Bad Points Of FFXIII

[RioDragon]

I hope I'm not poking the proverbial dragon in the eye here by saying this to an admin, but how is disliking it from what weve seen any different from all the fans who think it looks amazing based only on what we've seen? The only difference Is that I have a dissenting opinion. They have as much reason to assume its going to be good as I have that it will be bad. Yet I'm the one getting called out for such behavior.

I love ya, Manderz, but I gotta agree. xD All we're doing is countering the hype before it gets to FF VII proportions. Me and Zerokku are just trying to get people around here to think more objectively about the new FF's and their place in RPGs as a whole rather than just as part of the supposedly 'all-engulfing Squeenix machine'.

I still have to argue that Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon are better in my personal opinion than anything Square-Enix has crapped out. Including FF XII, which got a 'perfect' score from Famitsu. So that alone tell you that reviews aren't always accurate, as FF XII was far from a perfect game in any respects. Not that any game is perfect, but to give a whole score like that on a 40 point scale is like screaming that Famitsu are paid for giving Squeenix good ratings. So critics can be very unreliable, as can jaded fans, like in the case of FF VII.

Like Zerokku, though, if you don't want any real discussion, I'm fine with leaving the thread be.

 

[Serah]

I love ya, Manderz, but I gotta agree. xD All we're doing is countering the hype before it gets to FF VII proportions. Me and Zerokku are just trying to get people around here to think more objectively about the new FF's and their place in RPGs as a whole rather than just as part of the supposedly 'all-engulfing Squeenix machine'.

This has hardly become anything like FFVII has, Jon. You guys might be trying to get people to think more objectively about it, but by you guys trashing it and putting it down when it hasn't even been brought out yet isn't going to make anybody think the way you do. Just like the people who aren't hyped about it, the people who are, aren't going to change their opinons. However the more you bash it, the more riled up and angry the people who are looking forward to it are going to become. Constantly repeating yourself that you hate it or think it's shit because SE is making it isn't going to make anybody think differently than what they already think in regards to this game.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Oh I love the irony. You called me out for saying a game doesn't look good without having played it, and here you are doing the same.

Also, LOL if you actually take "professional" review scores seriously. If you're even remotely familiar with the industry you should know to take them with a grain of salt.

I know fine well that reviews shouldn't be taken that seriously, difference is however, I at least have some sort of evidence to prove that Mistwalker games aren't that special, therefore, neither is Sakaguchi. You on the other hand have nothing but trailers and slight bits of information which are impossible to make a judgement on.

Not to mention you dont think FF and half the squeenix properties get a free pass because of their names? XII got 10s and 9s from tons of "Professional" reviewers, and yet actual fan opinion would probably be a fair bit less.

I don't think FFXII was by any means a perfect game, and I wouldn't deny that FF may have a slight bias because of the name, then again everyone other than 360 fanatics know that half of the professional reviewers are 360 biased anyway and boost the score up, Halo much?, and as far as I'm aware Mistwalker only make 360 next gen games. Therefore, we could lower those
game scores again and Sakaguchi is even less special than he already is.

So given my previous analogy, I should wait till I have crap in my hands before I declare it as shit?

Again, you're jumping to the conclusion that it's going to be shit before you've played it.

And I do have an idea. Theyve given us information, and what theyve given us doesn't look good.

We don't have enough information to judge it being shit though.

Is it a bit of a stretch for me to assume the rest of the game is going to be as ridiculous as what we've seen so far? Probably, but I'm familiar enough with the genre to have an idea of what the end result will be, particularly with a series that isn't exactly great at changing things up.

Just because you've played RPGs in the past doesn't mean FFXIII will be the same, that's what you fail to realise.

With that I feel safe in making an assumption now. One that you'd know I'm willing and hoping will change if youve bothered to actually read all of my posts rather than getting annoyed at the fact I'm not impressed with the mediocrity presented so far.

Considering I've presented arguments against half your posts, it would be apparent I have read them, just the whole "it's shit" and "nothing new" doesn't work.

but how is disliking it from what weve seen any different from all the fans who think it looks amazing based only on what we've seen? The only difference Is that I have a dissenting opinion. They have as much reason to assume its going to be good as I have that it will be bad. Yet I'm the one getting called out for such behavior.

Because you're being completely pessimistic throughout this entire thread presuming things are going to be like this or like that when you don't know, that's the difference.

 

[RioDragon]

I know fine well that reviews shouldn't be taken that seriously, difference is however, I at least have some sort of evidence to prove that Mistwalker games aren't that special, therefore, neither is Sakaguchi. You on the other hand have nothing but trailers and slight bits of information which are impossible to make a judgement on.

