Debating is usually the best way to come up with answers though, if people think by themselves their solutions are usually too idiotic or won't have any way to come to fruition without others' help.
Animal Testing - Right or Wrong?
- Thread starter Sephirothalpha
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Debating is usually the best way to come up with answers though, if people think by themselves their solutions are usually too idiotic or won't have any way to come to fruition without others' help.
Well, we'll all think together, clonning is one idea, but it would cost a lot of money. Or maybe scientists could double the human system, you know, create something that could simulate the human system. but how?
Cloning raises all sorts of ethical questions, namely "is it right to play God?" It's even more controversial than animal testing.
true, so true, but are we playing god, think about it, we are not creating as such, we are just, copying his work
And copying God's handiwork is any better?
Either way I'm leaving this topic for a bit. It's degenerated into senseless drivel that is so far off topic. I'll come back when someone has a good argument, maybe you can try to think of one. But try to make it from a scientific standpoint and don't let a fictional TV show influence your opinions.
Either way I'm leaving this topic for a bit. It's degenerated into senseless drivel that is so far off topic. I'll come back when someone has a good argument, maybe you can try to think of one. But try to make it from a scientific standpoint and don't let a fictional TV show influence your opinions.
No, I'm not saying it's any better, and I'm not letting 'Doctor Who' influence my opinions!
Erythritol
Smoke and Arrogance
I guess everyone completely ignores what I say.....
Why cloning and inventing something to "simulate the human system" is stupid:
a) It won't get funding.
b) Scientists have better things to do.
If you think animal rights are more important than saving dying children's lives, I think you're fucked up. The end.
Why cloning and inventing something to "simulate the human system" is stupid:
a) It won't get funding.
b) Scientists have better things to do.
If you think animal rights are more important than saving dying children's lives, I think you're fucked up. The end.
Well, give a reason why you say that? theres no point in making fun in someones else's opinions, everyone has different opinions, I could just as easy tease you about being American and how your twin towers were destroyed
Erythritol
Smoke and Arrogance
Uh? They weren't my towers, but okay. Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion and all that jazz. But I'm opinionated as all hell. And I didn't make fun of anyone's opinions. I think a wide consensus of people would agree that if someone finds animal's rights more important than those of children's, they have issues.
What you are talking about are my opinions, you have no right to say that! my opinions are mine, yours are yours, i believe that animals and humans are equal.
What i'm trying to convey is that humans have done very bad things to animals in the past, and we are still doing it. So, i take pity on animals, so i say that humans should go under the testing
What i'm trying to convey is that humans have done very bad things to animals in the past, and we are still doing it. So, i take pity on animals, so i say that humans should go under the testing
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dimmufan
Tauren Hunter
The thing about cloning animals or breeding for captivity is that is the only life that these animals know. Just like a kid born into a violent household: violence is all the kid will learn and know and treat as normal. Sure the animals might get scared when the scientist brings them out of their cage, but I'm sure they feel better once they go right back into the cage. They have their food, water, and shittin grounds inside that cage. That cage is like home to them. So one can't say that the animal wishes it was "free" because the animal has no concept of "free".
Right, that was uncalled for Darkstar! There was no need to bring that up. People you are entitled to your opinions, but this is for debating. Keep it to the topic, or Im hading out infractions.
Dear god, you're extremely wishy-washy in your opinions. First you say we should test on people:
Then you say we shouldn't test on people:
Then you say people should be tested on again:
See, that is one of the reasons why nobody is taking you seriously Darkstar, it's not your silly alien examples, you just keep contradicting yourself. I'm sorry but I can't take someone's arguments or opinions seriously when they can't even stand by their own position.
Exactly. People talk about how we either shouldn't capture animals or we should let the lab animals into the wild. Those people don't seem to realize what you just said, the animals are bred, scientists don't set up rabbit traps in the wild and they don't lure rats into the lab. It would be even crueler to release the animal into the wild than testing on it because it would have to idea how to fend for itself and it would die in less than a week.
Then you say we shouldn't test on people:
Then you say people should be tested on again:
See, that is one of the reasons why nobody is taking you seriously Darkstar, it's not your silly alien examples, you just keep contradicting yourself. I'm sorry but I can't take someone's arguments or opinions seriously when they can't even stand by their own position.
Exactly. People talk about how we either shouldn't capture animals or we should let the lab animals into the wild. Those people don't seem to realize what you just said, the animals are bred, scientists don't set up rabbit traps in the wild and they don't lure rats into the lab. It would be even crueler to release the animal into the wild than testing on it because it would have to idea how to fend for itself and it would die in less than a week.
well, I'm trying to think of other ways of testing, so we don't have to test on either humans nor animals
What gives us the right to decide what the fate of other animals is because of a disease which inflicts us. We have no right to do so. If you're not willing to be tested for a possible cure, what makes you think an animal is?Well thank you for that lovely post Eryth. You pretty much just summed it all up, so way to go
But really, the attitude of "oh they'll die anyway so test it on them" is really hypocritical of you Finnegan. An attitude like that is no worse than people cruelly testing animals.
