Aerith and her Faith

[Rydia]

Ok now I am confused. No one doubted that there were christian references/imagery in the game, just as there were also pagan and buddhist references and imagery. In your original post, you asked if Aerith was of the christian religion. And most of us have said no and that christianity does not exist in FFVII's world.

The church that Aerith visits is broken and old. Almost as if if belonged to a dead religion. It was not a christian church because FF7 has it's own mythology. They borrowed the image from christianity probably because church's can symbolize purity, which is what they wanted to associate Aerith with.

In FF4, Rosa can use angel arrows. Does that mean she is christian? Probably not. She was a white mage, which are associated with purity and as are Angels. White mages also typically have a spell called holy, also associated with purity.

Sephiroth is called the One Winged Angel. Does that make him a christian? Or a satanist?

Aerith may be something like an angel. (Innocent, pure, natural healer, communicating with the earth) But even she has flaws. And I don't her being something like an angel makes her a christian.

And holy hell is just a saying. There was probably not much thought put into that line. And hell exists in several religions, not just christianity.

 

[Lebreau]

For the record, Lavi didn't say you weren't smart. That was someone else. :3

Personally... I think the symbolism is just that, symbolism. I don't believe there's religion in FF7. I think Aerith liked going to the church because it was the only place flowers would grow. I don't think there's anything more to that than the flowers, really. Perhaps the church was a place of worship for Jesus in the past, but by the time Aerith goes there, I think it's just a building in disrepair where flowers grow. If you look at Aerith's house, there's tons of flowers there, so that's my reasoning.

And, your picture of Vincent's clothing wasn't very convincing. If I have a cross shaped fasten on my clothing, does that make me Christian? Nope, not at all. (I'm not a Christian basher either, I don't follow or condemn a religion.)

Sure, there was an angel statue, but that STILL doesn't mean I believe it's supposed to be a symbol of the EXACT religion being in the game.

And as for gospel, no, I don't believe that's referring to Christianity. It doesn't HAVE to be used that way, and just because it says Great Gospel doesn't really mean anything to me. Neither does "Holy Hell." I say that all the time, ask anyone who talks to me frequently and they could tell you. Just because they put those two words together doesn't mean it's a Christianity reference. I'm looking for, although failing to find, a japanese version of the script to run through a few translators (this may not be good enough, but eh.) to see if I can figure out what they may have meant at first.

And, Aerith does NOT pray to GOD. She. Prays. To. The. Planet. Holy comes from the LIFESTREAM inside the PLANET.

-------------------------------


Also, everyone, let's refrain from insulting people's intelligence and using direct insults. Please do not make me warn you again, thank you.

 

[The Witch]

Ok now I am confused. No one doubted that there were christian references/imagery in the game, just as there were also pagan and buddhist references and imagery. In your original post, you asked if Aerith was of the christian religion. And most of us have said no and that christianity does not exist in FFVII's world.

But... the churches, angels, Gospel, and prayers prove it does exist in a way. The developers of the game put all of those Christian-based sybolisms in the game for a reason.

The church that Aerith visits is broken and old. Almost as if if belonged to a dead religion. It was not a christian church because FF7 has it's own mythology. They borrowed the image from christianity probably because church's can symbolize purity, which is what they wanted to associate Aerith with.

Everything in Midgar is broken and old, though.

Aerith may be something like an angel. (Innocent, pure, natural healer, communicating with the earth) But even she has flaws. And I don't her being something like an angel makes her a christian.

That's... not what I was saying. It's the whole equation of it all that leads to a logical conclusion of it all foreshadowing Christianity among other religions.

And, your picture of Vincent's clothing wasn't very convincing. If I have a cross shaped fasten on my clothing, does that make me Christian? Nope, not at all. (I'm not a Christian basher either, I don't follow or condemn a religion.)

Lol, I wasn't using that to show Vincent was religious. I used it to show that it existed in the story.

