If The Final Bosses Were To Meet....

[The_Oathkeeper]

I'm not really sure where you got the idea that controlling the Negative Lifestream is a world-destroying ability. If Sephiroth could've used the Negative Lifestream to destroy the planet or even significantly damage it, I think he would've, even if he did want to toy around with Cloud for a while. Remember, his intended goal was to render the planet uninhabitable and use it as a vessel to travel the stars. I'm guessing this involves removing the life from the planet first. However, the most Sephiroth ever did in the way of large-scale effects on his environment was to create a storm over the ruins of Midgar. Other than that, he doesn't really have anything in the way of destructive powers, at least not compared to the other villains in the series. If anything, he's never shown the ability to destroy an entire planet by force, only to damage it through a disease (Geostigma), which would definitely not be effective in an all-out battle. Even the Lifestream itself has never shown itself capable of mass destruction of any sort, and the Negative Lifestream (which is what Sephiroth controls) only makes up a fraction of the overall Lifestream.

I don't see where you get the idea that Sephiroth has instant regeneration, either. He never once displays that ability in the entirety of the FFVII Compilation, and certainly not in Advent Children. It's true that he can turn intangible, which would probably do him a great deal of good against opponents who primarily fight using physical attacks, but he's never moved very fast while intangible. The most he ever did was to slowly phase through the floor, so I can say with relative certainty that intangibility wouldn't be an instant-win for Sephy by any means. I could only see him using it as a defense against fighters using physical weapons as their primary means of attack, which would probably be more effective when fighting against the sword-wielding heroes rather than the typical spellcasting villains. On the subject of instant regeneration, though, where do you get that? If Sephiroth had the ability to regenerate, I think he would've used it to recover from Cloud's Omnislash. Any regeneration he has would have to be incredibly weak.

If you mean when Sephiroth regenerated his body, then yes, he does have the ability to regenerate in some sense of the word. However, the first time he regenerated, it took him a total of about five years to do so without any help. I doubt that'd be at all useful in a one-on-one battle, considering, by the time he revived himself, his target would be back to full health. The second time he regenerated, he needed two things: a physical host (Kadaj) and a large concentration of JENOVA Cells (JENOVA's head). For Sephiroth to regenerate his body, those two circumstances must be fulfilled. Again, not something he can readily do in a combat situation. I mean, all of the Jenova Cells except those in people who went through the SOLDIER treatment (who are supposed to be strong enough to withstand Jenova's influence, anyway) have pretty much been wiped out, so even that isn't an option for Sephiroth.

So yeah, he does have the ability to turn intangible, but it wouldn't be horribly useful against a powerful/fast opponent, and he sort of has regeneration, but again, it couldn't be used effectively in combat...well, not unless a suitable host and a large concentration of Jenova Cells happen to wander onto the battlefield...

 

[The Crystal]

The Negative Lifestream is a portion of the entire Lifestream, not "a fraction". I don't see where you got the idea it was only "a fraction".
And about the Lifestream not showing itself capable of mass destruction of any sort... Are you kidding? The Compilation Ultimania states that only a portion of the Lifestream was enough to obliterate Meteor. This same portion of the Lifestream destroyed many buildings and killed many people in the official book "On the Way to a Smile: Case of Denzel". The Junon Cannon/Sister Ray used a portion of it to easily destroy a Weapon(and it's stated in Before Crisis that the Cannon could destroy Midgar in one shot). And it is the source of ALL magic and life in the planet.
Even with "a portion" of it, Sephiroth still could cause a huge damage to the planet.
Ah, and lets not forget his willpower/telekinesis too(that could stop Holy from moving), and his very powerful barrier(the one around the Northern Crater).

Most magic spells(if not all of them) in FF, are energy, and can only damage physical things. They can't hurt an intangible being.
About his speed in the Cargo Ship... I don't think he is able to only move slowly, when intangible. Remember that it was the first time we saw him in the game, and making him phase through the ground slowly like a ghost, would make him appear to be more scary, than if he just appeared walking and said "Hi Cloud!".
It was just the way he choosed to appear, the best(and more scary) way Squaresoft found to present him in the story.

The first time he regenerated, he wasn't ONLY doing that, but absorbing great quantities of Lifestream too. The first time he regenerated he didn't have a body made 100% of Jenova cells, like in AC. And if you remember, Bizarro Sephiroth could regenerate parts of his body(it was so annoying to me).
The second time he regenerated, he needed a physical host(Jenova cells, not Kadaj). Kadaj was connected to Sephiroth, but he was just a spirit-body formed of spirit-energy(duh!), and part of Sephiroth's will. This is explained in the Reunion Files. Kadaj was a spirit, not a physical host.
Then after Kadaj drunk the cells, Sephiroth took over(remember, they were connected by Sephiroth's will) and made the J-cells multiply and shapeshift in his form, creating a new physical body for him.
"Why he needed to make them multiply", you ask. Because the number of cells in the box wasn't enough.
I don't know where you got the idea that he needed a "large" concentration of Jenova-cells, because inside the box there was only the HEAD of a "woman", and after Rufus opened a hole in it, there was even less than that.
But Sephiroth made the cells of a single head(or less, because of Rufus' hole) multiply to the point of creating an entire new body for him. And that took seconds to happen(between the moment Kadaj drunk the cells, and the moment Sephiroth appeared).
Ah, and the UOG(and the game itself IIRC) states that Jenova/Sephiroth throws parts of his body at you(arms, legs, etc), and those parts transform in the Jenova monsters you fight. But when you find Jenova/Sephiroth again, he have all parts of his body, meaning that he regenerated them. And I know that I'm talking about Jenova/Sephiroth and not the real one(at the Crater), but remember that AC Sephiroth's body IS Jenova.
And IIRC the Compilation Ultimania describes Sephiroth as "nigh immortal". The only reason Omnislash Version 5 could kill him is because... Well... Is because the attack was fuc*ing powerful, really.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Sephiroth is the strongest FF villain or anything like that. I just think that you should give more credit to him.

