SPOILERS I finally understand why Final Fantasy games are the way they are...

[Mister Goober]

Hello comrades.

I'm new to this forum, but I am not new to the Final Fantasy series. I have a very deep, philosophical bend to my writing style so enjoy it for what it's worth. The particular theme I wanna tackle... is that of the title. lol. This will probably be a long read and will likely contain lots of spoilers. So beware.

Call it destiny, but I believe that everyone (every single one) of us were all meant to "get somewhere". Whether you are an Eastern spirituality enthusiast, an agnostic who believes there "might" be something out there, or a traditional boring Christian like me, we all know that there is a reason for events in our lives. I am an FF14 maniac. Generally, when talking about stuff like which is my favorite FF game, I exclude FF11 and FF14 because they are MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES. It won't take you far to realize that if you put any social element to any game, it immediately and with great degree makes it MUCH more enjoyable. FF14 is no exception... But, as with all things, it will lead to burnout.

I decided, after a long time of resisting the temptation, to finally indulge in Skyrim. Even though Final Fantasy games and Elder Scrolls games are labeled under the all-encompassing umbrella of "roleplaying games", the difference is NIGHT and DAY, with the darkest part of the night and the brightest part of the day. If you haven't played an Elder Scrolls game before, try it. Trust me, it'll feel foreign.

So here I was, starting my brand-new playthrough thinking "Ah, I shall balance my time between this and FF14" only to find out I've spent 100 hours playing it while logging in to FF14 a grand total of ONCE in a long time for like... one hour just to chat with friends. Discord made it unnecessary to log in regularly to talk to them. Damn discord... So yeah. I did Dawnguard, the Imperial side of the Civil War, the Companions questline, the Thieves' Guild questline, got the Wabbajack, and fully-upgraded my Hearthfire mansion. It was a damn blast!

Coinciding with my "little" adventure, I was also studying philosophy. It's a lifelong pursuit that began but recently. Of course I think this is destiny. And as a philosopher, I have the tendency to reflect on everything. And I spent several hours (spread out between intermittent bouts) of reflecting about RPGs in general. What you are about to read is my conclusion.

I've always said that Japanese RPGs need to take something from English RPGs and vice-versa. I've said that Japanese RPGs need to have an element of CHOICE akin to Skyrim's gameplay, and that the ugliness of Oblivion (Elder Scrolls 4) need to learn from FF games on how to design a damn NPC into something that doesn't look like the bastard child of Jar Jar Binks and an avocado. And here were my thoughts about what I would do if I was the Naoki Yoshida of FF14.

Have a choice of faction. Like in World of Warcraft, we should be able to choose... Either become Hydaelyn's champion or the harbinger of Garlemald. And for crying out loud give us a choice of BUILD. The "freedom" associated with being "free" to choose which combat class to play is incredibly deceiving because each and every choice forces you to play in a manner that must affirm the preferences of other players. People in FF14 will verbally murder you if you don't fit into an agreeable playstyle. And for God's sake give consequences to stuff! If we choose this path there should be a difference! Here's FF14 in a nutshell: Player X does A, B, C and eventually D. Player everyone-else does A, C, B, and eventually D. That is basically the extent of the game's variety.

And then I did some more thinking... I eventually got back to FF14 and while I was hammering away the main questline (which is like... EVERYTHING in FF14), my mind wandered. It began to take a different path...

You see, throughout my gaming life, I've never ever encountered an English RPG that was more memorable and nostalgic than my original experiences with PS-One Japanese RPGs. FF8 especially. No English RPG I've played (in the era of PS3/XB360 and beyond) matches the kind of emotion and attachment I felt when I experienced Final Fantasy VIII for the first time. And it clicked.

The reason why "these" (FF games) have that "effect" (powerful emotions) compared to English RPGs is that THAT is exactly what the developers of these games were going after.

