Squall Rant

[Howl]

As for him pissing and moaning about not wanted responsibility... Well, wouldn't you? You've been forced into doing something you don't wanna do, you're gonna bitch about it, aren't you? I know I would.

Okay for starters, you're just supporting the fact that he didn't have enough personality to voice his own opinion. Like you said...he didn't want to be in charge, so he just went along with it...
Psh. You're supporting the fact that he's a conformist who likes to be told what to do.

I'd also try to get other people to do it for me, which is what Squall did. Basically, he tried to do the minimal amount of work needed to get the job done. Like any other human being.

Alright...basically what you're saying is...he's a great hero because he got everyone else to do the dirty work for him?
That's not a great hero. That's George W. Bush's mini me.

Oh, and for the record? Squall > Cloud. Squall has much more character development.

Here's where you're wrong.
Cloud, unlike Squall, didn't weasle his way out of things so that the rest of the team could do the work for him as you put it.

Cloud really is a mercenary. He has 7 years of government training under his belt. While Squall on the other hand, only has two years of training in a facility which hires on 16-18 year old children to perform massive raids on enemy territory. Any normal redneck could do such a thing.

Cloud discovers himself at the end of the game. Squall on the other hand, hooks up with the girl who he absolutely detested between discs 1 and 2.

Cloud has an in depth history involving ShinRa, Zack, and Sephiroth. FFVIII's storyboard directors ran out of good ideas somewhere between the beginning of the game, and the raid on Dollet; they couldn't think of anything creative, so they decided to slap every single character into the very same orphanage and call it history.



Go ahead, give me some more reasons why Squall is better.

 

[Axel_KH]

Cloud really is a mercenary. He has 7 years of government training under his belt. While Squall on the other hand, only has two years of training in a facility which hires on 16-18 year old children to perform massive raids on enemy territory. Any normal redneck could do such a thing.

Actually, iirc, he has more than just 2 years training. I'm sure he was younger than 16 when he first joined Garden. But that's just being nitpicky.

Okay for starters, you're just supporting the fact that he didn't have enough personality to voice his own opinion. Like you said...he didn't want to be in charge, so he just went along with it...
Psh. You're supporting the fact that he's a conformist who likes to be told what to do.

No, he stayed in character when he went along with everything. Remember, he's supposed to be some cold person who just follows orders, like every SeeD. He thinks his opinion, but he also thinks that whatever he's doing, he's doing in accordance to someone else's greater plan.

Alright...basically what you're saying is...he's a great hero because he got everyone else to do the dirty work for him?
That's not a great hero. That's George W. Bush's mini me.

I never said he was a great hero
He does come out more later in the game, though, like when he decided to rescure Rinoa, or attack the Lunatic Pandora and so on. Heck, even the two gardens fighting, he takes some initiative, and gives that speech. Sure, it took a bit of prompting, but not nearly enough for him to be "relying on everyone else".

Here's where you're wrong.
Cloud, unlike Squall, didn't weasle his way out of things so that the rest of the team could do the work for him as you put it.

For the record, I do like Cloud. I just like Squall more.

No, Cloud was instead manipulated by Sephiroth on multiple occasions, and stupidly jumped headfirst into danger without thinking about the consequences, such as giving (not even losing) the Black Materia to Sephiroth.

Cloud really is a mercenary. He has 7 years of government training under his belt. While Squall on the other hand, only has two years of training in a facility which hires on 16-18 year old children to perform massive raids on enemy territory. Any normal redneck could do such a thing.

Cloud has bog standard Shinra training. Anyone can get a job in the Shinra Army, not anyone can get a job in SOLDIER.
Squall, on the other hand, has to pass a mission to help fight off an army. Not only does he do that, but he fights off a potentially dangerous monster (on a city-scale).

Cloud discovers himself at the end of the game. Squall on the other hand, hooks up with the girl who he absolutely detested between discs 1 and 2.

Cloud has a single part of the game where he realises he's been acting as another person, then turns back into himself. Hardly thrilling character development.
Squall, on the other hand, gradually opens up as the story goes along. Instead of being this cold, antisocial thug, he turns into an almost kind, caring warrior who would do anything for his friends and, more importantly, his girlfriend. It's not sudden (though it is fast) and it's definite character development.