Sure, there was an angel statue, but that STILL doesn't mean I believe it's supposed to be a symbol of the EXACT religion being in the game.

Then what's the point of putting a catholic angel in there if it wasn't supposed to symbolize something?

 

[Eight]

That opening sentence completely showed that you're getting paranoid, and that's just gonna open you up to members who won't hold back to simply rip into you.

First, ToS is an example, don't act so snappy over it, examples are allowed y'know, second, actually, yes, this game showed much more signs than that of FF7, it had numerous churches, people praying if memory serves, even its own mesiah, hell the main angels were one of the main points of the plot.

Second, Gospel in the game refers to Aerith as opposed to Jesus, meaning it would apply to humanity, not Christianity.

If you wanna believe she's a Christian, then it could of been left at that, we coulda left you to your business and if you felt the need to make this topic then you coulda stated your opinion then let everyone else state their's and left it at that instead of attempting and failing to prove them wrong, but no, you had to shove it down our throats, and that is just so close minded and rude.

 

[Rydrum2112]

Thank you Levi and Rydia. I think sky+ has a position and will refuse to change her mind no matter what anyone else says.

Sky- you originally were claiming she is christian, and now you are suddenly just saying that earth's religions are in ff7?

Also you completely ignore the point about the picture of the church. "Advent Children shows that thing not there." Yeah but originally it was, and that is conical (an example of you just ignoring contradictory evidence).

Holy hell is an expression it has nothing to do with christianity.

She (doesn't kneel in GG) calls on the earth (not prays to god) not to mention the fact that-
You can't prove those are christian angels, just because they look similar to what you conceptualize as christian angels. That doesn't make them so.

Why don't they look like the classic cherub style angels that are more commonly associated with christianity than people in white with wings?


As to the point you were making to Lavi, they symbolized other things (religions) just as much as christianity you just are ignoring that and claiming christianity is over represented.



Why not attach a poll and see whose arguments are more persuasive?

 

[Drops]

Wow what the hell is this, was it ever mentioned in game there was ANY sort of religion outside of a rundown church in the slums. We dont even know if anyone outside of the Cetra had ANY beliefs outside of money. Just because theres a church doesnt mean there is suddenly Christianity. Hell that church could of been a shrine erected to the lifestream itself, which we all know is what the Cetra believed in and had faith in, not some central god or anything of the sort. Nothing there fits. There is no mention outside of the church and Sephiroths Safer form (or Seraphim, which isnt Christianity) of any sort of religion. And as mentioned above Gospel means good news, not "omg christianity"

 

[Lebreau]

Lol, I wasn't using that to show Vincent was religious. I used it to show that it existed in the story.

Fair enough, but who's to say Vincent didn't just think plus signs looked cool? (I'm joking, don't worry.)

Then what's the point of putting a catholic angel in there if it wasn't supposed to symbolize something?

Welllllll... Angels symbolize purity and hope, in my eyes, and that angel was in... Edge... I think. I'm a bit foggy on FF7 names and stuff. XD So maybe it's a symbol of the new hope in Edge versus the despair shown in Midgar.

Also, are we sure it's a catholic angel? I think of angels as looking like that generically, not just specifically as catholic...

There's the whole praying to the planet instead of a God thing as well. She doesn't pray to a God or to Jesus. Just because there's angels doesn't mean it's Christianity. Can I get a response to that, please? :3

Oh, and as for why the angels looked like the Christian image... what do we think of graphical limitations and/or the generic angel appearance? Maybe that's just what the creators pictured angels to look like. xD

 

[The Witch]

That opening sentence completely showed that you're getting paranoid, and that's just gonna open you up to members who won't hold back to simply rip into you.

First, ToS is an example, don't act so snappy over it, examples are allowed y'know, second, actually, yes, this game showed much more signs than that of FF7, it had numerous churches, people praying if memory serves, even its own mesiah, hell the main angels were one of the main points of the plot.