I used to (TRY) writing novels. My guidebook was Stephen King's On Writing, and in that book, Stephen asserted that the absolute most important element of any story is... well... THE STORY. It's not the characters, it's not the flowery descriptions of how the character dresses, nor the brilliantly plotted plot courtesy of the cleverness of the writer, but THE STORY and nothing else. And as you have experienced, in a game like FF14 and FF8, you are FORCED to submerge yourself to the depths of Ultimecia's and Zenos yae Galvus's arcs. You have no choice. And in a game that has such a format, it will only work if the story is good. The effect, when successful, are characters that are endearing, twists that slap the cheeks of your heart, and the anticipation of finally seeing Aerith Gainsborough die in HD. Final Fantasy games have that trademark. We can argue all day that their trademark are their graphics, but no. Any game can match the graphics of FF games given the technology, but the flavor of them comes from artwork. The content.

In Final Fantasy 14, Tataru who is like the most trivial primary character in the story will always be more memorable than Ulfric Stormcloak.

That is all...

What do you think? Responses are appreciated!

 

[Dionysos]

Fantastic post and a great angle!

While I lack considerable experience with Western RPGs (or even JRPGs outside of Final Fantasy), I think that what you say about Final Fantasy is pretty accurate.

It reminds me of this old quote from the founder of Final Fantasy:

I remember that quote was even used by the marketing department of Square Enix at one point as it appeared in Final Fantasy XI trailers.

Hironobu Sakaguchi’s era of Final Fantasy may be over, but I think that honest sentiment still applies. The Final Fantasy games resonate with players mainly for the story, not the gameplay, graphics, or anything else like that. The only other thing which I would place equal to story would be the music, but the music here is used to help tell the story. The music and the story complement each other to solidify the experience in our memories.

While gameplay styles and fads change over the years, and Final Fantasy has experimented a great deal in these areas, it is ultimately the stories which people look back on with fondness.

Good gameplay can help keep the player engaged with the story, but if the story is genuinely good anyway then all of this becomes unimportant. When games have tried to put too much emphasis on gameplay it has put people off. One of the main criticisms of FFXV is that the story was quite short and padded out with sidequests and world traversal gimmicks. When the story mattered in that game (and it was still a great story), it seemed to be over in a flash.

While it would be nice if the franchise could learn some tricks from Western RPGs, the core story and the stories of characters certainly need to lead in order for Final Fantasy to truly mean something to its fans.

 

[Mister Goober]

Anybody else? lol. I'm back!

Thanks Dionysos.

 

[Dionysos]

Anybody else? lol. I'm back!

Thanks Dionysos.

I think this got lost/buried. Or maybe people would have loved to have said hi but didn't have much else to add about the rest because you explained it all quite perfectly in your original post.


I've just re-read it and picked up that you've studied philosophy. Have you by any chance read the book Final Fantasy and Philosophy: The Ultimate Walkthrough?

Not only does it have one of the best cover art pieces I have EVER seen in a book, but it contains a number of interesting articles comparing Final Fantasy with philosophical themes. It is quite old now though (2009), so I do hope for a second volume to cover the more recent games. I for one have noticed quite a bit of Plato in FFXIV's Shadowbringers expansion, in addition to Thomas More (incidentally my recent article on our home page covers some of it).

This is one of the many ways in which Square Enix have truly done a grand job at building the world's lore, its characters and pretty much anything that matters. There are multiple layers to some of these games and I think sometimes players (the ones only interested in gameplay experiences) can sometimes miss a lot.

 

[Vivi-Gamer]

For me, what makes Final Fantasy so engaging IS the characters. For instance with Vivi, one of the reasons he is so compelling is not necessarily the actions he takes within the main story but what is explored within his sub-plot. The themes of existentialism are brilliantly portrayed through Vivi's journey from questioning himself after seeing the horrible goings on beneath the surface of the innocent Dali Village to finding the Black Mage Village where many have defied their fate as weapons and remain in peace - So glad that place wasn't destroyed, that would have been horrible. If anything I find Vivi's journey more compelling than the overall story.

