Political Correctness, and Youth Sports

[Sephiroth Crescent]

I'm taking the thread .Z. made about the boy who got banned from playing baseball because he was "too good", and taking it a step further.

I've noticed some people feel that kids even if they lose should be given trophies, competition and talent is no longer valued it seems.

What do you guys think? If somebody is too good at a sport should they be prohibited from playing so its fair for everyone else? Should everybody receive a trophy even if they lose?

In my opinion, only those who win should receive trophies, and talent is talent, if your good at Basketball, you should be allowed to play, not warm the bench, or even be told "your out!", because your better than everybody else.

Yeah...Political Correctness sucks

- Sephiroth

 

[Erythritol]

Oh god. It's not only in sports; it seems to be everywhere. In this culture, it seems like we always need to stress that each child-- or one could even say everyone in general-- is special. Everyone has to be special and be made to feel like a winner. I find it really ridiculous. I'm sorry, but not everyone is special. You need mediocre people in order for truly special people to exist. (As I type this, "The Incredibles" pops into mind...).

No, not everyone should be given trophies. And no, a child should not be taken off a team for being "too good." He should not be punished for being truly special and above average. I don't even think it's about being politically correct; I think it's that we all want to believe that we--or our child-- are special. I think our culture is really about individualism, and everyone wants to stand out or be given an award. I think this kind of mentality is kind of unhealthy because it sets kids up to believe the world owes them something (and it doesn't).

 

[Donald Trump]

Whilst I think that society goes too far in making the ordinary people feel special, we must remember that less than 1% are special, talented, w/e.
So really it's the ordinary people who need to support and that must be supported as they make up the vast majority of the population.

 

[Gabranth]

Its because there's lack of competitive sports nowadays; its all about 'taking part' which in my opinion, is bullcrap. Due to a decline in competitive games, children's abilities are overlooked and undervalued. Trophies should only be given to those who do the best, otherwise....why bother receiving one?

If you're naturally gifted in a certain area, you should be allowed to excel further and allowed to play/do it to your heart's content, not being banned for it - for example: The kid who was banned from Baseball.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

I think it just depends on the sport being played, which shouldn't really make a difference and neither do I agree with it but when you have sports like football people are looking for the best people all the time which is why trials etc occur and a lot of the time the best people rarely get taken into top flight because there are few scouts that circulate.

Anyways, I don't agree with people 'too good' at a sport because it's what you aim to be, you want to be the best and it must be hugely discouraging to know you can be too good for a certain sport. D:

 

[Shu]

No kidding, I might be getting old, but I do know that it takes people with better "skill" and that are "too good" in order to teach us ordinary people how to rise above. It puts our minds and physical strengths to test and actually makes us want to achieve more.

Heck the only reason I knew how to hit a curve ball was from experience. I remember those first years of learning how were long painful experiences, but when I learned, it just took a matter of waiting to be able to hit.

Slow curves, Fast Curves, Fork Balls, Gyro Pitches, Knuckle Balls, Change Ups, I mean seriously if kids are deemed "too good", I feel America is setting itself for de-evolution.

The movie Idiocracy comes into mind.

 

[Aemeath]

I've noticed this too, even in equality oriented groups like the Y

I've been coaching for a YMCA soccer program called Play It Forward for five months or so now, and my assistant coach and I have come to know each of our players and the other teams' players ability levels. We coached a team of 6-9 year olds.

Once, the supervisor of the program was watching our game and told me that a certain child, who was amazing at soccer, had to sit out the next round. When I asked him why he said it was because he wasn't passing the ball to the other kids very often, so I countered with "None of the kids pass the ball very often. They're seven. At that age, it's all about 'me, me, me!'" He then said that all the kids should get a fair chance at the ball, completely ignoring my argument.

So I was a little flustered and said "So by taking him off the field, does HE get a fair chance?" and my supervisor left me alone for a while.

Then, at the end of the league, (we're starting it by up next month) everyone got medals and a free soccer ball. The coaches, administration, and referees were also given medals. This, I found, was ridiculous because it makes the concept of receiving a medal - or any award for that matter - less significant to a child. Later on in life, people will give them praise, and they'll say "So what?"

I also think equality is ridiculous. If you're good at something, you should be rewarded for it. If you're absolutely horrible, you shouldn't be allowed to play and become a detriment to your team. Hence why later in life, we have interviews and auditions for roles and jobs. Though with the way the world is changing, someone will eventually cry out "This is not fair. I haven't got education, but I want to be a doctor! What happened to equal opportunities?!"