I don't think FFXII was by any means a perfect game, and I wouldn't deny that FF may have a slight bias because of the name, then again everyone other than 360 fanatics know that half of the professional reviewers are 360 biased anyway and boost the score up, Halo much?, and as far as I'm aware Mistwalker only make 360 next gen games. Therefore, we could lower those
game scores again and Sakaguchi is even less special than he already is.

Again, you're jumping to the conclusion that it's going to be shit before you've played it.

We don't have enough information to judge it being shit though.

Just because you've played RPGs in the past doesn't mean FFXIII will be the same, that's what you fail to realise.

Considering I've presented arguments against half your posts, it would be apparent I have read them, just the whole "it's shit" and "nothing new" doesn't work.


Because you're being completely pessimistic throughout this entire thread presuming things are going to be like this or like that when you don't know, that's the difference.

Well, the thread is about the 'Bad Points of FF XIII'. And to argue against it, you don't have any proof either. As you said, all we have are trailers and info. I'm normally a damn good judge of things early on though, and I am rarely mistaken on how I feel a game will work out. For example, I'm a huge Fallout fan. Fallout fans bashed Fallout 3 throughout its creation because it wasn't done by its original team and wasn't done in the typical isometric view of Diablo/Fallout/Baldur's Gate/etc. So they assumed that Fallout 3 would have nothing right in scope of the universe and feel of the previous games, but they had absolutely no proof of any of it from the content provided.

I believe there's enough information scattered about that one can put two and two together and make four when it comes to FF XIII. From what I've heard of the basic layout of the plot, the game will be basically a rip off of Babylon 5, like FF XII, which was a rip-off of Star Wars, even so far as its battle system, which was basically straight from Star Wars: KotOR. Thankfully, Babylon 5 had no games for Squeenix to steal a battle system from, so that much goes in it's favor. I've never said the game is going to suck entirely, it just looks like quite a loser in my book. I do, however, expect it to possibly be the best Square-Enix FF (which isn't saying much, because Squeenix is low on my list as developers go).

 

[Zerokku]

Because you're being completely pessimistic throughout this entire thread presuming things are going to be like this or like that when you don't know, that's the difference.

I said I'd stay away from this discussion, and while I'm going to do that, I do want to reply to this.

So its okay to be optimistic with little basis, but not okay to be pessimistic with little basis? You could substitute the word in there with optimistic, and nothing changes. Both sides have just as much reason to believe what they believe, but apparently those being pessimistic are the ones that can be called out on it.

Good to know.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Well, the thread is about the 'Bad Points of FF XIII'. And to argue against it, you don't have any proof either. As you said, all we have are trailers and info.

That's because I'm not trying to prove anything, my very first post in this thread has negatives in it, all I'm trying to say is that people shouldn't be making a full on conclusion on what little information we do actually have.

I believe there's enough information scattered about that one can put two and two together and make four when it comes to FF XIII.

But still not enough to make a full judgement, by all means, if you play and and hate it then you have the right to completely rip it apart if you wish.

So its okay to be optimistic with little basis, but not okay to be pessimistic with little basis? You could substitute the word in there with optimistic, and nothing changes. Both sides have just as much reason to believe what they believe, but apparently those being pessimistic are the ones that can be called out on it.

Good to know.

Because you're the only person being like that, no one else has pretty much condemned it to being shit, and no one has said it's going to be outright amazing either, the majority of people have a balance of both good points and bad points, whilst at the same time, a fair few have still reached my point of not having enough information.

 

[UltimaFantasy2007]

Whilst Lost Odyssey was a great game (I loved it) I don't think it did much different from other JRPGs at all. One of the best features of the game is the dream scriptures; and that's text, not gameplay. The story itself was nothing special but it was told in a compelling way due to some brilliant digital acting and voice work. The characters were an endearing cast, though (however, it did have many 'emo' moments, which has been criticized in other titles *cough*VII*cough*), and weren't your typical designs; but the actual gameplay did nothing different, also. I don't think Lost Odyssey deserves to be placed above 'anything' Square has done. I think FF IX is a lot better than it, for instance. Blue Dragon is most definitely not as good as a lot of Square titles.

With regards to bashing XIII, I think the problem is that the people involved are really putting it down to the point one would think they've played the game and are now reviewing it. The simple fact is that to condemn it so much without playing the full game is what's the issue. Your reasons are your reasons and some I can fully understand, but to be so harsh is where it gets a bit much. People have posted negative comments but they haven't so passionately. It just seems that you're really trying to drill it into peoples heads how less of it you think. Saying X isn't simply enough, there has to be more.