Another example is Final Fantasy VIII, I love it but the stories presentation is a bit weak - I think they could have integrated Ultimecia a bit better in earlier sections - Disc 1 is particularly slow story wise. But what makes Final Fantasy VIII stand out to me (besides having my favourite Art Direction within any media) is Squall's journey. As an introvert myself his hardships are very relatable and following his journey with the insight of his inner thoughts was very engaging. Then later finally seeing him able to open up more was a joy. One of the weaker parts of VIII (besides that horrific Orphanage scene) is the lack of back story or attention given to the other characters. Quistis could really have been left at Balamb after the Dollet mission and it would have made no difference. You get a bit of insight when seeing Zell's Home or meeting Riona's father but this pales in comparison to VII where each character has brilliant scenario writing in their hometown. Nanaki's discovery in Cosmo Canyon, Cid's conflict with Shinra in Rocket Town, Yuffie's thievery leading you to Wutai & Barret's sibling tragedy in North Corel/Dessert Prison. None of these moments necessarily enhance the over-arcing story but the time they indulge into the characters is what gives them the chance to be endearing.

I think Scenario Writing is overlooked in many modern games, Final Fantasy XII neglected this very much. I even replayed it with The Zodiac Age release and still had the same issue. When would arrive at a new location, I would hope for something interesting to happen but often nothing would and then would have to pass through in hope for the next location. Without much character insight or frequent story development all I remember is trudging through landscapes. It's one of the most frustrating gaming experiences I've ever had.

Another problem I have with a lot of JRPG's is the silent protagonist/Blank Avatar. I've spoken about this often already but it really disengages me from the experience. I understand the concept, having a blank character in-game to allow the character to step into the experience but all i see is a blank character who has no involvement in what is happening. Xenoblde Chonricles X was the more recent offender in this instance, where the previous game was one of the most engaging JRPG's I've played probably since Final Fantasy X (That's very high praise!), the 2nd game (XCX) chose to have a silent protagonist and in the opening of the game you see him stand there looking blank as the other characters talk around him - which only enhances the flaw as it just seems so unnatural. I've had this issue with some many 'great' JRPG's like Persona, Chrono Tigger, Breath of Fire & even Zelda. I find the main character in these games is understated, uninteresting and with little to no backstory, all to let the player jump into them shoes and go.

The thing is it doesn't have to be that way, Resident Evil 7 is a recent example of a minimal character who still has presence within the story. He responds and reacts actively when an event or situation happens, yet we don't ever see the character as the game ins in a 1st person perspective. While the story isn't about Ethan we still follow his journey with him wanting to save his partner Mia from the madness of the Baker Household.

I think Scenario Writing is key, it's interesting how the later chapters of XV went more linear but the scenario writing was more active. Final Fantasy XIII is often criticized for its linearity but I found it constantly engaging throughout the whole 50 hours playthrough. I hope the next FF game really gives the characters time to have their backstories explained and explore by focusing on their own troubles much like I mentioned with VII.

 

[Dionysos]

For me, what makes Final Fantasy so engaging IS the characters. For instance with Vivi, one of the reasons he is so compelling is not necessarily the actions he takes within the main story but what is explored within his sub-plot. The themes of existentialism are brilliantly portrayed through Vivi's journey from questioning himself after seeing the horrible goings on beneath the surface of the innocent Dali Village to finding the Black Mage Village where many have defied their fate as weapons and remain in peace - So glad that place wasn't destroyed, that would have been horrible. If anything I find Vivi's journey more compelling than the overall story.

Another example is Final Fantasy VIII, I love it but the stories presentation is a bit weak - I think they could have integrated Ultimecia a bit better in earlier sections - Disc 1 is particularly slow story wise. But what makes Final Fantasy VIII stand out to me (besides having my favourite Art Direction within any media) is Squall's journey. As an introvert myself his hardships are very relatable and following his journey with the insight of his inner thoughts was very engaging. Then later finally seeing him able to open up more was a joy. One of the weaker parts of VIII (besides that horrific Orphanage scene) is the lack of back story or attention given to the other characters. Quistis could really have been left at Balamb after the Dollet mission and it would have made no difference. You get a bit of insight when seeing Zell's Home or meeting Riona's father but this pales in comparison to VII where each character has brilliant scenario writing in their hometown. Nanaki's discovery in Cosmo Canyon, Cid's conflict with Shinra in Rocket Town, Yuffie's thievery leading you to Wutai & Barret's sibling tragedy in North Corel/Dessert Prison. None of these moments necessarily enhance the over-arcing story but the time they indulge into the characters is what gives them the chance to be endearing.

