Animal Testing - Right or Wrong?

~SapphireStar~ said:
What mob? People are voicing their opinions. Thats what this section is about. This "mob" are other members and there is no need to see them asa mob because they disagree with you.

And when did aliens start to take humans? That IMO is nonsense.
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It's just an example! But i could happen, we have found one planet that has suitable living conditions, they might be aggressive! (there was another thread about this) and by mob, i mean, everyone is is against us, I don't mean it to be mean, I just mean it to be a whole bunch of people who are against me, I'm Australian, it's what we say
 
~SapphireStar~ said:
Good point there. But plants and trees can be regrown. Im agaisnt trees being cut down, but the way of the vegetable is to be eaten as far as I know.

People and animals really cant be regrown if you get what I mean.
Yeah we can breed of course lol.
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Well with technology these days animals and humans can in fact be grown in a lab, hence the cloning arguement.
 
Yes, it is a hard one to debate, as we don't know much about it, you know, they could be exactly like the real animal, as in feelings
 
Darkstar said:
It's just an example! But i could happen, we have found one planet that has suitable living conditions, they might be aggressive! (there was another thread about this) and by mob, i mean, everyone is is against us, I don't mean it to be mean, I just mean it to be a whole bunch of people who are against me, I'm Australian, it's what we say
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My dads Australian and he doesnt use the word mob for people who dont have the same views as him. He just doesnt care. And I do think you are being mean by calling people who have different opinions then you. Its uncalled for and can lead to flaming, so reframe from doing it please.

@SA: Lol, Im going in circles here. Yeah we can clone people. But I just dont believe in it that much. Going agaisnt creation and all.
 
I see a mob as a group of people who set out to destroy someone or something. Either I'm right or I've been watching way to many Simpsons episodes.
 
Darkstar said:
Yes we are all equal in this world, no matter who the 'best' is, sorry for being discriminative, it's like not helping those who are mentally, or physically disabled, we are all brethren, we all evolved from the one life-form (I'm an evolutionist Christian), sorry, my mistake with the ozone layer, just trying to make a point.
How would you like it if some alien race came to Earth, took about 50 humans and started pumping chemicals in them, it is the same thing!
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Wtf man? Aliens? That's the most ludicrous argument ever. I see how you're trying to pull the whole "well if you were in their shoes" argument, but your argument completely falls apart when you can't even back it up with anything factual.

Like I said before, aliens steal 50 humans, and breed them, keep them in cages, and pump chemicals into them. would you like it?!
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Again, this is a pathetic farce of an argument. If you can't even think of any realistic arguments to defend your position, then stop arguing against animal testing.

okay, I kinda agree with you, yes, you make a strong point, (I'm also a scientist, I look at life scientifically) but, animal testing should stop unless the animal is not harmed, hurt, or any way damaged, and once the testing is done, release it in the wild.
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Agreed there. I'm fine with the idea of animal testing, but the way it's done is usually cruel and could be avoided. How's this for an idea? First off, prior to the testing, keep the captive animals as comfortable as possible (like if you're boarding your animals at a vet's office or something) and just be nice to them. Keep them calm and happy. Then, when you have to do the testing, they won't already be traumatized from bad conditions and chances are they'll deal with it much better. After the testing, continue keeping them comfortable and when you're done with them give them to an animal sanctuary or something.

Do you think rats go out, get the disease and give it to us to spite us? i don't think so, the rats don't have an organization called 'kill the humans'. The only reason they have disease is because of our interference, they get polluted trying to eat or garbage (another thing I'm strongly against)
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Okay, take rats out of a city setting, look at the impact they have on farmers. They're infamous for consuming grains farmers have stored in their silos and barns. Why do you think farmers keep stray cats around in their barns? They catch the rats. Rats don't have a secret society or whatever but they are pretty much a pest in any environment, trash or no.