Oooh replace the word animal(s) in your post with jew(s) and you sound like a nazi. Everything we 'superior' beings create gets destroyed or destroys, there is nothing superior about it. Just remember all of the death the destruction our "pure superior" species has created. Just because animals have no dialect we can understand doesn't mean you have the right to be testing your shitty chemicals on them. As I say, if you want to be cured, you volunteer for testing if you want to live that badly. You wouldn't like it if in order for yourself to be cured you had to witness someone you cared about were to be subjected to the tests these animals go through.
OH I SEE, It's all fine and peachy for an animal to be created purely for your well being and to undergo the experiments it does, you're hardly one to be taking a moral high ground as you condone Animal Testing.
The lab animals can never be released into the wild because they are dangerous, but WE made them dangerous. You could stop the cycle by NOT TESTING ON ANIMALS.
Oh and you guys can shut up about HIV.
http://ibnlive.com/news/indian-doc-develops-enzyme-that-can-destroy-hiv/48654-17.html
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Erythritol
Smoke and Arrogance
I don't really have the time or energy to type out a big long response, so I'll make this rather brief.
Hey smart one, how do you think they developed that enzyme? Magic? Oh wait, no, it was ANIMAL TESTING!
You're, like, totally right. Animals and humans are TOTALLY equal. Animals SO have the same reasoning capacity, intelligence, and consciousness as we do. So I was totally being a Nazi by suggesting that animal testing is okay. Like, people being thrown into freezing cold water just to see how long it takes them to die and having their eyes injected with dye to see if it changes their eye color is completely the same as using animals to find cures for deadly diseases. Shit, I'm glad you cleared that one up for me.
As for testing on humans...I don't know what part of this you don't get, but it's illegal. With or without consent, it is illegal to test something that dangerous on a human.
For any advancements in anything, there must be sacrifices. Deal with it. Life isn't fair. Boohoo.
Erythritol
Smoke and Arrogance
That he likened animal testing to the experiments on humans done by the Nazis sickened me. There is no fucking comparison.
And telling me to shut up about HIV? Hi, it's called a global pandemic. It's killing millions of people every year. Don't tell me to shut up about something that's destroying so many lives.
Sir Jecht
Banned
im against it cause i dont think its right for them to sacrfice there lives to save ours cause they have as much a right to live as we do!
ANIMALS ARE JUST A RESOURCE. DEAL WITH IT. The only reason certain animals are treated with "respect" is because people have a personal attachment to them, because they look nice in a tourist attraction, or because they're a source of food. Other than that, a whale or a tiger is no more important than a fly or plankton. They're just a bunch of atoms assembled into cells and following a set of predetermined routines established from their DNA. Their sole purpose for existence is to absorb energy from the sun and multiply as much as possible before they inevitably die off and are forgotten for the rest of time. There's no honor, value, or beauty in any of it. A crocodile or a spider never have and will never do anything productive or useful in this world. Why, then, do we let them live? The only reasons I see are that a crocodile looks nice in a zoo and spiders get rid of nasty insects that many of us would gladly wipe off the face of the earth if we were able.
Despite this, some of you would actually prefer that these meaningless, unthinking creatures should have a slightly extended life instead of developing a new miracle vaccine or medicine that could possibly save thousands of lives. They're just RATS, for gods sake! They're not picking your pet cat or dog off the street and forcing them into a lab! I have never heard of a single event in the history of civilization where carefully controlled animal testing has led to any permanent damage for society, but I have heard of plenty of diseases that we could probably be a lot closer to curing if people would focus their attention on actual scientists instead of corrupt, nonsensical PETA clones.
Next people are going to tell me that we shouldn't mow our lawns because we might hurt a few blades of grass.
Despite this, some of you would actually prefer that these meaningless, unthinking creatures should have a slightly extended life instead of developing a new miracle vaccine or medicine that could possibly save thousands of lives. They're just RATS, for gods sake! They're not picking your pet cat or dog off the street and forcing them into a lab! I have never heard of a single event in the history of civilization where carefully controlled animal testing has led to any permanent damage for society, but I have heard of plenty of diseases that we could probably be a lot closer to curing if people would focus their attention on actual scientists instead of corrupt, nonsensical PETA clones.
Next people are going to tell me that we shouldn't mow our lawns because we might hurt a few blades of grass.
Thank you for that post, Adamant, I'm glad someone else here has sense. I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks animals are equal to humans needs to have their head examined. Animals ARE NOT equal to people. If animals were equal to people they would be walking upright and we would be in a furfag's paradise. For Christ's sake, in what way is a species that walks upright, has not only spoken language but written language and history as well, forms societies, uses advanced tools, and discovered science and subsequently how things work equal to a rat, cat or even a monkey? Guess what? That is not equality!
Animals' main use has always been to provide food and clothing to people. That means since the dawn of time man has hunted and killed animals for their meat and skins. Animals are nice, they're fun to look at and to study but they are not equal to us at all, they are resources, just like Adamant said. I don't care how many "what if the shoe was on the other foot" scenarios are given to denounce animal testing, none of them are valid because none of them are plausible. We are the dominant, most intelligent species and that's way it's going to be. We cannot keep people in suffering so we can save a few fuzzy little creatures that aren't going to even live a fifth of a human's lifespan or have any accomplishments.