Cloud has an in depth history involving ShinRa, Zack, and Sephiroth. FFVIII's storyboard directors ran out of good ideas somewhere between the beginning of the game, and the raid on Dollet; they couldn't think of anything creative, so they decided to slap every single character into the very same orphanage and call it history.

This, I can't argue with. The orphanage plot twist just seems a little... haphazard. Like it was thrown in at the last minute. It's like someone thought "Hey, I know, they should all be linked before this! And that'll give them a reason to be together!" Not a very well done plot point, I'll admit.



Also, I can see us not agreeing. Shall we agree to disagree?

 

[Howl]

Dissagree we shall.
Except for the lame part about the orphanage. <3

And there's one more thing I dissagree on.
It wasn't Cloud who gave the black materia to Sephiroth.
The being who was in Cloud's presense at the Temple of the Ancients wasn't really Sephiroth, it was a manifestation of Jenova. Jenova's cells have the ability to control one another, and their ultimate objective is to work together. The Jenova in Cloud handed the black materia to it's manifestation.

 

[Aztec Triogal]

We really shouldn't argue about Cloud vs. Squall at all though. Both parties agree Cloud is awesome. Just one party things Squall blows while the other one doesn't, so debating Cloud's level of awesome is kinda moot. Also, it's kind of pointless to debate Tidus in relation to Cloud or Squall, since they're both completely different characters. My point was the Squall was a whiner. It doesn't really matter if Tidus was or not.

Again, the topic isn't about Rinoa but she was pretty slutty. She even hooked up with Seifer before she met Squall. How many times does she come on to him? Seriously, there are a lot of time when she hits on him like at the dance or in Ragnarok, where Squall does nothing. She comes from a long line of tramps... just look at Julia and Laguna (worst name ever). Which brings me to another point. I'm not saying Squall's homosexual, neccessarily. I've got no problem with gay people so I don't want to insult them with including Squall in their group... but yea... he might just be. Turning down uber-horny cute chick who is all over you all the time. Considering Squall obviously is overly antisocial and all around super-goth with no parents, no close friends (just a kinky instructor), a mean bully man that picks on him all the time, you think he'd want to get a little loving from the only thing that seems to be going his way... but he completely rejects her. A lot. Let's just say I'd wager him and Zell played drop the soap a couple times in the SeeD locker room.

 

[Howl]

We really shouldn't argue about Cloud vs. Squall at all though. Both parties agree Cloud is awesome. Just one party things Squall blows while the other one doesn't, so debating Cloud's level of awesome is kinda moot. Also, it's kind of pointless to debate Tidus in relation to Cloud or Squall, since they're both completely different characters. My point was the Squall was a whiner. It doesn't really matter if Tidus was or not.

Again, the topic isn't about Rinoa but she was pretty slutty. She even hooked up with Seifer before she met Squall. How many times does she come on to him? Seriously, there are a lot of time when she hits on him like at the dance or in Ragnarok, where Squall does nothing. She comes from a long line of tramps... just look at Julia and Laguna (worst name ever). Which brings me to another point. I'm not saying Squall's homosexual, neccessarily. I've got no problem with gay people so I don't want to insult them with including Squall in their group... but yea... he might just be. Turning down uber-horny cute chick who is all over you all the time. Considering Squall obviously is overly antisocial and all around super-goth with no parents, no close friends (just a kinky instructor), a mean bully man that picks on him all the time, you think he'd want to get a little loving from the only thing that seems to be going his way... but he completely rejects her. A lot. Let's just say I'd wager him and Zell played drop the soap a couple times in the SeeD locker room.

I think if you opened up a writing thread in the talents section, I would visit it daily. <3

 

[Axel_KH]

Dissagree we shall.
Except for the lame part about the orphanage. <3

And there's one more thing I dissagree on.
It wasn't Cloud who gave the black materia to Sephiroth.
The being who was in Cloud's presense at the Temple of the Ancients wasn't really Sephiroth, it was a manifestation of Jenova. Jenova's cells have the ability to control one another, and their ultimate objective is to work together. The Jenova in Cloud handed the black materia to it's manifestation.

True enough, but it does question Cloud's willpower. I do, however, take into account the fact that Cloud had just been told that he wasn't at Nibelheim at the Sephiroth Incident, so yeah.

