Jenova and Sephiroth

Howl

Howl

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So Cooky and I spent well over 3 hours tonight discussing the plot holes and theories of FFVII. When it came down to it, we both came to the following conclusion:

Sephiroth and Jenova share vastly different objectives in the game. They may not be team mates after all. If you'll trace back to the origin of the story, you'll recall that Jenova landed on the planet with the intention of taking over...Jenova is a planet-hopping virus...

After her arrival, Jenova was defeated by the Cetra...
I quote Ifalna:

That's when the one who injured the Planet... or the 'crisis from the
sky' as we call him, came. He first approached us as a friend, deceived them,
and finally.... Gave them the virus. The Cetra were attacked by the virus and
went mad...transforming into monsters. Then, just as he had at the Knowlespole.
He approached other Cetra clans....infecting them...with the virus.

-Quotes taken from neoseeker.com resourcelink.html-


Jenova's true intention has always been to conquer the planet. This time, however, Jenova was unsucessful in reaching it's goal. The planet saw Jenova as such a threat that weapon was born for the purpous of killing her. One way or another, Jenova was confined, and her body was mumified...and then later discovered by ShinRa and transported to the Nibelhiem reactor.

Blah blah blah, blahdy blah blah...

Well here's where our theory comes into play. Jenova's cells were extracted from her while she was in the mumified state, and then injected into Lucrecia in order to create a new and enhanced being (Sephiroth). Sephiroth is born into the world with Jenova's cells.
Jenova cells, having the power to mimic and work together, gives Sephy the power to control other beings which are infused with Jenova cells. These other beings include: the 12+ black caped Jenova experiments, Cloud, and Jenova's reawakened body/limbs.

In the first part of the game, when the party is locked inside the ShinRa building, Jenova makes her escape. Either her body is awakened by the presence of a Cetra, (Aerith) or Sephiroth is using her own cells to controll her. I choose the second probability.
Jenova, under Sephy's comand, releases Cloud's cell door under the impression that Cloud is a part of her (since he's been infused with Jenova's cells as well), Sephy is under the impression that Cloud can also be controlled.
WRONG.

Cloud and the others then go on a grand adventure to stop Sephiroth.

Here's where our theory unravels...
Jenova's primary intention has always been to destroy lives and to control. This however, is Sephiroth's plan as well. Sephiroth uses Jenova to protect himself, and to create diversions while he swims around in the lifestream and searches for the promised land.
Obviously, jenova is not working with Sephiroth to help him gain the power that she too craves. She's working with him because SHE is HIS puppet.




My brain is SO fried right now...continue this discussion please. <3
 
Rhea said:
So Cooky and I spent well over 3 hours tonight discussing the plot holes and theories of FFVII. When it came down to it, we both came to the following conclusion:

Sephiroth and Jenova share vastly different objectives in the game. They may not be team mates after all. If you'll trace back to the origin of the story, you'll recall that Jenova landed on the planet with the intention of taking over...Jenova is a planet-hopping virus...

After her arrival, Jenova was defeated by the Cetra...
I quote Ifalna:

That's when the one who injured the Planet... or the 'crisis from the
sky' as we call him, came. He first approached us as a friend, deceived them,
and finally.... Gave them the virus. The Cetra were attacked by the virus and
went mad...transforming into monsters. Then, just as he had at the Knowlespole.
He approached other Cetra clans....infecting them...with the virus.

-Quotes taken from neoseeker.com resourcelink.html-


Jenova's true intention has always been to conquer the planet. This time, however, Jenova was unsucessful in reaching it's goal. The planet saw Jenova as such a threat that weapon was born for the purpous of killing her. One way or another, Jenova was confined, and her body was mumified...and then later discovered by ShinRa and transported to the Nibelhiem reactor.

Blah blah blah, blahdy blah blah...

Well here's where our theory comes into play. Jenova's cells were extracted from her while she was in the mumified state, and then injected into Lucrecia in order to create a new and enhanced being (Sephiroth). Sephiroth is born into the world with Jenova's cells.
Jenova cells, having the power to mimic and work together, gives Sephy the power to control other beings which are infused with Jenova cells. These other beings include: the 12+ black caped Jenova experiments, Cloud, and Jenova's reawakened body/limbs.

In the first part of the game, when the party is locked inside the ShinRa building, Jenova makes her escape. Either her body is awakened by the presence of a Cetra, (Aerith) or Sephiroth is using her own cells to controll her. I choose the second probability.
Jenova, under Sephy's comand, releases Cloud's cell door under the impression that Cloud is a part of her (since he's been infused with Jenova's cells as well), Sephy is under the impression that Cloud can also be controlled.
WRONG.

Cloud and the others then go on a grand adventure to stop Sephiroth.