 

[Red_Mage]

But Bizzaro Sephiroth gameplay details have nothing to do with plot power.

 

[Zack~]

I'd have to say Seph just cause

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

The Negative Lifestream is a portion of the entire Lifestream, not "a fraction". I don't see where you got the idea it was only "a fraction".
And about the Lifestream not showing itself capable of mass destruction of any sort... Are you kidding? The Compilation Ultimania states that only a portion of the Lifestream was enough to obliterate Meteor. This same portion of the Lifestream destroyed many buildings and killed many people in the official book "On the Way to a Smile: Case of Denzel". The Junon Cannon/Sister Ray used a portion of it to easily destroy a Weapon(and it's stated in Before Crisis that the Cannon could destroy Midgar in one shot). And it is the source of ALL magic and life in the planet.
Even with "a portion" of it, Sephiroth still could cause a huge damage to the planet.

*sigh* First off, portion=fraction...Must we split hairs here? Both "portion" and "fraction" are words used to describe parts of a whole. 4/5ths of a pie would still be a "fraction" of a pie, because it isn't the whole pie. Furthermore, there is regular, untainted Lifestream, Negative Lifestream, and Stagnant Lifestream/Mako. The untainted Lifestream makes up the vast majority of the Lifestream to be found on the Planet, so yes, I'd say that Sephiroth only controls a mere fraction of the total amount of Lifestream. It's probably a pretty small fraction of it, too, because he can only control what Jenova has corrupted. I'm assuming Jenova didn't do a significant amount of damage to the Lifestream, considering the planet is still alive and kicking. Midgar was obviously more of a threat to the planet's supply of Lifestream. I don't think there could've been all that much Negative Lifestream around for Sephiroth to control. "A fraction" would be far more accurate, actually, even by your logic. If memory serves, the only Negative Lifestream is what Jenova got to...

And yes, a portion of the Lifestream obliterated Meteor, and a portion of the Lifestream destroyed part of a city. However, I think you're underestimating how incredibly small a city and meteor are in comparisons to a planet. Yes, Meteor clearly contained a great deal of power, but it was still no larger than one would expect such a meteor to be, not to mention the fact that it was standing still. Midgar actually looks to be a relatively small city, at least when compared with the largest cities found in our world (New York, Tokyo, etc.), and that portion of the Lifestream only destroyed part of it. What I'm trying to say is that the Lifestream never showed us that it could do anything remotely close to destroying an entire planet. A city is typically extremely small compared to the entire surface area of a planet, and that's not counting the planet's interior. That sort of thing would quite literally be nothing more than pure child's play for someone like Trance Kuja or TC Ultimecia. And, considering Sephiroth only has a portion of the overall Lifestream...

As for the Sister Ray and it being the source of all magic, you're thinking of Mako and Materia, respectively, which are highly refined Lifestream. On its own, Lifestream is not capable of either of those things. Besides, the Sister Ray wasn't that powerful, at least not on a planet-destroying scale. AVALANCHE has defeated WEAPONS before (Ultima, at the very least, and possibly Ruby and Emerald). That doesn't mean they're capable of destroying the planet.

Ah, and lets not forget his willpower/telekinesis too(that could stop Holy from moving), and his very powerful barrier(the one around the Northern Crater).

Sephiroth's willpower can't be used in actual combat...at least not as a means of attack or defense. Willpower is useful in the sense that, well, it allows Sephiroth to withstand more damage and keep coming, but I highly doubt that it would be practical for him to just charge through with his sword swinging, not giving any thought at all to his actions. As for telekinesis, the vast majority of Final Fantasy villains have psychokinetic abilities in spades. Either that, or they've got something far better, such as ExDeath's control over the Void or Kuja's planet-destroying Ultima. When it comes to his barrier, there's nothing to suggest that it was all that powerful. The Sister Ray destroyed it, so I'm pretty sure that any massively powerful attack (again, Kuja's Ultima, Kefka's Light of Judgment, etc.) would essentially have exactly the same effect. Added to that is the fact that Sephiroth can't really do anything in the way of physical combat as long as he's inside of that barrier.

Most magic spells(if not all of them) in FF, are energy, and can only damage physical things. They can't hurt an intangible being.
About his speed in the Cargo Ship... I don't think he is able to only move slowly, when intangible. Remember that it was the first time we saw him in the game, and making him phase through the ground slowly like a ghost, would make him appear to be more scary, than if he just appeared walking and said "Hi Cloud!".
It was just the way he choosed to appear, the best(and more scary) way Squaresoft found to present him in the story.

On the subject of magic, I'm not at all sure where you get that idea. Magic is typically the best way of fighting undead monsters, even in the Train Graveyard (or whatever it's called), where you fight ghosts who literally turn intangible. In fact, when the ghosts turn intangible, the only way to fight them is with magic.

