Do you see Cloud as a terrorist?

[apcloud08]

Cloud isnt a terrorist. I mean at least he didnt burn down an entire town

 

[Dionysos]

Eco-terrorism is usually damage done to property or machines instead of humans. (I'm not saying they never hurt people, but it's usually not the goal.) Someone's going to have to refresh my memory, because it's been a while - how empty was the Mako reactor when they destroyed it? When they set the bomb, did people evacuate? I know there were people there to begin with because of the random battles. Anyway, not taking any measures to evacuate the reactor would put them on the pretty extreme end of eco-terrorism, I'd have to say.

They killed quite a few people in that attack. I'm not sure if they meant people inside the reactor (I'm sure there were some in there), but probably the people that lived around and near the reactor. It was quite a busy sector I think. The blast would probably have caused some significant damage down below as well. Falling parts and debris might have killed people below as I believe the reactors were pretty powerful. An explosion was probably enough to blow a hole into the plate.

As for the question... I wouldn't say Cloud was a terrorist, though he aided their cause. AVALANCHE were no doubt a terrorist group who wanted to take down Shinra by use of violence and stop them from draining the planets lifestream.

Cloud however didn't care about that cause... Or at least he liked to pretend he didn't. He just wanted to get the job done, take his money and leave. He was working as a sort of mercenary... Whether he did jobs for other people as well isn't mentioned as far as I know. He is pretty much living the life that

Spoiler

Zack had intended to live after leaving SOLDIER

. However I believe Tifa had found and asked Cloud for his help personally.. So it isn't as if he just let himself get hired by anybody. On the other hand he is eager to get his pay from Barret.

So yeah... Cloud is closer to a mercenary, but not a terrorist. The group he was supporting (but didn't care for their cause at the begining) were terrorists, but since he was just doing a job I don't believe it applies to Cloud as well as he just didn't feel strongly enough.

 

[HighwindPilot]

To be honest, I kind of thought that was the point of the beginning of this game... to put the player behind this eco-terrorist group instead of clearly defined, horse-riding heroes. Like HighwindPilot said, it's not completely black and white, so it makes the player think.

It was, and you're right. Amongst many things, FFVII dealt out a lot of controversy regarding ethics and politics of individuals or factions. It's made very clear from the beginning that its no story of simple "good and evil". Not only was this the point of the beginning, but this was explored often throughout the game, particularly through Shinra, or characters like Barret and Cait Sith.

Eco-terrorism is usually damage done to property or machines instead of humans. (I'm not saying they never hurt people, but it's usually not the goal.) Someone's going to have to refresh my memory, because it's been a while - how empty was the Mako reactor when they destroyed it? When they set the bomb, did people evacuate? I know there were people there to begin with because of the random battles. Anyway, not taking any measures to evacuate the reactor would put them on the pretty extreme end of eco-terrorism, I'd have to say.

Good catch on the "Eco" part, as not many seemed to clarify as much. As far as the casualties involved, it's true that the random encounters were you taking out the Shinra soldiers that tried to stop you. But I don't think the group did anything more than what was necessary. They never established it, but based on the 10 minute time limit for evacuation, in addition to all the Shinra infantry men who pursued Cloud, I think it can be said that they gave the people in the reactor time to escape.

I remember there were also plenty of times later in the game, in which your party would or could decide to let things go rather than fight. So I don't think they ever had any intent to push things to the extreme of mass homocide, not even Barret, which was shown during his whole subplot with Dine.

That brings me back to Cloud. I like him as much as the next player, but it's not as if he didn't know what was going on. He's a smart guy. He may not have condoned it or cared at all, but he knew there would be extreme property damage and more than a few deaths, accidental or not. Because he's not fighting on behalf of his own beliefs, I won't call him a terrorist. I will say this - if this happened in real life right now, and Cloud joined any terrorist group just because they'd pay him well, he would be called a terrorist by most people.

This is true, but I think the fact that Cloud was so objective or apathetic about it all is what set him apart. True, he knew what he was getting into, but to him, it was a job that he was getting paid for. He clarified, even to Rufus, that he was a mercenary, and that really kind of emphasized that he had no connection of motives to AVALANCHE's activities.

By some definitions, he's not under act of terrorism, because he didn't intend to "intimidate or coerce societies or governments for ideological or political reasons", or have any kind of "political purpose" in his assistance of AVALANCHE.

Though yes, it's very true that he'd get tried in our society for the associative factor. But due to the fact that Shinra was the government, considered corrupt by numbers of people, some might consider AVALANCHE heroes. VII was certainly never flat.

Great post, by the way.

 

[Vladislak]

Nonsense. Terrorism is, by definition, used to instill fear in people. Despite the fact that AVALANCHE is called a terrorist group, their goal was to do damage, not to coerce Shinra into giving up.

They aimed for the reactors and hit hard and fast, then retreated. Sounds more like basics of guerrilla warfare than flat out terrorism. Not that guerrilla warfare and terrorism can't be used at the same time mind you, but I just don't see it as terrorism.
Many terrorists also tend to go for civilian targets. Instill fear in the people and they won't really support the government.

But anyway, even if it were flat out terrorism, they're saving the planet from an evil cooperation. That's a nice thing.


Besides, Cloud didn't give a @#%^ about AVALANCHE. He just wanted money, he was a mercenary. In fact, if I recall, Tifa later explained that Cloud wasn't even going to have anything to do with AVALANCHE until she said he'd be paid. Heck, Cloud was heartless enough to demand more money after the job was done (which came directly from Barret's pocket, and was originally going to be used for Marlene's schooling).
So Cloud really had no personal affiliation with AVALANCHE. It was just business.

 

[Cecily]

They never established it, but based on the 10 minute time limit for evacuation, in addition to all the Shinra infantry men who pursued Cloud, I think it can be said that they gave the people in the reactor time to escape.

That's what I thought. Since they live in Midgar, I thought they'd know better than to purposely punish people who just happened to be in the building or work in the reactor for a living - maybe because there aren't that many ways to make a living in Midgar, especially if they live below the plate.

Great post, by the way.

Thanks!

Nonsense. Terrorism is, by definition, used to instill fear in people. Despite the fact that AVALANCHE is called a terrorist group, their goal was to do damage, not to coerce Shinra into giving up.

You're probably right in that no matter what Avalanche did, they probably weren't going to instill much fear in Shin-ra. But, couldn't you say the ideal goal (not the realistic goal, but the ideal one) would be to eventually "coerce Shin-ra into giving up" draining Mako from the planet? They do enough damage to enough reactors, and it costs Shin-ra more money to rebuild them than the money they make by continuing to sell energy. Again, I don't think Avalanche could ever do that much damage, but I'm talking idealistically here.