So don't be surprised if you're next open-heart surgery is performed by a bum.

 

[Donald Trump]

Once, the supervisor of the program was watching our game and told me that a certain child, who was amazing at soccer, had to sit out the next round. When I asked him why he said it was because he wasn't passing the ball to the other kids very often, so I countered with "None of the kids pass the ball very often. They're seven. At that age, it's all about 'me, me, me!'" He then said that all the kids should get a fair chance at the ball, completely ignoring my argument.

By taking him off the field you are enforcing the message that being selfish is bad. You can't expect him to learn that by continuing to let him play the same way. At 7, it's about fun and not winning, teams aren't chosen on ability yet, so by allowing one child to play because he is good, you are denying others from experiencing fun. Surely the good of the many comes before that of just one boy?

Then, at the end of the league, (we're starting it by up next month) everyone got medals and a free soccer ball. The coaches, administration, and referees were also given medals. This, I found, was ridiculous because it makes the concept of receiving a medal - or any award for that matter - less significant to a child. Later on in life, people will give them praise, and they'll say "So what?"

So we tell kids that " sorry, you aren't good enough, infact you're shit. You don't get a medal." That's going to upset kids, and not make them motivated to play again, and some people develop from being poor players into good ones. Without motivation they would have given up.

I also think equality is ridiculous. If you're good at something, you should be rewarded for it. If you're absolutely horrible, you shouldn't be allowed to play and become a detriment to your team. Hence why later in life, we have interviews and auditions for roles and jobs. Though with the way the world is changing, someone will eventually cry out "This is not fair. I haven't got education, but I want to be a doctor! What happened to equal opportunities?!"

You can't apply sports to jobs. You're allowed to discriminate on ability when it comes to jobs because it affects you, and the business. Businesses are supposed to be succesful, children's sports are supposed to fun so that everyone can enjoy it, not just the one percent who are better than everyone else.

 

[Aemeath]

By taking him off the field you are enforcing the message that being selfish is bad. You can't expect him to learn that by continuing to let him play the same way. At 7, it's about fun and not winning, teams aren't chosen on ability yet, so by allowing one child to play because he is good, you are denying others from experiencing fun. Surely the good of the many comes before that of just one boy?

If that is the case, then I must take all the children off the field because as I said, at that age, they all are selfish. They all take the ball for themselves and never pass. If you are saying then that I should take him off as an example to the other players, then I'd have to disagree with you. Why not take the other children who keep the ball to themselves off the field? Also from working with the kids for a long time, I've found that they are unhappy when they are losing. It makes them happy to win, as it should. They don't care who scores the goal, as long as they're ahead. By taking off the best player, the performance and morale of the entire team goes down and the team loses.

So we tell kids that " sorry, you aren't good enough, infact you're shit. You don't get a medal." That's going to upset kids, and not make them motivated to play again, and some people develop from being poor players into good ones. Without motivation they would have given up.

I didn't say that at all. What one does when a child is failing is find him a friend to tutor and encourage him, or do so yourself. You don't say to children that they aren't good at what they're trying to do, I'll agree with you on that. But to go ahead and give them all medals takes away from the experience. "Well, everyone is getting them, so they're meaningless."

What you should do is praise the talented ones and encourage and merit the effort of the not-so talented ones. By praising everyone, the ones who are truly talented will begin to believe that they aren't as good as they thought and they will lose motivation. If you give medals to the good players, while maintaining a positive learning environment so that other not-as-talented players can develop their skills, they will want to strive for that medal. If there's a reward given without effort put into receiving that reward, the children stop trying realising they can get the same result from less work and persistence that they'll need later in life. When that happens, everyone will lose because no one is trying and no one will be happy, defeating the point of the League.

 

[Shu]

Good points, but Here's how I see it. If a person is naturally gifted at a certain thing... say playing the drums, say pitching, say Jujitsu...

Would you sit there and say "well he's to good, we might should look for mediocre talent" I mean honestly most people are not naturally gifted to begin with, but for those who are, why strip the person of his god given ability? I mean I don't see how these arrogant "aholes", who run these sporting events, get off by saying this person should sit out for the rest of the game.

I mean seriously, if you trained down right hard at something, most likely you are going to accell faster than someone who goofs off at what they do. So why are these managers giving rise to mediocracy? I mean why praise someone who is always late for practice, who doesn't want to listen to the coach, and never is a team player? I mean we should nurture these people's gifts not sit there and hold them back, I would be down right pissed if I was their parents.