Second, Gospel in the game refers to Aerith as opposed to Jesus, meaning it would apply to humanity, not Christianity.

If you wanna believe she's a Christian, then it could of been left at that, we coulda left you to your business and you if you felt the need to make this topic then you coulda stated your opinion then let everyone else state their's and left it at that instead of attempting and failing to prove them wrong, but no, you had to shove it down our throats, and that is just so close minded and rude.

Holy crap, I'm not saying you all can't believe it to not mean Christianity, I'm saying I see tons of facts that outweigh it NOT being a Christianity reference.

I don't see why(and no one has explained) they would make a Gothic church, angels, prayers, and the mentioning of "Gospel" in the game if they weren't trying to convey to the player that Christianity was being referenced to. Makes no sense. Like, AT ALL.

Sky- you originally were claiming she is christian, and now you are suddenly just saying that earth's religions are in ff7?

Umm, no. I see lots of facts that prove Aerith's supposed to be Christian. But that also means I see the religion existing in VII's world. They kinda go hand in hand. 0_0

You can't prove those are christian angels, just because they look similar to what you conceptualize as christian angels. That doesn't make them so.

Umm, they're identical to Catholic Angels. If they were supposed to be their own separate kind of angel, they would have made it look different. But they didn't. And they didn't change how the angels looked for a reason.

As to the point you were making to Lavi, they symbolized other things (religions) just as much as christianity you just are ignoring that and claiming christianity is over represented.

Um, again, NO. All I'm saying is that, while other religions are heavily mentioned, Aerith is associated with a LOT of Christian symbolic-signs.

Maybe, I can rephrase this...


There is a reason as to WHY the developers added those symbolic signs of religion into the game--it was too convey certain religions into the game.

Fair enough, but who's to say Vincent didn't just think plus signs looked cool? (I'm joking, don't worry.)

Maybeh.

There's the whole praying to the planet instead of a God thing as well. She doesn't pray to a God or to Jesus. Just because there's angels doesn't mean it's Christianity. Can I get a response to that, please? :3

But they look exactly like Catholic angels. And why I think it adds to my conclusion is because when you look at the entire game, there's not only just angels but other clear signs of Christianity. Like the church, Gospel, and her prayers. I add all of those clues up and the conclusion a person would generally make is that it's referencing to Christianity.

If it was just angels, I'd have less evidence to prove my argument. If it was just a Church, the same could be said for my argument and so on and so on.

It's all of those symbolic signs put together and existing together that lead me to believe that it's conveying Christianity.

 

[VinnieJones]

But now remember the scene, Reno ruins the Church's flowers and then they shout; "YOU'RE GONNA CATCH HOLY HELL!"

Until a Japanese context is provided I'm going with the official translation.

I'll take care of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T5mvw6Tg0M&feature=related

the talked about scene is at 2:46. now obviously none of you will understand this, but I'll translate it: The troops say 'Reno stepped on them!', 'the flowers are messed up!' and 'you're gonna get told off!'. Now whilst these aren't 100% accurate, they are along these lines. The third line is the one translated to 'you're gonna catch holy hell', it only says 怒られる～　(apologies if you can't see whats been written). the complicated symbol here represents anger, so it only implies making someone angry (in this case Aeris telling Reno off).

nothing about holy or hell I'm afraid. so the translators (the terrible FFVII translators, wtf is Ungarmax) just used an expression to take care of this.

Yeah, also, Cloud has polygon-hour-glass arms, doesn't mean his arms are really hourglass shaped,

whoa whoa, so you're going to say the church and Cloud in VII original doesn't tell us anything about the real form, yet the angels do? where's the consistency... by your argument, the angels resembling catholic angels doesn't mean they actually do resemble them. Maybe they were just easy to draw using polygons?



As for the Gospel part I remembered that Cid has a weapon called Venus Gospel. A mixture of a Roman God and a Christian music genre. Seems to me that the word is being used randomnly cos it sounds cool.

