters, let's compare the final Sephiroth to Trance Kuja. I am not going to compare "bizzaro" Sephiroth to anything, as that fight was ridiculously easy and almost a waste of disc space.

So, let's compare (SS will be Safer-Sephiroth, TK will be Trance Kuja). For starters, it's hard to gauge how much HP SS really has. To the best of my memory, it's roughly 60,000. This would be the only point in which SS will beat TK, as TK's HP is something around 55,000. However, he is something that a lot of people do not know...SS's gigantic summon spell, "Super Nova", can not annihilate your party because it is percentage based. This means that if you waltz into the battle with characters under level 60, you will not get destroyed. TK, on the other hand, has an entire arsenal of attacks that can annihilate a poorly prepared party in one go. His Flare and Holy attacks can strike down a weaker character in one or two usages. His Flare Star ability hits the entire party, and as I learned the hard way, can be lethal if you're ill prepared. Not to mention that TK is quite speedy and at times can cast Flare Star twice before you get to attack him again. All of that, plus he has a nasty habit of casting reflect on himself and bouncing spells back at you for extra damage. Finally, he has a curaga spell...but he doesn't use it very liberally. Now, let us look at SS. As we pointed out, his strongest spell is percentage base...so that already makes this fight manageable, not to mention that he can only do it once. So, what are his other attacks? He has a decent Shadow Flare ability, but it can easily be countered with a fast cure spell. His real strength however, lies in his ability to inflict multiple-status effects on all three of your characters simultaneously. However, if you're like me, you've already picked up the one ribbon the game gives you and morphed two Tonberries. This not only means that you won't have to worry about it, but you'll get plenty of tries to attack SS as he'll continuously cast his status spell (I forget what it's called). One advantage that SS has over TK, is that SS has a physical attack that can be used twice in a row, however it's very weak and usually not a problem. SS also cast Wall at the beginning, but if you have a dispel spell handy, it's gone for the entire fight. Finally, SS has an attack called Deen that does about the same amount of damage as his physical attack.

Verdict? If it came down to a fight between the two, SS would get wasted quickly. I beat SS in one try, about 8 minutes. It took me at least 13 tries to beat TK, and a long time per try.

Plus, Kuja is dead sexy, deep, and intelligent. Sephiroth, on the other hand looks like a cross between David Lee Roth and that old wizard from Lord of the Rings, and has a weird obsession with his mom.

 

[Rockman X]

Well, I put the Cleyrans along with the Burmecians, since they are the same race. Killing the Burmecians and Cleyrans is genocide, not double genocide. Cleyra was a settlement, but it seemed that the whole area was the Kindgom of Burmecia, with the capital and the nation having the same name.

Ah, okay then ^^ But yeah...it would definitely count as genocide, cuz how many survivors were there? That one family you save in burmecia that has a few kids...i think thats it. So it's up to them, sir fratley, and freya to repopulate the race.