A question about Spira/Zanarkand (spoilers)

[Edgecrusher]

Hi,

I'm new here, though I'd join this place because I was looking for somewhere to talk about my favourite game pretty much ever, FFX. I also have a question about Spira and Zanarkand that I'd like to ask...

Okay, so, Tidus is from this "Dream Zanarkand", created by the Fayth. And he gets transported to Spira. BUT, when you go to Spira, you learn that Zanarkand is the other side of the island/world/whatever and that is accessible by foot (through Mt. Gagazet). So it's safe to assume that Zanarkand, the real Zanarkand, is actually part Spira, just like Luca, Besaid and Bevelle. So what about the Dream Zanarkand? Was that on its own? Did Spira not exist in Tidus' dream world? Is this ever explained? Surely he must have some knowledge of his world outside his own city?

If I'm right, we know that the only way someone can travel between the Dream Zanarkand and Spira is via Sin. But how does Sin itself go to the Dream Zanarkand?

How did Auron travel from Spira to Dream Zanarkand? He lived in Spira, did Braska's pilgrimage in Spira, and died in Spira... but as an Unsent, he travelled to Dream Zanarkand, found Tidus (I'm assuming they build some kind of friendship long before the game begins) and took him to Spira. If Sin took Auron from Dream Zanarkand to Spira, how did Auron get from Spira to Dream Zanarkand?

This has been bugging me for a while!

 

[Ayen]

The real Zanarkand was destroyed by Sin 1,000 years ago. The dream Zanarkand was a replica of the real Zanarkand so the whole Sin destroying it that you witness really happened to the real Zanarkand so Sin never traveled to dream Zanarkand. Him, his father and that entire dream Zanarkand was created by the Fayth so it possible their power was enough to bring Tidus to Spira and allow Auron passage through to pick him up.

I'm tired and skimming the Final Fantasy wiki: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Wiki so maybe you can find more answers in there or somebody else can confirm or deny the things I just explained but I think I'm about right on the matter.

 

[Hilda Garde III]

Hmm i haven't played the game for a while but the way i remember is Zanarkand did exsist as it appears in 'Dream Zanarkand'.

They had a Machina war with Bevelle which ultimately caused Sin to be created.
Dream Zanarkand was created by the Fayth either: After they lost the war with Bevelle or it was destroyed by Sin before the events in the opening film which takes place in 'Dream Zanarkand'.

I can't think of why they didn't know their world as Spira though, the name Spira must of came about after it was destroyed.

The only reason i can think of Auron being able to get from Spira to 'Dream Zanarkand' is because Sin is Jecht.
Sin being able to reckognise Tidus shows that Jecht still has some sort of control, which would of allowed him to take Auron to 'Dream Zanarkand' safley.

I could be entirley wrong as well, but that is what i think.

 

[Ayen]

Hmm i haven't played the game for a while but the way i remember is Zanarkand did exsist as it appears in 'Dream Zanarkand'.

They had a Machina war with Bevelle which ultimately caused Sin to be created.
Dream Zanarkand was created by the Fayth either: After they lost the war with Bevelle or it was destroyed by Sin before the events in the opening film which takes place in 'Dream Zanarkand'.

I can't think of why they didn't know their world as Spira though, the name Spira must of came about after it was destroyed.

The only reason i can think of Auron being able to get from Spira to 'Dream Zanarkand' is because Sin is Jecht.
Sin being able to reckognise Tidus shows that Jecht still has some sort of control, which would of allowed him to take Auron to 'Dream Zanarkand' safley.

I could be entirley wrong as well, but that is what i think.

They made the dream right after it was destroyed. While I'm not sure if they ever explained it in the game because it's been years since I played, I think the reason Tidus knew nothing about Spira could very well be because it's just a dream of Zanarkand. That doesn't mean it even have to acknowledge the other places in Spira or that's it even in Spira. That's my guess.

 

[Edgecrusher]

The real Zanarkand was destroyed by Sin 1,000 years ago. The dream Zanarkand was a replica of the real Zanarkand so the whole Sin destroying it that you witness really happened to the real Zanarkand so Sin never traveled to dream Zanarkand. Him, his father and that entire dream Zanarkand was created by the Fayth so it possible their power was enough to bring Tidus to Spira and allow Auron passage through to pick him up.

So the destruction of Zanarkand we witness at the beginning of the game is a reimagining of the actual events that happened 1,000 years ago, dreamed by the Fayth? So effectively, Tidus actually kind of DID travel through time? And Auron travelled back in time to go and take him to Spira - the future?