Here's where our theory unravels...
Jenova's primary intention has always been to destroy lives and to control. This however, is Sephiroth's plan as well. Sephiroth uses Jenova to protect himself, and to create diversions while he swims around in the lifestream and searches for the promised land.
Obviously, jenova is not working with Sephiroth to help him gain the power that she too craves. She's working with him because SHE is HIS puppet.




My brain is SO fried right now...continue this discussion please. <3
Click to expand...
Very good post Rhea.

One of Jenova's instincts is too 'reunite' after its body is seperated. At some point or another all Jenova cells will begin to reunite with the main body. When Sephiroth fell into the Lifestream his 'will' was so strong that he infact managed to control Jenova himself instead of the otherway around and using the knowlage and wisdom he gained in the Lifsteam, conducted his plan for world domination. Now the dominant vessel in the 'Jenova gene pool' as it were, Sephiroth can now call out to the cells and thus manipulate any carriers. eg Cloud.

Part of the real reason why Cloud is so aimed at getting to Sephiroth is because he's being summoned to join in with the reunion, tho obviously unaware. The cells and Sephiroths will is driving him onward.

There is no 'one' Promised Land. Its ones own personal intepritation that is their Promised Land, in this case Sephiroth's would be the world that he would ultimatly have in his possession.

But yes, the role of Jenova and Sephiroth have switched and Jenova is the 'puppet', whilst the real Sephiroth sleeps in the North Crater awaiting the completion of his 'reunion'.

I'm tired, I need sleep....
 
Exaaaaactly. I knew we got this one down pat. ^_^
But our ULTIMATE question was...the very very FINAL form of sephiroth that you fight in the end of the game...
Is it really Sephiroth? It must be...because he's so weak...

And yes, according to Aeris, the promised land doesnt exist. Isn't it everywhere??
 
Rhea said:
Exaaaaactly. I knew we got this one down pat. ^_^
But our ULTIMATE question was...the very very FINAL form of sephiroth that you fight in the end of the game...
Is it really Sephiroth? It must be...because he's so weak...

And yes, according to Aeris, the promised land doesnt exist. Isn't it everywhere??
Click to expand...
The Promised Land to the Ancients is the Lifestream. The end of their journey, to supreme happieness. So yeah its kinda everywhere if you think of it like that.

Safer Sephiroth (Sephys final badass form) is a hard one. FF games arnt too accurate when they come to 'forms' in battle hehe but one theory is that its indeed the real Sephiroth but he has absorbed spiritual energy from the planet to become a new being. But as for the weak one at the end its just an image of Sephiroth's mind. Both Clouds and Sephiroths mind engage battle where Cloud ultimatly wins. Its abit metaphorical.
 
I'm referring to the VERY last form...

So it isn't really sephy??
 
Ahh, very interesting posts, guys! I always thought that Sephy's very last form was more of a mental thing...
 
I feel very accomplished. ^_^
We must've talked about FFVII for 30240394 hours yesterday. ^_^
 
Yeah I agree with the Mental thing you posted. If it was just physical the fight may have taken longer and that last upgraded scene could've been just cloud defeating sephiroth in his mind like you said. Apparently this theory is strong.......nothing else to say.
 
Well I've seen so many theories about Sephiroth being Jenova's puppet, but the way I see it, it's the other way around. ^_^
 
[FONT=&quot]Lol, I wrote this whole explaination for a near identical question on another forum. You'r lucky I saved it. This should answer all your questions. (some of this you may know already if you've read my post in the 'What's Cloud's story?' thread.) Enjoy!

Jenova is an alien, a viral life-form, that can take any shape it wants. Jenova is no specific 'he' or 'she' but rather Jenova is most firmly an 'it'. The alien being, never before encountered, has powers that aren't human, of which I'll come back to later. A notable aspect of Jenova is that if any cells are separated from the main mass will eventually come back to the body. Whereas humans freely shed millions of skin cells by rubbing an eyelid, Jenova does no such thing. Quite a curiosity. It also has complete control over every individula cell, thus why all the cells eventually come back together when seperated-Jenova is actually pulling itself back together again. Jenova is also a very resilient creature, one that, for some reason, can survive the absolute zero temperature of outer space, possibly by using the aformentioned powers.