I'm not saying Squall's homosexual, neccessarily. I've got no problem with gay people so I don't want to insult them with including Squall in their group... but yea... he might just be

Actually, there's speculation about the Japanese translation where Squall and Zell are an item. It's half-proven false, though, because of some of Squall's reactions to Zell. For example, in the D-District prison, Squall runs ahead of Selphie and Quistis to save Zell, but when Zell tries to hug him, he smacks Zell in the head with the gunblade. I don't know enough about the Japanese script though.

My point was the Squall was a whiner. It doesn't really matter if Tidus was or not.

Tidus had a whiney voice. And was a raging emo.
To be fair, though, Cloud and Squall were raging emos too.

 

[Howl]

Zidane wins. FTW. Only character with an upbeat outlook on life.
Only character without mental issues.
Only character who knows how to court a girl..

You're right...the others are raging emo.

 

[Aztec Triogal]

First off, don't ever dis Cloud... or you'll find your dick in a meat grinder. (Had to scroll up to see if you were a guy... would've lost some of the effect if you weren't) lol

Secondly, that's just freaking scary about the Squall/Zell thing. Squall strikes me as a pansy ... but... ick ... ahhhh i think i might be sick if they were actually an item. Well, just one more reason not to replay that game.

Gotta love Zidane. Not the best "heroic" icon... but definitely very pimp

 

[BustaMo]

HOW THE HELL IS TIDUS AN EMO!?!?

Name me one Emo guy who is a raging sports-aholic and is famed by everyone in his huge ass city...There aren't any. A sports star with Tidus' success and an emo are hypicritical comaprisons. You can't be both.

Also, when the hell does Tidus whine!??! Everyone makes it seem like it's throughout the game. It's when he's 7 or 8 freak'n years old. Damn. Give him some le-way. He was just a kid who couldn't stand his dad. I'd rather know the character and know he was passionate about something, than have a gothic antisocial, speachless semi-leader like Clay Aiken in FFVIII. Whoops, I meant Squall.

Sure Tidus' voice can be annoying when it hit's high pitches, but it shows his emotion perfectly at the current situation.

 

[Axel_KH]

HOW THE HELL IS TIDUS AN EMO!?!?

Name me one Emo guy who is a raging sports-aholic and is famed by everyone in his huge ass city...There aren't any. A sports star with Tidus' success and an emo are hypicritical comaprisons. You can't be both.

Also, when the hell does Tidus whine!??! Everyone makes it seem like it's throughout the game. It's when he's 7 or 8 freak'n years old. Damn. Give him some le-way. He was just a kid who couldn't stand his dad. I'd rather know the character and know he was passionate about something, than have a gothic antisocial, speachless semi-leader like Clay Aiken in FFVIII. Whoops, I meant Squall.

Sure Tidus' voice can be annoying when it hit's high pitches, but it shows his emotion perfectly at the current situation.

He hates his dad and tells everyone at every given opportunity. He'll stop at nothing to kill his dad, too. It spells emo to me.

He whines about Jecht a lot too. And let's not forget his breakdown at Home about Yuna. Sure, it was a breakdown, but it still came across as whiney-breakdown.

Tidus's voice makes me lose the will to live. =]

(I'm sorry for the brief, unexplained and general harshness of this post. I haven't slept. At all)

 

[Aztec Triogal]

God I wish I could delete posts. Busta! You cunt! Stop getting my topic off-topic! Ass! lol I see you're posting at 3AM... must've been a good date with Sara, buddy. HAHAHA You pounded it. I know it...

Anyhow, Squall is a bastard. Little red devils should cheese grade his ass over liquid maG-ma for all enternity while making fun of him for having to compensate for his very very little devil.

 

[Howl]

EEEEeeeeeeeeeeshh is this the work of smappers??
Please stick to the subject people, so this wonderful thread can stay open!

~♥Rhea♥~

 

[Rydia]

We really shouldn't argue about Cloud vs. Squall at all though. Both parties agree Cloud is awesome. Just one party things Squall blows while the other one doesn't, so debating Cloud's level of awesome is kinda moot. Also, it's kind of pointless to debate Tidus in relation to Cloud or Squall, since they're both completely different characters. My point was the Squall was a whiner. It doesn't really matter if Tidus was or not.