 

[Hilda Garde III]

They made the dream right after it was destroyed. While I'm not sure if they ever explained it in the game because it's been years since I played, I think the reason Tidus knew nothing about Spira could very well be because it's just a dream of Zanarkand. That doesn't mean it even have to acknowledge the other places in Spira or that's it even in Spira. That's my guess.

So although Tidus is part of the dream he never actually visits Dream Zanarkand?

Because he is sent to Spira during Sins destruction of the original Zanarkand.

And the Zanarkand he knew had to be the one where you fight Yunalesca because of the Dome, and Seymour shows you in his place at Guadosalam ('Zanarkand as it appeared 1000 years ago')

So it must of been in Spira.

 

[Hilda Garde III]

So the destruction of Zanarkand we witness at the beginning of the game is a reimagining of the actual events that happened 1,000 years ago, dreamed by the Fayth? So effectively, Tidus actually kind of DID travel through time? And Auron travelled back in time to go and take him to Spira - the future?

That only makes sense if Zanarkand was destroyed in the Machina war, because they created Dream Zanarkand after it was destroyed.

Sin came after the Machina war and he can't really attack a dream city, so the Zanarkand you see at the start must be the original, in it's last moments.

 

[Dishy]

I'll try to explain as best as I can. Forgive me if I misunderstand your question in any way.

First off, backstory. You probably know it anyway but I'll skim through it.

1000 years prior to the events of the game, Zanarkand and Bevelle were at war.
Although both used high-level technology, Zanarkand relied on Summoner's to fight, while Bevelle used machina.
Bevelle was the clear stronger of the two, and Zanarkand's destruction seemed inevitable.
Not wanting his precious city to die out completely, Yu Yevon, a powerful summoner, led the remaining survivors to Mt Gagazet, where he turned them all into the Fayth that dreamt up Dream Zanarkand.

This is where you are probably confused. Dream Zanarkand was actually set far out at sea - this is how Jecht ended up in Spira. Remember how he went out to sea one day and never came back? He got lost, and miraculously, didn't die by fiends or the elements, but made it to Bevelle.

In order to protect himself while he continued to summon Dream Zanarkand, and protect the dream city itself, Yu Yevon created an armour around him from pyreflies - Sin. However, this immense strain on his psyche reduced his mental capacity to nothing but a strong will to protect Dream Zanarkand, and therefore Sin was destructive and uncontrollable, especially at sea (which is why people fear the sea).

As for knowledge of the outside world by Dream Zanarkand's inhabitants...well, it's not really touched on, so we can only assume, but I think they were dreamt to accept their "world" as it was, and not question too much in that sense.

This is how travel between Dream Zanarkand and the rest of Spira is possible - it resides in a physical location, accessible only by Sin and those it chooses to take there.

Jecht, as Sin's new vessel after defeating the previous shell, still had some semblance of control and was able to direct Sin's actions. He took the Unsent Auron to Dream Zanarkand to look after Tidus, as Auron promised. (I can imagine Auron looking badass here, riding on top of Sin.) When Tidus was old enough, Jecht wanted Tidus to go to the real Spira, in order to experience reality, and live a real life.

As Auron said at some point (not an exact quote): "Life is harsh at times, even cruel, but it is life. Jecht wanted you to have that."

It's unknown why Tidus and Jecht didn't vanish after leaving Dream Zanarkand, but I guess just one or two people leaving where they were supposed to be wasn't too much strain.

This answer the question?

 

[Hilda Garde III]

I'll try to explain as best as I can. Forgive me if I misunderstand your question in any way.

First off, backstory. You probably know it anyway but I'll skim through it.

1000 years prior to the events of the game, Zanarkand and Bevelle were at war.
Although both used high-level technology, Zanarkand relied on Summoner's to fight, while Bevelle used machina.
Bevelle was the clear stronger of the two, and Zanarkand's destruction seemed inevitable.
Not wanting his precious city to die out completely, Yu Yevon, a powerful summoner, led the remaining survivors to Mt Gagazet, where he turned them all into the Fayth that dreamt up Dream Zanarkand.

This is where you are probably confused. Dream Zanarkand was actually set far out at sea - this is how Jecht ended up in Spira. Remember how he went out to sea one day and never came back? He got lost, and miraculously, didn't die by fiends or the elements, but made it to Bevelle.