When it comes to the Cargo Ship, meanwhile, it doesn't matter how the game chose to "present" it. We've never seen Sephiroth phase through anything at any speeds higher than "extremely slow". Yes, it was much more scary to have Sephiroth slowly rise up through the floor of the Cargo Ship, but that doesn't mean that he's capable of doing so any faster than he did. You're basing this purely off of speculation, whereas I at least have examples of Sephiroth phasing through things extremely slowly.

The first time he regenerated, he wasn't ONLY doing that, but absorbing great quantities of Lifestream too. The first time he regenerated he didn't have a body made 100% of Jenova cells, like in AC. And if you remember, Bizarro Sephiroth could regenerate parts of his body(it was so annoying to me).

Sephiroth didn't absorb any Lifestream when he was regenerating his body after the Nibelheim incident. He was just gaining knowledge from it, such as how to regenerate his body. Besides, I don't see why Sephiroth wouldn't have simply regenerated his body first, and then started absorbing Lifestream, or vice-versa. Yes, it does take him a hell of a long time to regenerate himself. It isn't something he can do instantly, or even within the span of a year, for that matter. To say the least, it isn't something that would be remotely effective in the middle of a battle. And yes, he didn't have a body made 100% of Jenova cells, but I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything. Even with a body made 100% of Jenova cells, Sephiroth either has no regeneration or inconceivably weak regeneration.

As for Bizarro Sephiroth, yes, it can regenerate its limbs in gameplay, but if you attack the head, the body will die, or so they say, anyhow. I'm betting that's just a Gameplay mechanic, either that or something reminiscent of a Cure spell, which normal, Materia-toting humans have, anyway. The Pre-Nibelheim, Post-Nibelheim, Safer, and AC Sephiroths have never shown remotely similar abilities, and Bizarro Sephiroth is too slow to avoid having his head smashed in by any of the villains he faces off against...most of whom can fly.

The second time he regenerated, he needed a physical host(Jenova cells, not Kadaj). Kadaj was connected to Sephiroth, but he was just a spirit-body formed of spirit-energy(duh!), and part of Sephiroth's will. This is explained in the Reunion Files. Kadaj was a spirit, not a physical host.
Then after Kadaj drunk the cells, Sephiroth took over(remember, they were connected by Sephiroth's will) and made the J-cells multiply and shapeshift in his form, creating a new physical body for him.
"Why he needed to make them multiply", you ask. Because the number of cells in the box wasn't enough.

Where did you get the idea that Kadaj was a spirit? Well, technically, I suppose that is correct in the sense that Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo were fragments of Sephiroth's spirit, but he was a spirit given physical form. In order for Sephiroth to regenerate, Kadaj needed to fuse with Jenova Cells, making him the host that Sephiroth intended to use to return to life. It's pretty obvious that Kadaj is, in some way, a physical entity, or at least that he has a body. Besides, that doesn't really help your point. The fact remains that Kadaj and Jenova Cells need to be present in order for Sephiroth to regenerate. He needs a host and J-Cells. It's still very situational. Far too situational to be used in battle, anyway.

I don't know where you got the idea that he needed a "large" concentration of Jenova-cells, because inside the box there was only the HEAD of a "woman", and after Rufus opened a hole in it, there was even less than that.
But Sephiroth made the cells of a single head(or less, because of Rufus' hole) multiply to the point of creating an entire new body for him. And that took seconds to happen(between the moment Kadaj drunk the cells, and the moment Sephiroth appeared).

You're forgetting that "woman" was Jenova him/herself...I'm guessing that makes a bit of a difference, considering the head in-question was the head of the source of all the world's Jenova Cells. It took seconds to happen, yes, but the circumstances were still very specific. Besides, while the actual process of reconstruction took mere seconds, it still took a total of two years for Sephiroth to bring himself back. How do you propose Sephiroth use this in battle? He's obviously not going to have a suitable host or a concentration of J-Cells. Hell, without a host to influence into finding those J-Cells in the first place, Sephiroth doesn't seem capable of regenerating at all.

Ah, and the UOG(and the game itself IIRC) states that Jenova/Sephiroth throws parts of his body at you(arms, legs, etc), and those parts transform in the Jenova monsters you fight. But when you find Jenova/Sephiroth again, he have all parts of his body, meaning that he regenerated them. And I know that I'm talking about Jenova/Sephiroth and not the real one(at the Crater), but remember that AC Sephiroth's body IS Jenova.

Yes, Sephiroth throws Jenova's body parts at you. However, Sephiroth and Jenova are still completely different entities. Well, that's also not entirely true. Sephiroth is made of J-Cells, so in that sense, he is Jenova. But, while that much is true, Jenova still has a body all to herself. Remember, when Cloud and co. are trapped in the jail cells, Sephiorth enters ShinRa HQ to steal Jenova. Furthermore, the party finds Jenova in the tank, which is when Cloud temporarily blacks out for a moment. Obviously, we're dealing with two separate bodies. When Sephiroth throws one of Jenova's limbs at you, he's...well, he's throwing one of Jenova's limbs at you, not one of his own. They don't visibly regenerate, either, or at least not that we're aware of. We never see a fully-regenerated Jenova, anyway, unless you count Jenova SYNTHESIS, which I believe is a combination of Jenova LIFE and Jenova DEATH. However, the fact remains that Jenova has never been shown as capable of instant regeneration of his/her limbs.