Again, the topic isn't about Rinoa but she was pretty slutty. She even hooked up with Seifer before she met Squall. How many times does she come on to him? Seriously, there are a lot of time when she hits on him like at the dance or in Ragnarok, where Squall does nothing. She comes from a long line of tramps... just look at Julia and Laguna (worst name ever). Which brings me to another point. I'm not saying Squall's homosexual, neccessarily. I've got no problem with gay people so I don't want to insult them with including Squall in their group... but yea... he might just be. Turning down uber-horny cute chick who is all over you all the time. Considering Squall obviously is overly antisocial and all around super-goth with no parents, no close friends (just a kinky instructor), a mean bully man that picks on him all the time, you think he'd want to get a little loving from the only thing that seems to be going his way... but he completely rejects her. A lot. Let's just say I'd wager him and Zell played drop the soap a couple times in the SeeD locker room.

Wait a minute, just because a woman has had more than one boyfriend in her life that makes her a slut? And also if a woman comes on to a man first she must be slutty? What are you like from the middle ages?

And honestly, what is wrong with a slutty woman? No one ever has problems if a man has more than one sexual partner. So why should it be so horrible if a woman has more than one?

 

[Amizon]

I don't really like the Squall rant. Squall was a great character for FFVIII and a difference was made in the FF series. So I'm defending him literally.

 

[liuleonheart]

i'd still like squall most

there's something in his character that i'd liked most more than the other leading characters,, i just cant figured what?

 

[Howl]

I have something to contribute to the Squall rant. LOL.
I've seen a thread somewhere around here with a poll on it where you can choose which character you are "most like".
I'm pretty sure that 80% of the people here indicate that they have the exact same personality as Squall.

Nu. Just...nuuu.
Everything that AT says is totally legit as far as I'm concerned...a little overexaggerated, but...legit. lol.

 

[Unforgiven]

Alright guys, enough with the comments about 'Rinoa being a slut'
and Squall being a 'walking talking pussy'. There are kids that are
on this forum, I don't mind cursing. But its getting way out of hand.
I don't care if Rhea doesn't mind all this bull that's going on atm.
Just stop cursing so wildly, its starting to become offensive. I do
not want to hand out warnings. Got it? Another thing, people stay
on topic. Or i'll lock this thread myself and it won't open back up.
My first and final warning to you all.

On topic, I actually like Squall. His personality does annoy me
sometimes but that isn't always a reason to hate a character.
There is only one character I hated in FFVIII, and that was
Selphie. She was way too happy and cheerful, even when
things were grim. Miss Sunshine of the sparkily fairy land...
I'm done.

 

[Aztec Triogal]

Alright guys, enough with the comments about 'Rinoa being a slut' and Squall being a 'walking talking pussy'. There are kids that are on this forum, I don't mind cursing. But its getting way out of hand. Just stop cursing so wildly, its starting to become offensive.

Fair enough. I forget that there are kids on these sites but you're right. There are other ways to express the same opinion.

On topic, I actually like Squall. His personality does annoy me sometimes but that isn't always a reason to hate a character.

Yea, but that's the point. I liked Tidus but the character could be a bit annoying at times. He's a strong character with a good intentions but sometimes you wonder if he got put in the "special classes" in school. Squall goes a step farther. He's not just annoying, he's incompetent. He's dumb, childish, paranoid, and can't grow up to save his life. Now I will admit that all FF characters develop throughout the game and Squall is no acception, but even at the end he isn't "in charge". He still whines and panics. It doesn't matter if he can do a "badass looking overdrive". He's still a wimp.

I guess my biggest problem with Squall is from the standpoint of the average gamer. He wasn't a well developed character. It's not just that I didn't like the personality they gave him. I don't think they gave him much of any. He'd chicken out and people would have to coerce him into leading... but that doesn't really represent a personality. It just means that the writers couldn't really think of anything so they make him "mopey" and in "angst" most of the game, simply because they couldn't think of a better personality to give him. He's not a serious rebelious badass. He's not every a "goth", as you would think of one. He's just lackluster. It's like he completely doesn't exist. You could remove him from the game and replace him with that "dry eyes" guy and you'd still have the same game.