Relation...

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AmethystRoses

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This is an odd happening. It is alot like Gogo being in Final Fantasy V AND VI, but not in any other.

I think Final Fantasy II And Final Fantasy IV can be related.

As in.. Kain is a young boy in Final Fantasy II, is a Dragoon
the only Dragoon left after Ricard dies
(Kind of, as he had not had proper training due to the fact that his father had died and with him the last of the Dragoons
as far as the people who don't hover over the spoilers know at least...
. And in Final Fantasy IV, Kain is an adult Dragoon who's father died.. making him the last Dragoon. Even though in II
it was his... uncle, I think. Either uncle or a completely unrelated Dragoon. I could have sworn he said uncle though.
his father would still technically be... dead.

The only thing that keeps me from believing that they are the same Kain is... In Final Fantasy IV, Kain says that his father taught him everything about bein a Dragoon. In II, he did not have the chance. Although, it could just be Kain's way of keeping his father's memory alive. Or to keep his integrety as a Dragoon...

As to how he learned the ways of the Dragoon... he could have read books. I am sure that Dragoons can read. And that there were books pertaining to a time before the Dragoons were killed off.

Anyway, my point is... what do you guys think? Do you think the two worlds of Final Fantasy II and FInal Fantasy IV are related through him? Do you think that he is the same Kain?
 
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It is a very interesting theory to be sure. I played the NES and SNES versions, respectively, and I do not think that Richard's son was named Kain in II NES. However, both are Highwinds, and II and IV are similar in many ways thematically: Namely they involve a runaway kingdom ruled by a relentless despot bent on total conquest. Of course, Square intended that each universe be closed, but I think that the parallels are more than mere coincidence.

D4D
 
They can't. It's impossible. Entire Kingdoms that have been around for generations would have had to have popped up suddenly within 15-25 years maybe from Kain being a kid to an adult, while the current ones just vanish off the face of the earth as the planets surface completely changes. Plus, there was no mention at all of the crystals and the moon. And again, it'd have to be over the course of 15 - 25 years or so. :monster:
 
The world would have to change., alot in a very short period of time.

Cecil's father helped the FFIV world by adding the Seperent's trench and Mt Ordeals. In the FFII there is no mention of that at all.

Some random strange villian would have to appear while Kain is a child, destory and mess up the FF2 world, and then while Kain is a teenager the FF2 world changes into the FF4 world...

It could be possible that Maria is Rosa's Grandmother, Rosa wields a Bow and arrow weapon like Maria does. We never learn the name of the Grandmother.

And it is possible that during Kain's teenaged years that they learn about Cecil's father and the legend of the Mt. Ordeals and the moon.

But there is more than one Fred Smith in this world, it could be possible that there could be two different Kain Highwinds :P
 
Firionie said:
The world would have to change., alot in a very short period of time.

Cecil's father helped the FFIV world by adding the Seperent's trench and Mt Ordeals. In the FFII there is no mention of that at all.

Some random strange villian would have to appear while Kain is a child, destory and mess up the FF2 world, and then while Kain is a teenager the FF2 world changes into the FF4 world...

It could be possible that Maria is Rosa's Grandmother, Rosa wields a Bow and arrow weapon like Maria does. We never learn the name of the Grandmother.

And it is possible that during Kain's teenaged years that they learn about Cecil's father and the legend of the Mt. Ordeals and the moon.

But there is more than one Fred Smith in this world, it could be possible that there could be two different Kain Highwinds :P
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Don't forget that (I'm pretty sure at least...) that in the orignal release of FFII, Kain wasn't even named. He was just some unnamed Dragoon kid.
 
It's only newer versions of FFII (GBA, PSP definitely. PS?..) that name the child. It's just a reference to Kain in IV, nothing more nothing less, they are not the same person. Good spotting though.
 
I haven't really played either game, but in general, I can comment and say it's just fanservice in that Square makes references to past games in the newer ones.

Like how Freya's ultimate weapon in FFIX is "Kain's Lance", the character named Shinra in FFX-2, and other things as well.
 
It's just an easter egg, the two universes are not connected in any way. The landscapes are different, the political powers are different, the technology is different, etc. Square just likes to use similar things in each of their games. Heck, in FF VII you have another Highwind who uses a lance, but we know it has no connection to II or IV.
 
Right, but I do not think that the contention is that the boy from II literally is the duplicitous Kain from IV. Final Fantasies, while separate and sacrosanct, still share many of the same theme. Trends start to develop, with certain games bearing more or less resemblance to others in the series. I think that strong parallels can be drawn between II, IV,VI; and conversely parallels exist between I,III, and V: In the former the primary threat is a evil empire that seeks to conquer the world, and in the latter the primary threat is the destruction of crystals of nature and an end villain who is something of a Deus Ex Machina.

That said, I believe that parallels exist between the boy from II and Kain from IV: The boy in II winds up fatherless, and is the last one of his kind; Kain also lacked significant direct contact with his father, and is the only Dragoon we see in that world. I am not claiming that the boy from II is Kain from IV, I merely think that the boy inspired the creation of Kain.