And IIRC the Compilation Ultimania describes Sephiroth as "nigh immortal". The only reason Omnislash Version 5 could kill him is because... Well... Is because the attack was fuc*ing powerful, really.

So, if Cloud can kill him, the other villains should have no problem bypassing this regeneration that he apparently has.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Sephiroth is the strongest FF villain or anything like that. I just think that you should give more credit to him.

I'm not sure how much credit I can give the guy. As I said, he's a Mid-Tier villain. He's sure as hell not as strong as Trance Kuja, TC Ultimecia, Neo ExDeath, or Chaos.

 

[The Crystal]

*sigh* First off, portion=fraction...Must we split hairs here? Both "portion" and "fraction" are words used to describe parts of a whole. 4/5ths of a pie would still be a "fraction" of a pie, because it isn't the whole pie. Furthermore, there is regular, untainted Lifestream, Negative Lifestream, and Stagnant Lifestream/Mako. The untainted Lifestream makes up the vast majority of the Lifestream to be found on the Planet, so yes, I'd say that Sephiroth only controls a mere fraction of the total amount of Lifestream. It's probably a pretty small fraction of it, too, because he can only control what Jenova has corrupted. I'm assuming Jenova didn't do a significant amount of damage to the Lifestream, considering the planet is still alive and kicking. Midgar was obviously more of a threat to the planet's supply of Lifestream. I don't think there could've been all that much Negative Lifestream around for Sephiroth to control. "A fraction" would be far more accurate, actually, even by your logic. If memory serves, the only Negative Lifestream is what Jenova got to...

Go read "On the Way to a Smile". A LOT of people in the planet were dying, and becoming part of the Negative Lifestream. And the fact the planet wasn't dying means nothing. Sephiroth wasn't sucking it out of the planet like Shinra, so there isn't a reason for the planet to start dying.

And yes, a portion of the Lifestream obliterated Meteor, and a portion of the Lifestream destroyed part of a city. However, I think you're underestimating how incredibly small a city and meteor are in comparisons to a planet. Yes, Meteor clearly contained a great deal of power, but it was still no larger than one would expect such a meteor to be, not to mention the fact that it was standing still. Midgar actually looks to be a relatively small city, at least when compared with the largest cities found in our world (New York, Tokyo, etc.), and that portion of the Lifestream only destroyed part of it. What I'm trying to say is that the Lifestream never showed us that it could do anything remotely close to destroying an entire planet. A city is typically extremely small compared to the entire surface area of a planet, and that's not counting the planet's interior. That sort of thing would quite literally be nothing more than pure child's play for someone like Trance Kuja or TC Ultimecia. And, considering Sephiroth only has a portion of the overall Lifestream...

Funny how you didn't mention the pathetic size of the planet destroyed by Kuja, or the pathetic size of the cities destroyed by Kefka and Ex-Death.

Look dude, all cities and planets in RPGs are bigger than what we see in the game. Good examples of it are in spin-offs, like Crisis Core or Dirge of Cerberus, where the places are much bigger.

As for the Sister Ray and it being the source of all magic, you're thinking of Mako and Materia, respectively, which are highly refined Lifestream. On its own, Lifestream is not capable of either of those things. Besides, the Sister Ray wasn't that powerful, at least not on a planet-destroying scale. AVALANCHE has defeated WEAPONS before (Ultima, at the very least, and possibly Ruby and Emerald). That doesn't mean they're capable of destroying the planet.

I never said the Sister Ray was the source of all magic, WTF? I said the Lifestream is.
And the Junon Cannon/Sister Ray is a city buster. Confirmed by Veld in chapter 3(or 4) of Before Crisis. But guess what? It wasn't enough to destroy Seph's barrier(they needed to give more power to the Cannon, by using the Reactors of Midgar, to destroy the barrier).

Sephiroth's willpower can't be used in actual combat...at least not as a means of attack or defense. Willpower is useful in the sense that, well, it allows Sephiroth to withstand more damage and keep coming, but I highly doubt that it would be practical for him to just charge through with his sword swinging, not giving any thought at all to his actions. As for telekinesis, the vast majority of Final Fantasy villains have psychokinetic abilities in spades. Either that, or they've got something far better, such as ExDeath's control over the Void or Kuja's planet-destroying Ultima.

Using your mind to affect the physical world(moving or stoping objects, living beings, or even energy) is telekinesis. Sephiroth was stoping an energy with power to destroy everything on the planet(Holy). And at the end of the game(before he transforms in Bizarro) he is doing that, AND immobilizing the entire party at the same time. Some members of the party were even screaming in pain.

No other villain in FF showed that level of telekinesis/mind power.

When it comes to his barrier, there's nothing to suggest that it was all that powerful. The Sister Ray destroyed it, so I'm pretty sure that any massively powerful attack (again, Kuja's Ultima, Kefka's Light of Judgment, etc.) would essentially have exactly the same effect. Added to that is the fact that Sephiroth can't really do anything in the way of physical combat as long as he's inside of that barrier.

The normal Sister Ray(at Junon) was a city-buster, but it wasn't enough. They needed much more power to break the barrier.
His barrier is above city busting.
These are facts presented in Before Crisis and FFVII. Please, stop ignoring them.

Not even the Light of Judgement(a city-buster) would break it.