 

[Lebreau]

What do her prayers have to do with it, considering she's NOT praying to GOD? She's. Praying. To. The. Planet. Does she pray for Jesus to help her cast Holy to save everyone? I don't believe she does. She prays for the planet's help and uses the lifestream to make that prayer come true. I don't believe Christianity prays to the earth, does it? As several people said, that's a lot more like Paganism.

The Cetra pray to the lifestream/planet and connect with it, speaking to it. They don't pray and speak to any form of God, unless you'd like to consider the Planet itself a God.

Edit:

I'll take care of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T5mvw6Tg0M&feature=related

the talked about scene is at 2:46. now obviously none of you will understand this, but I'll translate it: The troops say 'Reno stepped on them!', 'the flowers are messed up!' and 'you're gonna get told off!'. Now whilst these aren't 100% accurate, they are along these lines. The third line is the one translated to 'you're gonna catch holy hell', it only says 怒られる～　(apologies if you can't see whats been written). the complicated symbol here represents anger, so it only implies making someone angry (in this case Aeris telling Reno off).

nothing about holy or hell I'm afraid. so the translators (the terrible FFVII translators, wtf is Ungermax) just used an expression to take care of this.

Thank you <3 I was looking for a japanese text translation to pop through google and babelfish, but couldn't find one. XD

 

[Rydrum2112]

Thank you for the translation Vinnie (also for the logic faulting the graphics in one spot and using them to support the argument in another, you put it much more succinctly than I could).

.Lebreau is exactly correct- she is praying (I wouldn't even use that word), she is calling on the planet for help.


What about all the things associated with her that are not christian-
Like 2 limit breaks dealing with the the earth- Planet Protector, Breath of Earth. When she dies she joins the lifestream nothing to do with going up to heaven.

Not 1 thing she wears is associated with christianity, why wouldn't she have a cross on over the pendant the she does wear? Not one thing (even a cross) in her home nor her bedroom have anything to do with christianity. Not one weapon she has is associated with christianity.

She never mentions jesus, christianity or god.


I still say let people vote.

 

[CassinoChips]

Lol, I wasn't using that to show Vincent was religious. I used it to show that it existed in the story.

Then what's the point of putting a catholic angel in there if it wasn't supposed to symbolize something?

Here's the thing. You're putting your interpretation on an item and placing a context on it that isn't necessarily there. An example:

I go to a temple in India. This temple was created in, we'll say 1480 CE, and was abandoned in 1857 CE, when the British government fully exerted its control over the Indian people. I look around this temple, at some of the iconography, and in several different instances, I see a swastika. Immediately, because I'm from the current time period and a Westerner, I associate this swastika with Naziism. So am I to make the assumption that these Indians were Nazis? How can that be, when Naziism did not exist in that part of the world (realistically), or wasn't even "invented" at that time in history?

The reality of the situation is that this was likely a Jainist temple, and all Jainist temples and holy books must contain an image of a swastika, which is a symbol of the Seventh Jina.

Am I incorrect in associating the swastika with Nazis? No, as that's the connotation I know. Am I incorrect in assuming the swastika is proof that the adherents who facilitated the use of this temple were Nazis? Absolutely. Because I've allowed my interpretation of the symbols to override their actual meaning.

To correlate, seeing a cross, or angels, or a church in the game and associating that with Christianity is fine. Because that's a familiarity thing. But to extend that into saying that it's proof of Christianity's existence in that game's world, or that one of its characters is a Christian, is fallacious.

 

[Rydrum2112]

Actually, from what I understand, paganism doesn't necessarily mean she can't be Christian. I mean, the Bible(believe it's Genesis)speaks of lesser gods, too.

What is the first commandment?...

 

[Terra Branford]

@Terrible Terry Tate:

I already have a whole post for you, but I won't put it in this one unless I know for sure you are still in the debate (toward me I mean) or that you will read and reply to it. I don't want to waste space with my posts if they can't be answered lol

Just message me or post here, and I'll post it.

