Christianity and Paganism...

[Demon]

I realized something:

1. Final Fantasy takes ideas from paganism.

2. Christianity takes ideas from... the same source.

3. Final Fantasy ends up looking, at times, Christian.

Ignoring the Final Fantasy theme, my question is... why does Christianity have paganism, or end up looking like it does? What is going on, if anything?

I am a Christian however. I'm just willing, to perhaps, take unordinary views on the subject so long as it doesn't conflict with what I think is right.

 

[Sir Kenneth]

Cultural and religious asimilation. It's much easier to get a society to adopt new beliefs if they don't differ too much from their old ones (people are generally happier if they can have their cake AND eat it). Hence an old pagan tradition like winter solstice became Christmas and lots of other pagan holidays and beliefs were drafted into the Christian faith to make it a bit easier for people to swallow. Simple as that.

 

[Demon]

It's much easier to get a society to adopt new beliefs if they don't differ too much from their old ones (people are generally happier if they can have their cake AND eat it).

Yes, they are.

Hence an old pagan tradition like winter solstice became Christmas and lots of other pagan holidays and beliefs were drafted into the Christian faith to make it a bit easier for people to swallow.

Yes. I'm familiar with this.

Simple as that.

Says who? Who says that that's the only occurrence?

 

[Harlequin]

2. Christianity takes ideas from... the same source.

No it doesn't. It's built on from the Old Testament and the teachings of Christ.

why does Christianity have paganism, or end up looking like it does? What is going on, if anything?

Please reference the paganism. Thanks.

Hence an old pagan tradition like winter solstice became Christmas and lots of other pagan holidays and beliefs were drafted into the Christian faith to make it a bit easier for people to swallow. Simple as that.

Christmas is man made.

Calling it Christmas and saying it's a part of the 'faith' of Christianity is akin to me standing in a drive way and calling myself a car.

 

[Demon]

No it doesn't. It's built on from the Old Testament and the teachings of Christ.

There are various ideas in Christianity. Many contradict each other.

How can you say it's taken from the Old Testament and Christ's teachings, then? The Bible says that God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Harlequin]

There are various ideas in Christianity. Many contradict each other.

How can you say it's taken from the Old Testament and Christ's teachings, then? The Bible says that God is not the author of confusion.

I wasn't referencing the ideas in Christianity, I was referencing the idea of Christianity.

The Old Testament is part of the reference for which Christianity is based. It makes up a large part of the Bible. Would you disagree?

 

[Demon]

The Old Testament is part of the reference for which Christianity is based. It makes up a large part of the Bible. Would you disagree?

Would I agree that the Old Testament is one of the main references for which Christianity is based? No. Christianity is based mostly on the New Testament, perceptions of it... and probably some third thing.

Would I agree that the Old Testament makes up a large part of the Bible? Yes.

 

[Harlequin]

No but... the Bible is the entire reference. The Old Testament is just as relevant as the New.

The Old Testament prophesised the arrival of the Messiah. The Bible isn't the Bible without the whole reference. Surely you can't just renounce one part and keep another? How does that make sense?

 

[Demon]

the Bible is the entire reference.

I agree.

The Old Testament is just as relevant as the New.

To whom?

Surely you can't just renounce one part and keep another? How does that make sense?

Make sense to whom?

 

[Harlequin]

To whom?


Make sense to whom?

To you man!

No but seriously how can we trust that Jesus Christ is indeed the Messiah without referencing the OT as he was prophesised in?

In simpler terms, what reason would you, FinalCzen, have for cutting out the Old Testament as reference?

 

[Demon]

In simpler terms, what reason would you, FinalCzen, have for cutting out the Old Testament as reference?

1. My problems, if any, are with Christianity.

2. Unlike you, I don't believe Christianity to be heavily based on the Old Testament.

3. With that said, there are no clear problems I have with the Old Testament. Well it's possible there could be, but that's a whole other subject.

 

[Harlequin]

1. My problems, if any, are with Christianity.

2. Unlike you, I don't believe Christianity to be heavily based on the Old Testament.

3. With that said, there are no clear problems I have with the Old Testament. Well it's possible there could be, but that's a whole other subject.

Hold on a second I didn't say Christianity was heavily based on the Old Testament, only that it was 'built' from there and continued into the New Testament.

Christianity is the belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. When he was born some believed him to be as such and that is where the term 'Christian' was used. Without the backdrop of the Old Testament how could we have the reference? It's in the Bible for a reason.

What is Christianity to you? How would you define it?

 

[Demon]

What is Christianity to you? How would you define it?

Christianity is a set of beliefs that have survived over time. On the one hand, you've got the Catholic church... usually its ancient in its teachings. Then you've got a bunch of people called Protestants, they are a newer invention. Then you've got more charismatic beliefs started by certain religious leaders.

Usually the churches focus largely on the New Testament in their themes and such, saying that without Jesus there wouldn't be a church.

On the level of information, Christianity is a set of historical facts that is open to scrutiny. I start to rely on simple ideas such as "believing that I'm a theist" to guide my thinking.