In order to protect himself while he continued to summon Dream Zanarkand, and protect the dream city itself, Yu Yevon created an armour around him from pyreflies - Sin. However, this immense strain on his psyche reduced his mental capacity to nothing but a strong will to protect Dream Zanarkand, and therefore Sin was destructive and uncontrollable, especially at sea (which is why people fear the sea).

As for knowledge of the outside world by Dream Zanarkand's inhabitants...well, it's not really touched on, so we can only assume, but I think they were dreamt to accept their "world" as it was, and not question too much in that sense.

This is how travel between Dream Zanarkand and the rest of Spira is possible - it resides in a physical location, accessible only by Sin and those it chooses to take there.

Jecht, as Sin's new vessel after defeating the previous shell, still had some semblance of control and was able to direct Sin's actions. He took the Unsent Auron to Dream Zanarkand to look after Tidus, as Auron promised. (I can imagine Auron looking badass here, riding on top of Sin.) When Tidus was old enough, Jecht wanted Tidus to go to the real Spira, in order to experience reality, and live a real life.

As Auron said at some point (not an exact quote): "Life is harsh at times, even cruel, but it is life. Jecht wanted you to have that."

It's unknown why Tidus and Jecht didn't vanish after leaving Dream Zanarkand, but I guess just one or two people leaving where they were supposed to be wasn't too much strain.

This answer the question?

It answered mine, I was confused when the original Zanarkand was destroyed, by Sin after the Machina war, or by the Machina war itself.

Thanks

 

[Ayen]

So the destruction of Zanarkand we witness at the beginning of the game is a reimagining of the actual events that happened 1,000 years ago, dreamed by the Fayth? So effectively, Tidus actually kind of DID travel through time? And Auron travelled back in time to go and take him to Spira - the future?

Not sure if it counts as time traveling really.

It is a city of endless lights, and one that never sleeps. There were two Zanarkands: the real Zanarkand that was annihilated by Sin at the end of the Machina War against Bevelle 1000 years ago, and the Dream Zanarkand, which was the exact reproduction of what Zanarkand was before its destruction, directly from the memories of its former inhabitants. Dream Zanarkand is Tidus's home; Zanarkand is Shuyin's home.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Zanarkand#Dream_Zanarkand

So although Tidus is part of the dream he never actually visits Dream Zanarkand?

Because he is sent to Spira during Sins destruction of the original Zanarkand.

And the Zanarkand he knew had to be the one where you fight Yunalesca because of the Dome, and Seymour shows you in his place at Guadosalam ('Zanarkand as it appeared 1000 years ago')

So it must of been in Spira.

Huh? I'm not exactly sure where you got all of this in my last post. I never said Zanarkand wasn't in Spira. I said it's possible that the dream version of Zanarkand didn't acknowledge the rest of Spira so while Tidus knew about Zanrkand everything else would have been completely new to him. Which would explain why to Tidus entering Spira felt like being in a different world otherwise he'd be an idiot for not knowing.

****​

Edited: Annnnnnnnnnnd Dishy said it best.

 

[Dishy]

Read up a bit more to make sure, seems I missed a bit out.

Yu Yevon programmed Sin to attack any villages or settlements that grew too big or too advanced, as well as ruling the sea with an iron fist, so that no one would think to venture too far out and find Dream Zanarkand.
However, because his mind couldn't handle summoning both Sin and Dream Zanarkand, Sin was left with pure instinct, and the first thing it did was destory the real Zanarkand (which is closer to Gagazet than Bevelle, you'll find).

Bevelle basically saw Sin, shit themselves, and ran away.
Yu Yevon had told Yunalesca how to manage Sin, and she told the leaders of Bevelle, who founded the religion of Yevon in his name in hope of placating Sin and not incurring his wrath, etc.

Hope that further clarified things.

 

[Hilda Garde III]

Huh? I'm not exactly sure where you got all of this in my last post. I never said Zanarkand wasn't in Spira. I said it's possible that the dream version of Zanarkand didn't acknowledge the rest of Spira so while Tidus knew about Zanrkand everything else would have been completely new to him. Which would explain why to Tidus entering Spira felt like being in a different world otherwise he'd be an idiot for not knowing.

Yeah sorry i'm a bit retarded..
I guess because it was such a massive city (just look at how they name the blitzball teams, 'Zanarkand Abes from A-East' for example), and Tidus was only 17, the rest of the world was kind of unknown to a young bloke like him.

 

[Edgecrusher]

I see. That cleared things up. Thanks for that.