I also did it for space issues >.>

@Rydrum2112:
Okay, let's go with your way. Why the bananas would they make her pray and call on Christian Angels, complete with our styled Togas and halos? Great News doesn't match the Christian praying for angels help. It just doesn't and it won't ever match up with it.

Oh come on now, did you expect to see Jesus Christ being nailed to a cross? As I mentioned before, they had to draw the lines someplace so anti-Christians or anti-religious people, would still by the game. Plus, the makers DID create her death scene because of Christian/Catholic/Jewish God. :/ I forget where, maybe Sky can help with that. :hmm

Christians don't have a placement of their hands. You don't have to slap your hands together to pray You seem to be confusing what we meant by "Praying in a Christian way". Christians don't have to put their palms together to pray, we don't have to do anything with our hands. And actually, we pray the same way Aerith does :giggles

<Images: 1, 2, 3 but yea, we can also pray like this: 1 >
​

We can pray any way we want, which is what I meant by "Christian way" since every other religion besides Chris/Catholicism has a time to pray and a selected way to pray.

No, I assure you I didn't miss your point. You seem to think because the country doesn't have much Christians, the possibility of her being a Christian is zero.

But if I remember correctly, there is a interview or some verbal sentences recorded and restated by the interviews taken by Nomura back in the 90s I believe, where they said her death was inspired by the death of a close one (I forget who had the close one who died...) and that for the real death, they had turned to God in their hearts and then inspiration came when they created Aerith and her death scene. If I remember the interview correctly I mean lol

If anyone knows of what I speak, maybe you can find it. My googling skills such for FF7 lol

No, they were angels Rydrum, they were angels.

If debating and bring evidence is biased to you, then I think you need to pick up a dictionary. I had said TTT was appearing biased because of how he acted about the religion, but he said it wasn't so I believe him. I just thought I had to be honest for the moment....

@Bami:
I almost didn't see your post! Sorry! Read above please. I said there were cases where they were capped.

doesn't anyone even read my posts?

@Ohri-Jin:
Uhhhh huh....now maybe you can offer something to prove it?

@Ryudrum again:
No, you didn't forget it mention that lol

None of that specifically makes you Christian. I dated a Jewish girl in college who was always asking angels for help. If I visit churches (or mosques or synagogues) as a guest, that doesn't make me a full-fledged member of that religion.

Yes! She could be a Jewish religious person or even a Catholic. Still a Abrahamic religion and means she still believes in the SAME God as Christians. lol

@VinnieJones:
............

She treats the church as a Holy Place, which is why she didn't a: want fighting there and b: want the flowers, the flowers of Virgin Mary, to be ruined. Heck, even Reno said "You'll catch Holy hell" or something like that lol

Actually, the Jewish Candle doesn't have four-three candles. It has eight plus the Shamash, a special and final light.
Christians use Candles in their church too you know.

That clearly only has three-four and doesn't have the traditional and needed, Jewish Star on it.

Plus, it doesn't look anything like a Synagogue. Example of one. I'm pretty sure the Jewish star is needed on the Synagogue to be a Jewish Holy House of Prayer. PLUS, Synagogues does not allow women to pray in the lower part of their "church", they must sit separate from men in the above room. A church allows for one to sit with any sex, anywhere, pray anytime and when you want and how you want. Aerith is clearly praying in the lower half of the church -- meaning its not a Synagogue, but a Church.

Rosa in FFIV and Bannan of FFVI have skills called 'pray', and it cures your allies. Praying in FF causes many wonderous things to happen, but does God heal your HP? do angels in Christianity give you invincibility and heal you HP and MP? they are completely different to angels in our world (though they are imaginary beings) and hence have no relation, which may mean that God does not play part in this at all.

Wow.