On the subject of magic, I'm not at all sure where you get that idea. Magic is typically the best way of fighting undead monsters, even in the Train Graveyard (or whatever it's called), where you fight ghosts who literally turn intangible. In fact, when the ghosts turn intangible, the only way to fight them is with magic.

...I forgot about that.

When it comes to the Cargo Ship, meanwhile, it doesn't matter how the game chose to "present" it. We've never seen Sephiroth phase through anything at any speeds higher than "extremely slow". Yes, it was much more scary to have Sephiroth slowly rise up through the floor of the Cargo Ship, but that doesn't mean that he's capable of doing so any faster than he did. You're basing this purely off of speculation, whereas I at least have examples of Sephiroth phasing through things extremely slowly.

Fine.

Sephiroth didn't absorb any Lifestream when he was regenerating his body after the Nibelheim incident. He was just gaining knowledge from it, such as how to regenerate his body. Besides, I don't see why Sephiroth wouldn't have simply regenerated his body first, and then started absorbing Lifestream, or vice-versa. Yes, it does take him a hell of a long time to regenerate himself. It isn't something he can do instantly, or even within the span of a year, for that matter. To say the least, it isn't something that would be remotely effective in the middle of a battle.

We can see(well... read) in "The Maiden who Travels the Planet" that Sephiroth was absorbing Lifestream.
Seriously, why the fu*k do you think he transformed at the end of the game?!

And yes, he didn't have a body made 100% of Jenova cells, but I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything. Even with a body made 100% of Jenova cells, Sephiroth either has no regeneration or inconceivably weak regeneration.

"No regeneration, or weak regeneration"? That's contradicted by FFVII and AC.

As for Bizarro Sephiroth, yes, it can regenerate its limbs in gameplay, but if you attack the head, the body will die, or so they say, anyhow. I'm betting that's just a Gameplay mechanic, either that or something reminiscent of a Cure spell, which normal, Materia-toting humans have, anyway.

To attack the head, you need to destroy all his other limbs first(before any one of them regenerates again).

If that's only game-mechanics, then every ability used in battle by all FF villains, are only game-mechanics too.

And it's not a cure spell. When he regenerates, you can clearly read "Head *insert letter here* Revived".

The Pre-Nibelheim, Post-Nibelheim, Safer, and AC Sephiroths have never shown remotely similar abilities, and Bizarro Sephiroth is too slow to avoid having his head smashed in by any of the villains he faces off against...most of whom can fly.

Pre-Nibel Sephiroth was fighting Cloud even with a hole in his spine. That would be only possible if he regenerated, at least, a little.
AC Sephiroth's body was Jenova, meaning that he could regenerate like she/it did in the game. And he DID regenerate his entire body in seconds.

Where did you get the idea that Kadaj was a spirit? Well, technically, I suppose that is correct in the sense that Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo were fragments of Sephiroth's spirit, but he was a spirit given physical form. In order for Sephiroth to regenerate, Kadaj needed to fuse with Jenova Cells, making him the host that Sephiroth intended to use to return to life. It's pretty obvious that Kadaj is, in some way, a physical entity, or at least that he has a body.

You don't make any sense. If Kadaj was the host, then Sephiroth wouldn't need the J-cells in the first place.
Kadaj was a guy composed of spirit-energy. Sephiroth needed a physical body to return, and that's why the SHM were after Jenova's head.

Besides, that doesn't really help your point. The fact remains that Kadaj and Jenova Cells need to be present in order for Sephiroth to regenerate. He needs a host and J-Cells. It's still very situational. Far too situational to be used in battle, anyway.

His entire body IS made of J-cells. Therefore, he can regenerate like her.

You're forgetting that "woman" was Jenova him/herself...I'm guessing that makes a bit of a difference, considering the head in-question was the head of the source of all the world's Jenova Cells. It took seconds to happen, yes, but the circumstances were still very specific.

It wasn't the "source" of anything. Those were just the cells that composed Jenova's head. It could be her arm, or leg, that it wouldn't make any difference. Jenova is Jenova.

Besides, while the actual process of reconstruction took mere seconds, it still took a total of two years for Sephiroth to bring himself back. How do you propose Sephiroth use this in battle? He's obviously not going to have a suitable host or a concentration of J-Cells. Hell, without a host to influence into finding those J-Cells in the first place, Sephiroth doesn't seem capable of regenerating at all.

*face palm*

Yeah, and it took the entire game for Kuja to absorb the souls of the Invincible and achieve Trance. It took half the game for Kefka to reach the Floating Continent and absorb the Statues' powers. It took the entire game to *insert villain here* transform into...

*sigh*

We are using their most powerful forms dude. AC Sephiroth(stated as his most powerful form ever) doesn't need Kadaj to return to life, because Sephiroth is already there.

Yes, Sephiroth throws Jenova's body parts at you. However, Sephiroth and Jenova are still completely different entities. Well, that's also not entirely true. Sephiroth is made of J-Cells, so in that sense, he is Jenova. But, while that much is true, Jenova still has a body all to herself. Remember, when Cloud and co. are trapped in the jail cells, Sephiorth enters ShinRa HQ to steal Jenova. Furthermore, the party finds Jenova in the tank, which is when Cloud temporarily blacks out for a moment. Obviously, we're dealing with two separate bodies.