D4D
 
I see. Though technically not all of the FF's are unconnected. While most of them exist only in their own universe and have no connection to any other universe, the creators of FF's VII and X have confirmed that these take place in the same universe. The events of FF X happen long before the events of VII on a different planet, but around 1,000 years before the events of VII some Spirans traveled to Gaia in some kind of spaceship. This is the only exception however, other than obvious ones like Tactics Advanced and FF XII.
 
Dirges for Damcyan said:
Right, but I do not think that the contention is that the boy from II literally is the duplicitous Kain from IV. Final Fantasies, while separate and sacrosanct, still share many of the same theme. Trends start to develop, with certain games bearing more or less resemblance to others in the series. I think that strong parallels can be drawn between II, IV,VI; and conversely parallels exist between I,III, and V: In the former the primary threat is a evil empire that seeks to conquer the world, and in the latter the primary threat is the destruction of crystals of nature and an end villain who is something of a Deus Ex Machina.

That said, I believe that parallels exist between the boy from II and Kain from IV: The boy in II winds up fatherless, and is the last one of his kind; Kain also lacked significant direct contact with his father, and is the only Dragoon we see in that world. I am not claiming that the boy from II is Kain from IV, I merely think that the boy inspired the creation of Kain.

D4D
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You do know that in the original release, the Dragoon kid Kain wasn't even named. :monster:
And I'll say it again: Entire kingdoms that have been around for generations would have to have popped up overnight in between the kid's Childhood and Adulthood, as well as the entire surface of Earth changing completely, with currently existing kingdoms vanishing into thin air. Not to mention in FF II, there are no crystals. If they were the same universe, the crystals would have played a big part. :monster:
 
Yes, I do realize that the boy was unnamed in II: I said as much in my original post. I agree with you that they are not in the same universe; what I intend to convey is that they represent the same archetypal progression: The heroic Richard births the young boy and abandons him. Were this story continued we would see the young boy struggle with attendant identity crisis, seek to follow in his fathers footsteps but reject certain elements. We would see a flirtation with darkness and an ultimate return to the light; summarily we would see much of what we see with Kain in IV. I do not intend to suggest that they are the same character or part of the same universe; rather Kain in IV is the archetypal conclusion to the boy in II: It is very much a Hero of a Thousand Faces type scenario.

D4D

P.S. I see you are from Washington; Yay for the Pacific Northwest
 
Dirges for Damcyan said:
Yes, I do realize that the boy was unnamed in II: I said as much in my original post. I agree with you that they are not in the same universe; what I intend to convey is that they represent the same archetypal progression: The heroic Richard births the young boy and abandons him. Were this story continued we would see the young boy struggle with attendant identity crisis, seek to follow in his fathers footsteps but reject certain elements. We would see a flirtation with darkness and an ultimate return to the light; summarily we would see much of what we see with Kain in IV. I do not intend to suggest that they are the same character or part of the same universe; rather Kain in IV is the archetypal conclusion to the boy in II: It is very much a Hero of a Thousand Faces type scenario.

D4D

P.S. I see you are from Washington; Yay for the Pacific Northwest
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Ooohhh. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you were suggesting they are. But I guess you were just comparing them, right? Like, FFIV Kain is probably what FF II Kain would grow up to be?

P.S. Go WSU =D
 
That is indeed what I suggest. Granted it is open for interpretation, but hey, speculation is why I joined. Kinda fun to think what could have been but for those limited NES cartridges. :)

D4D

P.S. Go Ducks! Hey, You're a Cougar, I'm a Duck; we both agree, the Huskies Suck!
 
FF Info you might want to see.....

Ok. Im new here but i have some info most of you might know.


On FF2 (gba, psp) you meet a dragoon named Ricard Highwind. Before that though, you go to Diest, home of the Dragoons. You meet a young boy.... named Kain, who wants to be a dragoon. Ricard was a friend of Kain's father.

On FF4 DS, after you defeat the CPU, Golbez becomes free of his link with Zemus. After the cutscene of him as a young boy, it will show a cutscene of Cecil's childhood. He meets a young boy.... named Kain Highwind, whose father's name was.... Ricard.

Do you sense any correlation between these 2 games, like they might be the same place, but years apart?

Think about it.

~Rjk93 :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Oddly enough, we already have a topic on this, Threads Merged ^^;
 
But still! You have to think about it though. I mean, they only mention Kain's last name in FF4 DS, and the fact that there was a DRAGOON's child named KAIN in both of the games. I dont think Sq-Ex would seriously do that unless there was some sort of underlying secret to the Final Fantasy series and how they are related. There would be no point! How many other games have had similar things with the same name (not including weapons, armor, items, etc.)? Who knows? It may be like the Zelda series, with all characters being ancestors of the original ones, all taking place hundreds of years from then!

Think about this: most of the games usually include orphans, crystals, and the Warriors of Light. those games MUST be correlated somehow because I know for a FACT that there wouldn't be MANY different universi with the SAME legends, so they must be related somehow!!!! Because what are the chances of that? Many different games with the same name have to be correlated some way or another. All are, and UI think the FF games should be no different

Rjk93~
 
Fusionist said:
the character named Shinra in FFX-2, and other things as well.
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Actually that is a connection between the two games, in FFX they got space travel and traveled to what would be the world of FFVII, hence the name Shinra, but its like a 1000+ year difference
 
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