Of course we don't get invincibility or brought back from K'O. lol
Its a game, they had SOME fantasy to it.

whoa whoa, so you're going to say the church and Cloud in VII original doesn't tell us anything about the real form, yet the angels do? where's the consistency... by your argument, the angels resembling catholic angels doesn't mean they actually do resemble them. Maybe they were just easy to draw using polygons?

They made certain points in the game and one point of the zillions in the game, is Roman Angels and the Christian Church, the Cross, the prayer and the Virgin Mary flowers.

You guys can't honestly think it is ALL coincidence.

Welllllll... Angels symbolize purity and hope, in my eyes, and that angel was in... Edge... I think. I'm a bit foggy on FF7 names and stuff. XD So maybe it's a symbol of the new hope in Edge versus the despair shown in Midgar.

Also, are we sure it's a catholic angel? I think of angels as looking like that generically, not just specifically as catholic...

Angels are Angels of Abrahamic Religion (Jewish, Christianity and Catholicism, the only other were they look like they do in VII, is Sakhism [?]), which is the point we're making.

Actually, I had taken the time in one of my posts to show the differences and reasons why it cannot be any other Angel other than the four stated Religions (which have just been mentioned above and before in my posts) considering the elements and rules of which they were summoned.

Also, they did have to stop at some point. Believe it or not, LOADS of people wouldn't have bought the game simply because she was a Christian, if she was I mean. So if they had gone the WHOLE mile and official stated her a Christian, they would have lost loads of profit.

Which is I bet, if you asked her religion, they'd just throw it away because they don't won't to lose their money slaves, I mean fans.

There are certain aspects you must keep while making a book, game or anything else. If you strictly made it Christian, it wouldn't have sold much because loads of antis wouldn't have bought it. If they had made it, let's say Jewish, antis of that religion wouldn't have bought it.

By doing what they have done, they have created a perfect level of hidden agendas, a love triangle and a possible religion. In businesses, you can't straight out say things that can lose profit.

Why do you think they ignore the "who does Cloud love?" question so much. They need their money and keeping it as secure and hidden as possible with enough room for players to interrupt, they don't lost profits.

Actually, I believe Mother Earth has her own Spirit that is apart of my God. So I could pray for and with, the planet. But then again, you have to keep in mind things had to have a stop at some point. Reasons stated above.

Whooo, hope that made sense. I could rephrase lol

Thank you Levi and Rydia. I think sky+ has a position and will refuse to change her mind no matter what anyone else says.

Heh, yea, just like you. What do you know, its a small world after all.

A person is entitled to their opinion, Rydrum. Just like you are. We are debating, not "I'm gonna force you to change your opinion or insult you instead! Bwahahahaha!"

I could say the same to you, considering all the evidence you guys have brought is...what exactly? So far I've seen the argument of just "she's not" and fantasy roles that are being used to show she can't be a Christian -- ex. casting invincibility or cure.

There are plenty of Christian games where magic is involved. Is it not Christian because the game (a product designed for fantasy purposed) has magic or elements that can't exist in the real world, e.i, casting fire and summoning mythical beasts?

If it didn't exist there, why is it in the game? To symbolize... what, exactly?

Obviously the makers just wanted their fans too see them as crazy SO they just symbolized and constructed way too many Christian features and faith into the game, just so it can symbolize something that doesn't exist in the game because they wanted to symbolize something that isn't there, but symbolizing it just to symbolize it.



(Did I reply to all those who got back to me? Sorry for any grammar errors! >.>)

 

[Rydrum2112]

terra,
1st-

@Ryudrum again:
No, you didn't forget it mention that lol
Quote:
None of that specifically makes you Christian. I dated a Jewish girl in college who was always asking angels for help. If I visit churches (or mosques or synagogues) as a guest, that doesn't make me a full-fledged member of that religion.

What are you talking about? I didn't post that.

Your togas? Actually togas are Roman in origin and would thus be associated with the religion of ancient rome.
Watch this and tell me where are these halos?

