Oh quite true. Sephiroth was a pretty damn powerful dude, and very ominous. Just...not as smart as kuja <.<
Setting the Record Straight
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Oh quite true. Sephiroth was a pretty damn powerful dude, and very ominous. Just...not as smart as kuja <.<
Well, VR, What you can see is flames going up, so it could be the crystal trees after they hit the surface of the planet. I personally don't think he managed to destroy the planet to bits, and that he destroyed the surface, but as I have already said, wiping all life from a planet and making uninhabitable is as good as making it explode to bits.
Yeah, and I'd like to point out that Kuja nearly commited triple genocide and succeeded in destroying a world/planet. And besides, it was Kuja's ultimate destiny to die; there was no way he could have helped it.
Yeah, and I'd like to point out that Kuja nearly commited triple genocide and succeeded in destroying a world/planet. And besides, it was Kuja's ultimate destiny to die; there was no way he could have helped it.
Kuja vs. Sephiroth - the confrontation of the silver-haired Playstation sensation...s. Kuja, the poetic yet nearly unknown antagonist of Final Fantasy IX against Sephiroth, the universally-known and giant sword-wielding villain of Final Fantasy VII. There have been two threads like this in the past on this forum but both lacked a nice thorough evaluation of each character. I will provide this as the start for this topic.
SEPHIROTH
Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.
Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?
Short time later...
Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.
From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.
Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.
So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.
But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...
Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.
Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.
Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?
Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!
So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.
But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.
Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.
Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.
KUJA
Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.
Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...
And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.
That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.
Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!
His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.
Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!
Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!
Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.
Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!
He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.
Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?
So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...
Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?
Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!
Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World
Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!
To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.
He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.
Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.
Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.
Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.
conclusion
Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.
SEPHIROTH
Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.
Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?
Short time later...
Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.
From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.
Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.
So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.
But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...
Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.
Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.
Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?
Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!
So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.
But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.
Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.
Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.
KUJA
Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.
Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...
And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.
That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.
Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!
His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.
Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!
Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!
Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.
Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!
He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.
Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?
So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...
Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?
Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!
Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World
Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!
To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.
He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.
Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.
Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.
Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.
conclusion
Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.
Right, and no one cared. Rufus was glad he died, and he became the next president.
When Queen Brahne died, Garnet was there comforting her adoptive mother. Garent said her mother was a loving, well-liked queen.
The death of Queen Brahne was a bigger impact than the death of President Shinra.
Although I'm a fan girl of Sephiroth, I do admit Kuja was a lot more destructive than Sephiroth. Kuja destroyed large kingdoms and nearly killed off Freya's race. Kuja was very manipulative. Kuja was evil from the start. Sephiroth was a hero but he went crazy.
Cactuar
Kekeke
Sephiroth was smart. He was the one who caused Geostigma and made everyone ill in order for his next plan to succeed. Unfortunately, Cloud just kicked his ass. *Fan girl squeal*
^^^ ^^^
No, those clowns who created this film are smart, as they tried to cash in on the gormless fans, FFVII was my favourite FF, but they could have made this film a lot better......AC that is
Just to sum up, IMO Kuja was a real villain, in every sense of the word, he was clever, and immensly powerfull, as for Sephiroth, he was just a baddie, powerfull also and kerazyyyy, he was, a lot more simple than Kuja though....as a character....mad, alien, experiment, man, thing....whatever he was, and he was a mommy's boy also....
Right, I'm afraid I'm not reading through 70-odd replies just to get my two-cents in here.
I'd like to start by saying that how you convey what each villain did plays a big part in showing one up against the other.
My take on this:
1. If Final Fantasy VII was remade tomorrow, Sephiroth would win that fight. What was available to them at that point doesn't really play a part on which character is a better villain.
2. [I'm just going to group his accomplishments together] He brutally murdered countless people, he destroyed Nibelheim, he lives as part of Jenova (given his genetic engineering), he created super-powered clones of himself (Bizzaro and Seraph), he manipulated the hero of the game into handing over the Black Materia, he survived being plunged into the Lifestream.
3. Reading forward to your out-take on Kuja, you apparently don't think Sephiroth went through any changes at all. We saw the change in Sephiroth very early on in the game, when he goes from being a top-ranking SOLDIER, practically as Zack's mentor, to a neurotic character bent on following through with the Jenova Reunion theorised by Hojo.
2. I'll simplify this like you did Sephiroth: He talks to a Queen, makes her loopy, she levels some towns and then she dies. See? It's all about your tone, too.
3. Sephiroth wanted to join WITH the existence of the Planet - and nearly succeeded.
4. While this is true, you might say Garland is more powerful than Kuja, because Garland created Kuja. Sephiroth wasn't created by Jenova or Hojo - he was enhanced by Jenova.
I'd like to start by saying that how you convey what each villain did plays a big part in showing one up against the other.
My take on this:
1. If Final Fantasy VII was remade tomorrow, Sephiroth would win that fight. What was available to them at that point doesn't really play a part on which character is a better villain.