I think Scenario Writing is overlooked in many modern games, Final Fantasy XII neglected this very much. I even replayed it with The Zodiac Age release and still had the same issue. When would arrive at a new location, I would hope for something interesting to happen but often nothing would and then would have to pass through in hope for the next location. Without much character insight or frequent story development all I remember is trudging through landscapes. It's one of the most frustrating gaming experiences I've ever had.

Another problem I have with a lot of JRPG's is the silent protagonist/Blank Avatar. I've spoken about this often already but it really disengages me from the experience. I understand the concept, having a blank character in-game to allow the character to step into the experience but all i see is a blank character who has no involvement in what is happening. Xenoblde Chonricles X was the more recent offender in this instance, where the previous game was one of the most engaging JRPG's I've played probably since Final Fantasy X (That's very high praise!), the 2nd game (XCX) chose to have a silent protagonist and in the opening of the game you see him stand there looking blank as the other characters talk around him - which only enhances the flaw as it just seems so unnatural. I've had this issue with some many 'great' JRPG's like Persona, Chrono Tigger, Breath of Fire & even Zelda. I find the main character in these games is understated, uninteresting and with little to no backstory, all to let the player jump into them shoes and go.

The thing is it doesn't have to be that way, Resident Evil 7 is a recent example of a minimal character who still has presence within the story. He responds and reacts actively when an event or situation happens, yet we don't ever see the character as the game ins in a 1st person perspective. While the story isn't about Ethan we still follow his journey with him wanting to save his partner Mia from the madness of the Baker Household.

I think Scenario Writing is key, it's interesting how the later chapters of XV went more linear but the scenario writing was more active. Final Fantasy XIII is often criticized for its linearity but I found it constantly engaging throughout the whole 50 hours playthrough. I hope the next FF game really gives the characters time to have their backstories explained and explore by focusing on their own troubles much like I mentioned with VII.

I guess this relates to the debate between gameplay/ludology versus story/narratology both when it comes to game studies scholarship and also the fan experience. At the extreme end of the ludology angle, the story is secondary and could be swapped with something else entirely and not really matter much. Some people just like the feeling of playing games.

I'm definitely more on the narrative side of things myself. I play games for the story (and the sidestories of the characters and world-building, etc). Just like I might read a book or watch a film for the story. I also agree that the character storyline are just as strong (if not even more memorable) as the main plotlines. There are sometimes self-contained sidestories within these games which I love. When I play a game I sometimes even take notes. The gameplay to me is a secondary bonus and not the priority. The gameplay sometimes helps to make the experience more smooth, but if the story is grand then I'm likely to make a lot of memories in the game and get a lot out of it. I haven't actually replayed many Final Fantasy games all the way through, but after playing them once (or twice, etc) I have thought about the stories very often throughout my entire life. I expect I always will as FF is a huge part of me.

There is an inseparable relationship between gameplay and story in video games, of course, and it does depend on the type of game (fun cartoony platforming games like Crash Bandicoot aren't intended to be examined deeply in the way that people might examine a novel, for example), but Final Fantasy is definitely a narrative experience for me. For a long time I'd assumed that would be the case for most, but I know there are many people who are more interested in the gameplay mechanics and stats, etc. This is particularly true with the MMOs where there are many people who skip all of the cutscenes and dialogue, yet they still enjoy playing the game, running dungeons and fighting hard bosses, etc. It's interesting to see how people think of the games and get their enjoyment out of them in completely different ways.