Play the game again. The party finds Jenova in the tank, BEFORE Sephiroth kills everyone.
Sephiroth "possesed" Jenova's body, and was using it as a host to kill everyone in the building and free Cloud. That's clearly explained in the Ultimania so please, don't argue against it.

When Sephiroth throws one of Jenova's limbs at you, he's...well, he's throwing one of Jenova's limbs at you, not one of his own. They don't visibly regenerate, either, or at least not that we're aware of. We never see a fully-regenerated Jenova, anyway, unless you count Jenova SYNTHESIS, which I believe is a combination of Jenova LIFE and Jenova DEATH. However, the fact remains that Jenova has never been shown as capable of instant regeneration of his/her limbs.

Sephiroth was using Jenova's headless body as a host. Therefore, he was throwing "his" limbs at you. That's clearly explained in the Ultimania so please, don't argue against it.
And that's the proof of Jenova and AC Sephiroth's regeneration.

So, if Cloud can kill him, the other villains should have no problem bypassing this regeneration that he apparently has.

Are you kidding?

He regenerated his entire body from a few cells in a box. The other villains could explode him, that if there are a few cells left, he would regenerate.
The fact Omnislash Version 5 killed him, is just a proof of how powerful the attack was.

I'm not sure how much credit I can give the guy. As I said, he's a Mid-Tier villain. He's sure as hell not as strong as Trance Kuja, TC Ultimecia, Neo ExDeath, or Chaos.

His telekinesis/willpower and Negative Lifestream are powerful enough to kill those villains(if it hits them).
And with exception of Ex-Death and his Void, and Ultimecia's time-freeze, any other villain would have trouble to touch him. The guy was already moving faster than the eyes can see, during CC.

Sephiroth isn't the strongest FF villain, but he is stronger than you think. I mean, the creators stated that nothing in FFVII is above him, and that includes Omega, Chaos, and other "world destroyer" entities.
And those same creators refers to him as the "new evolution of Jenova". The same Jenova who traveled space, destroying entire planets.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Go read "On the Way to a Smile". A LOT of people in the planet were dying, and becoming part of the Negative Lifestream. And the fact the planet wasn't dying means nothing. Sephiroth wasn't sucking it out of the planet like Shinra, so there isn't a reason for the planet to start dying.

People were dying due to Geostigma, not Sephiroth's direct power. I just thought I'd point that out preemptively. And I don't think you realize the scope of what the Lifestream is really is. Everything that's ever lived on the Planet is a part of the Lifestream. Yes, many people on the planet died, but they're still nothing compared to the sheer size of all that composes the Lifestream. It isn't as though a huge chunk of the human race had died from Geostigma. Even the largest of epidemics doesn't wipe out a significant portion of humanity. Besides, animals, plants, monsters, every living creature contributes to the force that powers the planet. It isn't even just humans. Humanity in its entirety probably doesn't contribute that much to the Lifestream, considering every single living entity on the planet returns there when it dies. Consider the fact that a large portion of humanity is still alive in Advent Children, and you'll see that the Negative Lifestream still isn't really that plentiful.

Funny how you didn't mention the pathetic size of the planet destroyed by Kuja, or the pathetic size of the cities destroyed by Kefka and Ex-Death.

Look dude, all cities and planets in RPGs are bigger than what we see in the game. Good examples of it are in spin-offs, like Crisis Core or Dirge of Cerberus, where the places are much bigger.

Well, of course. I'm not that ignorant to the way things work in JRPGs. However, even in the real world, an individual city makes up a ridiculously small part of the planet. New York City, for example, is among the largest cities ever built. Compared to other cities and communities, it is simply massive. However, it still makes up a small portion of one state. This state is one of fifty states in the country of the United States of America. The USA is one of hundreds of countries on the planet Earth. Do you see what I'm getting at? The average city takes up an inconceivably small surface area when compared to the entire planet. To destroy a city is to destroy a minuscule fraction of the planet; something that, when you look at the big picture, is quite insignificant in terms of space. And I'm not sure where it was said that Terra was small compared to other planets. Even so, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that it's far larger than any single city.

I never said the Sister Ray was the source of all magic, WTF? I said the Lifestream is.
And the Junon Cannon/Sister Ray is a city buster. Confirmed by Veld in chapter 3(or 4) of Before Crisis. But guess what? It wasn't enough to destroy Seph's barrier(they needed to give more power to the Cannon, by using the Reactors of Midgar, to destroy the barrier).

No, you never said that the Sister Ray was the source of all magic, but you did use it as an example of what the Lifestream is capable of. I then brought up that the Sister Ray wasn't fueled by Lifestream in its raw form. It's fueled by refined Lifestream (Mako) and aided by enough of it to power an entire city. Oh, and wasn't the Sister Ray what tore down Sephiroth's barrier in the first place? I don't remember the scene exactly, but I seem to remember the Sister Ray firing, taking down Diamond WEAPON, and finally destroying Sephiroth's barrier.

Using your mind to affect the physical world(moving or stoping objects, living beings, or even energy) is telekinesis. Sephiroth was stoping an energy with power to destroy everything on the planet(Holy). And at the end of the game(before he transforms in Bizarro) he is doing that, AND immobilizing the entire party at the same time. Some members of the party were even screaming in pain.

No other villain in FF showed that level of telekinesis/mind power.