2. [I'm just going to group his accomplishments together] He brutally murdered countless people, he destroyed Nibelheim, he lives as part of Jenova (given his genetic engineering), he created super-powered clones of himself (Bizzaro and Seraph), he manipulated the hero of the game into handing over the Black Materia, he survived being plunged into the Lifestream.
3. Reading forward to your out-take on Kuja, you apparently don't think Sephiroth went through any changes at all. We saw the change in Sephiroth very early on in the game, when he goes from being a top-ranking SOLDIER, practically as Zack's mentor, to a neurotic character bent on following through with the Jenova Reunion theorised by Hojo.
1. Sephiroth also went through changes in the game. We learn all about Sephiroth's past - to the point where it overlaps into another game, essentially (Dirge of Cerberus).
2. I'll simplify this like you did Sephiroth: He talks to a Queen, makes her loopy, she levels some towns and then she dies. See? It's all about your tone, too.
3. Sephiroth wanted to join WITH the existence of the Planet - and nearly succeeded.
4. While this is true, you might say Garland is more powerful than Kuja, because Garland created Kuja. Sephiroth wasn't created by Jenova or Hojo - he was enhanced by Jenova.
Jumping Jesus on a pogostick, this topic is a fucking mess. Boys, girls, and children of all ages... calm down already. I'll watch this thread and the people who were flaming a little more closely from now on but I'm going to let this particular incident slide... only because I have no clue which way is up there's so much shit in here. Thank you Vengeful for reporting that post. I only hope that in the future you'll do it sooner so this kind of crap can be prevented. I really like seeing reports in my inbox so don't be afraid, even for the small stuff. But yikes, let's try to avoid this stuff in the future...
Thanks a bunch for replying so soon, Aztec. Sorry i didnt report it sooner, i was kinda hoping we could shut him up ourselves if we provided him with enough hard evidence...apparently trolls dont take kindly to evidence, they just get worse.
lol It's alright. I'm a fan of heated debates myself but there's a fairly thin line between debating an opinion and name calling and whatnot. At any rate, directed at no one in particular, just try to keep it civil from now on whatever your disagreements are.
Same here, i'm fine with debates so long as people can keep from name calling and have good arguments. Dont like Kuja and think Sephi is better? That's fine with me, just give me some stuff from the game to back it up, rather than an untranslated guide made four years after the game xD
You all have been verbally warned. The next person who posts about the issue of who trolled who rather than which villain is superior gets a cookie... wait no... an infraction. Yea, that's it. And it'll be big and mean and stink of fish... now be nice and play right or the topic gets locked.
Post on topic.
Post on topic.
Mmm, fish cookie.
So anyway...um...anyone else here care to share their views on who's better? Maybe you, Aztec?
So anyway...um...anyone else here care to share their views on who's better? Maybe you, Aztec?
Actually, I have to say that these are probably my two favorite villains, other than X-Death. Both Sephiroth and Kuja were heavily involved in the plot from the very beginning. Both characters came in with a mysterious background but clearcut ties to a main protagonist. You can argue whose stronger all day but I care more about how they acted than what they did. They were both very pissed off guys with ambitions to end many lives and create a lot of destruction. Although they both had very different ways about going about it, they both were strong, manipulative, and evil to the core. Sephiroth edges slightly ahead in my mind, however, just because I'm a bigger fan of Final Fantasy VII than I am of any other game... but Kuja runs a close second.
I like Sephiroth, but i like Kuja better ^^ Not sure about that manipulation though...
Sephi manipulated Cloud directly, not just his mind but actually controlling his body
Kuja manipulated Queen Brahne's mind and turned her into a greedy warmonger. I think that's a little more devious.
Personally, what i'm most interested in about Sephi is what he was like before he went renegade. And I've not played V so i dont know what to say about Exdeath. I have the game, but i've heard alot of mixed things about it so i havent played it yet.
Sephi manipulated Cloud directly, not just his mind but actually controlling his body
Kuja manipulated Queen Brahne's mind and turned her into a greedy warmonger. I think that's a little more devious.
Personally, what i'm most interested in about Sephi is what he was like before he went renegade. And I've not played V so i dont know what to say about Exdeath. I have the game, but i've heard alot of mixed things about it so i havent played it yet.
Oh yea, I'd have to agree. The type of manipulation that Sephiroth had was not based on a cunning personality, as was Kuja's. It was simply "the will of Jenova". Sephiroth controlled many clones who never questioned a single order he gave. Since he never actually moved from the Northern Cave the entire game, it'd be hard to argue that he didn't manipulate people or events with those "clones".
Kuja on the other hand only really manipulated Queen Brahne but he did so without any tricks. He took a sweet mother and was able to twist her mind because of the deaths of her husband and her actual daughter, the real Princess Garnet. He fed her lies and promises and that's what corrupted her. His manipulation was much more real.