Many Christians will speak of loving Jesus through a form of faith, trying to convert others to the church or their way of thinking in the process. Most call this being a Christian, when not speaking of "Christian" in a church sense.

 

[Harlequin]

Christianity is a set of beliefs that have survived over time. On the one hand, you've got the Catholic church... usually its ancient in its teachings.

So who was the Pope when Jesus was crucified?

Where is the word Catholicism referenced in the Bible?

Then you've got a bunch of people called Protestants, they are a newer invention.

You mean Christians who were against the teachings of Catholicism? I think the two have been around for as long as each other.

There is one belief that defines Christianity. That Christ is the Son of God.

The Bible tells us Christians are one body. That we are all one. Not that we are divided. These denominations are inflicted by man.

 

[Demon]

So who was the Pope when Jesus was crucified?

Some believe Peter to be the first pope. While others say that, well, the pope came a little time after that. These two beliefs have a certain contrast to them.

 

[Harlequin]

Some believe Peter to be the first pope. While others say that, well, the pope came a little time after that. These two beliefs have a certain contrast to them.

And what does the Bible say about that? Because surely that's the only reference we can take from?

 

[Demon]

And what does the Bible say about that? Because surely that's the only reference we can take from?

Certain verses do seem to say that Peter is the founder of the church. And, well, the most evidence points toward that being the Catholic church I think.

Then again, I'm not a theologian or historian.

 

[Harlequin]

Certain verses do seem to say that Peter is the founder of the church. And, well, the most evidence points toward that being the Catholic church I think.

Then again, I'm not a theologian or historian.

No.

Christ is the Church. Christ is God. God is the Church. Man is the Church.

We are one in Infinity.

Peter did no such thing. But he did. Such is the paradox of Infinity.

 

[The Illusive Man]

heres my take on it:

Most relgion in the west was born during the Dark ages, following the fall of the Roman Empire as most countries across Europe began to fall into deep poverty, sickness was rife and the average person only lived to there mid thirties striken by illnesses that today we take for granted (back then the common cold was known to be the biggest killer!) Several of the Warlords that seized some of Romans former wealth began to fight amongst one another to vie for superiority, wereas the more peaceful "so called" Barbaric tribes often sought knowledge and ways to cure the sickness. These more peaceful tribes would be known in later days as the Celts, and would be persecuted by the church as devil incarnates and nearly driven from existance by the Inquisition.

The remaining part of the fallen Rome formed into the Byzantine empire which would have a breakoff sect known as the papal states, who quickly grew to wealth and power and began to preach the word of "God" to the less civilised nations of Europe.

They used this power to rally more under the banner of "God" and thus the first true Churches of Christanic faith began to form, uniting the downtrodden and wealthy alike, banding them together through one of the greatest plights mankind had faced, faith in an unforseen force helped people push through the dark times and into the new ages and remained a powerful force in peoples lives up until the industrial revolution when science became the new focus.

But there was a dark side to this new Christianic faith, often the preachers would threaten terrible consequence to those that didnt follow the faith, there were several holy wars orchestrated by the very man that was supposed to be a man of peace, people brutally burned by there thousands because there thought did not fit the percieved view of the Church and constant power struggles between Kings and Popes of the age.

If the fall of Rome was such a dark time for the world, early Christianity was the darkness before dawn, it was the very epitamy of the true evil of mankind and how Power and Wealth above all else was covetted in the age, not so different from modern society, except lawsuits and pens are the new swords with shares and boards of directors being the new shields and armor.

Paganism wasnt much different in its early days either, Druids often demanded sacrifice to appease the God's, wars were fought under the banners of Odin, Boghdan and many others, for people of peace, even the pagans fell to the seductive callings of power and wealth.

But more to the point of the discussion:

Paganism was the earliest faith and bore many of its routes from ancient Roman relgion of worshiping several deities, but unlike Romes worshiping of Pluto and Mars, Pagans worshipped fallen heroes whom they believed had achieved Godhood, So each and every relgion does draw several of its aspects from each other, and there are many facts that tie the religions together through there similarities and similar paths to the Religous beliefs they have become today.

The point more than anything in my post, as Tlr as it is, Relgion was always created by those that had/seeked power and wealth as a way to control those that did not have such, it still holds a place in todays world, but as science is the new choice of explanation, its role has become somewhat diminished in todays world, but to some still serves an important part of there lives.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

Most forms of paganism is due to uneducated, blasphemic people. When people say 'the oldest religions' and such, they are referring to barbaric people in a barbaric world. There was no education and a mans life was dirt cheap. The reason why the Bible is held in such high regard because it is very, very intelligent and unrivaled by any other form of ancient record. I mean, it was practically the first book to ever be duplicated.
It's responsible for dismay, dismissal, death, greed, tyranny, death, fear, and, oh yeah... peace.
Buddhism is one of the oldest religions, and I respect it because it's the only one that makes sense when you think of barbaric people: they worshipped no God. And their religion has no room for misinterpretation, such as the list of things above. It can't be proven right or wrong by even the smallest context<<< very impressive for coming from practical cavemen (pun intended)