 

[RioDragon]

Whilst Lost Odyssey was a great game (I loved it) I don't think it did much different from other JRPGs at all. One of the best features of the game is the dream scriptures; and that's text, not gameplay. The story itself was nothing special but it was told in a compelling way due to some brilliant digital acting and voice work. The characters were an endearing cast, though, and weren't your typical designs; but the actual gameplay did nothing different, also. I don't think Lost Odyssey deserves to be placed above 'anything' Square has done. I think FF IX is a lot better than it, for instance. Blue Dragon is most definitely not as good as a lot of Square titles.

FYI, I said Square-Enix, not Square. So that still counts for nothing against what I've said. FF IX is great, I agree whole-heartedly, but that was Square, not Square-Enix.

With regards to bashing XIII, I think the problem is that the people involved are really putting it down to the point one would think they've played the game and are now reviewing it. The simple fact is that to condemn it so much without playing the full game is what's the issue. Your reasons are your reasons and some I can fully understand, but to be so harsh is where it gets a bit much. People have posted negative comments but they haven't so passionately. It just seems that you're really trying to drill it into peoples heads how less of it you think. Saying X isn't simply enough, there has to be more.

Yes, there is a problem with some people being that way. I myself haven't truly passed judgement on it yet, I've just come to expect nothing more from Square-Enix than crap characters and crap stories with polished, gold-plated CGI. And so far, I've been right on my opinion. I don't expect them to change it much. I liked FF XII compared to the rest of the Square-Enix developed games, but that doesn't mean FF XII wasn't REALLY bad in comparison to most RPGs I've played.

I'm still thinking FF XIII may surpass XII, but that's still not saying much.

 

[UltimaFantasy2007]

FYI, I said Square-Enix, not Square. So that still counts for nothing against what I've said. FF IX is great, I agree whole-heartedly, but that was Square, not Square-Enix.

Yes, there is a problem with some people being that way. I myself haven't truly passed judgement on it yet, I've just come to expect nothing more from Square-Enix than crap characters and crap stories with polished, gold-plated CGI. And so far, I've been right on my opinion. I don't expect them to change it much. I liked FF XII compared to the rest of the Square-Enix developed games, but that doesn't mean FF XII wasn't REALLY bad in comparison to most RPGs I've played.

I'm still thinking FF XIII may surpass XII, but that's still not saying much.

Alright, cool, my bad with the Square thing. I apologise. Saying that I still think FFX (generally speaking) was better; but not by that much.

I, personally, thought XII was one of the weakest in the franchise, but it wasn't terrible and I didn't mind the changes to the battle system. To me, I think XIII will surpass XII because it'll be hard not to (yes, I thought it was that poor in comparison to what I've played before). As I've said, your opinion's your opinion and I respect that; I just think it'd be better if people weren't laying into it so much without playing it.

 

[DarkClaymore]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDjkGUM7skk
Watch the trailer again. The first thing I noticed is that Odin appeared, and battled, without his trusted horse. I found it very odd and then when it was hinted later on that Odin's alternate form something that is key to Odin (along those lines) I put two and two together. Here's it is, btw, Odin's Gestalt Form:

Here's a trailer showing the Shiva motorcycle in action.
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-final-fantasy/50922

Nice. Thanks for the information. I wonder what other summons can turn into.

I said I'd stay away from this discussion, and while I'm going to do that, I do want to reply to this.

So its okay to be optimistic with little basis, but not okay to be pessimistic with little basis? You could substitute the word in there with optimistic, and nothing changes. Both sides have just as much reason to believe what they believe, but apparently those being pessimistic are the ones that can be called out on it.

Good to know.

I agree with that. It is the same as I think FFXIII Versus will be a bad game. And I don't expect too much from FFXIII (I made the thread after all ) but I still think I'll love it. Maybe because I started playing RPGs only two years ago, so I haven't played to many of them and didn't get tired of some repetitive things.





Anyway, I usually rather think the game is gonna be "lame" and then one of those two things may happen:

1) If it is really lame, then I won't really be disappointed
2) If it is great, then I'll be surprised and will like it a lot

On the other hand, if I'll think it is a great game, then it is either

1) If it lame, I'll totally hate this game and everything connected to it
or
2) If it is really great , it most likely won't be as great as I though it'll be and still will be a little disappointed or at least won't feel it is an "epic" game .





And people, stop saying bad things on FFXII! It is my favorite FF!
There is no such a thing as "perfect game" anyway.