A triumphant return in the present; a terrible battle on the horizon

[Davey Gaga]

Interesting speculation, but wrong all the same. The type of forum you post at (Final Fantasy) leads me to believe you have no real life friends, actually, whereas LastOCP is pretty much full of drunken, church-burning party cats with a penchant for humor and a deathwish to the anti-social.

IP addresses won't prove anything, 1. because proxies ae abundant, and 2. because we're not actually the same people. Yes, we talk about your forum on our message board; yes we've got multiple members signing up here to defend what is just and right! You can't strike down the righteous, for their will lives on far past the weeds that grow green from the graves of its roses.

Whatever your interests are, you cannot state as fact whether or not someone has friends. That goes for you too, Gaara. Oh, I'd just like to add that people such as those you have described on LOCP truly are what friends are made of .

True, in that case, IP addresses could not prove much. However, what we can do is play by the rules ourselves, and warn where appropriate, because your track records are going the same way as Sar and Abel.

"what is just and right"? What, do tell, is right about posting pornographic images on a forum where children and teenagers come together to discuss a game?

The given arguments FOR bringing them back are not very convincing yet. Subsequently, that means that these members will NOT be returning. However, feel free to attempt and give compelling evidence, but, judging by what's been said so far, your attempts will be futile. I'd suggest giving up completely on the topic and moving on to a forum that will accept and approve of members such as them.

 

[Sekhu]

I suppose when members like us (Sar, Abel, Cool Teen, Blob_, myself and others) come from a much freer place with democracy (LOCP has elections every couple months for admins/mods), a place where we can voice opinions without those in power getting mad and banning people because someone has a different opinion, are thrown into a militaristic dictatorship like this, it's just second nature to defend the illusioned, the helpless, the meek.

I'm pretty sure it's a fact whether someone has friends or not; it's not up to opinion, is it? It's definitely something that can be quantitatively measured.

What about our "track records"? All I can think that you'd write down for us is "discontent with pompous attitudes and suspicion injustly thrown at them."

What's right about pornographic images being posted in an act of vengeance towards Abel and Sar? Nothing. The member that was responsible has been consequently punished on LOCP using our Last Measure(s).

 

[Blob_]

It's not fate, but it is one of two things:

1. The same people creating a new account on different computers, or
2. Friends of Sar and Abel creating accounts solely to cause problems

It has become clear that, despite the fact that YOU asked for members who knew Abel and Sar to come forward, you did not mean what you said.

Perhaps you didn't expect anyone to come forward and stand up for them, but you were wrong. They are not guilty and ignoring that fact makes you an unjust bastard. Neither Sar or Abel would ever do anything like posting pornography on a forum.

It's even more unlikely that Sar and Abel were the ones personally responsible for the posting of any pornographic or other offensive content, because their accounts were hacked by some twat called Sunshine, who has now been banned from the forum he primarily visits, LOCP.

Oh and if you want to talk about how members act on forums, why don't you tell your friend Darkblade to stop mass PMing everyone on ACF about joining this fucking forum, because I doubt you'd like it if they did that to you.

 

[der Astronom]

I take it that he might have been talking about members that were already on this forum, and abide by the rules like most other members. It's harder to treat a new member seriously.

However, I must make this point clear now, with regards to the "democracy" concept. Sure, I like that concept, and it works in the real life and in government. Well, it should. But this is a FORUM. And at a forum, where you are not obligated to join and post, membership at a forum is a PRIVILEDGE. You can complain about freedom of speech and other liberties granted by your own country, but when you post at a forum, you either concede to its own rules or simply leave and don't post there. That is why membership at a forum is a priviledge, and does not infringe on your rights to free speech. We're not forcing you to do something you don't want to do; we're simply doing our jobs as moderators, and you're not prevented from expressing yourself elsewhere. You can say what you want elsewhere like at LOCP, but you are only priviledged to say what is within the guidelines when you are at a forum like this.

If you can't abide by the rules and get along with other members here, then simply leave and don't cause trouble. If you don't like the fact that members here don't "lighten up" or don't appreciate your humor, it may simply be because they don't like your kind of jokes or don't see it that way. And if they don't, you don't have to be here; you can go elsewhere where your humor is appreciated. I know that most people don't appreciate my own brand of dark humor, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make other people appreciate it just because they don't already.