Telekinesis=/=Willpower. Telekinesis is a separate ability altogether. Sephiroth used his willpower to hold back a magical power (Holy), while he used his telekinesis to hold back a physical force (the party). It's a common misconception, though, much like how Sephiroth uses his manipulation of Jenova Cells to take control of Cloud's mind while he uses telekinesis to restrain his body. In any case, I don't really see what you're getting at here. Telekinesis isn't an instant win for Sephiroth just as it isn't an instant win for any other villain. Cloud and the party eventually broke free of the telekinesis, remember. Who's to say that some of these villains- who obviously have much more raw power than Sephiroth and, by extension, the party- couldn't simply do the same in a shorter amount of time? Telekinesis is far from the be all, end all in battle, especially if you have enough power to break free of it.

The normal Sister Ray(at Junon) was a city-buster, but it wasn't enough. They needed much more power to break the barrier.
His barrier is above city busting.
These are facts presented in Before Crisis and FFVII. Please, stop ignoring them.

Not even the Light of Judgement(a city-buster) would break it.

The powered-up Sister Ray was enough to destroy the barrier, so wouldn't it then be reasonable to assume that Kuja's Ultima (a plant busting ability) could do the same? I can even see the Light of Judgment destroying it, at least considering Kefka seems to be capable of letting loose multiple Light of Judgment's at one time, or at least in rapid succession. The Sister Ray, meanwhile, takes well over a minute to charge up. If, however, Kefka hammered the barrier with a barrage of attacks, it'd be bound to crack eventually. The Sister Ray can't be any more powerful than multiple strikes from the Light of Judgment. Hell, I personally don't think it's more powerful than a single Light of Judgment, but that's up for debate. Two, though? No way.

We can see(well... read) in "The Maiden who Travels the Planet" that Sephiroth was absorbing Lifestream.
Seriously, why the fu*k do you think he transformed at the end of the game?!

Yes, he was absorbing Lifestream, but really, how much do you think that'd impede his ability to regenerate his body? It took him over five years to completely regenerate. I don't think you really understand that. Let's say that absorbing Lifestream doubled the time it took him to regenerate. That means it'd still take him two and a half years to come back to life...and he'd come back significantly less powerful than he did the last time. Rebuilding his body was a slow process no matter how you look at it. Even if it took him seven days (which it doesn't. It still takes him years), that'd be too long for him to use in combat.

"No regeneration, or weak regeneration"? That's contradicted by FFVII and AC.

Yes. Weak regeneration. It's not contradicted in FFVII or AC. In FFVII, it takes him years to rebuild his body, and in AC, he can't come back to life on his own and has never once shown the ability to regenerate instantly from his wounds.

To attack the head, you need to destroy all his other limbs first(before any one of them regenerates again).

If that's only game-mechanics, then every ability used in battle by all FF villains, are only game-mechanics too.

And it's not a cure spell. When he regenerates, you can clearly read "Head *insert letter here* Revived".

So we'll play by your rules. Kuja bombards every limb with a barrage of Ultimas, Ultimecia freezes time and destroys them all, Neo ExDeath transports him to the Void, and Chaos looks at him funny, causing him to explode. Besides, if Bizarro Sephiroth can regenerate, that doesn't necessarily mean that any of his other forms can regenerate...which they've never shown themselves capable of doing. Bizarro Sephiroth doesn't seem to be that powerful, overall. It's a slow, lumbering beast that seems quite immobile. Since it's the only version of Sephiroth that shows any sort of regeneration (and not a very useful sort of regeneration, either), I doubt it's valid here. I'm willing to concede to you that Bizarro Sephiroth can regenerate, but not that it'd be of much use.

Pre-Nibel Sephiroth was fighting Cloud even with a hole in his spine. That would be only possible if he regenerated, at least, a little.
AC Sephiroth's body was Jenova, meaning that he could regenerate like she/it did in the game. And he DID regenerate his entire body in seconds.

Or it could be that Sephiroth was simply supposed to be portrayed as having an incredibly, impossibly strong will. It's a common trick in anime. "Oh no, he'll never be able to fight after [horrible, lethal injury]!" "Hey, he's still fighting! Incredible!" Besides, if Sephiroth could regenerate, why was he still limping? Why did it never show him regenerating? We really have no reason to believe that he regenerated from that attack, given that he was still in pain and couldn't even walk right. Besides, he wasn't really fighting at all so much as he was carelessly batting Cloud away. Cloud was just a ShinRa MP. The only reason Cloud was able to survive against Seph was because he had a hole through his spine. If Sephiroth had any semblance of his full strength left, he would've destroyed Cloud (a normal human) in a matter of seconds. Hell, this was before he fell into the Lifestream and gained control over J-Cells, so I don't really see what logical reason there could be for him to be able to regenerate.

And if Sephiroth could regenerate in Advent Children, why didn't he? One would think that, if he had any ability such as regeneration, he would've at least tried to use it after getting hit by Omnislash. However, one attack (albeit a pretty strong one) did him in. We never actually see Sephiroth regenerate instantaneously and of his own power. The only time he regenerates in Advent Children, he needs Kadaj and a concentration of J-Cells. He cannot do it on his own. After that, we never see him regenerate from any wound. The only time he actually suffers damage is when he gets hit with Omnislash, which kills him.

You don't make any sense. If Kadaj was the host, then Sephiroth wouldn't need the J-cells in the first place.
Kadaj was a guy composed of spirit-energy. Sephiroth needed a physical body to return, and that's why the SHM were after Jenova's head.