Darkstar said:
As long as you don't kill the whole plant, but I am against tree chopping, unless it is 100% necessary, but if it has a bird's nest in their, I'll be there to stop it. Super Hippie away!
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So what happened to being Mr. Christian Evolutionist? According to evolution all life started from a single cell right? That would make plants just as much an equal life form as a rabbit. But apparently it's okay to damage a plant so long as you don't kill it, but can't do that to an animal in testing? You're being inconsistent.
 
Okay, when I talk about animal testing, I'm talking about research on deadly illnesses. Once an animal has been used for such research, it is impossible to release it into the wild. The animal essentially has either a deadly or severely debilitating illness. And the idea of releasing an animal that was bred in capitivity into the wild is terrible. The animal wouldn't survive.

As for the whole "well, why don't the scientists somehow come up with a way to clone an animal, only make it so the animal doesn't have a brain or any central nervous system" argument...that's absurd. First off, where do you imagine the scientists would get funding for that sort of project? No one would fund it. Secondly, scientists are trying to find cures for global pandemics like AIDS. They aren't going to be sidetracked by something like that. And you wanna talk about suffering? Take a look at a good deal of Africa. In 2005, there were 2 million deaths from AIDS in Sub-Saharan Africa. Approximately 12 million children in Sub-Saharan Africa are estimated to be orphaned by AIDS. Those numbers probably aren't even accurate, as obtaining those kinds of figures are so difficult. I've read about some areas where people are running out of places to bury their dead. There are funerals every week. Don't talk about "suffering" animals when there are suffering men, women, and children.

And people want to halt research on HIV/AIDS because animals are suffering? Please.
 
Animal Testing = no.

I don't care about this "But it'll help us humans" when did we become better than the animals, they aren't tools for us to experiment on to make sure we live longer.

If you want to Cure AIDs in humans, you TEST on humans who already have AIDs. Seeing as they already have it, they'll die if you get the cure wrong anyway. Stop testing on animals you sick abusive bastards >_<
 
Finnegan III said:
Animal Testing = no.

I don't care about this "But it'll help us humans" when did we become better than the animals, they aren't tools for us to experiment on to make sure we live longer.

If you want to Cure AIDs in humans, you TEST on humans who already have AIDs. Seeing as they already have it, they'll die if you get the cure wrong anyway. Stop testing on animals you sick abusive bastards >_<
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Your ignorance on the subjuct of HIV/AIDS is sort of disturbing. You realize that depending on how far along the virus is, people with HIV/AIDS can live upwards of twenty years now. The reason for this? Oh, science and animal testing. If anyone thinks it's better to test dangerous chemical substances on humans rather than animals, they might want to look into Josef Mengel. He thought the same thing.

We ARE better than animals. Plain and simple. We happened to win the evolutionary lottery, lucky us. As Thucydides said in the Melian Dialogue: The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. It has been and WILL be this way until the end of time. You think if another species were superior that it would be any different?
 
Erythritol said:
Your ignorance on the subjuct of HIV/AIDS is sort of disturbing. You realize that depending on how far along the virus is, people with HIV/AIDS can live upwards of twenty years now. The reason for this? Oh, science and animal testing. If anyone thinks it's better to test dangerous chemical substances on humans rather than animals, they might want to look into Josef Mengel. He thought the same thing.

We ARE better than animals. Plain and simple. We happened to win the evolutionary lottery, lucky us. As Thucydides said in the Melian Dialogue: The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. It has been and WILL be this way until the end of time. You think if another species were superior that it would be any different?
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Well thank you for that lovely post Eryth. You pretty much just summed it all up, so way to go ^_^

But really, the attitude of "oh they'll die anyway so test it on them" is really hypocritical of you Finnegan. An attitude like that is no worse than people cruelly testing animals.
 
VengefulRonin said:
Wtf man? Aliens? That's the most ludicrous argument ever. I see how you're trying to pull the whole "well if you were in their shoes" argument, but your argument completely falls apart when you can't even back it up with anything factual.



Again, this is a pathetic farce of an argument. If you can't even think of any realistic arguments to defend your position, then stop arguing against animal testing.