Coaches have a right to be dissapointed in kids who don't want to give their 100% as well. Why reward kids who don't want to try for something more than themselves? Coaches were once players as well, they know what a good team consists of, why not use these "good" players to their advantage, rather than dictate what the league manager says.

I hate to say it but giving medals to kids that don't deserve it, is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. There should only be a 1st 2nd and 3rd... not a 10th, 11th, and 12th. I mean I can understand the penalties of stacking a team, but if there is only 1 to 2 good players that make the team better, why penalize that?

 

[Gabranth]

If that is the case, then I must take all the children off the field because as I said, at that age, they all are selfish. They all take the ball for themselves and never pass. If you are saying then that I should take him off as an example to the other players, then I'd have to disagree with you. Why not take the other children who keep the ball to themselves off the field? Also from working with the kids for a long time, I've found that they are unhappy when they are losing. It makes them happy to win, as it should. They don't care who scores the goal, as long as they're ahead. By taking off the best player, the performance and morale of the entire team goes down and the team loses.

At that age, I don't think they're playing for the medals as much as taking part. The point at which games become truly competitive is the 12+ range. Sure, they probably want to win, but all the children want to play. Its a difficult task, showing right from wrong to someone with exceptional talent at such a young age in team sports: Taking him off the team give him the idea that no-one wants him to play, whilst leaving him on the team results in others not getting a turn as much as they would like to. Personally, I would let the boy play in moderation, which lets the other kids look up to him. Wait until he grows older, then start training him for real.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

By taking him off the field you are enforcing the message that being selfish is bad. You can't expect him to learn that by continuing to let him play the same way. At 7, it's about fun and not winning, teams aren't chosen on ability yet, so by allowing one child to play because he is good, you are denying others from experiencing fun. Surely the good of the many comes before that of just one boy?

Im disappointed in you Placebo! At 7 alot of kids are selfish, he isn't going to wake one morning and decide "zomg I've been selfish! Thank you Coach Placebo for showing me right from wrong. Your argument doesn't apply to soccer(or Football as they say in the UK), because even the best player will sit out, they aren't going to play him for the whole game.

So we tell kids that " sorry, you aren't good enough, infact you're shit. You don't get a medal." That's going to upset kids, and not make them motivated to play again, and some people develop from being poor players into good ones. Without motivation they would have given up.

Thats bullshit. When I was a kid, and I played Futbol(Soccer), growing up? Guess what? Only the winners got trophies, did I cry, and lose my motivation? Hell no, it made me try harder, so that I could get a trophy.

Trophies should only be given out to those who win, and even to those who improved, and showed heart(selectively of course).

You can't apply sports to jobs. You're allowed to discriminate on ability when it comes to jobs because it affects you, and the business. Businesses are supposed to be succesful, children's sports are supposed to fun so that everyone can enjoy it, not just the one percent who are better than everyone else.

If your coaching kids in the Y, you coach the team, cheer them on, and thats it...it doesn't affect the business as much as you imply, at all. Plus you make it sound as if all the kids suck, and theres only 1 good guy, which isn't true. In reality a majority of the kids are good, but theres a smaller minority of them who are even better, those are the ones who are seperated onto different teams, then you have another small percentage, who are new to the game, and learners. No offense man, but your scenario here, is false.

I usually agree with you alot, but sorry but here I think your wrong, you and I just have a simple disagreement, sorry if I sounded a bit harsh...but hey I am just trying to get my point across =).

- Sephiroth

 

[Gabranth]

Thats bullshit. When I was a kid, and I played Futbol(Soccer), growing up? Guess what? Only the winners got trophies, did I cry, and lose my motivation? Hell no, it made me try harder, so that I could get a trophy.

Times have changed now, its about 'taking part' rather than winning. I'm not sure how competitive sports and games are in the US, but in the UK, praise is given to everyone equally no matter how great their ability is. Naturally, this gives the idea that being competitive is wrong, so in theory kids would give up because all they see is equal praise.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Times have changed now, its about 'taking part' rather than winning. I'm not sure how competitive sports and games are in the US, but in the UK, praise is given to everyone equally no matter how great their ability is. Naturally, this gives the idea that being competitive is wrong, so in theory kids would give up because all they see is equal praise.

I'm Puerto Rican, I havent really played any sports in the U.S so I wouldnt really know . Hmm it seems in the U.K you guys have a different philosophy of how things work, we could argue this till were blue in the face, and still have our opinions remain unchanged.

- Sephiroth