You can't claim she is praying in a christian way unless it is something specific to christianity, otherwise every act can be said to be praying in a christian way and if that is the case than that argument is useless.

As for the christians in japan, I said the probability is low NOT THAT IT WAS 0- and that is clearly written so stop making things up.


Unless you find those sources those claims are baseless.


I will change my view if the proponderance of evidence supports she is christian, right now it clearly is against that.

 

[Terra Branford]

terra,
1st-

What are you talking about? I didn't post that.

Your togas? Actually togas are Roman in origin and would thus be associated with the religion of ancient rome.
Watch this and tell me where are these halos?

You can't claim she is praying in a christian way unless it is something specific to christianity, otherwise every act can be said to be praying in a christian way and if that is the case than that argument is useless.

As for the christians in japan, I said the probability is low NOT THAT IT WAS 0- and that is clearly written so stop making things up.


Unless you find those sources those claims are baseless.


I will change my view if the proponderance of evidence supports she is christian, right now it clearly is against that.

That wasn't to you, besides the "no, you didn't forget that part" after that, I quoted an entirely different person, hence the quote ^,^

No, we were talking about the Catholic/Roman Angels who wore Togas, symbolizing that it is in fact, a Angel coming to Aerith's aid.

No, I can say that. Are you a Christian? No you aren't.

Christians do not have a single way to pray, we don't even have to put our hands together. What I had meant by "Christian way" was that Christians can pray anyway, anytime and anywhere, unless every other religion in the world. THAT'S what I meant by Christian way

I know what you said, silly pop, but its actually really stupid to assume that because the rate of Christians in Japan was/is low, Aerith has a really high chance of not being Christian. That's what you are saying. That the chances of her being a Christian is not at all, close to nothing or just about impossible considering the rates of Japan. That's what you meant, which is why you brought statistics into it.

What claims have you've managed to actually prove other than nothing but "That's not a Angel" or some other ridiculous stuff that I have already and have, refuted easily?

It is evidence, and if it wasn't, why waste your time on supposed "rubbish" claims? (I know you didn't say rubbish!)

Clearly against it? What? Nothing is "clearly" against her being a Christian. What posts are you reading?

Seriously, the proof you have, is not proof at all, except that it can one: be another religion (which I guess is proof) and 2: that she's just not a Christian and 3: Personal opinions not supported or backed, with actual evidence other than your own saying and once again, "that could mean anything".

What we have brought? Images, history, word meaning, Aerith's practice in prayer, Angels, the way she goes about it, the church, the cross, the flowers -- everything.

Again, show me your proof other than personal opinion.

 

[VinnieJones]

Terra:

So we can actually agree on one thing; that FFVII is set in a fantasy world, which makes it different from ours. It's a fantasy, a story, or anything that is opposite to reality. Now that makes an awful lot of significance in this argument.

All the evidences; Churches, Gospel etc are all certainly in there, I'm not going to deny that. But as you say, they exist in a fantasy world, not ours. Which suggests that their train of thought isn't necessarily the same as ours i.e. Great Gospel might not lead to Christianity in their world, whilst it does in ours. They have their way of thinking, we have ours; we cannot compare them, as, like you said, it's a fantasy world where anything can be which means that Christianity doesn't necessarily have to exist. .

You said the game can have some fantasy; Christianity not existing could be a form of fantasy. Now unless you can find me any evidence that people in FFVII think and believe in the exact way of humans in our world, no one can surely use the items and places inside the game to prove that a religion in our world exists in theirs.

I can come up with a story and include buildings and books based on some religion but still call it something different. Why? Because it's not based on this world.

At the moment, despite all the evidence in the game, the furthest we can potentially conclude to is 'Aerith is Christian, had she existed in reality'. I'm going to repeat what you said: Seriously, the proof you have, is not proof at all.

 

[CassinoChips]

At the moment, despite all the evidence in the game, the furthest we can potentially conclude to is 'Aerith is Christian, had she existed in reality'.