It doesn't matter what Kadaj was. The point is that he needed Kadaj and J-Cells to revive himself. He cannot use this form of regeneration in combat because he cannot do it of his own power. I don't see what you don't get about that. Sephiroth on his own cannot regenerate himself in any workable period of time. Specific circumstances need to be fulfilled, so he can't do it in a fair fight or even in a decent time span. Kadaj and J-Cells are needed. It doesn't matter which is the physical host and which is the spiritual essence, they both have to be there. It's not Sephiroth's ability, it's Kadaj and Jenova working together that brings him back.

It wasn't the "source" of anything. Those were just the cells that composed Jenova's head. It could be her arm, or leg, that it wouldn't make any difference. Jenova is Jenova.

It was the head of Jenova. Jenova actually had a body. J-Cells are cells originating from that body. Therefore, Jenova's body is the source of the J-Cells, and her head could be considered a large concentration of them.

We are using their most powerful forms dude. AC Sephiroth(stated as his most powerful form ever) doesn't need Kadaj to return to life, because Sephiroth is already there.

What are you talking about? Yes, Sephiroth doesn't need Kadaj to return to life the first time, but if one of the villains were to kill Sephiroth, he wouldn't be able to revive himself like you seem to think he would.

Play the game again. The party finds Jenova in the tank, BEFORE Sephiroth kills everyone.
Sephiroth "possesed" Jenova's body, and was using it as a host to kill everyone in the building and free Cloud. That's clearly explained in the Ultimania so please, don't argue against it.

Sephiroth was using Jenova's headless body as a host. Therefore, he was throwing "his" limbs at you. That's clearly explained in the Ultimania so please, don't argue against it.
And that's the proof of Jenova and AC Sephiroth's regeneration.

Then why don't any of his limbs disappear when he throws them? The fact remains, he never shows instantaneous regeneration. If you hit Sephiroth with any given attack, it will do damage, and he will be unable to regenerate from that damage for some nonspecific period of time. However, we do know that it will not happen instantly.

Are you kidding?

He regenerated his entire body from a few cells in a box. The other villains could explode him, that if there are a few cells left, he would regenerate.
The fact Omnislash Version 5 killed him, is just a proof of how powerful the attack was.

You're not basing your argument off of anything but the preconceived notion that you are correct...which you are not. You have absolutely no evidence to support that Sephiroth has any sort of instant regeneration. Fulfill the burden of proof and describe for me an instance in which Sephiroth is damaged by an attack, then regenerates himself instantaneously and before his opponent can deliver another attack. He might've regenerated his body from a few cells in a box, but he needed Kadaj to do it. It's not something he can do on his own, so it's not something he can do in battle. Omnislash Version 5 didn't completely obliterate Sephiroth's body, so why couldn't he simply regenerate from that? It was powerful, yes, but it wasn't that powerful; it didn't hit as hard as, say, Trance Kuja's Ultima or Kefka's Light of Judgment. What's more, there were J-Cells left after the attack (in fact, Sephiroth's entire body was in-tact), so, by your logic, he should have been able to regenerate.

His telekinesis/willpower and Negative Lifestream are powerful enough to kill those villains(if it hits them).
And with exception of Ex-Death and his Void, and Ultimecia's time-freeze, any other villain would have trouble to touch him. The guy was already moving faster than the eyes can see, during CC.

Again, ExDeath banishes him to the Void, Ultimecia freezes time, Kuja overwhelms him with Ultima, and Chaos crushes him with his death god-like powers. Speed isn't an instant victory, it's just one factor. His telekinesis probably couldn't hold any of the supremely powerful villains for any significant period of time, and his control over the Negative Lifestream has never been used offensively. All he used it for was Geostigma and to create a storm. He never uses the Negative Lifestream to attack his opponent.

Sephiroth isn't the strongest FF villain, but he is stronger than you think. I mean, the creators stated that nothing in FFVII is above him, and that includes Omega, Chaos, and other "world destroyer" entities.
And those same creators refers to him as the "new evolution of Jenova". The same Jenova who traveled space, destroying entire planets.

Omega and Chaos aren't world destroyers. Chaos was designed to wipe out all life on the planet, but it never displays the power necessary to wipe them all out with one attack. Omega was simply designed to take all the planet's Lifestream and rocket off into space, which would destroy the planet slowly rather than through raw strength. As for Jenova, I'm pretty sure they meant that she wiped the planet clean of all life rather than destroying planets entirely. If Jenova could completely destroy planets with one swift attack, it wouldn't have needed to trick the Ancients and infect them with disease. It simply would've destroyed the planet altogether and moved on to the next. Jenova probably just killed off all the inhabitants of the planet through disease. Sephiroth is not the weakest villain. He's tied for fifth-strongest with Kefka.

 

[Zeromus]

Exdeath. He would just simply send them to their doom inside of the void.

 

[Icarus]

OK, now let's slowly back out of the Sephiroth/Cloud fan club...
Dark Cloud from FFIII. Zero competition. The thing sealed away two crystals' power and stopped time outside of the Floating Continent.
It took control of one of the three apprentices. And before you destroy the 4 crystals in the world of darkness and revive the Warriors of the Dark, its Particle Beam/FlareWave does 9999 damage, its Tentacles Haste and Protect it. Plus Bad Breath slaps Toad, Silence, Petrify, Paralyze, Sleep, AND Confuse on you. Cloud himself would get his arse kicked.