Honestly though, throughout the game it made him look like he only had others do his bidding. In reality, Sephiroth only had others do things for him while he stayed frozen in a cave... but he always looked like a very hands-on villain because you always saw "clones" shaped like him. You always thought "wow, he must be really powerful because he's just one man against the world". Similarly, you think Kuja may be weak and frail because he's only displayed as having others do his bidding. He corrupted the queen, he sent you to Oeilvert, and he tried manipulating Garland. It always seemed like he never fought his own battles... and then he blew up Terra. lol Then you sat back in your chair and shat your pants as you watched the guy you thought was a little weakling who liked quoting poetry and dressing up in women's clothing destroy an entire planet through massive fireballs he conjured at his fingertips.
Kuja on the other hand only really manipulated Queen Brahne but he did so without any tricks. He took a sweet mother and was able to twist her mind because of the deaths of her husband and her actual daughter, the real Princess Garnet. He fed her lies and promises and that's what corrupted her. His manipulation was much more real.
Honestly though, throughout the game it made him look like he only had others do his bidding. In reality, Sephiroth only had others do things for him while he stayed frozen in a cave... but he always looked like a very hands-on villain because you always saw "clones" shaped like him. You always thought "wow, he must be really powerful because he's just one man against the world". Similarly, you think Kuja may be weak and frail because he's only displayed as having others do his bidding. He corrupted the queen, he sent you to Oeilvert, and he tried manipulating Garland. It always seemed like he never fought his own battles... and then he blew up Terra. lol Then you sat back in your chair and shat your pants as you watched the guy you thought was a little weakling who liked quoting poetry and dressing up in women's clothing destroy an entire planet through massive fireballs he conjured at his fingertips.
Celestial
I beg to dream and differ.
Kuja may not be gay, but he sure looks gay (who likes a villian that looks like that?). I just saw him for the first time. Sephiroth is most definitely a cooler character.
Kuja's appearance fits his personality. He's unbelievably narcissistic. He loves himself to death, literally. In his mind, others should be allowed to see his body. What better way to do that than to where a thong? XD When he knew he was going to die, he at least partially thought that the world should not exist without him, so he looked to destroy the existence of all existence.
Sephiroth's appearance looks a bit typical for a villain. Black leather, big sword, etc. Kuja doesn't need a weapon to pwn things.
I can say though, that we never truly see the extent of either villains power. How powerful was Kuja before Trance? Could Kuja have had other devistating powers at his disposal during Trance?
In AC, all Sephiroth did was fight with Cloud and make some greeny cloud thingy. You never saw his true power. The power everyone was afraid of. Everyone was afraid of Kuja's power too, but we never truly got to see it.
Sephiroth's appearance looks a bit typical for a villain. Black leather, big sword, etc. Kuja doesn't need a weapon to pwn things.
I can say though, that we never truly see the extent of either villains power. How powerful was Kuja before Trance? Could Kuja have had other devistating powers at his disposal during Trance?
In AC, all Sephiroth did was fight with Cloud and make some greeny cloud thingy. You never saw his true power. The power everyone was afraid of. Everyone was afraid of Kuja's power too, but we never truly got to see it.
It's true that Kuja had people do his work for him for much of the game, Aztec. However, that kind of fits his personality. As Grand_Lethal said, he's a huge narcissist, so he probably didnt want to dirty himself when he could let others do the dirty stuff for him.
And Celestial, have you ever seen Kefka? He's a damned clown. I like Kefka but i hate clowns, i much prefer Kuja. Besides, he's a narcissist like Grand_Lethal said. He had a very toned, somewhat effeminate figure, and being so in love with himself it makes perfect sense for him to show it off. So if he can say something like "I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!" then i'm sure he feels it's only fair that if he sees his body others should too.
Besides Celestial, we're trying to steer away from shallow reasons for disliking the villians in this thread, i've had my fill of people saying "omgz, kuja l00ks so g4y, sephi pwns him!1!!!1" Try playing IX sometime and you'll see how Kuja is a damn good villian.
*EDIT*
You ninja'd me Adamant. And um...yay for old record players? I assume by this picture not only are you making a pun on the title but you're insinuating that everyone in here sounds like a broken record?
And Celestial, have you ever seen Kefka? He's a damned clown. I like Kefka but i hate clowns, i much prefer Kuja. Besides, he's a narcissist like Grand_Lethal said. He had a very toned, somewhat effeminate figure, and being so in love with himself it makes perfect sense for him to show it off. So if he can say something like "I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!" then i'm sure he feels it's only fair that if he sees his body others should too.
Besides Celestial, we're trying to steer away from shallow reasons for disliking the villians in this thread, i've had my fill of people saying "omgz, kuja l00ks so g4y, sephi pwns him!1!!!1" Try playing IX sometime and you'll see how Kuja is a damn good villian.
*EDIT*
You ninja'd me Adamant. And um...yay for old record players? I assume by this picture not only are you making a pun on the title but you're insinuating that everyone in here sounds like a broken record?
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Kefka was more funny than villainous, IMO. The only time I ever hated him was when he poisoned the water at Doma Castle. That's it. Other than that I just didn't care for the villain at all. He was just some powerless normal guy with a big ego. There's enough of those already.