Even that's a reach. Again, she never makes any association with Jesus Christ. So realistically, the only conclusion we can reach is that, were she a real person, she'd be religious.

 

[Terra Branford]

Terra:

So we can actually agree on one thing; that FFVII is set in a fantasy world, which makes it different from ours. It's a fantasy, a story, or anything that is opposite to reality. Now that makes an awful lot of significance in this argument.

Yes, fantasy is common in games. Doesn't mean Christianity isn't possibly.

All the evidences; Churches, Gospel etc are all certainly in there, I'm not going to deny that. But as you say, they exist in a fantasy world, not ours. Which suggests that their train of thought isn't necessarily the same as ours i.e. Great Gospel might not lead to Christianity in their world, whilst it does in ours. They have their way of thinking, we have ours; we cannot compare them, as, like you said, it's a fantasy world where anything can be which means that Christianity doesn't necessarily have to exist. .

They exist and have been put it and focused on the way they did, for a reason, not just simply for her to....just be there. lol

You seem to be confused on what I had said and meant by its a fantasy realm. I said there are fantasy ELEMENTS in the game. Doesn't mean real life things, moments, artifacts, figures or anything else cannot co-exist.

You said the game can have some fantasy; Christianity not existing could be a form of fantasy. Now unless you can find me any evidence that people in FFVII think and believe in the exact way of humans in our world, no one can surely use the items and places inside the game to prove that a religion in our world exists in theirs.

Well, I believe I heard that FF7 was based or inspired, by America and the real world. Midgar being what? New York. Gold Suacer = Las Vegas.

I have found evidence of other things, but they can only be "Refuted" by the "it doesn't mention Jesus" or something else that is just plain silly.

You guys have gathered zero evidence to refute or cancel out our proof. Its all "well its this and that" or "they would have mentioned Jesus" or personal statements.

Again, where is this proof. I have yet to seen anything good or even worthy of evidence other than the given term of "opinion" which is never backed.

I can come up with a story and include buildings and books based on some religion but still call it something different. Why? Because it's not based on this world.

See, FF7 was based on the real world. :/

As a game developer and member of a few developing forums, they will also explain that this much "coincidence" isn't just "coincidence" and that it was done on purpose, but hidden beautifully to keep these sort of things alive and fans at the counter buying their product.

I'm going to repeat what you said: Seriously, the proof you have, is not proof at all.

Coming from the person who has yet to bring anything intelligent.

Again, where this "proof" you guys have? You have your opinion that isn't backed by ANYTHING. I have opinion, statements, evidence, and all, backed by the game and by the movie.

At the moment, despite all the evidence in the game, the furthest we can potentially conclude to is 'Aerith is Christian, had she existed in reality'.

What? Didn't you just say I or the proof we brought, wasn't evidence? Contradicting yourself, missy.

Game set and match.

 

[Ilyena]

There's no reason to be smug. You ask for people's opinions and then basically write them off as if they mean nothing to you. Why bother acting like this is a discussion thread if you're just going to tell everyone they're wrong?

I've read the entire thread and tbh, I still don't think there's any actual proof that Aerith is a Christian. Like many others have said, the Cetra's religion seemed far more focused on the planet than on a God.

Yes, there was a church in the game. That means squat really since a church is basically just a house of worship. She visited the church to tend to the flowers and if I remember correctly, she stated that it was the only place where the flowers bloomed.

Yes, I agree that there was a lot of religious symbolism in the game but that in itself is not uncommon in any game. I think Lavi used Tales of Symphonia as a reference earlier. That game had an entire religion that had some similarities to Christianity but the characters weren't Christian.

In many games and even stories, real world religions and their symbolism are used as a basis or reference for fictional religions and themes. It's no different with Final Fantasy.

I just don't feel the "evidence" presented proves in any way that Aerith was a Christian or was meant to be a Christian. It's just a fantasy game that uses symbolism and terminology from the real world.