Agreed there. I'm fine with the idea of animal testing, but the way it's done is usually cruel and could be avoided. How's this for an idea? First off, prior to the testing, keep the captive animals as comfortable as possible (like if you're boarding your animals at a vet's office or something) and just be nice to them. Keep them calm and happy. Then, when you have to do the testing, they won't already be traumatized from bad conditions and chances are they'll deal with it much better. After the testing, continue keeping them comfortable and when you're done with them give them to an animal sanctuary or something.



Okay, take rats out of a city setting, look at the impact they have on farmers. They're infamous for consuming grains farmers have stored in their silos and barns. Why do you think farmers keep stray cats around in their barns? They catch the rats. Rats don't have a secret society or whatever but they are pretty much a pest in any environment, trash or no.



So what happened to being Mr. Christian Evolutionist? According to evolution all life started from a single cell right? That would make plants just as much an equal life form as a rabbit. But apparently it's okay to damage a plant so long as you don't kill it, but can't do that to an animal in testing? You're being inconsistent.
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Okay then, Mr. Christian Evolutionist says, don't hurt plants. Plants are different in a way, yes they are living, but they don't feel pain, they don't think, all the do is convert Carbon Dioxide into Oxygen, and photosynthesize, and they can be easily regrown. (I'm not against plants, I'm just stating the obvious)

With the whole alien thing, it could happen, don't you watch Doctor Who? It was just an example!
 
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Darkstar said:
Okay then, Mr. Christian Evolutionist says, don't hurt plants. Plants are different in a way, yes they are living, but they don't feel pain, they don't think, all the do is convert Carbon Dioxide into Oxygen, and photosynthesize, and they can be easily regrown. (I'm not against plants, I'm just stating the obvious)

With the whole alien thing, it could happen, don't you watch Doctor Who? It was just an example!
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Doctor Who....is a TV show. "It could happen?" Thats a crappy old McDonald's slogan. Come on dude, make some realistic arguments. That alien crap isn't going to hold a candle against other theories on animal treatment. You can't base on arguments on TV shows and possibilities. Granted, it could happen and it is possible, but it is not plausible.
 
VengefulRonin said:
Doctor Who....is a TV show. "It could happen?" Thats a crappy old McDonald's slogan. Come on dude, make some realistic arguments. That alien crap isn't going to hold a candle against other theories on animal treatment. You can't base on arguments on TV shows and possibilities. Granted, it could happen and it is possible, but it is not plausible.
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You are right, but it's just an example, all I'm trying to say is I am strongly against animal testing, no matter what.

But what about whales? they are near extinction, and they are still being hunted down for testing?

"it could happen" yeah it's a Mcdonalds slogan, but will they ever stick to it?
"It could happen, nice food"
 
Darkstar said:
But what about whales? they are near extinction, and they are still being hunted down for testing?
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That really doesn't have to do much with Animal testing. Besides that, I am strongly against hunting animals that are near extinction as I said before. Zoologist have been doing the best they can to preserve the lives of near extinct animals. Also breeding near extinction animals as well.

I'm going off topic. :/

Anyways, I am still for testing on animals for medical use only.
 
This might be ending this whole debate, but we should try to understand where the other person is coming from.

I completely understand where you are coming from, but I still believe that there is another way, to avoid completely animal and human testing
 
And now you say there is another way? So what is that way, praytell? Making a preemptive strike against those aliens and testing on them before they get to us?
 
Sorry if you felt a little ganged up on Darkstar. I don't mean to sound too harsh. I do believe in some animal rights to a certain extent.

Other than, I rather choose a human life over an animal life.
 
VengefulRonin said:
And now you say there is another way? So what is that way, praytell? Making a preemptive strike against those aliens and testing on them before they get to us?
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Okay, so what I'm going to do is build a near infinite number of huge atomic bombs that can destroy planets, and them send them to every plant in space until we are the only ones left, I'll even destroy suns, except ours, no!

I don't have another method of testing, but if we are so smart, we should stop debating and think
 
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