I had to explain this to someone...

[Fusionist]

Um, this is kind of about the Kingdom Hearts series in general, but if there's a better place to move this thread (or if it should simply be closed all together), then by all means please do so ^^

One of the rare times I managed to socializes with someone beyond the computer for more than 5 minutes occurred a few weeks ago; mainly due to the fact that we ended up talking about games series that we were familiar with. This included the KH series.

When we came upon KH in our discussion, after talking about the general KH stuff, we started on the topic of the FF characters within the game, and this is where things got a little heated.

Not saying we argued, just debated...sort of...It was more me talking down on the guy, but it was all good!

Anyways, this person was convinced that the FF characters we see in the KH games were the same FF character from their respective FF games. That they were literally transported or something from their universe to the KH one.

I, of course, don't believe that and I'm almost positive that what I believe is the truth.

Here's what I believe:

The FF characters we see in the KH games are merely fan service for gamers who recognize them. There is absolutely no connection with the FF characters we see from the original FF games.

There are plenty of examples to back up that explanation.

At the beginning of KH1 we are introduced to Tidus, Wakka, and Selphie who are young children like Sora rather than young adults in their respective games.

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As well, while Tidus and Wakka are both from FFX game, Selphie is from the FFVIII game. How is it possible that characters from different games grew up together?

Then we come upon Traverse Town where more FF characters were introduced. The first one we see is Cid from FFVII. And although he has a likeness to his FFVII counterpart, he's first seen as a Shop Owner before later being revealed as someone who specializes in the Gummi transportation system of the game. Rather insightful on the subject for someone who apparently was transported from his original home world

Then the next, smexy, character we meet is technically named "Leon", however it's even stated within the game that his real name is "Squall". But another thing to say that Leon and Squall are not the same person would be their appearance to say how old they are. Squall was 17 in the FFVIII game, and although we do not know how old he is in KH1, I'd say that Leon is much older than Squall.
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Then we encounter Yuffie. I actually don't have much of an argument to say for her other than the fact that her home is Hallow Bastion, and since it is also the home of "Squall", a character that's supposedly from a different game, how do the both live on their home world if they're from different games?
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Then of course, we meet the lovely Aerith. The beautiful brunette with braided hair and gravity defying bangs~ Such a sweet face, of course she must be the Aerith we all know an love from FFVII. If not for one thing...

She's alive

How is it possible that a dead woman came back to life to be in the KH universe, hm? What of the whole prayer to save the planet in FFVII, eh?

(There is also Cloud and Sephiroth from FFVII, but I'll be getting to them later~)
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Now, let us move onto the FF characters of KH2.

We start off the game as Roxas and meet his buddies before running into the "Disciplinary Committee" of Twilight Town.

Now hold on, why does that seem so familiar? Oh, of course, because that was what Seifer, Raijin, and Fujin were in FFVIII before the game story unfolded.

So obviously, we're going to see young adults lightly scolding these youngsters, right?

Nope, not at all.

Following the trend of KH1 with Tidus, Wakka, and Selphie, here are those three of FFVIII.

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That's right, they've been aged back maybe 3-4 years and clad in teenager gear

Also seen in KH2 is the luvable black mage from FFIX, Vivi. Now although he doesn't have much to say, he is also part of Seifer's "possy" as well; and of course, how does a black mage of FFIX become part of a "possy" from FFVIII?

(I'm not even going to lie; I don't know if this is a KH image or actually from FFIX )

Moving on, we meet another FF character. This one might be a little less known to others, but here is Setzer, the infamous gambler of FFVI. So Setzer, why are you looking far younger than you really are, and clad in purple gear instead of your more dark coloured coat, hm? Participating in a soft-foam clubbing sport rather than gambling with those infamous card skill of yours, eh?
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Now that we're established those character's impossibility of being the same from their original game, let's move onto the more unsure ones.
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The only, THE ONLY, contradictions to what I just said about FF characters not being the same as from their original games would be about Cloud, Sephiroth, and for KH2, Tifa, and also Auron from FFX.

In KH1, the FF characters Leon, Yuffie, Cid, and Aerith were from Hollow Bastion.

Selphie, Wakka and Tidus were from Destiny Island.

In KH2, Seifer, Raijin, Fujin, Vivi, and Setzer were from Twilight Town.

Yuna, Rikku, Paine were fairies in Hallow Bastion.
(And they're case being that the three from FFX-2 weren't little cute fairies. End )

Then we meet Cloud at the Colosseum:

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However, even though you found Cloud at the Colosseum in KH1 , aside from the arguable fact that the Colosseum isn't really a place to "live", Cloud says that he is searching for his light, so it alludes that the place where he is wasn't his home.

At the end of the KH game in the credits, we see Cloud meet up with the other FF characters originally from Hollow Bastion, so gamers assume his home is there with them.