Next, Jenova came here via space travel. However it skipped the expected space-ship arrival and came to the planet without anything else than itself. Interesting in the least. The northern crater in the game is actually the landing site of Jenova's arrival. Any references to this reasoning is quite vague. It's unsure as to exactly why Jenova came here, but the intention was not peaceful in the least. When it came here, it took the shape of the the indeginous species and played the part of a benevolent being for a time. Eventually it started to act, and showed the people specters of lost loved ones, displaying it's supposed power over the dead. In reality, it was manipulating the knowledge of previous lives memories immersed within the lifestream. Using the knowledge, it created illusions, weaking the moral and confusing the populace. Then it began to spread a virus amongst the humans, who at that time were called the Cetra. It could have done this easily by spreading it's own cells throughout the lifestream and then making it's own cells attack the host. If you've seen FF7:AC, then this would be known as Geostigma. This virus killed nearly all the Cetra, the guardians and people of the planet, in the most literal sense. With the planet defenseless, and weakend by the crater, Jenova could now take over the planet for whatever purposes it had in mind. However, the remaining Cetra managed to kill Jenova. However, the Cetra race was all but extinct, and it never grew back to it's former numbers. At the same time the planet was creating a defense for itself, the Weapons, but the Cetra managed to kill Jenova before the Weapons were ever released.

Jenova was dumped back in the crater, or possibly some chasm, where it lay, dormant, for 2,000 years. Then, some archeologists found it in a dig. Mistaken to be one of the members of the lost Cetra race, the powerful company, Shin Ra, sought to use it's DNA to fashion a living Cetra, to an extent, with the Cetra's powers of finding the Promised Land. The Promised Land was of great interest for it was thought that Mako would be abundant there. To do this, they first injected members of SOLDIER with Jenova cells, not only to see what effect it would have, but to get the Promised Land sensing ability. It didn't work, so an unborn infant was directly injected with Jenova cells, to work in the alien cells with human DNA--truly fusing the two speices together. This is the creation of Sephiroth.

The rest you undoubtedly know, yet I'll do a quick run-through for topics' sake. Sephiroth did not turn out as they expected, still ignorant of the fact that Jenova was not an Ancient/Cetra. When Sephiroth found out that Shin Ra was creating monsters using humans, he snapped, finding out that he was created in a similar way, by the fact that his mother's name and the monsters name in the room of the reactor were the same. The documents in the Shin Ra basement confirmed this. Then Sephiroth went truly mad, horrified and angered that he was the 'rightful heir' to the planet and that these 'weaklings' had done so much harm to his mother and himself.

Now, since Jenova was dead, it had no way of ever controlling it's body, obviously. But Sephiroth, who was half-Jenova, if you will, could manipulate the cells of Jenova's body, a trademark of the spieces it seems. So in all the times you see Jenova it is not really Jenova--it's Sephiroth controlling Jenova's cells. A madman fighting with the puppet of his 'mother's' dead body--which brings up the puppet question, but that's another story for another time.

As Sephiroth has control over all Jenova cells, that also means that he has control of the cells that have been injected into countless, SOLDIER's, clones, and human experiments. Now this is where Cloud comes in. As he was also experimented on, Jenova cells were also injected into him as well. Sephiroth was able to manipulate the cells to his advantage, mainly in the memory part of the brain. Now, I'll get back to the power of Jenova. These cells have an adverse affect on human cells, changing normal human cells into something more like Jenova cells. This grants humans some limited powers of Jenova, thus the reason for flying, walking on ceilings, and being unnaturally strong. However, the Mako-immersion process that accompanies the injection of Jenova cells on the experiments has a dramatic effect. The Mako--lifestream--is filled with the memories of the lives of people long dead, as it is the very spirit energy of hundreds of former lives, and is being recycled over and over. When immersed in Mako that spells bad news--for thousands of memories of unknown lives is forced into a person's mind, and if that person, like Cloud, wasn't particularly fond of their life, it would be easy to get lost in the flood of memories and literally lose ones own identity. This is what happend to all the previous Sephiroth clones. However, Cloud, in some fashion, it is never really explained, manages to get hold of the identity of his deceased friend Zack, and thus thinks he is Zack but with his own past. The two do not mix together very well, and I often refer to this confused Cloud as Zoud (it was better than 'Clack') to keep them straight. I could go on but that's going far off topic and I belive I'll leave it at that.

[/FONT]
 
That's exactly the point that I was trying to get across. ^_^
Though I thought perhaps that since jenova's body reuinites, that maybe it wasn't killed...and it was merely contained within the crater. =x
 
Oh no, it was killed. It's most certainly dead. Otherwise Sephiroth wouldn't be able to control it's body. Jenova is dead, but it's cells can still be activated by another of it's kind. Not neccessarily of the same spieces but of the same blood, DNA. Sephiroth is linked to it in just a way. So he can control the cells of Jenova, and thus, it's body.
 
Well it does make sense that if Jenova were still alive, then SHE would take control of Sephy, and HE would be her puppet.

Sephiroth Vs Jenova.
I think Jenova would win. lol.
 
Well DM was one of the only people I've come across who also agrees that Jenova is the puppet. :)
 
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