 

[Cool Teen]

But we like it here. Everything but the staff.

 

[Gaaramaster]

It has become clear that, despite the fact that YOU asked for members who knew Abel and Sar to come forward, you did not mean what you said.

Perhaps you didn't expect anyone to come forward and stand up for them, but you were wrong. They are not guilty and ignoring that fact makes you an unjust bastard. Neither Sar or Abel would ever do anything like posting pornography on a forum.

It's even more unlikely that Sar and Abel were the ones personally responsible for the posting of any pornographic or other offensive content, because their accounts were hacked by some twat called Sunshine, who has now been banned from the forum he primarily visits, LOCP.

Oh and if you want to talk about how members act on forums, why don't you tell your friend Darkblade to stop mass PMing everyone on ACF about joining this fucking forum, because I doubt you'd like it if they did that to you.

He wasn't planning on people who were told what to say and liars.

 

[Davey Gaga]

I suppose when members like us (Sar, Abel, Cool Teen, Blob_, myself and others) come from a much freer place with democracy (LOCP has elections every couple months for admins/mods), a place where we can voice opinions without those in power getting mad and banning people because someone has a different opinion, are thrown into a militaristic dictatorship like this, it's just second nature to defend the illusioned, the helpless, the meek.

You're welcome to your own opinion, you can't be banned for having an opinion. It's how you convey it that gets you into trouble.

I'm pretty sure it's a fact whether someone has friends or not; it's not up to opinion, is it? It's definitely something that can be quantitatively measured.

Unless you personally know Gaara, then you can't say for sure if he has friends or not, nor can we state whether or not you have friends yourself. Therefore, without the facts, it can only be an assumption, or an opinion.

]What about our "track records"? All I can think that you'd write down for us is "discontent with pompous attitudes and suspicion injustly thrown at them."

Suspicion has been "thrown" at you for the reason that you are defending a guilty person.

What's right about pornographic images being posted in an act of vengeance towards Abel and Sar? Nothing. The member that was responsible has been consequently punished on LOCP using our Last Measure(s).

Clever clogs you are, actually adding words. True, there's nothing right about that vindictive act, but you can't prove that it actually happened, which I believe is the entire point of this thread.

It has become clear that, despite the fact that YOU asked for members who knew Abel and Sar to come forward, you did not mean what you said.

Perhaps you didn't expect anyone to come forward and stand up for them, but you were wrong. They are not guilty and ignoring that fact makes you an unjust bastard. Neither Sar or Abel would ever do anything like posting pornography on a forum.

It's even more unlikely that Sar and Abel were the ones personally responsible for the posting of any pornographic or other offensive content, because their accounts were hacked by some twat called Sunshine, who has now been banned from the forum he primarily visits, LOCP.

I actually asked MEMBERS who knew Sar and Abel to come forward, referring to members from FFF, before those two were banned. And by the way, simply telling me that they are not guilty is very helpful, I'm practically convinced!

Oh and if you want to talk about how members act on forums, why don't you tell your friend Darkblade to stop mass PMing everyone on ACF about joining this fucking forum, because I doubt you'd like it if they did that to you.

Take it up with him yourself, I'm not your slave.

I'd also like to bring attention to the fact that was Sephiroth has stated is correct and I support this fully.

But we like it here. Everything but the staff.

Unfortunately for you, the staff play a crucial role in these forums, such as warning YOU where necessary. Tough luck.

I pose the question to all friends of Sar and Abel: why do you care so much about returning here, when all you have done is flame your way through an argument and talk about complete rubbish? That's all it is, without evidence. You lot are not doing them much good with your actions, in fact, quite the opposite.

 

[Sekhu]

Suspicion has been "thrown" at you for the reason that you are defending a guilty person.

Is that so? I don't remember ever defending Kosai.

And by the way, simply telling me that they are not guilty is very helpful, I'm practically convinced!

Just like how I'm sure FFR and ACF were totally convinced that you guys weren't spamming through PM to advertize your site. Apparently you're too lazy to ask the staffs for the IP information of the members that sent those PMs, or perhaps you have something to hide? I can't really be sure, because I don't personally have the power to find this information out. You do. However, we did actually invest time in finding out who accessed Abel and Sar's passwords (by their request) to find out who damaged their reputation.