And then KH2 came along.

When we see Cloud for the first time at Hollow Bastion, he coolly states that he didn't care what happened to "this world". Right there, another indication that he had no ties to Hollow Bastion that while was home to the FF characters from KH1 meant nothing to him.

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Then after we get introduced to Sephiroth, who actually has one mandatory scene in KH2 which serves nothing more then to allude to a connection to Cloud; i.e. fanservice.

(Also another thing that makes me doubt; Sephiroth has blue eyes in the KH games; in FFVII series he's got green ones.)

Later on we meet the assertive Tifa who simply states she herself is looking for Cloud. More fanservice, probably a Cloud/Tifa reference if I may boldly state.

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3 characters from the same game and actually seem to have a connection to one another. Hmm, this is quite a pickle I admit.

However, unless you manage to defeat Sephiroth and find Cloud after as you're instructed to do, you do not see the secret cut scene that makes things more complex.

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Cloud and Sephiroth face off and exchange some words that seem rather intuitive and knowing.

Tifa shows up to "protect" Cloud from Sephiroth, boldly stating that Cloud can have her light; light being what Cloud has been searching for of course

Then as if given some strength unleashes an attack on Sephiroth...And the two disappear

Going by the dialog right after, we can safely assume that Cloud and Sephiroth went back to "their home world".

This was a literal example of teleportation, and I'm not sure how to address it

Sephiroth and Cloud went back to their home world that could possibly be the FFVII universe.

Although I have my doubts, I'm still inclined to believe that Sephiroth, Cloud and Tifa are still not the same characters of the FFVII universe though. It's basically that the timing makes no real sense; Tifa and Cloud are in their AC gear, but it doesn't make sense for them to be transported back and forth between universes to fight the same dude.

And the whole deal with Cloud looking for his "light" isn't really addressed in the FFVII series which was more about his guilt-trip and seeking forgiveness at failing to protect the people important to him

And now, a more simpler doubt to address: Auron from FFX

We meet Auron in the Colosseum world; although it's technically the Underworld, but whatever.

Auron was summoned from the dead by Hades to deal with Hercules, but cool guy that he is, he simply states "This is my story, and you're not part of it".

Now, this can kind of be seen as a bit of a grand finale for Auron. Who's to say that at the end of FFX, Auron didn't some how end up in a different universe's afterlife? He could've simply just ended up there after he was sent in FFX.

Ah, and that's where there's a bit of a snag.

When Auron was sent in FFX, that pretty much signalled the end of his very existence. So to be able a complete soul in KH2 seems rather odd; as well, in the credits we see that Auron disperses into pyreflies, probably forgiving himself and going to the after life peacefully.

I guess over-all I'll just say this: fanservice is sometimes really all it is; there is no deeper meaning to it.

Well, I guess that sums up I wanted to say

 

[Donald Trump]

I think that you are right. It's fan service and it's an attempt to widen their target market. The same goes for all the disney characters that appear in KH. It's to try to attract younger people.

Instead of having say six party members. It has three with guest members, eg Squall, Auron and Captain Jack.

It's a just a marketing ploy really.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

I think you're right. A marketing ploy which also happens to mean they don't need to create so many "new" characters. To have them come from their respective final fantasy worlds (which unless we're talking FFX and FFX-2), it hasn't been stated that the world of any Final Fantasy game is the same as another, plus the fact that for nearly all of those characters we have some background knowledge, it's not really feasible that they have been transported. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Gabranth]

That's pretty obvious though....
SE obviously thought that they wouldn't sell as well if they release it without well known characters. Yes, Disney characters are well known but...people would have thought the game would be rather childish if it contained them only.

As for being directly transported to the KH universe....well there's no mention of it in any FF game, which sums up the answer well...

To prove it further, yes, KH 1 didn't have as many FF characters. Seems like SE didn't know just how well it would sell. Once they saw it was rather successful, they released more FF characters, and strengthen the storyline between certain ones. Ie: Cloud and Sephiroth.

 

[eisprinz]

Well, while many of the characters are indeed there for fan-service, one can't simply state that there's absolutely no connection between the original game and their current roles. One can make a distinction between different classes of relationships.

There are characters who are completely divorced from other characters in their respective games, for example Selphie and Leon (Squall), and Tidus and Yuna.

Then there are characters who seem to have rather the same sort of relationship as in their original state, a good example being Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, and Sephiroth. Excepting the fact that Aerith is alive (and that her name is spelled with a new romanization standard), one could say that these characters might have been directly transplanted from FFVII's Planet.

Then, there are some fuzzy cases, such as Leon. Leon keeps his past closely guarded so it can't be said exactly where on the spectrum he lies. He says that Radiant Garden was his home, so it seems as though he's probably one of the characters completely removed from his original state. However, because he says little about his past, one can't say that he grew up independent of any other FFVIII influences (the fact that he has Rinoa-wings as part of his design muddles this up further).

So while the characters are by no means wholesale transplants from original games, there is a spectrum of influence with some characters having no connection to their original game beyond the basics, and others who very well could be direct inserts.

 

[in-VINCE-able]

Oh wow it can be either or.... we gotta remember that KH is about the worlds being destroyed and the inhabitants are either consumed by heartless or survive like Sora did. When sora's world was destroyed he went to Traverse Town whats to say these characters worlds werent destroyed and they ended up on another like Sora, but they all meet each other. As for the three growing up on destiny islands i cant explain that, but we know its a marketing ply basically.

 

[Rezonate]

Hmmmm very interesting and I think you could be right. The Marketing thing is pretty obvious though so yeahhhh. What exactly was the point of this thread?.

 

[Tsuna]

I've never been one to believe that the FF characters were "themselves" in KH. They were from completely different realities. They had different backgrounds, and some of them seemed to even have different "personalities". (If you ask me, Leon/Squall seemed a bit different than Squall of FFVII, but that might just be me.)

There's also the fact that that characters actually know each other even though they're from different installments. Like uh, Yuffie, Aerith, and Leon/Squall all knowing each other intimately even though they're from completely different games, yet somehow they're the same people from the original games themselves? Uh, no, don't think so. (That was a bit confusing, I admit, but hopefully I'm not the only one who can understand the way I think...)

 

[Davey Gaga]

It's funny because, despite this massive post as the opening of the thread, the answer is on the back of the box for Kingdom Hearts. The key word is "cameo", which basically means that they're not the stars of the game but, instead, are just there.

I had no idea there was an opposing opinion on this - it's a known fact that the characters are not the same.

 

[One-winged Demon]

If I remember well Leon and the others live in Traverse town 7 years so they should have changed a lot.

 

[thefranking]

Wow, so the answer was right on the box... Well, when they said that Cloud and Sephiroth went back to their own world, I think it meant their world in Kingdom Hearts. They couldn't of possibly went back to FF7 because Tifa was still there! D=

 

[Laro]

It's very confusing to me as well. But since KH still comes from SE (The Final Fantasy makers!) and since FF series have Final Fantasy in the titles t could be possible that they know each other. Sure, it was never said it in the game but the FF characters are from the same game only a different version.
Another thing, we all know that FF characters in KH are too cartooney. Only Jack Sparrow isn't, because he is actually human. And probably the only one.
I don't know what I just said, but without a doubt that Sephiroth and Cloud went back to their world.

 

[Ancient]

i have to agree that the presence of FF characters are simply for a fanservice. they are there to pump some much needed seriousness into the game itself.

however that maybe one reason that FF characters are included at all, as to be just a serious part of the game as most of the KH games center on Disney characters and their moral influences being mainly, of friendship.

However the FF characters have been being pushed to the forefront of the games more recently, so maybe a FF based world could come into play. Maybe Cloud and Sephiroth's alluded worlds.

 

[kazin12]

The FF characters merely make a cameo in the game.
Whereas the disney characters play a major part as there worlds are in the game.
FF characters are just placed there to attract FF fans to the game to get more sales =]

 

[Emone]

well, in the second kh game they say that they were at or in another world befor kh and then they go back later so, if you mean they came into the kh world then from the ff world then i'd have to agree, otherwise i don't get wat you mean... by literally transported...

 

[Mirage Warrior]

You assholes!
Does every little thing in KH games have to make sense?
These games were made as entertainment!
I don't care about those plot holes!
I play KH and KH2 because I want to be entertained!
Not because I want impotent bastards telling me that ''there are too many plot holes in KH games''.
Who's with me?

 

[Leki]

Obviously fan service. I mean, I don't think the KH storyline would really be integrated with the original FF stories.

It's just..... appearances, to get more people interested. An extra, fun idea! Of course, that's part of what made me buy the games. X)

 

[Serah]

You assholes!
Does every little thing in KH games have to make sense?
These games were made as entertainment!
I don't care about those plot holes!
I play KH and KH2 because I want to be entertained!
Not because I want impotent bastards telling me that ''there are too many plot holes in KH games''.
Who's with me?

Woah, this isn't my section by any means but I will take this opportunity to say that we DO NOT flame people on this forum, and be careful because you will get infracted for something such as this next time it happens.

 

[EVA]

KH is obviously AU. (Alternate Universe) Though the characters look the same, they may have personalities and stories that differ from their original ones.

 

[Ryushikaze]

None of the FF Charas are the same as in their respective FFs. While their stories and personality might have things in common, they are not the same people. They all either hail from Sora's homeworld or Hollow Bastion, NOT their games of origin or the worlds contained therein.