I pose the question to all friends of Sar and Abel: why do you care so much about returning here, when all you have done is flame your way through an argument and talk about complete rubbish? That's all it is, without evidence. You lot are not doing them much good with your actions, in fact, quite the opposite.

It's funny how you say we're the ones flaming here. You've clearly been throwing personal insults at us from the beginning, totally unprompted. There's a difference between rhetoric and verbal assault, and as a staff member I think it'd be a great asset to learn this delicate difference. I'll give you a little lesson:


Rhetoric:

And I love ham sandwiches, I've been eating them for 14 years, but you don't see me forcing them into the mouths of Muslims.

Flaming:

Look, it's quite simple. If you don't like the fact that he's writing in Latin then just don't post here.

All I can see from this is that he's showing his appreciation for the Latin language, and if you don't appreciate it, just go away.

Reason:
I was trying to prove a point in a valid discussion about languages by use a metaphor, when suddenly the staff turns up and tells me to go away and not to post anymore. Not sure how that was supposed to contribute.



Rhetoric:

If you think 90% of English is derived from Latin, then the education system has severely failed you as a thinking human being.

Flaming:

I think you have a bit of problem with your attitude, seriously.

Reason:
The point was, that they DIDN'T actually think that, and that the education system hadn't disappointed them. To get your opponent to disagree with the opposite is to get them on the track to agreeing with your point. Socratic method. The remark about my attitude was a bit rude and added nothing to the discussion.

Ad infinitum. The point here is, we like the place and most of the members a lot. There seem to be plenty of fun people with a sense of humor. The only problem is that the staff puts a negative twist on everything we say, or assumes that a member (like Vulcan) feels harassed just because we have a disagreement. It's pretty common for people to disagree on things, and there was hardly flaming until staff showed up telling us to stop posting.

 

[Davey Gaga]

Is that so? I don't remember ever defending Kosai.

Just like how I'm sure FFR and ACF were totally convinced that you guys weren't spamming through PM to advertize your site. Apparently you're too lazy to ask the staffs for the IP information of the members that sent those PMs, or perhaps you have something to hide? I can't really be sure, because I don't personally have the power to find this information out. You do. However, we did actually invest time in finding out who accessed Abel and Sar's passwords (by their request) to find out who damaged their reputation.

What does this have to do with anything in this topic?

It's funny how you say we're the ones flaming here. You've clearly been throwing personal insults at us from the beginning, totally unprompted. There's a difference between rhetoric and verbal assault, and as a staff member I think it'd be a great asset to learn this delicate difference.

I'm not even sure where to begin with you, so you know what? I'm going to leave it, because no matter what I say, you'll try and twist it, or make yourself look like a victim.

Ad infinitum. The point here is, we like the place and most of the members a lot. There seem to be plenty of fun people with a sense of humor. The only problem is that the staff puts a negative twist on everything we say, or assumes that a member (like Vulcan) feels harassed just because we have a disagreement. It's pretty common for people to disagree on things, and there was hardly flaming until staff showed up telling us to stop posting.

1. Clearly, Vulcan WAS feeling harassed, because he reported every one of those posts, hence the reason I got involved. Case closed
2. We don't put a "negative twist" on anything, we enforce the rules, as our job requires. If we didn't, members like you would continue to do what you have done to other members, i.e Vulcan.

As for your rhetoric examples and the such, all I can emphasise, again, is that it's the way in which you convey your point that is deemd as flaming, inappropriate and the such. We would all just get along better if you and a certain other few would be considerate of other members and how the things you say can offend them.

Completely off topic, we have gone. ON TOPIC, it seems Darkblade has allowed Sar and Abel back, giving them a chance. I, too, am giving them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you can end your argument now, Sekhu? In fact, I will.

*closed*

 

[Sekhu]

Why not just move it to PM? No reason to close a good thread.

 

[Sar]

I am very happy to see that I have been unbanned. Hopefully we can put all this nastiness behind us and discuss what we're all joined together to discuss and love: Final Fantasy.